3dmark05 & ATI - Sacrificing Image Quality for Speed?

T

tranCendenZ

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After reviewing some 3dmark05 screenshot comparisons by Driverheaven.net and Bjorn3d.com, it became evident that ATI may be sacrificing IQ for increased performance. Check out these comparisions:

3DMARK05 ATI X800 ARTIFACTS: FOG RENDERING

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREA IN THE RED OUTLINE

NOTE the failure to render all of the fog in the ATI screenshot

EXAMPLE 1
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.70 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 4.9
Reference Rasterizer image

EXAMPLE 2
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.81 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 8.07
Reference Rasterizer image

Source: Beyond3D.com & NvNews.net forums

*********

3DMARK05 ATI X800 ARTIFACTS: FILTERING/MOIRE

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREAS IN THE RED OUTLINES

NOTE the obvious moire patterns in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 4.9 w/ hotfix

Source: Bjorn3d.com

********

3DMARK05 ATI X800 ARTIFACTS: BANDING

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREA IN THE RED OUTLINE

NOTE the increased banding in the sky in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 8.07 Beta
Closeup of ATI's banding from above shot

Source: Driverheaven.net
 
ive only seen banding like that on buildings in FS2004 when at a huge distance, i think its some kind of AF problem, since its not as bad at 8 or 16X AF
 
tranCendenZ said:
After reviewing some 3dmark05 screenshot comparisons by Driverheaven.net and Bjorn3d.com, it became evident that ATI was sacrificing IQ for increased performance. Check out these comparisions:

3DMARK05 X800 ARTIFACTS: FILTERING/MOIRE

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREAS IN THE RED OUTLINES

NOTE the obvious moire patterns in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 4.9 w/ hotfix

Source: Bjorn3d.com

********

3DMARK05 X800 ARTIFACTS: BANDING

*** PLEASE OPEN THESE TWO IMAGES IN SEPERATE BROWSER WINDOWS AND SWITCH BACK AND FORTH USING ALT TAB AND EXAMINE THE AREA IN THE RED OUTLINE

NOTE the increased banding in the sky in the ATI screenshots
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 66.51 Beta
ATI X800XTPE 8.07 Beta
Closeup of ATI's banding from above shot

Source: Driverheaven.net
Click to expand...


Can't really tell in the sky one but the other one is very noticable, and very similiar to what Doom 3 has with the new drivers.

nm close up helped out lol
 
If we could hurry up and get some heated discussion on this going, that'd be great. I'm at work so I can't view those images, but I'm all for watching more wars. Get going!
 
now when your deathmatching do you think your really going to notice that?
 
Filter said:
now when your deathmatching do you think your really going to notice that?
Click to expand...

When you're paying $400 for a video card, you want the best, period. Regardless of whether or not you'll notice it. It's the principle.
 
I just really want to see what ATi will get with opts off, I get 4700 with opts off in the 66.70 driver, and quite frankly nothing ATi can do can match the High Quality setting in the NV Cp.
 
wow, good info. I wonder what is up with doom3 and the moire you see in the gratings on the ground. anyway to get rid of this? I haven't found any and I've tried everything I know how.

I think I read somewhwer that that grating/flooring you can't avoid it. Response?
 
Banko said:
I just really want to see what ATi will get with opts off, I get 4700 with opts off in the 66.70 driver, and quite frankly nothing ATi can do can match the High Quality setting in the NV Cp.
Click to expand...

? their opts are off by default, this shots were taken with no aa and af
 
oozish said:
wow, good info. I wonder what is up with doom3 and the moire you see in the gratings on the ground. anyway to get rid of this? I haven't found any and I've tried everything I know how.

I think I read somewhwer that that grating/flooring you can't avoid it. Response?
Click to expand...


using full trilinear filtering should remove it.
 
Not surprising since that's the exact same quality "issue" ATI had with the 4.9 beta in Doom3.
 
The sky banding is interesting

banding only happens when you use fp 16 or less then fp 16 precision. Well it does happen with fp24 as well but its extrememly hard to see.
 
I think you guys (and Bjorn for that matter) are really reaching for something that isn't really there.

In the sky shot, I didn't notice any banding... even in the closeup and switching back and forth. As for the proxycon thing, I think ATi's looks better... its clearer (especially on the left side). And this is coming from someone who owns a 6800 (but I bought it for Doom3 and Doom3 engine games, so 3Dmark2k5 is a moot application).

Whatever card you have is the wrong one and it's also the slower one because you suck, and the company (ATi/nVidia) you like more sucks. Basically, all I am saying is that YOU are the reason not all hardware is equal.... also you probably have a small penis.

peace,
OriginalOCer
 
OriginalOCer said:
I think you guys (and Bjorn for that matter) are really reaching for something that isn't really there.

In the sky shot, I didn't notice any banding... even in the closeup and switching back and forth. As for the proxycon thing, I think ATi's looks better... its clearer (especially on the left side). And this is coming from someone who owns a 6800 (but I bought it for Doom3 and Doom3 engine games, so 3Dmark2k5 is a moot application).

Whatever card you have is the wrong one and it's also the slower one because you suck, and the company (ATi/nVidia) you like more sucks. Basically, all I am saying is that YOU are the reason not all hardware is equal.... also you probably have a small penis.

peace,
OriginalOCer
Click to expand...


Don't care much about the banding but the moire effect, just checked Bjorn 3d they used x4 aa and x8 af with these shots.

That should not happen at all!

http://www.bjorn3d.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/14/sort/1/cat/503/page/2
 
OriginalOCer said:
Whatever card you have is the wrong one and it's also the slower one because you suck, and the company (ATi/nVidia) you like more sucks. Basically, all I am saying is that YOU are the reason not all hardware is equal.... also you probably have a small penis.

peace,
OriginalOCer
Click to expand...

Ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahha :D :D :D

Way to make me laugh while I'm on the phone with a customer :p
 
rancor said:
Doom 3 has the same artifacts
Click to expand...

I remember reading some article somewhere that ATI had fixed it. Is it only an 8.07 beta deal, or is it in the 4.9's as well?
 
ratmeleon said:
I remember reading some article somewhere that ATI had fixed it. Is it only an 8.07 beta deal, or is it in the 4.9's as well?
Click to expand...

You can see from the original post there is artifacting in both 4.9 and 8.07
 
ratmeleon said:
Didn't ATI say that their AI won't make a difference in synthetic benchmarks?
Click to expand...


Supposed to, don't really know whats going on, but it seems like thier optimized filtering methods are breaking down when heavy pixel shaders are being used.
 
oh wait, i remember, it's because, turning AI off should disable their optimizations. Maybe all the artifacts occur because of this?
 
ratmeleon said:
oh wait, i remember, it's because, turning AI off should disable their optimizations. Maybe all the artifacts occur because of this?
Click to expand...


Bjorn 3d said they tested them off :). So either they messed up the test, or well ya get the idea
 
rancor said:
Doom 3 has the same artifacts
Click to expand...
far cry did, too. but it wasn't as easy to see as it is on doom3 and now 3dmark.
 
pxc said:
far cry did, too. but it wasn't as easy to see as it is on doom3 and now 3dmark.
Click to expand...


Yep need to be in an area with very strong lights
 
I just ran the bench with the lastest beta 8.07's and don't see anything like what Trancendz posted on the 1st page. No banding, no weird anomolies.

I have two suggestions for you Trancendz.

1. Don't believe everything you read.

2. Stop being such a hater.

We all know what side of the fence you're on. Why do you insist on bashing ATI and glorifying Nvidia every chance you get?
 
Apple740 on b3d noted it only appears on pro version when you use application af instead of setting it by cp. Since relatively few use the pro version and everyone uses af forced through cp, you can draw your own conclusion ;/. BTW whats up with the colors on the game test 2 nvidia shot? The shadows seem to come in stripes or something. Maybe thats what Hexus was talking about when they said something about DST producing worse image.
 
Mister E said:
I just ran the bench with the lastest beta 8.07's and don't see anything like what Trancendz posted on the 1st page. No banding, no weird anomolies.

I have two suggestions for you Trancendz.

1. Don't believe everything you read.

2. Stop being such a hater.

We all know what side of the fence you're on. Why do you insist on bashing ATI and glorifying Nvidia every chance you get?
Click to expand...

So you don't see it therefore it doesn't exist right? Maybe you should go play games and leave the discussion about image quality to the guys with 20/20 vision.

The banding in the sky isn't a big deal, except that it really shouldn't be there under any circumstances. The moire effect seems to be getting worse with each driver release. I don't know about you guys, but I think it's about time for another image quality debacle to get ATi to play honest again. Nvidia seemed to learn thier lesson with 03, maybe 05 will be ATi's turn...
 
^eMpTy^ said:
So you don't see it therefore it doesn't exist right? Maybe you should go play games and leave the discussion about image quality to the guys with 20/20 vision.

The banding in the sky isn't a big deal, except that it really shouldn't be there under any circumstances. The moire effect seems to be getting worse with each driver release. I don't know about you guys, but I think it's about time for another image quality debacle to get ATi to play honest again. Nvidia seemed to learn thier lesson with 03, maybe 05 will be ATi's turn...
Click to expand...

its a futuremark approved driver...so it must be rendering everything right...

and yes....ive yet to see trans post an article either praising ati or downplaying nvidia...makes u wonder...no actually...it doesnt =)
 
joEziLLAH said:
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
Click to expand...

and whats so funny about it...im sure they checked the driver many times over before approving it...if they deemed it okay(the guys who wrote the damn thing)...what do you have to complain about?
 
^eMpTy^ said:
So you don't see it therefore it doesn't exist right? Maybe you should go play games and leave the discussion about image quality to the guys with 20/20 vision.

The banding in the sky isn't a big deal, except that it really shouldn't be there under any circumstances. The moire effect seems to be getting worse with each driver release. I don't know about you guys, but I think it's about time for another image quality debacle to get ATi to play honest again. Nvidia seemed to learn thier lesson with 03, maybe 05 will be ATi's turn...
Click to expand...
Holy shit empty's back!

It's because they are using the Pro version of 3DShit05 which doesn't apply the setting properly where as all of us are using the free version which we can't change jack within 3DMark05 and use the control panel instead. The control panel works, but the almighty answer to bencmarking doesn't.

Hey empty, ever see the movie "Conspiracy Theory"?
 
joEziLLAH said:
You spent $600 on a video card,

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Click to expand...
Um, what is the big deal. When the nForce4 is out, I will be paying $1000 for dual nv50s :/
 
kcthebrewer said:
Um, what is the big deal. When the nForce4 is out, I will be paying $1000 for dual nv50s :/
Click to expand...

u must not have a girlfriend then....if u do...aint no way in hell u'll have an extra $1000 lying around to spend on grapic cards

LV purses...
 
trungracingdev said:
u must not have a girlfriend then....if u do...aint no way in hell u'll have an extra $1000 lying around to spend on grapic cards

LV purses...
Click to expand...

I think the real question is what kind of girls are you attracting if you dont have any money because you are with them.
 
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