The Official "I'm not buying Mass Effect or Spore" Thread

Like the title says, I will not be paying for Mass Effect or Spore due to their outlandish copy protection created by SecuROM. If you don't know what I am talking about, check here for the article.

For those of you who do not like to read, the copy protection makes Bioshock look like child's play. This new copy protection makes you sync your game, online, every 10 days. If 10 days goes by and you do not "check in" so to speak, your game dies. They try and make themselves look good by saying but, but, but, you don't need your DVD to play. Who cares if you don't need the DVD to play, the game automatically connects to the servers to revalidate. I for one will not stand for this, and officially say, "FUCK YOU" to Bioware.

Anyone else feel the same?

There's also an eight page thread on Bioware's forums complaining about it located here.

Well that's fucking lame.

If customers do not come online after ten days, the game will cease to function. "After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run," added French.

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Kinda vague. What does a "re-check" require? Why put in this ridiculous 10 day re-sync bullshit if they're going to conveniently allow users to "re-check" if they've past the 10 days?

Wonder if this is really BioWare/Maxis' doing. BioWare was acquired by EA and Spore is being published by EA, correct? ...no I'm not looking for more reasons to hate EA..

Nope, I plan on getting Mass Effect and Spore.

Master_Pain said:

Like the title says, I will not be paying for

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Implying you will be pirating?

Will be hacked within a week of release, if not before release, and will only hurt those of us that pay up. Figures.

Worst part is, there is /no/ multiplayer in Mass Effect, right? So the pirates will lose nothing. Spore they'll lose the ability to sync up their universe with others (or whatever -- I don't know much about the game) but that seems kind of minor....

Once again the good guys get screwed.

I'm an average user , this method of anti-piracy doesn't bother me at all. Why are so many people complaining, I just do not understand, this is what happens when millions of PC users download games off torrents and pretend they aren't pirating in a forum. Seriously, this is only happening to the PC users because the trend hasn't changed much, if any. I'm still getting Mass Effect and Spore, primarily to support PC gaming by PAYING.

To the people not liking this anti-piracy protection, hell, I'm sure you're going to download it anyways.

We will see. It's not multiplayer, so i might not like it. As far as piracy ..... people say console games are not being pirated as much as PC, i tend to disagree. China making clone Wii's, PS3's; to the market street's in vietnam, thailand, ect. You can find all sorts of pirated games that run fine on a console.

Only reason i know about the street market's, is my friend's dad in high school, would go to vietnam to find engineers. Sounds weird, i know. This is when outsourcing was first starting. They would rather bring a foreigner here to work, then start a firm in Vietnam.

w1ngzer0 said:

We will see. It's not multiplayer, so i might not like it. As far as piracy ..... people say console games are not being pirated as much as PC, i tend to disagree. China making clone Wii's, PS3's; to the market street's in vietnam, thailand, ect. You can find all sorts of pirated games that run fine on a console.

Only reason i know about the street market's is my friend's dad in high school would go to vietnam to find engineers. Sounds weird, i know. This is when outsourcing was first starting. They would rather bring a foreigner here to work, then start a firm in Vietnam.

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I do not think for one second that Console piracy doesn't exist, but there is more PHYSICAL EFFORT involved in console piracy, having to go to china town to buy the mod chips or having to get the pirated cd hard copies, whatever. The fact is, PC piracy is as easy as downloading music off Limewire and it turning out to be a virus. It's that simple.

Care to explain? Sure, all you have to do is go to utorrent.com or whatever their website is, download their client, hop your little mouse over to the address bar and go to whatever torrent site there is, type out your game wishlist and download / wait.

That seems alot easier than console pirating, that's for damn sure. Not to mention, people think that it isn't illegal, because they aren't physically doing anything wrong, besides sitting infront of a computer downloading pc games, morals aren't as heavily effected, it's a "justifiable" action because, "hell I already pay for the internet, that means everything provided by the internet, with my actions, comes fully paid with my internet's monthly bill".

RangerSVT said:

I do not think for one second that Console piracy doesn't exist, but there is more PHYSICAL EFFORT involved in console piracy, having to go to china town to buy the mod chips or having to get the pirated cd hard copies, whatever. The fact is, PC piracy is as easy as downloading music off Limewire and it turning out to be a virus. It's that simple.

Care to explain? Sure, all you have to do is go to utorrent.com or whatever their website is, download their client, hop your little mouse over to the address bar and go to whatever torrent site there is, type out your game wishlist and download / wait.

That seems alot easier than console pirating, that's for damn sure. Not to mention, people think that it isn't illegal, because they aren't physically doing anything wrong, besides sitting infront of a computer downloading pc games, morals aren't as heavily effected, it's a "justifiable" action because, "hell I already pay for the internet, that means everything provided by the internet, with my actions, comes fully paid with my internet's monthly bill".

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Atleast you seem to know what bittorrent programs are and the name of it.. hmmm .

But seriously, who doesnt have their computer hooked up to the net these days? Unless you're on dial up, other than that most users should be on cable / dsl by now.

RangerSVT said:

That seems alot easier than console pirating, that's for damn sure. Not to mention, people think that it isn't illegal, because they aren't physically doing anything wrong, besides sitting infront of a computer downloading pc games, morals aren't as heavily effected, it's a "justifiable" action because, "hell I already pay for the internet, that means everything provided by the internet, with my actions, comes fully paid with my internet's monthly bill".

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Would this be the whole thing about the national security being under threat by zombie users? That entire last paragraph i quoted from you explains, just that.

People, that don't think anything of it, devour computer software sales. Kinda like resident evil zombies that eat you

refraxion said:

Atleast you seem to know what bittorrent programs are and the name of it.. hmmm .

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Damn right I do, I like to have atleast some knowledge in whatever I'm debating. You can assume all you want, I am sure not to get offended.

RangerSVT said:

Care to explain? Sure, all you have to do is go to utorrent.com or whatever their website is, download their client, hop your little mouse over to the address bar and go to whatever torrent site there is, type out your game wishlist and download / wait.

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Here's what you're not getting, many of us would not resort to pirating games if this kind of bullshit copyright protection weren't there. I would go as far as saying that I would pay a price premium on PC games if copyright protection were to be stripped out. It's annoying, and frankly, pirating some of these games (Bioshock on launch day, all the people who couldn't play because they couldn't authenticate with 2k games servers) is easier or less intrusive than the retail game.

I'll tell you what goes through my mind when I see a $59 game with massive amounts of copyright protection: "why should I bother paying money for a version of the game with all these annoyances, when there's a fixed version online for free?"

Knock knock game publishers, time for a wakeup call.

Look at TES IV: Oblivion, it has no copyright protection apart from a "is the disk in the drive?" check. There's no key, there's no activation, no registration, and obviously no weekly call-ins to a server. Guess what, piracy isn't a big problem with that game, and for exactly the reason I specified, they don't put consumers through the ringer in order to let them play the game.

w1ngzer0 said:

People, that don't think anything of it, devour computer software sales. Kinda like resident evil zombies that eat you

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Same goes for software too - it is very easy to pirate pc games and software, which is why I am not complaining about companies making hard anti-piracy protections for their games. Steam does a good job at that, with CSS, HL2 ect...

I just cannot ignore the fact that console's are taking a big chunk at pc dev and I sure as heck wouldn't want pc devs developing all the good games for the consoles, while we get shafted with beautiful but crappy games (insert your example here).

Which is why I and I hope, many others, will support Mass Effect and Spore, if you want to play mass effect, buy it for the pc, if you want to play spore, buy it for the pc.

Unknown-One said:

Here's what you're not getting, many of us would not resort to pirating games if this kind of bullshit copyright protection weren't there.

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I completely understand your point of view, believe me, I do, but you and people that think like you, are a fraction of pc gamers. Alot of people go to the retail stores and buy games based on the summary and graphics that devs put on the cover box, not many actually have a clue of what anti-piracy method is actually being used for that particular game.

I'm a firm believer than the power-users are a small fraction of gamers that are clueless as to the technicalities of any particular game.

RangerSVT said:

I'm still getting Mass Effect and Spore, primarily to support PC gaming by PAYING.

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I'll be supporting PC gaming by paying for PC games that don't have bullshit copy protection schemes. Bullshit is bullshit and the only thing you support by paying for it, is the perpetuation of said bullshit.

rls669 said:

I'll be supporting PC gaming by paying for PC games that don't have bullshit copy protection schemes. Bullshit is bullshit and the only thing you support by paying for it, is the perpetuation of said bullshit.

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Okay.

Take a deep breath and think for a minute guys. Think how copy protection has evolved. Now think where it's heading. It is starting to get out of hand. I don't mind serial numbers, but I do mind more and more intrusive copy protection. And that is what is happening.

RangerSVT, you do realize what Mass Effect's copy protection is right? It's spyware, plain and simple spyware. Hell, SecuRom in general is spyware. If you have something installed, such as Alcohol 120, just installed, not even running, it blocks you, even if you are playing with a perfectly legit serial number and a perfectly legit cd.

Lame lame lame but spore looks really promising so its a push tradeoff.

I can understand why Bioware are using this. Piracy has reached new levels on the PC. But this will simply put off many of the paying public, talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

There are better ways to maximise revenue. The way Valve inplemented Steam really worked for them. Even though Valve's games were hacked eventually it delayed the process.

I'll be looking for a hack that circumnavigates this before buying it. If there isn't a way around it then I won't be touching it.

I will not have any game like this on any PC I own, period. Even if the publisher said "Here you are, have fun." I would give it away. This type of copy protection is sheer idiocy.

If this type attitude prevails among gaming companies, it's going to kill PC gaming dead.

Master_Pain said:

Like the title says, I will not be paying for Mass Effect or Spore due to their outlandish copy protection created by SecuROM. If you don't know what I am talking about, check here for the article.

For those of you who do not like to read, the copy protection makes Bioshock look like child's play. This new copy protection makes you sync your game, online, every 10 days. If 10 days goes by and you do not "check in" so to speak, your game dies. They try and make themselves look good by saying but, but, but, you don't need your DVD to play. Who cares if you don't need the DVD to play, the game automatically connects to the servers to revalidate. I for one will not stand for this, and officially say, "FUCK YOU" to Bioware.

Anyone else feel the same?

There's also an eight page thread on Bioware's forums complaining about it located here.

Click to expand...

It does not make Bioshock's copy protection scheme look like child's play, simply because the install credits in Bioshock, work per user, per hardware fingerprint and per OS install. This means that in less than 10 days, you can actually render your copy completely useless and unable to be played.

But yes, it's very bad nonetheless. I have no idea what are these people thinking. They obviously fail in common sense, since these measures only hurt paying customers and will most likely result in poor sales, just like what happened with the PC version of Bioshock, Not to mention the return ratio of the game, given that 2K violated their own EULA and even generated some small lawsuits.

Be very careful with any 2K / Take Two release for PC. They pretty much confirmed that any future game (after Bioshock), would use a copy protection scheme similar to Bioshock's (even if not exactly the same). Mafia 2 comes to mind, so I would wait a couple of days after the release of the game and be sure about its copy protection schemes and how exactly they work, before actually buying it.

It took us about a month to know EXACTLY how Bioshock's copy protection scheme worked, because admins in the official 2K forums actually lied about certain "features" that this scheme enforced, which fooled many into believing the scheme was "ok".

That said, Mass Effect and Spore were not games that interested me, but they are completely off my list now...

Well, i am not crazy about the scheme they used but i WILL be supporting Mass Effect with my dollars. However, spore doesn't interest me in the slightest.

I agree with you that this copyprotection sounds like somehting coming straight from hell but I think you should get your priorities straight. In these times we need to prove to devs that it's worth to make (good) games for the pc. We need to do this by BUYING the great games that's coming up (sc2, spore etc etc) please do NOT refrain from doing so just because of some lame copyprotection that's only really an annoyance at worst. Please buy the games, but also email the support team / post a topic on their forums about your opinions. If you boycott games like spore because of the copyprotection they probably won't know why but instead think that piracy has come so far that even the best games do not sell anymore. Do you really want this?

Upon further investigation, it seems that SecuROM enforces a similar scheme as the one found in Bioshock. At least in terms of hardware fingerprint. If you change key hardware components, the game may stop working, just like the infamous "install credits" in Bioshock and you may need to ask EA for assistance...

Derek_French said:

Without any significant hardware changes to your system, you will be able to install and play Mass Effect without any problems. Swapping out one part will not trigger it. For the vast majority of people, they will not encounter any problems and for others, they may be required to contact EA Support to get assistance.

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Silus said:

Upon further investigation, it seems that SecuROM enforces a similar scheme as the one found in Bioshock. At least in terms of hardware fingerprint. If you change key hardware components, the game may stop working, just like the infamous "install credits" in Bioshock and you may need to ask EA for assistance...

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Theres another reason for me not to install the legal version. Europe (at least Germany) doesn't do toll free numbers, plus I don't feel like having to try and explain everything in german to get my key unlocked. Plus theres probably a "earn us cash" waiting line of 30-45 minutes even at 6am.

Sounds like I'll be keeping the box sealed and hitting TPB.

Silus said:

Upon further investigation, it seems that SecuROM enforces a similar scheme as the one found in Bioshock. At least in terms of hardware fingerprint. If you change key hardware components, the game may stop working, just like the infamous "install credits" in Bioshock and you may need to ask EA for assistance...

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Ack! I could deal with the game phoning home every 10 days but there is no way I am going to deal with that bullshit! I did not buy bioshock for that reason and I wont buy Mass Effect either! Its like these damn publishers/developers dont want my money?!

Master_Pain said:

Take a deep breath and think for a minute guys. Think how copy protection has evolved.

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I remember the days of uncopyable floppies, code wheels, and having to look up words or match pictures every time I wanted to play the game.

As long as this is transparent and doesn't try to modify my system in any way or try to collect information about other software I have installed, then I don't have much of a problem with it. Considering it doesn't require the CD to be in the drive, I actually consider this to be a bit of a step forward.

hfk said:

I agree with you that this copyprotection sounds like somehting coming straight from hell but I think you should get your priorities straight. In these times we need to prove to devs that it's worth to make (good) games for the pc. We need to do this by BUYING the great games that's coming up (sc2, spore etc etc) please do NOT refrain from doing so just because of some lame copyprotection that's only really an annoyance at worst. Please buy the games, but also email the support team / post a topic on their forums about your opinions. If you boycott games like spore because of the copyprotection they probably won't know why but instead think that piracy has come so far that even the best games do not sell anymore. Do you really want this?

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Oh, they know why. That's what the forums are there for. People complain about it and show their will to NOT buy a game, with such ludicrous copy protection measures.
And your logic is flawed in an important detail. If you buy games with these measures, you are essentially approving them and thus these companies will continue to use similar systems in future games.

This has nothing to do with piracy i.e. it's not about pirating the game, but about showing these companies, that we, PC Gamers, cannot be the bastard child of gaming and get these ridiculous measures, while console gamers play the games first and without any of these problems.

The bottom line is, software houses need to focus on a good quality game and NOT copy protection measures. With that in mind, people will buy it. I'm sure that after the success of Mass Effect on the XBox360, many people wanted to buy the game for the PC, but with measures like these, many will avoid it and with good reasons to.

Here we go again with the "not buying" as opposed to "not playing" argument whereby people feel entitled to steal something rather than not enjoying it. If it were any physical product, as opposed to a game, movie, or music, and you disagreed with a company's decision regarding that product to the point that you didn't buy it, you wouldn't enjoy it. Yet somehow, its perfectly ok in most people's minds to just pirate it instead. Surprised this isn't locked yet...

And upon even more investigation, it seems that install limits are indeed in place and the game may stop functioning, when you reach 3 re-activations...It's really Bioshock all over again...

Also this:

Derek_French said:

We have been told that this is the protection system for EA PC titles going forward, starting with Mass Effect.

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I was really disheartened by this as well. A few years ago, I spent a few months digitizing everything I had and storing it on my HDs: DVDs into divx, CDs into MP3s, games into isos. Whenever I needed an app, I'd load it up in Alcohol 120% (Registered, of course) and get my serial key out of the database. All of the original disks are in a box under the stairs. Heck, I had 2TB in drives back in '04 specifically for this purpose.

It is practically impossible for me to play Securerom games, even when I go and fish the disk back out due to it not running if it even sniffs the smell of Alcohol on my computer's breath. After all the scary crap with Starforce, my tolerance for additional apps that "secure" their games is extra low.

The last few games I have bought have all been from Stardock. They seem to love making great games that sell well and telling you upfront that there is 100% no DRM crap there.

I was really looking forward to Mass Effect and Spore, but this is kind of disheartening.

OOoh....this sucks... torn about this now. It's a little TOO much now even for me and I can accept most copy protection schemes. I would have probably avoided spore anyway because just didn't care, but I love mass effect and wanted the higher res version.

Good At least now I have $60+ dollars saved in my pocket. Thanks for the info. This type of Anti-piracy is BS. Hell it makes me want to think about cracking titles like this. I don't even do that sort of stuff either. But out of spite it's a thought that crosses my mind ^-^

There is one positive side to this. Unlike 2K that blatantly lied about some of Bioshock's copy protection "features", Bioware seems to be keen in disclosing every bit about how this copy protection works:

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?forum=125&topic=628724

It's really the only plus in all this. And according to what they've been saying and my knowledge of how SecuROM works (ever since Bioshock's debacle), they haven't lied yet...

I just love the people justifying this as "anti-piracy". But it doesn't stop piracy, it doesn't stop anything. It just frustrates the real users and kids who might "share with their friend".

i was waiting for mass effect to come out for PC, but guess ill wait for the no-cd (no securerom) patch to come out also, like the X3 developers did.

wont pirate it, wont buy it either.
Same goes for spore. There are enough good games out there to hold me over.
Stardock has proved that a good game sells itself. no copy protection required.

I'm just confused.......all you guys are saying that because a company has instituted a security system, it essentially "entitles" you to steal it from a pirate site.

Just because you dont like it, you're just going to throw a big temper tantrum and steal the work, just to "show them meanie publishers".....

I have Bioshock, never had any problems with their security, loaded it twice, played it and put it away.

So you have to go to the game server every 10 days to "check in" , big deal. If you're playing it every couple of days, what's the bid deal. The only problem I could see is if you went out of town for 2 weeks on vacation or for work or something.

Yeah,yeah; argue "it's the principle" of the thing......well if you don't like the idea, don't buy the game.

I don't care about either game, so it is a moot point.

Thanks to the high piracy rate and decline in PC gaming, publishers/devs are being forced into this. Go ahead and not buy their product, its only going to make them just not dev/publish on the PC at all anymore. Just as many other major studios are already doing.

magoo said:

I'm just confused.......all you guys are saying that because a company has instituted a security system, it essentially "entitles" you to steal it from a pirate site.

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Of course you're confused. You didn't read more than half the replies in the thread...

The majority WILL NOT pirate the game, but will be avoiding it, no doubt due to these ludicrous copy protection measures. As I mentioned before, due to the popularity of Mass Effect on the XboX360, there were many people interested in buy it for the PC. But for some of them, that's just not going to happen with these measures in place. Yes, the principle of the thing is part of the reason, but it's not just that. Copy Protection annoys only those that actually bought the product. If it's designed to prevent piracy, why aren't pirates being stopped by it ? Common sense dictates that if a certain measure frustrates someone, that someone will probably give up in doing his/her illegal activity. Still, these software houses keep on saying that piracy is rampant on the PC, so what gives ?

People that buy the game should actually be rewarded with good support, constant fixing of the bugs in regular patches and even possible expansion packs. They shouldn't be dealing with these measures and a good way to show that is in not buying the game. And not buy the game, doesn't mean pirate it...

wait a sec. can someone explain to me in a real-world example how this copy protection on mass effect would annoy you or hinder you from playing the game?

I've bought all kinds of games with all kinds of copy protection, and I've NEVER experienced any evidence of copy-protection hindering my gameplay(and I keep close watch on every aspect of software on my machine).