Former Pentagon X-Files Chief: Existence of UFOs “Proved beyond Reasonable Doubt”

MrGuvernment said:
You don't believe in anything you can not touch, feel smell et cetera, but in GOD you trust?...i'm confused...
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I believe he was talking about a level of trust. If there is something you distrust, you want to examine the evidence first before believing it. He trusts in GOD and there must be a reason for that. In a court of law, both physical evidence and witness testimony are used to determine the outcome of a case. There can be evidence of GOD that is not physical. However, we are talking UFO's here. If it can be observed and filmed, the object that was filmed should in some way be verifiable before it is believed. The footage could be a hoax.
 
ManofGod said:
Faith in the One True GOD and who he says He is. Please, go learn what faith actually is first, which is not some blind, unknowing, stumbling in the dark thing. *Shrug* My people, as you put us, know Christ because he first loved us.


The evidence is in creation itself, where we can actually see and feel what He has done and is evidence of who GOD is. Any evidence of those "Aliens" you speak of? Irrefutable evidence?
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You know, for a bit I was thinking I might get something of substance from you but I was mistaken.
 
bugleyman said:
I do not think your assumptions about the similarities of nearby life valid (or statistical). We don't know whether life originated on Earth or caught a ride. We don't know when these nearby planets may have undergone ELAs. In short, we just don't know.

Besides, I didn't the odds of encountering extra terrestrial life it was zero. I just pointed out that the argument "surely other life exists someplace in the universe" isn't particularly relevant when trying to argue that UFOs are alien visitors.
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I am sorry, but what assumptions about the similarities of nearby life? I am going based of the scientific theories out there about the growth of the Universe and the periods where life was most apt to develop. It is completely based off statistics. If you read everything I said, I mentioned that the chances are astronomically small, mainly due to the enormous amount of variables. My point is that the current best guesses suggest the most apt time for life to develop was during certain parts of the Universe expanding, and that Solar Systems in the same arc as Sol would have the best chance of developing life at overlapping intervals.

And my first question pointed to the fact that you made a statement based purely on conjecture. How does it not follow that if aliens exist they would not want to explore or capture information about Earth? We exist and we very much want to send out probes, ships, and potentially people to explore other Solar Systems and planets. What reasoning do you have that aliens would not wish to do the same? My explanation of the possibility of nearby life was in direct correlation to that, using the already stated information I had given prior about our own missions to other Solar Systems. Perhaps it would have been more clear if I had directly linked my statement to that.

So more specifically my logic follows that if there exists planets with the same initial conditions as Earth in the same expanding arc of the Universe, that there could potentially exist other alien life that overlaps with our current period of life such that they have technology which enabled them to travel here to study us. Or it also logically follows that there may exist conditions closer to the center of the universe such that there was other alien life that progressed to a level of technology that allowed them to send out missions to explore other planets of which Earth is one. Both conditions could also exist. There is nothing that completely rules it out as you seem to suggest by saying, "It does not follow" which means it is not logically viable. I find that to be untrue. What I do find to be true is that it seems statistically unlikely given the information we currently have but not impossible.

Personally I do not believe the UFOs are from alien life, I believe there are far more realistic theories about what the UFOs are, or may be.
 
jardows said:
No, we just claim to know what God has revealed to us in the Bible, and we believe that it is true. There is much that was not revealed, and for that, we make no exclusive claims of knowledge.
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Well it is revealed in the bible how god created humans the earth and the universe, so either you do believe it to be true or you don't. You can't be in between. That's what I meant when I referred to ala-carte christians. If you're not all in, then you're fooling yourself and others for what? Because you want to belong in the club? You don't claim knowledge then why would many christians want creationism to be taught as fact in science class? And why it has become an issue in some schools that it is impossible to teach evolution because the indoctrinated kids would freak out? As ignorant as young earth creationist are at least they're consistent, they don't say, well it's stupid that the earth was created 5000 years ago, we ignore that, but the rest of it still stands!
Much to unravel from this paragraph, but let's start with the first statement. The Bible is not written as a text book, a reference book, or a law book. It was written so we may know God, and know what He expects of us. That is why not every "letter of the bible" is taken as law. We don't "pick and choose," we look at the whole picture. When Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, he replied "love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and the second greatest command is love your neighbor as yourself. Upon these two hang all the law and the prophets."
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How do you know, that it wasn't intended to be any of those things? A man in a robe told you? How does he know? Right, no way he does, unless he has sunday tea with god himself. No, it is not taken as law, because you know it to be stupid, so you try to rationalize it by "well it's not meant like that, but only these parts, and those bits are really not important, and only meant as a thought exercise, he doesn't really mean it" It is perfectly obvious from outside that this is a lame excuse for those who want to believe regardless of the fact that 90% of the book is completely outdated and has no bearing on life in current times. Why is it outdated? Because it is a book or rather collection of writings by humans most of whom lived during the bronze age, and this is their best understanding or theories on how the world works. And it is their attempt to show guidance and give some meaning to the menial life of humans who lived then. It is an important historical document, but it shouldn't be used as any kind of template of living, and certainly not as a description of the workings of the physical universe.
I will agree this is a weak argument, but it is something to consider, that the world view adhered by these mass murderers allowed them to justify their actions. Also, when you study "religious wars" you will find that they were actually political wars, done in the name of religion, but not actually inspired by religion.
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Well if jihad is not motivated by religion then I don't know what. There are always political manipulations in war, but that doesn't mean that many of whom waged religious war didn't believe that they're actually doing god's work. In the name of god. Just think of the witch hunts. It started out to be religiously motivated, then they began to point the finger to anyone they didn't fancy. Religion is often used as an excuse to get rid of enemies, and that's exactly the problem. Had we no longer signed up to faith, nobody could use it as justification of their actions. Although thankfully, it is hard to do so nowadays, because claiming "god said so" in a court of law is a clear set up for "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense. But even then it is a way for criminals to avoid sentencing in some cases. Like when they claim to have found god while in prison, bullshit, what you found is an excuse to get gullible people to give you an early release.
Considering that there are many well-reasoned individuals who have solid faith in God, and even the God of the Bible, you might want to consider your rationale a bit more. I suggest you study on C.S. Lewis's conversion from Atheism to Christianity, as well as the more contemporary Lee Strobel's book The Case for Christ. I have no expectations that these will persuade you to become a Christian, but perhaps can help you understand better that faith in God and being a Christian is not unreasonable or unrational.
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I'm very familiar with the "oh but some intelligent people also believed in god" defense. And it's not convincing. If you grown up constantly being reinforced by your parents and everybody in your community about their religion. Then it becomes the norm, and you can go on to become a physicist or a medical doctor, but it will be really difficult to convince you to give up your beliefs. As long as you don't use faith to perform your surgeries it won't affect your job. I've seen plenty of people who were well reasoned when it comes to a variety of topics, but they went into complete meltdown mode when religion came up. So called intelligent believers regurgitate the same talking points as used by the not so educated ones. So far I've never heard a reasonable rational argument for being religious.
 
M76 said:
Well it is revealed in the bible how god created humans the earth and the universe...
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Let's break this down again. I don't know every detail. I believe that God created the world. How, exactly did it happen? I don't know. There a many details that are left out. From those details left out, I leave room for discussion of various possibilities. So your assumption of what I believe is narrow, and incorrect.

M76 said:
How do you know, that it wasn't intended to be any of those things? A man in a robe told you? How does he know?....
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I am "the man in the robe." Actually, I don't wear a robe, I wear a suit jacket. I have a degree in Biblical studies, and have spent the last fourteen years or so studying so that I can weekly present the material of the Bible in an applicable way to those willing to listen. And while technology has changed, human behavior hasn't. If you actually study history, you will find that humans today are pretty much the same as they were 1000, 2000, 3000, even 4000 years ago.

And, I won't let this ignorant statement slide
Most of them lived in the bronze age
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Most of the writers of the Bible lived during the Iron age or later. Before you call me ignorant and willfully blind, do some basic research before placing your attacks.

M76 said:
Well if jihad is not motivated by religion then I don't know what.
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I intentionally left this out, because Islam is the only major religion that specifically teaches it's adherents to wage physical war against all who do not believe. And I'll stop you from making another ignorant statement - the passages in the Bible where God told the Hebrew nation to wipe out certain inhabitants was the exception, not the rule, with very limited scope. The explanation as to why this is there is well beyond the scope of a forum post.

M76 said:
I'm very familiar with the "oh but some intelligent people also believed in god" defense. And it's not convincing... So far I've never heard a reasonable rational argument for being religious.
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You apparently did not read what I wrote. I did not say "intelligent people have believed in god." I stated two instances of avowed Atheists who using rational means, came to become Christians. The point being that there is ration and reason behind faith. The fact that you completely ignored what I was saying and refuse to even consider the possibility of ration and reason in faith, shows you to be the one acting irrationally and unreasonably.

But what does this all have to do with UFO's? I think I've forgotten.
 
reaper12 said:
Very good post!! Because I was going to mention that in mine about the various translations but forgot, glad somebody brought it up.
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Except that he is incorrect in his assumptions of the Bible and his assumptions that it cannot be verified. If you all want to have a conversation about it, I am more than willing to have a private conversation about it. However, the first gospel was not written in 62AD and the Old Testament is factual, actual things that actually happened.
 
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ManofGod said:
and the Old Testament is factual, actual things that actually happened.
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Eh, I'm sure some of it is, but certainly not all of it. Just one example off of the top of my head is that there is little to no evidence of "Moses" and leading 600000 Israelite people out of Egypt.
 
ManofGod said:
Except that he is incorrect in his assumptions of the Bible and his assumptions that it cannot be verified. If you all want to have a conversation about it, I am more than willing to have a private conversation about it. However, the first gospel was not written in 62AD and the Old Testament is factual, actual things that actually happened.
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You are right the first Gospel wasn't written in 62AD, the Letters of St Paul were around that time, the rest of the New Testament came later, somewhere between 70AD and 150AD and mostly written by anonymous authors. And the Old Testament is factual? Oh come on, yeah, sure there some things that actually happened. But they have been embellished and exaggerated into stories to fit a narrative. That our God is great and your God isn't.
 
reaper12 said:
And the Old Testament is factual? Oh come on, yeah, sure there some things that actually happened. But they have been embellished and exaggerated into stories to fit a narrative. That our God is great and your God isn't.
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Yeah, the old testament... lol. God kills 370k people directly and orders another 1.8 million people murdered. Let's not forget about bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 and Psalms 137:9)
 
reaper12 said:
You are right the first Gospel wasn't written in 62AD, the Letters of St Paul were around that time, the rest of the New Testament came later, somewhere between 70AD and 150AD and mostly written by anonymous authors. And the Old Testament is factual? Oh come on, yeah, sure there some things that actually happened. But they have been embellished and exaggerated into stories to fit a narrative. That our God is great and your God isn't.
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The new Testament books were not written by anonymous authors. In fact, except for the Book of Hebrews, all the other books are tied directly to a known author. And no, the Old Testament is 100% accurate and what has actually occurred. But, every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.

Edit: In fact, most of the Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, which was far before 150AD and most definitely before 70AD. Dude, you are not speaking to someone who has no knowledge or discernment of the Word and therefore, you may want to study it out a bit more and see how things really were.

Honestly though, allthough there are no aliens of any kind, I am not the least bit surprised that those who claim there are seem to think they would be just like us or similar to us.
 
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ManofGod said:
And no, the Old Testament is 100% accurate and what has actually occurred.
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This... this right here is called an opinion. You can't prove that. I'm sorry, you may be entitled to your own opinion, but your faith doesn't entitle you to your own set of facts. If you really think it does, you're insane.
 
theplaidfad said:
This... this right here is called an opinion. You can't prove that. I'm sorry, you may be entitled to your own opinion, but your faith doesn't entitle you to your own set of facts. If you really think it does, you're insane.
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No, this, this right here that you call an opinion is actually fact but hey, that is fine, that is the way you tihnk. Also, faith is not some blind, unknowing, in the dark stumbling that just because someone says it, it is. But, that is no surprise since: 1 Corinthiasn 1:18: For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Or: 1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Edit: As I mentioned earlier, I am more than happy to have a private conversation if for no other reason than to allow this thread to get back on topic.
 
ManofGod said:
Also, faith is not some blind, unknowing, in the dark stumbling that just because someone says it, it is.
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Oh? Well then try this for me. Hold out both of your hands. Put your faith in one, and then take a big shit in the other. Tell me which hand fills up first.
 
theplaidfad said:
Oh? Well then try this for me. Hold out both of your hands. Put your faith in one, and then take a big shit in the other. Tell me which hand fills up first.
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Which would be true, if faith is as you define it. However, true faith is trust in who God is, not in what we think He is. It is, therefore, I have faith, not, I have faith and therefore, it is.
 
Just one more time for the record... you're claiming that because you have faith, then everything in the bible is fact. Is this correct?
 
Just because I look at an apple and claim it to be an orange doesn't make it true, just as you claiming the old testament is 100% fact doesn't make it true. Plenty of sources based on verifiable fact that can prove you wrong on that.

Like I said, that's an opinion you have there, not fact. You're entitled to believe that the old testament is 100% factual, but you're not entitled to claim your faith as basis to dispute the real facts that are there for all to see. Keep your blinders on, it's the only thing that will serve to further your belief.

I grew up in the church... when my mind was young and impressionable, I believed in God for a while. Then I grew up and was able to rationalize for myself what's fact and what's fiction. Some people choose to spend their life in the dark, as apparently you have chosen to do.
 
Maybe this is a back-door method of trying to ease into the news of our contacting the Satan fuck.

Aliens are a lot easier to get the public to swallow than demons and their leader.
 
ManofGod said:
The new Testament books were not written by anonymous authors. In fact, except for the Book of Hebrews, all the other books are tied directly to a known author. And no, the Old Testament is 100% accurate and what has actually occurred. But, every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.

Edit: In fact, most of the Epistles were written by the Apostle Paul, which was far before 150AD and most definitely before 70AD. Dude, you are not speaking to someone who has no knowledge or discernment of the Word and therefore, you may want to study it out a bit more and see how things really were.
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Don't dude me, You should take up your arguments with the Vatican. St Paul's writings were the first part of the New Testament put together and that was around 62AD. The rest of the New testament was written over the next 50-100 years. It took until the fourth century for it to become the canon and that was after much fighting about it. And yes, the gospels are anonymous.

And you see, your answers quoting from the Bible, don't actually help your argument, they make you sound irrational.

And no, even according to the Vatican, the Old Testament isn't 100% accurate.
 
reaper12 said:
And no, even according to the Vatican, the Old Testament isn't 100% accurate.
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It doesn't take the Vatican to claim the old testament isn't 100% accurate. A layman can do it.

Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later.

First book of the Bible alone, full of stupidity, or are these the "alternative facts" I've been hearing about in the news lately.
 
Can I just chime in to say wow, and that this thread surprises even me. :eek:

Carry on. :D
 
theplaidfad said:
It doesn't take the Vatican to claim the old testament isn't 100% accurate. A layman can do it.

Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later.

First book of the Bible alone, full of stupidity, or are these the "alternative facts" I've been hearing about in the news lately.
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Nope, Chapter one is a detailed account of the 6 days of creation, chapter two is a more zoomed in account of the creation of Man. They are not chronological.
 
reaper12 said:
Don't dude me, You should take up your arguments with the Vatican. St Paul's writings were the first part of the New Testament put together and that was around 62AD. The rest of the New testament was written over the next 50-100 years. It took until the fourth century for it to become the canon and that was after much fighting about it. And yes, the gospels are anonymous.

And you see, your answers quoting from the Bible, don't actually help your argument, they make you sound irrational.

And no, even according to the Vatican, the Old Testament isn't 100% accurate.
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The fact that I sound irrational too you is no skin off my back. *Shrug* The quoted scripture even points out with exact perspective what you just said about my quoting scripture.
 
What a shit thread this turned into, like most religious discussions.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
What a shit thread this turned into, like most religious discussions.
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Well, we can always talk about aliens that do not exist. :D Personally, I think any UFO is either fake or technology that we are just not aware of. Afterall, we had already produced anti gravity in the 1950's.
 
ManofGod said:
Nope, Chapter one is a detailed account of the 6 days of creation, chapter two is a more zoomed in account of the creation of Man. They are not chronological.
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The simple fact that you ignore the obvious contradictions I pointed out and respond in a completely illogical manner with non-answers tells me all i need to know about your delusional relationship with Christianity.

I'm done arguing. The burden of proof is on you. Of course if there were ever any chance of that happening, it would have happened in the 2000 years your type has had to prove it.
 
Everything that ManOfGod has said in this thread about Christianity and the Bible is exactly what is driving more and more people away from the church. Back in the day when the church was the social hub of a given town or community, it was hard for individuals with logical questions about doctrine and dogma to find answers without having to deal with the nonsense ManOfGod just spewed. Eventually, those individuals would either stop questioning because they had finally been thoroughly indoctrinated, or shamed into submission. The Internet has allowed for tens of millions of these individuals to find others with similar questions, and realize we are not alone and will not be silenced by those with faith throwing Bible verses at you in some vain attempt to validate their own beliefs through silencing your's. How do they typically respond? By throwing more scripture at you, claiming they are going to take the high ground in some fashion, or simply check out of the conversation.

As others have stated, you can't have a rational or logical argument with someone who on one hand claims that the entire Old Testament is completely factual, but on the other hand, claims that certain things are not chronological (or just avoids the clear inconsistencies). When their argument begins and ends with "the Bible is a perfect historical document" despite what the Vatican itself says about it, you might as well stop talking to that individual. A great physics professor I once had would refer to these diehard believers as "Muppets." They run around thinking they have all the answers from one book, but in reality, they are clueless and have no real desire to discover deeper truths. They checked their ability to rationally think, reason, and discern at the door, and should rightfully give their brains back to their Creator since they have no need for it.

A pity.
 
Neslepax said:
been thoroughly indoctrinated, or shamed into submission
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You cannot shame anyone into a relationship with Christ nor indoctrinate anyone into a relationship with Christ. Either you know Him or you do not, there is no in between. I will not be afraid to share the truth and let people know about who Christ is and the salvation He has provided, I am not going to sugarcoat it or lie about it.

A Christian is someone who is spiritually Born Again. Study the scriptures and history, being called a Christian was actually an insult, not a compliment. That said, I do need to have more real desire to dig deeper into the truths of Gods Word, on that, I would agree. Take the time to actually read and study Genesis 1 and 2, you will find that I am correct in what I was saying about them.
 
This thread was hijacked...
latest
 
ManofGod said:
You cannot shame anyone into a relationship with Christ nor indoctrinate anyone into a relationship with Christ.
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Except for the 99% of children out there? Please, all religion is based off indoctrination. Take a secular person that was raised with no religion and tell them there's an invisible man in the sky that watches all you do and that all the living creatures were saved on a boat a few thousand years ago and you'll burn forever AFTER you're dead if do some things like mix linen's. They'd laugh in your face and think you were a fucking lunatic. But you and I just call that Christianity.
 
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I'm pretty sure that manogod is a striaght up anti christian agent. I grew up in the church and still do believe in a higher power. but the bible is full of baloney, and mog comes across as the worst of humanity.
 
Mut1ny said:
Except for the 99% of children out there? Please, all religion is based off indoctrination. Take a secular person that was raised with no religion and tell them there's an invisible man in the sky that watches all you do and that all the living creatures were saved on a boat a few thousand years ago and you'll burn forever AFTER you're dead if do some things like mix linen's. They'd laugh in your face and think you were a fucking lunatic. But you and I just call that Christianity.
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Except that Christianity is not a religion and there is no benefit to "indoctrinating" someone when Christ desires a relationship with us. Oh, and if someone laughs in my face and calls me a lunatic, I am cool with that. So no, there is no indoctrination and also, God is not a man in the sky because, after all, God is not a man that He should lie, or the son of man that he should change his mind.

When you know Christ, you want to let people know about Him and that they can know Him too, personally. Church is of little value to those who do not know him, just as going to class for nuclear theory is useless for those who are going to be dentist.
 
ManofGod said:
Except that Christianity is not a religion and there is no benefit to "indoctrinating" someone when Christ desires a relationship with us.
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Either you're dumb or you don't know what religion is. Your first sentence is demonstrously incorrect. I don't care how you try to spin it and try to use technicalities, Christianity sure as shit is a religion, it's one of the largest in the world. If it's not then you won't mind if we take away no tax status from all Christian CHURCHES, right? Just because the church wants to try and change it to "relationship" instead of "religion" to remove stigma doesn't mean it'll work or that it's right.

What? You want to quote some scripture from the Bible that says "it's a relationship with Christ" to try and back your point up? Why don't you also quote all the stuff from the Bible YOU DON'T WANT TO BELIEVE IN AND DON'T FOLLOW? That's what I fucking thought.

And yes, it is indoctrination. That's exactly what religion is, all of it.

Oh, and if someone laughs in my face and calls me a lunatic, I am cool with that.
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Why? Shouldn't you look into why you're a lunatic? I mean, you're claiming Christianity isn't a religion so something is obviously a little screwy with ya. I certainly wouldn't be OK with people thinking I'm crazy. That's what crazy people do.

So no, there is no indoctrination and also, God is not a man in the sky because, after all, God is not a man that He should lie, or the son of man that he should change his mind.
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And it was here that I can see you're clearly trolling. No one takes what's said in obvious sarcasm/hyperbole and tries to defend it unless they're just full of shit.

When you know Christ, you want to let people know about Him and that they can know Him too, personally. Church is of little value to those who do not know him, just as going to class for nuclear theory is useless for those who are going to be dentist.
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I know Christ. I know a lot of other made up holymen and gods just like him as well. Like all the ones before Jesus (who probably wasn't even a real person, let alone GOD) and all the ones after. Always with the "if you want him he'll reveal himself to you" cop-out crap. Yeah, either you are a lunatic or you're trolling or you're one of the worst "Christians" I've met.
 
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My problem with UFO's is that...OK...we know they exist. We know that there's flying objects that we can't quite identify.

So now that we have that cleared and out of the way now I want to know...what are they?

See, I use to believe that UFO's instantly = aliens. Then I got older, wiser, and realized that, eh, some might be but there's a good chance it's just some secret government craft. Look up the TR-3B...I've seen that with my own eyes, my mom did as well. So yeah, it seems that as weird and amazing as the TR-3B might be it's most likely a government craft.

This got me thinking about the 22 trillion the DOD has spent on "unknowns" and all the top Top TOP secret stuff out there and I wouldn't find it odd or weird at all that UFO's are just us with advanced secret underground tech.

Plus, add to the fact that it seems, at least to my research, how MOST...a VAST majority...of UFO sightings happened AFTER Roswell...after we WOULD have had whatever unknown top-secret they-were-past-us-technologically Nazi shit we would have had at this point.

So yeah, UFO's exist...we know that...I just think at this point in my life they're way less "extraterrestrial" and way more "human" than we think.

Especially considering how WE haven't been contacted. All these alien craft all over the place all the time...yet not a single one has made contact. Traveled billions of miles, trillions, just to what...visit us and leave without saying anything?

I don't know...I guess at 31 this is the crossroad I'm at. I believe UFO's. I believe there are flying objects that are unknown...to us. Unknown to most in the government...but not all. Someone somewhere knows what all this is or else there'd be a lot more going into it. You actually believe that UFO's exist and the US government doesn't care? Puts a few million a year into it? Please. They know, somewhere along the ranks.

Thoughts? If UFO's do actually exist...what are the actual possibilities and probabilities that they're ACTUALLY alien? I'm starting to think that possibility is a big fat ZERO.
 
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Epic| said:
It's sad to see mental illness. You feel bad for the person.
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Well, that's indoctrination for you. Something religious people don't believe in. I wonder why...couldn't be perhaps because it makes them realize they themselves have been doped since childhood. Studies show that those that are religious have less brain activity in the areas that control reason and logic. Makes sense considering the lack of reason and logic from those that are religious.

BUT OH NO! If we go AGAINST religion YOU AND I clearly don't want to "discuss" it fairly...people like you and I are just trolls that "don't get it"...yeah because me being anti-religious has nothing to do with me being logical and I've already HAD these tame and fair "discussions" that religious people always WANT but never want to PARTICIPATE in...well until they start losing the obviously not winnable argument.

Religious people = Believe in the magical sky man because I was raised to believe it since birth! I'm right because this book and my feelings say so! They're always right and people like me just never understand it despite the fact I believed in God and Jesus until I was 18-19. But yet, I don't get it or understand it at all.

Did you know that MOST religious people care about their beliefs and want to know if they're true or not so they've obviously done more research and have more evidence than me...duh. It's the evidence and proof as to why there's so many religious people. Duh. /s

Non-religious people = Believes in stuff we can see and that has proof and data. Doesn't believe in stuff just because they were raised with it. But we're wrong and closed minded.

Yeah...
 
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Mut1ny said:
Either you're dumb or you don't know what religion is. Your first sentence is demonstrously incorrect.
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Hey, thanks for the insult, I needed that. :D Christianity is not a religion but, a relationship with the One True and Living God. The fact that people coop and definition, redefine it and use it as their own does not change the facts. I for one hate religion except for that which states helping orphans and widows in their distress and keeping ones self unspotted from the world. Also, the fact that you believed in Jesus does not demonstrate that you had a relationship with Him.

Oh well, guess I have a mental illness for having an actual relationship with the One True and Living God, Jesus the Christ. :) So, where exactly is the hatred coming from again?

And no, despite the fact that I am not agreeing with you, I am not a troll nor trolling. Guess you are going to think what you are going to think then. Perhaps you need to start thinking outside the 4 borders of the USA.

Or, just because I am in a garage, does that make me a Chevy?

"Religious people = Believe in the magical sky man because I was raised to believe it since birth! I'm right because this book and my feelings say so! They're always right and people like me just never understand it despite the fact I believed in God and Jesus until I was 18-19. But yet, I don't get it or understand it at all."

Yep, religious people, those who do not know Christ, would go according to their feelings which, by the way, have nothing to do with it. Also, believing in someone and knowing someone are not the same thing. After all, I believe in you mother and father but, I do not know them at all. Basic logic which requires the desire to actually think through things, instead of responding emotionally.

Edit: Yeah, this pretty much where I figure the thread is going to end and get locked. Attacking the forum poster is not allowed and also, I have personally attempted to get this thread back on topic but, hey, you guys would have none of it. :D
 
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ManofGod said:
Hey, thanks for the insult, I needed that.
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Ya need something and no, it wasn't an insult. It was a statement. I didn't state that you were in fact dumb, I just simply implied that you might be. Can I say you're insulting me by questioning my intelligence and knowledge on the matter of religion?

As to the rest of your post you need to re-read my last two posts here. You basically did and said everything I said you would (or have already done).

If you aren't a troll then YOU need to open your mind and go read more about the history and evidence of religion that doesn't directly correlate in a positive manner with your indoctrinated pre-determined religious beliefs.
 
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