Opinion Piece on Linux Marketshare

heatlesssun said:

I guess we'll see. It seems like Windows 10 isn't having much trouble with gamers overall while Linux, well, again, content. Just picked up Batman VR and played about halfway through that. I just not having enough problems with 10, as in any really, to justify giving up something like that experience.

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Oh I know that Windows will give me more games to choose from and that many that are on Linux and Windows will run better on Windows than on Linux. My eyes are wide open.

VR isn't even on my radar at the moment. I live pay cheque to pay cheque for probably the next 3-4 years and even saving up for a better GPU is about 8 months away let alone a VR setup. Hopefully one day I will have VR but for the moment I would just settle for being able to get Vega or it's Nvidia equivalent when they are out. I had an RX 480 until earlier this year when I had to sell it to pay bills so I'm left with a much worse system.

I want to be able to use Windows for my gaming needs but what I want out of an OS and what Microsoft is giving me are too far apart and is only growing farther apart. If anything I wish I could just not hate 10 as much as I do so I could be ignorantly blissfull but it isn't who I am.

heatlesssun said:

Yes, your focus is on the OS. People who spend lots of money to play games are clearly much more focused on gaming the OS for that purpose is irrelevant.

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Everyone's focus is on the OS, it's the GUI they use to interact with the machine they're using, the only thing that changes is the individuals personal preference regarding that GUI and it's operation.

Gaming is but one niche use of a PC, if someone prefers Linux due to the issues regarding Windows 10 and Microsoft's decisions as late and they can play most of the games they prefer under Linux, than for them Linux is not an issue. The use of the PC as a gaming device still factors into the individuals usage case and decision making process, they simply don't want to use Windows due to it's inherent issues as late and Linux suits their needs better than the alternative.

I think the bigger issue here is you have an assumption in your head of what justifies an individual to be classed as a gamer - And it's flatly incorrect. Furthermore you seem to have some assumption that gamers are ignorant to their choice of OS for some obscure reason.

Simmonz said:

Oh I know that Windows will give me more games to choose from and that many that are on Linux and Windows will run better on Windows than on Linux. My eyes are wide open.

VR isn't even on my radar at the moment. I live pay cheque to pay cheque for probably the next 3-4 years and even saving up for a better GPU is about 8 months away let alone a VR setup. Hopefully one day I will have VR but for the moment I would just settle for being able to get Vega or it's Nvidia equivalent when they are out. I had an RX 480 until earlier this year when I had to sell it to pay bills so I'm left with a much worse system.

I want to be able to use Windows for my gaming needs but what I want out of an OS and what Microsoft is giving me are too far apart and is only growing farther apart. If anything I wish I could just not hate 10 as much as I do so I could be ignorantly blissfull but it isn't who I am.

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After using Linux, it would take one hell of an overhaul of the OS for me to even consider returning to Windows. Based on MS's decisions as late, the chances of that happening are nada. Gaming still factors into my choice of OS, but I prefer the GUI and operation of my chosen Linux distro.

heatlesssun said:

If you really think that that kind of game play is what console/PC gamers would be satisfied with, yeah, you don't really game. Really, mobile fight games are a dime a dozen, there's nothing cross-platform shattering about this.

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You know I wasn't pointing to one stupid fight game heatle. The money in gaming isn't in the high end PC market... and just like Consoles dragged down the quality of PC gaming for years. Mobile is about to start doing the same. PC developers have been closing doors, and getting bought out by the big houses for the last few years. No PC gaming isn't going anywhere. We are going to see less and less of the big AAA style PC games going forward. If you believe different cool... its not what the entire industry has been saying for a few years now though. Mobile platforms perhaps sadly or perhaps not if your a linux gamer are going to be the target device for developers more and more.

ChadD said:

You know I wasn't pointing to one stupid fight game heatle. The money in gaming isn't in the high end PC market...

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http://www.pcgamer.com/pc-gaming-market-worth-36-billion-in-2016/

Yes I know that mobile is bigger and growing faster but PC gaming is still growing and $36B is a hell of a chunk of dough and you can't get this money from mobile. The people spending this money will not just go and spend it on mobile games.

They're just different markets.

BulletDust said:

Everyone's focus is on the OS, it's the GUI they use to interact with the machine they're using, the only thing that changes is the individuals personal preference regarding that GUI and it's operation.

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When you're gaming, there's NO FOCUS on the OS. Especially in VR, you don't see anything Windows UI unless you pull up a desktop. Same goes for web browsing or editing a document or reading a PDF. 90% is pressing a button to run something for most folks. Sure there's tasks with copying files or settings but those aren't primary tasks.

BulletDust said:

Gaming is but one niche use of a PC,

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PC gaming is well beyond niche, at least in certain spots of the world. You can go into a Best Buy in the US and buy a gaming laptop, gaming accessories, etc. in store. Sure not a full line of stuff but you won't find to many Linux PCs there.

BulletDust said:

if someone prefers Linux due to the issues regarding Windows 10 and Microsoft's decisions as late and they can play most of the games they prefer under Linux,

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That's fine. May however will prefer their the experiences they have with their devices than a UI they barely see.

heatlesssun said:

When you're gaming, there's NO FOCUS on the OS. Especially in VR, you don't see anything Windows UI unless you pull up a desktop. Same goes for web browsing or editing a document or reading a PDF. 90% is pressing a button to run something for most folks. Sure there's tasks with copying files or settings but those aren't primary tasks.

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Which means literally nothing! When you have an application open under iOS you see none of the operating system, just the full screen application, yet many run iOS because they prefer it. The OS is the GUI, to most people that's the computer, don't pretend like it's irrelevant and gamers display some heightened arrogance towards their choice of preferred OS just so they can game - As Simmonz so elegantly put it, not everyone can be ignorantly blissful just so they can game, ignorant bliss is not what defines a PC gamer.

heatlesssun said:

PC gaming is well beyond niche, at least in certain spots of the world. You can go into a Best Buy in the US and buy a gaming laptop, gaming accessories, etc. in store. Sure not a full line of stuff but you won't find to many Linux PCs there.

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It's still but one very small use of an infinitely programmable device. Once again, under Steam statistics the most popular GPU is an iGPU - Intel's HD4000 graphics to be exact, that makes gaming sound like a viable, but niche market to me. You can go into a music shop and buy a Korg synth with a MIDI interface, that doesn't mean you have to run Windows if you can get by with less latency and cost under Linux and the software suits your needs. However, once again, that's but one use of an infinitely programmable machine, a niche. Depending on personal use, needs and preference there is absolutely no requirement to run Windows in many scenarios.

heatlesssun said:

That's fine. May however will prefer their the experiences they have with their devices than a UI they barely see.

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Come on! Now you're clutching!

They see the GUI every time they turn on their machine, what a ridiculous comment.

BulletDust said:

Come on! Now you're clutching!

They see the GUI every time they turn on their machine, what a ridiculous comment.

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Perhaps he launches his game from VR. A game with in a game within another game... sounds like a 90' VR movie. VirtUIosity staring heatlesssun as the Linux killing bot HLS 6.7. Or perhaps he launches his games and posts on forums from the matrix, or a VR game within the matrix.

ChadD said:

Perhaps he launches his game from VR. A game with in a game within another game... sounds like a 90' VR movie. VirtUIosity staring heatlesssun as the Linux killing bot HLS 6.7. Or perhaps he launches his games and posts on forums from the matrix, or a VR game within the matrix.

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Not under Windows, it'd have to reboot to update far too often to make a reliable Matrix.

BulletDust said:

Not under Windows, it'd have to reboot to update far too often to make a reliable Matrix.

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I am imagining having a heart attack when everything around me goes blue and this sound plays at 1000% volume;
Your pod ran into a problem and needs to restart. We're just collecting some personal info, then we'll replug you. (0% complete)

ChadD said:

I am imagining having a heart attack when everything around me goes blue and this sound plays at 1000% volume;
Your pod ran into a problem and needs to restart. We're just collecting some personal info, then we'll replug you. (0% complete)

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Haha! There's nothing worse than when you're finishing a job up as a tech and you decide to restart the clients PC just to make sure everything's OK on reboot only to be greeted with 'applying update 1 of 40' and then 'installing updates, please don't turn off your PC, 22%' and it sits there seemingly for hours....

....Total brain fart and so damn annoying!

BulletDust said:

Which means literally nothing! When you have an application open under iOS you see none of the operating system, just the full screen application, yet many run iOS because they prefer it. The OS is the GUI, to most people that's the computer, don't pretend like it's irrelevant and gamers display some heightened arrogance towards their choice of preferred OS just so they can game - As Simmonz so elegantly put it, not everyone can be ignorantly blissful just so they can game, ignorant bliss is not what defines a PC gamer.

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Using on an OS day to day mostly involves clicking on something to activate something else. Day to day a typical user is in a web browser and most web sites themselves are applications with their own UI that's cross-platform, YouTube in a desktop browser is YouTube in a desktop browser doesn't matter what the OS is. Or they are in a office suite or they are playing video or music. I'm not discounting the OS GUI, I'm saying how much time does one really spend with an app launcher or even the file system compared to using applications. Linux isn't difficult to use because a web browser is a web browser, a document editor is a document editor, a video player is a video player and so forth and the OS GUI is largely irrelevant at that point.

And you keep talking about my preferred choice of OS? No, it's all about what I want to do with my devices and being able to do the things I've always done. I've spent FAR more on games than Windows licenses over the years and other software. What good is an OS GUI if the OS doesn't run the applications one wants and needs? I understand those things aren't important to you and that you think they aren't important to most. However you want to look at it in the general sense, that doesn't really change losing the ability to use thousands in hardware and software. Yeah, a Vive is pointless under Linux at this time unless you're developing Linux VR apps.

BulletDust said:

It's still but one very small use of an infinitely programmable device.

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A Google search on "Linux" produces 385M results. A Google search on "PC gaming" produces 154M results. That one very small use generates almost half as many results as your preferred OS. Your view of gaming is all over the place. It's niche yet seems to generate a hell of lot of interest. Pro-desktop Linux folks have been singing the praises of Valve since they started distributing Linux games. So if PC gaming is a very small use, why would pro-desktop Linux folks care, gaming is a very small thing. And you bought up Khronos Group the other day as being a force for Linux. Yeah, graphics APIs deal with more than gaming but Khronos talks a LOT about gaming.

BulletDust said:

They see the GUI every time they turn on their machine, what a ridiculous comment.

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They see an OS GUI on there way to some other task. Really, startup a Linux or Windows machine, click on the thing for the web browser and that's where the time is spent.

Geez I could have swore that not so long ago heatless commented that gaming is not a reason for people to use windows. Now it seems gaming and VR are the only reason to continue using it. I actually agree with him - windows is best used as a dedicated gaming console.

heatlesssun said:

They see an OS GUI on there way to some other task. Really, startup a Linux or Windows machine, click on the thing for the web browser and that's where the time is spent.

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So if you now agree that "the time" is spent in a browser.

What reasons do you have then for people to continue using windows ? Which is clearly the worst OS you could possibly be using to browse the web.

ChadD said:

So if you now agree that "the time" is spent in a browser.

What reasons do you have then for people to continue using windows ? Which is clearly the worst OS you could possibly be using to browse the web.

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LOL! Pretty sure everyone in this forum is using a web browser of some sort to use it, I don't think there's a mobile app for this site on only platform. I'm always using browser. I'm always using a lot things. Really if all you need is a web browser you don't need a PC these days anyway, I've said that a zillion times.

B00nie said:

Geez I could have swore that not so long ago heatless commented that gaming is not a reason for people to use windows. Now it seems gaming and VR are the only reason to continue using it. I actually agree with him - windows is best used as a dedicated gaming console.

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Huh? This forum is FULL of PC that use Windows for gaming. And a lot of other things. I've been playing games on computers for 40 years and will do so until I can't. Like a lot of other folks around here. And there are people that game under Linux around here, if that works for them then great. Again, it can't work for me when so little of my gaming is natively Linux compatible. Everything I do on a PC from work to play works fine on Windows 10. Windows 10 wouldn't be of much use to me if it wasn't 100% compatible for what I need and want it for. If that's not the case and other feel the need for Linux or macOS, I've never said don't.

Gaming is entirely possible under Linux.

Once again, as I've stated time and time again in the past, if Windows suits yourself and you can live in ignorant bliss regarding Microsoft and their practices, by all means run Windows.

The point that needs to be forced however is that not all gamers are ignorant to their choice of OS, the OS is not invisible to the consumer and using Windows does not define a gamer.

One can be a gamer and run Linux happily if the OS supports the games they desire, as time goes on this is becoming an increasingly viable option.

As a well above average PC user, Linux would be of no use to myself also if it did not support all of the tasks I need to achieve on a PC and I have highlighted in an earlier post exactly what those tasks are, to much ridicule of the Windows Master Race for some obscure reason.

I just thought of another massive benefit relating to my preference of Linux as my main OS, almost universal file system compatibility!

HFS, HFS+, NTFS, FAT32, ExFAT, Ext....No matter what the file system my Linux distro has no problem reading it out of the box. An absolute 'must have' as a PC tech.

Something else for people to consider when deciding on what OS may be better suited to their own usage case scenario.

BulletDust said:

I just thought of another massive benefit relating to my preference of Linux as my main OS, almost universal file system compatibility!

HFS, HFS+, NTFS, FAT32, ExFAT, Ext....No matter what the file system my Linux distro has no problem reading it out of the box. An absolute 'must have' as a PC tech.

Something else for people to consider when deciding on what OS may be better suited to their own usage case scenario.

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Good point.. if I take a machine with me to help me fix a Linux system. I take a Linux machine. If I go to fix a windows machine, I also use a Linux machine. If I need to boot from a USB so I can read some completely corrupted install I use Linux.

ChadD said:

Good point.. if I take a machine with me to help me fix a Linux system. I take a Linux machine. If I go to fix a windows machine, I also use a Linux machine. If I need to boot from a USB so I can read some completely corrupted install I use Linux.

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Same here!

My laptop runs Linux (14.04, needs updating, my bad!) and it comes to every job with me. Mac, Windows or Linux machines it never lets me down!