NVIDIA Pulling Plug on GPP

IdiotInCharge said:
I don't ever write off AMD, but I do temper my expectations. I also have no illusions about how long it takes to produce a new GPU, so while I appreciate Lisa Su channeling her inner Jen, my expectations will remain tempered ;).

[and as always, I'd love to be proven wrong!]
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In a place like this, folks simply want good products. nVidia makes plenty of mistakes and have made bad products but when it comes to GPUs for gaming who has executed better overall for as long? I paid MSRP for these nVidia FE 1080 Tis and they are just great gaming cards. And my Surface Book 2 has a 1060 and for what it is that's really cool.

I think nVidia is a company that gets "What have you done for me today." and than sometimes goes nuts. We'll get a new round of GPUs and they'll be expensive from both AMD and nVidia. GPP won't figure much into unless it's a close call.
 
I was just reading Kyle's comments on LTT Twitter page about anandtech. Thing is, I was waiting for anandtech to publish a story about GPP and they never did. First mention from them about it was after the program was canceled, which isn't going to get them in any trouble from Nvidia.
 
bigdogchris said:
First mention from them about it was after the program was canceled, which isn't going to get them in any trouble from Nvidia.
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Exactly. Your sig says it all. These sites need first access. I'm hopping that [H] will not be a victim of retaliation when the 11 series is released.

But I like many get banned from this forum routinely and there is no recourse. Because we said the wrong thing to the people who run this place. Fair enough, that's called life.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I'll bet they have their replacement ready- and I'll bet that it'll be fast enough. Watching Nvidia since their inception with the Riva series, there's one thing they do, and that's execute.
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ofcourse. But that still doesn't negate the fact that fanboys were out to get me when I basically said Nvidia likely won't have an update for minium 18 months. We are sitting at 2 years with no update. No doubt they will have good product. But I am not expecting 100% increase over last gen. They even said Pascal did better than their internal estimates. It got insane clock speeds for sure.
 
N4CR said:
Do you have a Ti or a Titan? If not, then you have more choices than just Nvidia.
The pricing and availability is regional. Not everywhere is cheap power and miners. Some countries are already unprofitable to mine in.
The prices you Americans pay now are equivalent to mark up many other countries have to deal with, in normal times without mining..
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Not American. Here in OZ we get priced to whatever the highest world index is regardless of what the locals are doing with the hardware. It's hardly a bit coin mining nation here.

As for my ahem, choice, lol, It's either the half sized gigabyte 6GB 1060 I have now or a full sized power sucking ati that doesn't have the same level of gaming features. So yea, only one choice for me.
 
heatlesssun said:
Indeed, it's kind of hard to see how this program was really going to help nVidia anyway, at least directly. While it made things harder for AMD I don't see how GPP would have led to increased sales for nVidia. So in the end they had to pull the program and take a huge PR hit among the gaming crowd. But as I've said before, I don't think that this program one way or the other makes much difference if nVidia has compelling GPUs and for gaming over the last two years nVidia has been quite dominant especially at the upper end.

The real test of the fallout over this is going to be how the next gen GPUs stack up, If nVidia can replicate its consumer level success of Pascal, much will be forgiven. Any major slip ups and the errors will be compounded by the aftertaste of GPP.
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The real test of the next gen is if amd doesn't continue to do an amd. That is paper releasing a Bugatti and then product launching a hamster wheel. I have all faith amd / ati will release that hamster... I'm over their crap. They have no barriers to finally prove me wrong since after they first released the x64. I stuck by them way too long. Here's looking forward to what intel do in the gpu arena instead.
 
MV75 said:
The real test of the next gen is if amd doesn't continue to do an amd. That is paper releasing a Bugatti and then product launching a hamster wheel. I have all faith amd / ati will release that hamster... I'm over their crap. They have no barriers to finally prove me wrong since after they first released the x64. I stuck by them way too long. Here's looking forward to what intel do in the gpu arena instead.
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AMD hasn't announced anything competitive. They probably have a new marketing outlook, all things considered, and should refrain from advertising features from here on out.

If they target 1080 performance for 250 ish $ in 2019, they'll still be in a good place for price vs performance.
 
Shop_vac said:
AMD hasn't announced anything competitive. They probably have a new marketing outlook, all things considered, and should refrain from advertising features from here on out.

If they target 1080 performance for 250 ish $ in 2019, they'll still be in a good place for price vs performance.
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Yep, that what im looking forward to.. I hope they realease a beast, but if they don't something like you said. I think it wilk happen after crypto crazy prices die out.
 
Shop_vac said:
AMD hasn't announced anything competitive. They probably have a new marketing outlook, all things considered, and should refrain from advertising features from here on out.

If they target 1080 performance for 250 ish $ in 2019, they'll still be in a good place for price vs performance.
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This feels like Groundhog Day....

We are horribly overdue for a new architecture from them though.
 
Kinestron said:
I must be blind and can't find it here but I read over on the AMD subreddit:

4 hours ago NVIDIA told me I would be cut off if I published the GPP story. Since I did that, they will not reply to any of my emails, so I suspect that bridge is burned forever. AMD is obviously happy over it, as you would expect. As for AIBs, we are not into new video card season yet, but I would guess that it is very possible that NVIDIA will forbid them from sampling HardOCP with NV GPU cards. It will be interesting if NVIDIA pushes the AIBs to pull advertising from my site, which I figure will happen too. So all in all, it is likely this will put an end to HardOCP, but I knew that when I published the story. Not crying over spilt milk here, just discussing the facts around the situation.

Is that true that this could cause HardOCP to go under? If so, how do I make a donation through PayPal? I'm currently using Patreon but would like to give a little extra through a one time donation. i've known about HardOCP for years and only recently started reading it, enjoying the articles and the format of the website that makes it easy to browse. Only a few weeks later you broke this story and that captured me as a reader and moreso as a conservative that has been reading more politics over the past couple years it was so refreshing to see someone with integrity where they are willing to take the insults and economic backlash to give consumers information that would otherwise be hidden.
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To me at this point, the gpp is old news.

The bigger story now is Will hardocp Survive, and is there anything we can do to ensure it happens?
 
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Zion Halcyon said:
To me at this point, the gpp is old news.

The bigger story now is Will hardocp Survive, and is there anything we can do to ensure it happens?
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More reliance on patreon, less reliance on advertising. A YouTube channel with quality content. Hardocp has an influx of new followers. There seem to be several ways to adapt.
 
Dayaks said:
This feels like Groundhog Day....

We are horribly overdue for a new architecture from them though.
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AMD never got the kind of control they need for high level abstractions on pc. A lot is their own fault, because Gcn is capable when drivers don't hinder geometry performance and compute is used for most effects.

If the software side improves, a new architecture would be much easier to implement, vs starting with the same disadvantages.
 
Shop_vac said:
More reliance on patreon, less reliance on advertising. A YouTube channel with quality content. Hardocp has an influx of new followers. There seem to be several ways to adapt.
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Wish I could hear it from Kyle himself. He's the one who kind of started this on the AMD subreddit by suspecting hardocp is going to go under.
 
Shop_vac said:
AMD never got the kind of control they need for high level abstractions on pc. A lot is their own fault, because Gcn is capable when drivers don't hinder geometry performance and compute is used for most effects.

If the software side improves, a new architecture would be much easier to implement, vs starting with the same disadvantages.
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GCN needed to be put out to the pasture two gens ago.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
Wish I could hear it from Kyle himself. He's the one who kind of started this on the AMD subreddit by suspecting hardocp is going to go under.
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Kyle suspects his website will go under? Sorry, that reads weird, or is it just me? If it does it does, kyle is a most excellent reviewer and tech journalist, so it would suck though.. unless he has something lined up, bigger better badder, if not his own.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
To me at this point, the gpp is old news.

The bigger story now is Will hardocp Survive, and is there anything we can do to ensure it happens?
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They survived AMD's unofficial "boycott" back when Kyle broke the story about Vega being slow and hot and Raja being screwed. If I remember right AMD stopped sampling them cards and didn't invite them to a press event or two.

This isn't the first time HardOCP has pissed off a major manufacturer. [H] did some investigative journalism and broke a story that was 100% accurate, not some slimey hit piece based on speculation and agendas. If Nvidia tries to black ball [H] over that I think the public backlash would be pretty bad and they'd end up looking like petty assholes. Plus I don't think it would be enough to cripple the site. HardOCP is much more than a GPU review site.
 
MacLeod said:
They survived AMD's unofficial "boycott" back when Kyle broke the story about Vega being slow and hot and Raja being screwed. If I remember right AMD stopped sampling them cards and didn't invite them to a press event or two.

This isn't the first time HardOCP has pissed off a major manufacturer. [H] did some investigative journalism and broke a story that was 100% accurate, not some slimey hit piece based on speculation and agendas. If Nvidia tries to black ball [H] over that I think the public backlash would be pretty bad and they'd end up looking like petty assholes. Plus I don't think it would be enough to cripple the site. HardOCP is much more than a GPU review site.
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Nvidia doesn't react like AMD, and past reporting didn't involve allegations of ethical impropriety (that carries the weight of judicial review ). This went quite a bit beyond calling out a piece of hardware as faulty, or reporting on inner departmental friction.

AMD should be very grateful to Kyle for putting so much on the line. I wonder if they thought through the long term when they decided to run the story through the tech media, instead of other ways.
 
Shop_vac said:
Nvidia doesn't react like AMD, and past reporting didn't involve allegations of ethical impropriety (that carries the weight of judicial review ). This went quite a bit beyond calling out a piece of hardware as faulty, or reporting on inner departmental friction.

AMD should be very grateful to Kyle for putting so much on the line. I wonder if they thought through the long term when they decided to run the story through the tech media, instead of other ways.
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I get what you're saying and you may be right but I don't think it rises to that level. GPP was shady but was not illegal.
 
MacLeod said:
I get what you're saying and you may be right but I don't think it rises to that level. GPP was shady but was not illegal.
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It was called illegal, and most people assume it was. At the end of the day, people associate nvidia with early 2000 era intel.

Kyle said somewhere he was prepared for the worst outcome.
 
Shop_vac said:
It was called illegal, and most people assume it was.
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Most people are stupid. GPP was shady, but from a business perspective it was very slick.

And while you can make the comparison to what Intel did to AMD because it happened in a related industry, the comparison falls far short when the effect of the GPP wasn't to prevent AMD from selling GPUs (like Intel did with their CPUs), or even prevent AMD's GPUs from being labeled for gaming.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
And while you can make the comparison to what Intel did to AMD because it happened in a related industry, the comparison falls far short when the effect of the GPP wasn't to prevent AMD from selling GPUs (like Intel did with their CPUs), or even prevent AMD's GPUs from being labeled for gaming.
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LOL!
 
Shop_vac said:
You sure he hasn't already?
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In a sense you may be right, as he did make that comment in the first place. However, we are all human beings and can give into the moment of emotion.

So I suppose the reason I want to hear from Kyle is to find out if that comment in the AMD subreddit was one of emotion, fearing the worst for the website, or one of near certainty, let us supporters of this site need to be bracing ourselves for.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Most people are stupid. GPP was shady, but from a business perspective it was very slick.

And while you can make the comparison to what Intel did to AMD because it happened in a related industry, the comparison falls far short when the effect of the GPP wasn't to prevent AMD from selling GPUs (like Intel did with their CPUs), or even prevent AMD's GPUs from being labeled for gaming.
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Well public perception is what the legacy of GPP will have. You or I may have differing ideas of what it tried to accomplish; it's still saddled with whatever most people assume it was.

Whether they're humbled or angry, tomorrows nvidia will be a different company.
 
Zion Halcyon said:
In a sense you may be right, as he did make that comment in the first place. However, we are all human beings and can give into the moment of emotion.

So I suppose the reason I want to hear from Kyle is to find out if that comment in the AMD subreddit was one of emotion, fearing the worst for the website, or one of near certainty, let us supporters of this site need to be bracing ourselves for.
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I just assumed it was a hardocp editorial or forum post here.
 
Shop_vac said:
Well public perception is what the legacy of GPP will have. You or I may have differing ideas of what it tried to accomplish; it's still saddled with whatever most people assume it was.

Whether they're humbled or angry, tomorrows nvidia will be a different company.
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Most of the 'public' still has no idea, and of those few that do, even fewer care. And I sincerely doubt Nvidia will be 'a different company', other than that they will have learned that protecting their branding will require a subtler hand in the near future.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Most of the 'public' still has no idea, and of those few that do, even fewer care. And I sincerely doubt Nvidia will be 'a different company', other than that they will have learned that protecting their branding will require a subtler hand in the near future.
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Or a more pro-active approach, like coming to an agreement on an nvidia only branding before it's plastered on everything, instead of after.
 
I was just reading on some other sites an interesting point. Now we'll see just how long Arez lasts and if the other partners continue to re-brand or not.
 
Just look at Reddit's PCMR post about this issue with [H]'s response. Half of the people seems to be comparing Kyle to the devil reincarnate. But that's partly why I like this site. With certain other sites, I've been burnt far too many times with "good" reviews only to find out that it felt like those reviews were missing something.

Love [H] or hate it, at least you know he and this site will be honest with their opinions and findings. As for the future? Only Kyle knows, but we can all hope for the best. I personally would feel a loss of [H] would be a loss for the whole community.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Most people are stupid. GPP was shady, but from a business perspective it was very slick.

And while you can make the comparison to what Intel did to AMD because it happened in a related industry, the comparison falls far short when the effect of the GPP wasn't to prevent AMD from selling GPUs (like Intel did with their CPUs), or even prevent AMD's GPUs from being labeled for gaming.
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What was the point of the gpp?
 
Nytegard said:
Just look at Reddit's PCMR post about this issue with [H]'s response. Half of the people seems to be comparing Kyle to the devil reincarnate. But that's partly why I like this site. With certain other sites, I've been burnt far too many times with "good" reviews only to find out that it felt like those reviews were missing something.

Love [H] or hate it, at least you know he and this site will be honest with their opinions and findings. As for the future? Only Kyle knows, but we can all hope for the best. I personally would feel a loss of [H] would be a loss for the whole community.
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People are stupid. Clearly they don't read H since it doens't get a billion hits like LTT and they think they know the issue well enough to comment. I used to think Kyle was mean dude lol, but the more I saw his work the more I realized the guy follows the truth and says it like it is. He is as honest as they come without taking sides.

Kyle is the only dude that does investigative work. While all the review sites only do tech shows and count those dollars. Honestly I started appreciating H and it became my #1 site to come to every day not because of reviews since I barely even game anymore but for the work he has done and the inside news he brings.

Like polaris being a hot mess, Raja's love for intel lol, Intel using Radeon chips. How big of a cluster fuck RTG was in and then GPP.

When all that shit came out to be true. I was like RESPECT brother! lol. Kyle has the right to be pissed off at LTT and others. So next time they actually don't wait to see how public reacts to take sides. Kyle has made me question everyone else, why doesn't anyone else eve have the balls to do some digging on their own and write about it or even follow up to Kyle's article. Honestly after Kyle wrote the article I was shocked how no one was talking about it until we saw Asus, Gigabyte and MSI making moves and public opinion was turning negative.

I am sure each one of them knew Nvidia was in the wrong here but they were too worried about losing out on sponsorship and pissing Nvidia off then confirming the story.
 
NKD said:
People are stupid. Clearly they don't read H since it doens't get a billion hits like LTT and they think they know the issue well enough to comment. I used to think Kyle was mean dude lol, but the more I saw his work the more I realized the guy follows the truth and says it like it is. He is as honest as they come without taking sides.

Kyle is the only dude that does investigative work. While all the review sites only do tech shows and count those dollars. Honestly I started appreciating H and it became my #1 site to come to every day not because of reviews since I barely even game anymore but for the work he has done and the inside news he brings.

Like polaris being a hot mess, Raja's love for intel lol, Intel using Radeon chips. How big of a cluster fuck RTG was in and then GPP.

When all that shit came out to be true. I was like RESPECT brother! lol. Kyle has the right to be pissed off at LTT and others. So next time they actually don't wait to see how public reacts to take sides. Kyle has made me question everyone else, why doesn't anyone else eve have the balls to do some digging on their own and write about it or even follow up to Kyle's article. Honestly after Kyle wrote the article I was shocked how no one was talking about it until we saw Asus, Gigabyte and MSI making moves and public opinion was turning negative.

I am sure each one of them knew Nvidia was in the wrong here but they were too worried about losing out on sponsorship and pissing Nvidia off then confirming the story.
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Yeah, I'll never forget back in the day when Kyle, Anand, and I think Tom (correct me if I'm wrong) collaborated with their samples to discover the P3 1.1+ghz chip faults. And had a top tier product line pulled back from the biggest CPU maker in the world.

It kind of feel like Kyle is the only one left on the field from those days, I hugely miss Anand being in the industry personally and those passionate folk who just want to know things for the sake of knowing them... they are kind of a disappearing breed. A few newer tech channels have piqued my interest, but it kind of feels that the whole need to develop a camera-facing persona and the celebrity that entails it can be toxic in the long run.

I currently have a paltry $5 a month going towards [H] on my primary Patreon account and another $2 I think on my junkmail account I started with orignally before getting annoyed at missing early-content alerts.
 
bigdogchris said:
I like the 4 videos that Gamers Nexus did covering GPP. I thought it was very fair coverage.
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There is a difference between talking about it in a video for a short period and writing a full blown article after investigating the issue and giving the issue a voice! Speaking out loud about it if you see its a misguided move on nvidia's part. Earliest Gamers Nexus talked about it is late march almost 3 weeks after H released the article and that wasn't even true video dedicated to it. It was his ask him anything session so someone asked about GPP in the questions.

I am not saying everyone is corrupt but no one really gave this issue further voice right away. It was when everything started happening as Kyle reported everyone started talking about it. What we are talking about is speaking out like Kyle does without fear of retaliation from anyone.

Kyle is like this: I lose it I lose it but I will bring voice to people. That is what counts. He is the only one that has been doing insider stories when everyone fears of losing out.
 
NKD said:
There is a difference between talking about it in a video for a short period and writing a full blown article after investigating the issue and giving the issue a voice! Speaking out loud about it if you see its a misguided move on nvidia's part. Earliest Gamers Nexus talked about it is late march almost 3 weeks after H released the article and that wasn't even true video dedicated to it. It was his ask him anything session so someone asked about GPP in the questions.

I am not saying everyone is corrupt but no one really gave this issue further voice right away. It was when everything started happening as Kyle reported everyone started talking about it. What we are talking about is speaking out like Kyle does without fear of retaliation from anyone.

Kyle is like this: I lose it I lose it but I will bring voice to people. That is what counts. He is the only one that has been doing insider stories when everyone fears of losing out.
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His first video about it was March 12th, 4 days after the article here, which is around the time most other tech sites started picking up on it.

Additionally, I'm inferring from your post, possibly incorrectly, that you believe I am giving GN credit for something more than I stated. I said he covered it on 4 occasions, 3 of which it was the first or only topic, which was a criticism that was made earlier of some other sites. He also did mention he made a lot of contacts in the industry to get more information, which he covered in at least 2 videos.
 
MacLeod said:
They survived AMD's unofficial "boycott" back when Kyle broke the story about Vega being slow and hot and Raja being screwed. If I remember right AMD stopped sampling them cards and didn't invite them to a press event or two.
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Being boycotted by the player with less than 30% of a market is a far different scenario than being boycotted by the player with more than 70%. It will sting a lot more.


MacLeod said:
This isn't the first time HardOCP has pissed off a major manufacturer. [H] did some investigative journalism and broke a story that was 100% accurate, not some slimey hit piece based on speculation and agendas. If Nvidia tries to black ball [H] over that I think the public backlash would be pretty bad and they'd end up looking like petty assholes. Plus I don't think it would be enough to cripple the site. HardOCP is much more than a GPU review site.
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My next build is going to be Threadripper instead of Intel. I have no problem changing brands (my current lineup is Intel/nVidia but that is the happenstance of what performance was like when the hardware was purchased). If Kyle does't get to review nVidia products on release, I won't be buying an nVidia product on release. If nVidia somehow makes it so Kyle doesn't get to review nVidia hardware, I won't be buying it. It's as simple as that.
 
bigdogchris said:
His first video about it was March 12th, 4 days after the article here, which is around the time most other tech sites started picking up on it.

Additionally, I'm inferring from your post, possibly incorrectly, that you believe I am giving GN credit for something more than I stated. I said he covered it on 4 occasions, 3 of which it was the first or only topic, which was a criticism that was made earlier of some other sites. He also did mention he made a lot of contacts in the industry to get more information, which he covered in at least 2 videos.
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I searched gamer nexus gpp vidoes on youtube. I just went by the top 4 that had GPP in the title. As to when he actually spoke I am not sure because I don't know which video he talked about GPP In other than the ones titled. If he spoke about GPP without it being titled GPP than its hard to tell.

I actually wasn't inferring anything. I absolutely don't believe anyone did any reporting with any backbone than kyle. It was a half ass effort even if they tried.
 
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