Why Windows 8 Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant

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As "controversial" as the removal of the start menu in Windows 8 has been, this editorial will no doubt spark a debate.

For the record, I don't care if you skip the update -- hell, I might pass on it too -- nor do I care if it's the most failtastic operating system in Windows' 26-year history. However, I believe your opinion should be formed by facts, not irrational rhetoric parroted online by so-called power users and companies that want to sell you third-party programs. The truth is, functionally speaking, Metro is basically identical to the Start menu.
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nOrVow said:
Oh lord... here we go again. :D
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Every time someone says that, it reminds me of the Tossers:

Oh and here we go again
A broken bottle in my hand
And our taxed joints crack and bend
From our backs we rise and stand
Oh and here we go again
Our vision wincing towards the sun
Delerium tremens shake and stand
And we decide this isn't fun
Oh and here we go again
On the sharp edge of a knife
Singing not but only pain
But for some semblance of a life
That they cannot take or tax
For it's all that we can do
The nucleus of all my friends
And I lift my glass to you
Oh and here we go again
 
The reason most people will skip on Windows 8 isn't because of the ugly GUI, or lack of options or joke application store. Its because without the Metro store junk, there isn't much difference. It's a lazy service pack by lazy idealess developers for full retail price. :p
 
DeathPrincess said:
The reason most people will skip on Windows 8 isn't because of the ugly GUI, or lack of options or joke application store. Its because without the Metro store junk, there isn't much difference. It's a lazy service pack by lazy idealess developers for full retail price. :p
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Have you used it, your highness? There's a bunch of differences under the hood, but yes the big noticeable difference is the UI. But, look into the other differences between 7 & 8.

What'd you say about Vista to 7? Not a lot changed there, really....
 
I don't think anyone is arguing that the Start Screen isn't more or less functionally identical to the Start Menu. There is something to be said about form, however.
 
Personally, I'm a neatnik and I love to arrange my stuff into 5-6 folders instead of the 80 million Windows loves to create by default. With Metro, that doesn't really work. I have my 50 million icons all over the place instead of a few neat contextual menus. I'm sure there's some way to do it or work-around, but it's quite the adjustment after doing things for a decade.
IMO, Metro certainly can and does work, but it's less efficient.
This is one of those situations where I wish MS copied Apple again instead of Google.
 
pelo said:
Fixt.
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Yes because, clicking the corner or hitting the Windows key and then either typing or scrolling in Windows 8 so radically different with a keyboards and mice in Windows 8 it's completely the same in Windows 7, functionally speaking.
 
There is that old saying that money can't buy you happyness and we all know thats bullshit.
Also you can't judge a book by its cover.. Sure you can and we do all the time, Do you see ugly pop stars, (lots of them can't sing worth shit and they are hot as hell) When you buy a car do you look at the appearance first or the engine?

Metro is the UI everyone sees first and it will be a turn off to a lot of people because they will hate the uglyness of it.
 
Domingo said:
Personally, I'm a neatnik and I love to arrange my stuff into 5-6 folders instead of the 80 million Windows loves to create by default. With Metro, that doesn't really work. I have my 50 million icons all over the place instead of a few neat contextual menus.
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Have you tried unpinning the icons you don't need and using application groups?
 
Just about every last complaint about Windows 8 is blown out of proportion.
 
Waiting for people to post "Windows XP 64-bit forevaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!1!!1!!!eleven!!!!!" in support of their anti-8 arguments.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Have you used it, your highness? There's a bunch of differences under the hood, but yes the big noticeable difference is the UI. But, look into the other differences between 7 & 8.

What'd you say about Vista to 7? Not a lot changed there, really....
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Yes! All 3 flavours. :( Theres some copy improvements, The task manager is different (still no GPU usage, or temperatures, or etc. etc. and it's aglgakging ugly! :D), and theres device setting syncing whatever. But this isn't really stuff that normal people will use a great deal or at all. People copy small files over USB 2.0, capped at 35mb/s not TBs of data, the total added benefit to 90% of computer users will be around 0. So they probably wouldn't even notice. People don't really use the task manager either. It's all minor stuff that probably only more "advanced" users would notice, and for them it has a load of stuff to annoy them and crappy UI.

The biig thing from Vista to 7 for me was aero snap and homegroup. 8 doesn't really have anything of that level at all. Both are extremely useful. It's all slight features, and in total pretty meh, and then it has lots of annoyances to sour the whole package. Then the cost is full retail...:confused: It doesn't even have a proper DX version like Vista, and I can't see any developers using 11.1

It still seems like they wanted to push the crappy metro store on people, so lumped it onto a half assed service pack level release. Should have just added it to a Windows 7 tablet edition and just released that. Annoying people off with this floppy package isn't going to get huge support for the metro store they are trying to push. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
Yes because, clicking the corner or hitting the Windows key and then either typing or scrolling in Windows 8 so radically different with a keyboards and mice in Windows 8 it's completely the same in Windows 7, functionally speaking.
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What about the fact that it takes up my entire screen? Is that because Microsoft is trying to be nice and decrease the strain on my eyes or because it's a tablet-first OS? (and by tablet first OS I mean Metro and not the desktop OS that's bolted onto it)

heatlesssun, here you go

beat_dead_horse2.jpg


It's not about the functionality that's retained (some of it is gone, in fact), but the ease of use that's made harder with Metro than with the start menu. Just because you can do the same thing but it takes longer to get it done doesn't mean it's the same.
 
pelo said:
What about the fact that it takes up my entire screen? Is that because Microsoft is trying to be nice and decrease the strain on my eyes or because it's a tablet-first OS? (and by tablet first OS I mean Metro and not the desktop OS that's bolted onto it)
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It's based on user research regarding the psychology of efficiency and usability. Nothing to do with being tablet-first.
 
pelo said:
What about the fact that it takes up my entire screen? Is that because Microsoft is trying to be nice and decrease the strain on my eyes or because it's a tablet-first OS? (and by tablet first OS I mean Metro and not the desktop OS that's bolted onto it)

heatlesssun, here you go

beat_dead_horse2.jpg


It's not about the functionality that's retained (some of it is gone, in fact), but the ease of use that's made harder with Metro than with the start menu. Just because you can do the same thing but it takes longer to get it done doesn't mean it's the same.
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Windows 7 Start menu - 10-15 items visible on search
Windows 8 Start Screen 30-60 items visible on search

When someone can come up with an argument for why using more space to find an item is a bad thing, then I will debate you. Until then, the "its full screen!" argument has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard in my life.

And good lord, how often are you launching apps that it would actually bother you?
 
Tawnos said:
It's based on user research regarding the psychology of efficiency and usability. Nothing to do with being tablet-first.
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How much moonshine did that cost? Did the slide to do things and hidden floating corner elements also prove worthwhile under this same "research" done by "professionals"? Microsoft got screwed. :p
 
dagamer34 said:
Windows 7 Start menu - 10-15 items visible on search
Windows 8 Start Screen 30-60 items visible on search

When someone can come up with an argument for why using more space to find an item is a bad thing, then I will debate you. Until then, the "its full screen!" argument has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard in my life.

And good lord, how often are you launching apps that it would actually bother you?
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Sideways scrolling of Metro good enough?

Or how about my favorite...

Swipe to unlock and enter Metro!! Err, I mean Windows!!
 
Put it this way, if I wanted my programs in front of me in an iOS/Android tile-style, I would have used a plugin for that.

The majority of people aren't mad about the change, they're mad about the lack of backward functionality. Fine, add the new thing. But let me drop back to the 7-style Start Menu if I wish.
 
DeathPrincess said:
How much moonshine did that cost? Did the slide to do things and hidden floating corner elements also prove worthwhile under this same "research" done by "professionals"? Microsoft got screwed. :p
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Unless you're willing to show your professional credentials that makes you a capable judge, I will just assume you're less qualified than those who have done the research.

User learning curves are weird things. The same popup bubble which is nice the first time is annoying the hundredth. When Windows 95 came out, it required text to scroll along the bottom and point to the start button to say "click here to start". Can you imagine if that was dragged through every subsequent version? However, that's what you propose: a hint is needed every time for every user.

Of course, you're a genius and know this stuff waaay better than all the people who spend their lives studying it. I bow before your wisdom and feel humbled in your presence. Thanks for gracing us, here, with it, for we would be lost without your opinions.
 
What's the easiest way to shutdown windows 8?

What I've been doing is windows+c to open the "charms" menu, then clicking settings, then power, then shutdown. Is there a more efficient way?
 
dagamer34 said:
Windows 7 Start menu - 10-15 items visible on search
Windows 8 Start Screen 30-60 items visible on search

When someone can come up with an argument for why using more space to find an item is a bad thing, then I will debate you. Until then, the "its full screen!" argument has got to be the silliest thing I have ever heard in my life.

And good lord, how often are you launching apps that it would actually bother you?
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I don't get it either. To me it's just a big start menu. I don't care AT ALL if the start menu is a little bigger. What, am I reading something in the other half of the window while I'm simultaneously navigating the start menu? Pffft.

I barely use the thing any more - most of the time I just click start and type "Power control" or "Civ" or the like. I only use it when navigating for a program I can't remember the name of - and in that instance, I welcome the larger start menu with icons. In a way, it kind of hearkens back to the way that WinXP would cascade categories across...

How is it really that much different than this:

3.JPG


My issues with Windows 8 include the
 
Oops...left off from my post above.

My issues with Windows 8 are more about Metro and desktop app coexistence and being able to put them where you want...and I'm not a huge fan of all of the hot corners and such (from what I'm seeing).
 
pelo said:
It's not about the functionality that's retained (some of it is gone, in fact), but the ease of use that's made harder with Metro than with the start menu. Just because you can do the same thing but it takes longer to get it done doesn't mean it's the same.
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What functionality is gone? If it's not in the Start Screen it's probably in the File Explorer or Power Menu. For instance, Recent and Recent places is still there in the File Explorer.
 
It's amazing how so many people that swear up and down that they will never use Win8 are always found in Win8 threads.
 
I just love when editorials and articles that come out on the absolute pro Windows 8 side with the argument, "Most power users haven't even tried Windows 8, they just know what isn't going to be in there without bothering to use it."


Okay buddy. Who do you think are the ones Beta testing Windows 8 since before it was even publicly available. With VM's it's a 10 minute process to get up and running and not having to worry about constantly switching between two operating systems at boot. Just a complete asinine argument to even make.
 
-Sn1PeR- said:
What's the easiest way to shutdown windows 8?

What I've been doing is windows+c to open the "charms" menu, then clicking settings, then power, then shutdown. Is there a more efficient way?
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Alt+F4 while on the desktop.
 
Teenk9 said:
It's amazing how so many people that swear up and down that they will never use Win8 are always found in Win8 threads.
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Can't pass up an opportunity to poke fun at OS Dinks...now can we. Personally, I'm waiting for the Vista heroes to chime in.

Where's my popcorn.

Then again, I think I'm on "probation" so I'm gonna lay low.
 
Now we can take that same logic and apply it to Linux. I mean honestly, how functionally different is it from any version of Windows? As an end user, Ubuntu and Windows 8 are going to give you the same experience. The only difference is that Windows 8 has access to a plethora of applications, while Ubuntu does not. Also, you won't need to install anti virus software on Ubuntu.

Then again it's all about what you do. If you just browse the web, Ubuntu is your best choice. If you use applications like Photoshop or MS Office, then you have to use Windows. If you're a gamer, then Windows would make the most sense.

The UI in Windows 8 is functional, but for who? Probably the people who just browse the web. Then again, you still need anti virus software. Gamers and power users will stick with Windows 7.
 
Liger88 said:
Okay buddy. Who do you think are the ones Beta testing Windows 8 since before it was even publicly available. With VM's it's a 10 minute process to get up and running and not having to worry about constantly switching between two operating systems at boot. Just a complete asinine argument to even make.
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How many people that bash Windows 8 routinely have actually used it routinely for an extended period of time? It's hard to see the vehement haters actually having use it extensively.
 
Tawnos said:
Unless you're willing to show your professional credentials that makes you a capable judge, I will just assume you're less qualified than those who have done the research.

User learning curves are weird things. The same popup bubble which is nice the first time is annoying the hundredth. When Windows 95 came out, it required text to scroll along the bottom and point to the start button to say "click here to start". Can you imagine if that was dragged through every subsequent version? However, that's what you propose: a hint is needed every time for every user.

Of course, you're a genius and know this stuff waaay better than all the people who spend their lives studying it. I bow before your wisdom and feel humbled in your presence. Thanks for gracing us, here, with it, for we would be lost without your opinions.
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The fact that a "professional" who spends his "life" doing this can put forward a theory that common sense says is a load of junk doesn't really help the theory this research was done by intelligent knowledgeable people. Or done at all.

I didn't suggest anything, you did. So why do you think this popup is needed? Surely it's flawless perfect usability, researched by professionals with doctorates from the esteemed awesomecollege.com means that no such beginner level UI failing could possibly have occurred? Or that Microsoft could have just ignored reems of negative user feedback and carried on down the same path because the users are just "negative complainey morons". Who are going to be possibly paying for all of this. Why do you think 95 did that?
 
The truth is, functionally speaking, a go kart is basically identical to a car. But I won't be driving the go kart to work everyday.
 
Ashbringer said:
The UI in Windows 8 is functional, but for who? Probably the people who just browse the web. Then again, you still need anti virus software. Gamers and power users will stick with Windows 7.
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I use Windows 8 for much more than web browsing and there's nothing in Windows 7 on the desktop with a keyboard and mouse that I do constantly that I can't do as well with Windows 8. AV is part of Windows 8, no need to install anything and it auto updates through Windows Update, there's nothing that anyone will need to really touch other than of course deal with AV warnings. Of course Windows is the biggest malware target on the planet so Linux will always will that battle.
 
Holy shit, I couldn't believe it till I read it

I think we literally found Jim Sterling's long lost brother, but he reviews tech news instead!
 
DeathPrincess said:
The fact that a "professional" who spends his "life" doing this can put forward a theory that common sense says is a load of junk doesn't really help the theory this research was done by intelligent knowledgeable people. Or done at all.
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You could just as easily say that common sense says no matter what some people will reject the research of anyone if it embodies enough or certain kinds of change.
 
Teenk9 said:
It's amazing how so many people that swear up and down that they will never use Win8 are always found in Win8 threads.
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Cause I've used windows 8, and will never use it unless I am -FORCED- too like say its the only version that comes with DX 11.1, but fuck me almighty us UI is awful

Its designed to sell tablets and smart phones, that's it, and that's why they refuse to give you back the start menu, cause this is a giant marketing push to sell me shit I don't want.
 
ShamisOMally said:
Its designed to sell tablets and smart phones, that's it, and that's why they refuse to give you back the start menu, cause this is a giant marketing push to sell me shit I don't want.
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Well sure, Windows 8's focus is on mobile. The traditional PC market isn't growing, plenty of people, probably many that don't like Windows 8, wouldn't have bought it anyway if all it was desktop keyboard and mouse only OS. Windows 7 is just fine a lot are saying and I don't think that there's much that Microsoft could do to convince a stagnant market to go by a PC that's pretty much just like the one they already have.

Yes, Windows 8 is trying to appease a growing market while retaining the desktop.
 
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