$2,500 RTX-5090 ( 60% faster than 4090 )

LukeTbk said:
70 ti super does, regular 4070 often match the 3090
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And this is the trend that will continue. 5070 Ti will be around the performance level of a 4090 but obviously with less VRAM and maybe better RT as long as VRAM doesn't exceed capacity. 5080 will be a good deal faster than a 4090 and the 5090 will be way faster than a 4090. Any website or leaker claiming otherwise is most likely just seeking clicks because stating the obvious is too boring and doesn't get any attention.
 
LittleBuddy said:
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Yes exactly, we see xx70 class card matching the 3090 ti and beating the 3090... even at 4k ? That was the same with tthe 2080Ti vs 3070, in some scenario the 2080TI was still a bit faster, but those 2 card were in general in the same performance class (the you need to see numbers to see a small difference either way)
 
LukeTbk said:
Yes exactly, we see xx70 class card matching the 3090 ti and beating the 3090... even at 4k ? That was the same with tthe 2080Ti vs 3070, in some scenario the 2080TI was still a bit faster, but those 2 card were in general in the same performance class (the you need to see numbers to see a small difference either way)
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The other guy who I responding to was referring to 5070 being slower than a 4090 like it's very uncommon, which it isn't. Not a 5070 Ti, I expect a 5070 Ti to be around the same performance of a 4090. Guessing a 5080 will be about 10% faster than a 4090 and a 5090 being around 40%-60% faster than a 4090.
 
WilyKit said:
Main reason we need that TSMC Arizona fab spun up asap. I mean, not just for 5090's but everything else based on TSMC's processes.
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Any chance TSMC will bring their latest process to the US or only the mid range process nodes?
 
LittleBuddy said:
I expect a 5070 Ti to be around the same performance of a 4090
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Could be, considering it is purely a "choice", that will be decided with supply capacity-amd-etc... very well possible specially that the gap between the top popular card and the xx80 is quite big this time around, it is easy to make a new 5070 that beat the 4080 by a good amount to be super interesting but not the 4090 and there a chance of very little gain via the node, they would need larger chips-memory bandwith, both would be easy if they want but that a if.
 
LukeTbk said:
Could be, considering it is purely a "choice", that will be decided with supply capacity-amd-etc... very well possible specially that the gap between the top popular card and the xx80 is quite big this time around, it is easy to make a new 5070 that beat the 4080 by a good amount to be super interesting but not the 4090 and there a chance of very little gain via the node, they would need larger chips-memory bandwith, both would be easy if they want but that a if.
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Yea even if 5070Ti was 10% slower than a 4090 it would still be a very fast card, for significantly cheaper. I don't see why people should complain about it, like they're entitled to match a the previous gen flagship, if they want flagship performance just buy the xx90 series.
 
LittleBuddy said:
Yea even if 5070Ti was 10% slower than a 4090 it would still be a very fast card, for significantly cheaper. I don't see why people should complain about it, like they're entitled to match a the previous gen flagship, if they want flagship performance just buy the xx90 series.
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This whole thread is full of entitlement with people telling you that you should not buy something that you can afford in order to somehow force a price drop so that they can now afford it.
 
longblock454 said:
Any chance TSMC will bring their latest process to the US or only the mid range process nodes?
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I'm speculating, but I doubt US government issued 50B in subsidies to bring them over for anything short of their state of the art processes. We already have several sources outside Taiwan in general and TSMC in particular for "lesser" process nodes. Intel, Global Foundries and Samsung all have fabs here in the US.
 
longblock454 said:
Any chance TSMC will bring their latest process to the US or only the mid range process nodes?
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I think pre-delay they would have been close to be latest process (would the 3N happened in 2026 and would the N4 launched in 2024 like planned instead of maybe 2025.

N4-2025 instead of 2024
N3-2028 instead of 2026

still advanced and previous node obviously but not latest Apple level.
 
MistaSparkul said:
This whole thread is full of entitlement with people telling you that you should not buy something that you can afford in order to somehow force a price drop so that they can now afford it.
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That is a borderline idiotic statement and childish quite frankly. Perhaps that may be the movitation for some but for many of us who can actually "afford" to purchase any card we choose it's also unfair! This is simply a matter of principle and responsible spending. Nvidia is taking advantage of you and many others free spending attitude and all of us "gamers" are paying for it! In the very near future when a 4k video card is considered an acceptable price it will be you oand others like you who will be to blame as to why you no longer have a hobby. Why? Because even though you will be willing to fork over 4,000 for a video card, the vast majority of people will simply say enough is enough and leave the hobby, resulting in a shrinking pc game market, and making it even easier for developers to develop for whatever passes as a console at that time. You sir, with your 4k video card will be an afterthought.
 
MistaSparkul said:
And this is the trend that will continue. 5070 Ti will be around the performance level of a 4090 but obviously with less VRAM and maybe better RT as long as VRAM doesn't exceed capacity. 5080 will be a good deal faster than a 4090 and the 5090 will be way faster than a 4090. Any website or leaker claiming otherwise is most likely just seeking clicks because stating the obvious is too boring and doesn't get any attention.
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as a person that went from a gtx 1060 when 2090's were out, went 2070 when 3090's were out... and now just went 4070 ti super and OMG I am wow'd and for the $, will continue this route... well skipping the 5xxx series most likely...
 
cesarioFL71 said:
That is a borderline idiotic statement and childish quite frankly. Perhaps that may be the movitation for some but for many of us who can actually "afford" to purchase any card we choose it's also unfair! This is simply a matter of principle and responsible spending. Nvidia is taking advantage of you and many others free spending attitude and all of us "gamers" are paying for it! In the very near future when a 4k video card is considered an acceptable price it will be you oand others like you who will be to blame as to why you no longer have a hobby. Why? Because even though you will be willing to fork over 4,000 for a video card, the vast majority of people will simply say enough is enough and leave the hobby, resulting in a shrinking pc game market, and making it even easier for developers to develop for whatever passes as a console at that time. You sir, with your 4k video card will be an afterthought.
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cry more
 
LittleBuddy said:
I wasn't even talking about xx70 vs xx90. I was talking about generational performance. But I don't see what you're getting at saying that a 70 series card matches the previous generations flagship.

770 does not beat or equal Titan
970 does not beat or equal Titan Black
1070 beats Titan X (Maxwell) by 8%
2070 does not beat or equal Titan Xp
3070 beats 2080Ti by 4%, loses to Titan V (Including 2080Ti here because Titan V was expensive)
4070 does not beat 3090 or 3090 Ti

Most of the time the 70 series does not match a flagship from the previous generation.

780 does not match or equal Titan
980 equals Titan Black
1080 beats Titan X (Maxwell)
2080 equals Titan Xp
3080 beats 2080Ti and Titan V
4080 beats 3090 Ti

80 series cards usually beat the previous flagship.
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Sure I guess if you want to throw in real Titans as GeForce gaming cards. I really am just speaking on the GeForce stack sans Titans though. Add Titans because they occupy this bizarro slot between gaming card and prosumer card, sure. But really Titans were absolutely different every single gen they existed where they were either better, the same, or worse than the x80 / xx80 Ti card.

We've still dropped off a cliff with the 40-series on price to performance expectations at each segment.

As for your second list...Nvidia themselves marketing the 3070 as a 2080 Ti for $500 and aside from the reduction in VRAM, it absolutely was for the most part and that's been true of most 70 cards matching the flagship GeForce card for the past several gens.

Until the 20 and 40 series respectively.
 
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Sir Beregond said:
Sure I guess if you want to throw in real Titans as GeForce gaming cards. I really am just speaking on the GeForce stack sans Titans though. Add Titans because they occupy this bizarro slot between gaming card and prosumer card, sure. But really Titans were absolutely different every single gen they existed where they were either better, the same, or worse than the x80 / xx80 Ti card.

We've still dropped off a cliff with the 40-series on price to performance expectations at each segment.

As for your second list...Nvidia themselves marketing the 3070 as a 2080 Ti for $500 and aside from the reduction in VRAM, it absolutely was for the most part and that's been true of most 70 cards matching the flagship GeForce card for the past several gens.

Until the 20 and 40 series respectively.
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You did say flagships, so I assumed the flagship would be the cards with the full die or nearly the full die. I always considered xx80 cards to be high end, xx70 mid range, xx60 low end, xx50 entry level.
 
Zorachus said:
I sure hope this rumored $2500 price for the upcoming RTX-5090 isn't correct?

Said to be 60% to 70% faster than the current RTX-4090;

https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/geforce-rtx-5090-performance
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They are not called "Ngreedia for nothing". I am not surprised by their crazy pricing anymore.

Watch them sell the 5090 for $2500 and say well it's faster than the 4090 and "inflation". Big wallet epeen buyers will still buy it.

And then watch them price the 5080 at $1999 and watch it not sell at all. Because it will barely be faster than the 4090 but the performance doesn't justify the price markup.

What's next a $1200 5070? Nvidia has the arrogance to try all of this. They make plenty of money on AI so they will try to gouge gamers and if the 5000 series outside of 5090 doesn't sell that well, it doesn't matter to them.
 
vjhawk said:
They are not called "Ngreedia for nothing". I am not surprised by their crazy pricing anymore.

Watch them sell the 5090 for $2500 and say well it's faster than the 4090 and "inflation". Big wallet epeen buyers will still buy it.

And then watch them price the 5080 at $1999 and watch it not sell at all. Because it will barely be faster than the 4090 but the performance doesn't justify the price markup.

What's next a $1200 5070? Nvidia has the arrogance to try all of this. They make plenty of money on AI so they will try to gouge gamers and if the 5000 series outside of 5090 doesn't sell that well, it doesn't matter to them.
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While I definitely don't disagree, that pricing won't make any sense. Not saying most of 40-series pricing made sense either but they did end up having to do a Super series to somewhat course correct in some segments, most notably the 4070 Super and 4080 Super. If it really and truly fully didn't matter to them, then there was no need for them to do 40-series Super.

Gaming maybe not a majority of their revenue anymore, but it is still a significant percentage that cannot be fully ignored. They have to maintain some form of product that more than just the big wallet epeen whales will buy.
 
$2.5k, hell not even an MSRP of $3k would stop people from buying them day 1 and bragging about it, and posting updates on the shipping status of their card or how long they waited in line, yada yada. The hype is real.
 
Sir Beregond said:
While I definitely don't disagree, that pricing won't make any sense. Not saying most of 40-series pricing made sense either but they did end up having to do a Super series to somewhat course correct in some segments, most notably the 4070 Super and 4080 Super. If it really and truly fully didn't matter to them, then there was no need for them to do 40-series Super.

Gaming maybe not a majority of their revenue anymore, but it is still a significant percentage that cannot be fully ignored. They have to maintain some form of product that more than just the big wallet epeen whales will buy.
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This. The 5090 can cost whatever, but not the 5080 and under. If Nvidia suddenly priced the 50 series starting at $999 with the 5060 which goes up to $3000 for the 5090, just how many (or how little) sales do you think they will actually get? Sometimes all this price talk just starts getting really absurd.
 
5090 could be $3k, and most of us who will buy on day one are going to sell our 4090's and make half that back. Obviously it will depend on market conditions and where the lower tier 50 cards stack up, but I paid MSRP for the 4090 Founders and I'm willing to bet I'll recoup every penny if these new flagships are indeed super expensive. A grand or two every other year leveling up really shouldn't be a big deal for the enthusiast. I can think of far more expensive hobbies.
 
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So my question to Ngreediya is:

Exactly which part of NO do you not understand, the "N" part or the "O" part ?

But as usual and continuing their push towards AI this and AI that, they simply don't give a sh^t about the consumer market anymore, other than being able to say that they still sell stuff for that segment, albeit at outrageous prices....

But also as usual, there are quite a few gamr slugs out there with more $$ than brains, who will stop at nothing just so they can say that they have the "latest & greatest" and will scoop these new cards up, regardless of price, just to boost their sorry, e-peen deficient existence, at least until the next cycle begins again the following year :D

I am hereby formally calling for an massive, world-wide embargo on buying these & all their future cards until the prices are reduced to reasonable levels, ie $800 for the xx90, $600 for xx80, and $400 for the lower end and $200 for the budget series....

Yes I know it's a pipe dream, but just sayin :D
 
NukeDukem said:
5090 could be $3k, and most of us who will buy on day one are going to sell our 4090's and make half that back. Obviously it will depend on market conditions and where the lower tier 50 cards stack up, but I paid MSRP for the 4090 Founders and I'm willing to bet I'll recoup every penny if these new flagships are indeed super expensive. A grand or two every other year leveling up really shouldn't be a big deal for the enthusiast. I can think of far more expensive hobbies.
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I doubt it. There are people struggling to sell their 4090 for very long periods of time. No one is buying 4090s anymore. They have already quietly deprecated behind the scenes. Maybe some Asus fan boys will still pay too dollars for the ROG brand this late in the game but it's few and far between. Everyone learned their lesson last generation.
 
There's a lot of doom and gloom around GPU pricing, and not without reason, but at the end of the day NVIDIA's objective is to turn a profit, and the $1,200 RTX 4080 didn't do that because few people bought one. They had to reintroduce the same card under a new name so they could cut the price to $999 without losing face. They're not going to jack the x80 price again because the market just taught them a very expensive lesson. The 4090, OTOH, was actually kind-of underpriced at $1,600. They could have charged $2k and still sold out given the huge performance uplift, excellent efficiency vs last-gen, and the AI boom with people seeking cheaper alternatives to pro-level cards. This is why rumors show such a huge difference in CU's between the 5080 and 5090, IMO. One is destined for a $999 price level, and the other is a Titan-level beast costing at least $2k.

Personally, I sat out this whole generation because I just couldn't justify the insane prices for any card that would have been a noticeable upgrade from my 6800 XT, meaning both companies earned zero profit from me, even though I was ready and excited to pay $800 until I saw how little they offered in return. I might pick up a 7900 XTX this year if I can snag a used one for $750 or less, or maybe a 7900 XT or GRE for $600 and $500 respectively. Otherwise, I'll just keep grumbling along running my racing sims and UEVR games in Virtual Desktop at a locked 36 or 45 fps on medium settings and 5k resolution. Even a 4090 can't run them maxed at native 6k 120 fps (and I doubt a 5090 will be able to either), so I'm not willing to overspend if I still have to make compromises.
 
arthur_tuxedo said:
There's a lot of doom and gloom around GPU pricing, and not without reason, but at the end of the day NVIDIA's objective is to turn a profit, and the $1,200 RTX 4080 didn't do that because few people bought one. They had to reintroduce the same card under a new name so they could cut the price to $999 without losing face. They're not going to jack the x80 price again because the market just taught them a very expensive lesson. The 4090, OTOH, was actually kind-of underpriced at $1,600. They could have charged $2k and still sold out given the huge performance uplift, excellent efficiency vs last-gen, and the AI boom with people seeking cheaper alternatives to pro-level cards. This is why rumors show such a huge difference in CU's between the 5080 and 5090, IMO. One is destined for a $999 price level, and the other is a Titan-level beast costing at least $2k.

Personally, I sat out this whole generation because I just couldn't justify the insane prices for any card that would have been a noticeable upgrade from my 6800 XT, meaning both companies earned zero profit from me, even though I was ready and excited to pay $800 until I saw how little they offered in return. I might pick up a 7900 XTX this year if I can snag a used one for $750 or less, or maybe a 7900 XT or GRE for $600 and $500 respectively. Otherwise, I'll just keep grumbling along running my racing sims and UEVR games in Virtual Desktop at a locked 36 or 45 fps on medium settings and 5k resolution. Even a 4090 can't run them maxed at native 6k 120 fps (and I doubt a 5090 will be able to either), so I'm not willing to overspend if I still have to make compromises.
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Do you realize you're kinda saying they should charge 2k for the 5090 and thus make a $1200 5080 more of a "bargain?"
 
Furious_Styles said:
Do you realize you're kinda saying they should charge 2k for the 5090 and thus make a $1200 5080 more of a "bargain?"
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They can't do that because the 5080 isn't the flagship. The flagship halo product can be priced at whatever ridiculous amount, it's been done before with the Titan lineup. We had the Titan V for $3000 and the Titan RTX for $2500. People will not buy a 5080 at $1200 because it is a bargain vs the 5090, they don't care about the 5090, they care that the 5080 is too expensive for what it is. I'm pretty sure people who are after an 80 series GPU will have a different mindset when shopping around vs those who are after a flagship 90 series and simply do not care about price at all.
 
MistaSparkul said:
They can't do that because the 5080 isn't the flagship. The flagship halo product can be priced at whatever ridiculous amount, it's been done before with the Titan lineup. We had the Titan V for $3000 and the Titan RTX for $2500. People will not buy a 5080 at $1200 because it is a bargain vs the 5090, they don't care about the 5090, they care that the 5080 is too expensive for what it is. I'm pretty sure people who are after an 80 series GPU will have a different mindset when shopping around vs those who are after a flagship 90 series and simply do not care about price at all.
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I think they can, they just leverage the pricing and RT performance. It's the one feature AMD can't compete on very well and lots of people care about it.
 
Furious_Styles said:
I think they can, they just leverage the pricing and RT performance. It's the one feature AMD can't compete on very well and lots of people care about it.
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If they care enough to spend $1200 on it then that's on them for letting nvidia have their way. I personally have never expected a flagship halo product (5090) to be reasonably priced, nor have I ever expected people who buy such products to bat an eye at pricing. The non flagship products on the other hand though (5080 and under) should always be priced within reason and it's up to the consumers who steer towards the products to keep it that way.
 
The 5090 will not be above $2000, likely $1500-$1800. The 5080 will be $1000. Nvidia knows how much enthusiasts and high end buyers are willing to pay. The 4080 Super made it obvious. The original 4080 did not meeting sales expectations, they were testing the waters. I wouldn't expect a 5080 to be even close to a 5090 in performance though, if anything it will be a larger gap in performance than the 4080 and 4090.
 
MistaSparkul said:
If they care enough to spend $1200 on it then that's on them for letting nvidia have their way. I personally have never expected a flagship halo product (5090) to be reasonably priced, nor have I ever expected people who buy such products to bat an eye at pricing. The non flagship products on the other hand though (5080 and under) should always be priced within reason and it's up to the consumers who steer towards the products to keep it that way.
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There's no doubt it's on them. I'm just thinking nvidia could make the math hard for them. $2500-3k for the x90 and then $1200 for the x80. Something like that. This is all complicated a bit now due to the 4090 being priced as it was and how it would compare to the 5090 of course.

LittleBuddy said:
The 5090 will not be above $2000, likely $1500-$1800. The 5080 will be $1000. Nvidia knows how much enthusiasts and high end buyers are willing to pay. The 4080 Super made it obvious. The original 4080 did not meeting sales expectations, they were testing the waters. I wouldn't expect a 5080 to be even close to a 5090 in performance though, if anything it will be a larger gap in performance than the 4080 and 4090.
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Why do you say that? They priced the 3090 ti at $2k (a HORRIBLE value) and yet still quite a few people bought it.
 
Furious_Styles said:
There's no doubt it's on them. I'm just thinking nvidia could make the math hard for them. $2500-3k for the x90 and then $1200 for the x80. Something like that. This is all complicated a bit now due to the 4090 being priced as it was and how it would compare to the 5090 of course.
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Well that only works to a certain degree. If Nvidia was to price the 5090 at $10,000 then the 5080 at $3,000 does that mean everyone is now going to rush out to buy a 5080 because it's technically a screaming bargain compared to the 5090? I have no doubts Nvidia will try to test the waters again, I just don't see it working just like it didn't work for the 4080 and they had to backpedal.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Well that only works to a certain degree. If Nvidia was to price the 5090 at $10,000 then the 5080 at $3,000 does that mean everyone is now going to rush out to buy a 5080 because it's technically a screaming bargain compared to the 5090? I have no doubts Nvidia will try to test the waters again, I just don't see it working just like it didn't work for the 4080 and they had to backpedal.
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I think we both know those are too high. Like I said they could monkey around with the prices and performance and make the math harder for people. I mean what do you think it would take for them to convince a bunch of people to buy an AMD card?
 
Furious_Styles said:
I think they can, they just leverage the pricing and RT performance. It's the one feature AMD can't compete on very well and lots of people care about it.
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As well as dlss upscaling quality, frame gen in many new games, and overall (perceived or not) driver quality. It would take a couple of gens for me to trust things have changed with AMD.

Thus far they have not, so I'll be in for a 5xxx series Nvidia card. The only question is price as to whether it's an 80 or a 90 really. If the 90 is in line with the last two generations on price ($1500ish) I'll almost definitely grab one. Of course, as you noted, if the 80 is performant enough and the pricing attractive enough, I'm not going to buy more than I need.
 
For me it's probably going to come down to whether they really do try to lock down the AI gen of the new card or not. If the 5090 is also 80%+ faster in AI stuff and maybe contains a RAM uplift, I might be in for it even if it's a bit more expensive. If it's just faster in gaming... idk, it's a hard sell. The 4090 just does too well on 4k with DLSS on. And anything it doesn't do well on, the framerate is so low that even an 80% uplift won't necessarily make it that great...
 
Furious_Styles said:
I think we both know those are too high. Like I said they could monkey around with the prices and performance and make the math harder for people. I mean what do you think it would take for them to convince a bunch of people to buy an AMD card?
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That's kinda what I mean, at some point the price is simply too high regardless of how much of a bargain it is relative to the 5090. They will monkey around with the pricing for sure, I'm just expecting that they will have to once again backpedal when the sales numbers doesn't work out.
 
Furious_Styles said:
Why do you say that? They priced the 3090 ti at $2k (a HORRIBLE value) and yet still quite a few people bought it.
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It was discounted by $1000 like 6 months after release. If I recall correctly it was discounted to like $1500 or $1600 a month or two after release.
 
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