Emission
Supreme [H]ardness
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Because nobody would recognize them, and that doesn't sell movie tickets.
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Ghost In The Shell Official Trailer
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Because nobody would recognize them, and that doesn't sell movie tickets.
Exactly. So why shouldn't the lead be an Asian American actress?
So people were hyped about The Last Airbender because they wanted to see Noah Ringer and Jackson Rathbone, right? And nobody wanted to watch Paranormal Activity because Katie Featherston, who's that?
Emission
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Point proven.
Clarification edit: I don't know who any of those people are, so I'm less inclined to watch any of those movies. As a fan of action movies in general, and someone who knows Scar Jo from other movies, I would be more inclined to watch this movie given that alone.
pendragon1
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major has a Japanese name but she has never looked Japanese, maybe mixed. go back a couple pages and look and the side-by-side head shots. even in the manga she doesn't look Japanese. and whoever quote the 98.5% Japanese in japan, that's now in 2017. who knows what it would be like in gits time and that's reality vs fantasy.
Obviously not every film can be as profitable as Paranormal Activity. But if you're going with the "money" argument, I only need one counterexample.
I'm the one who brought up the 98.5% figure. That was in context of the screenshot I gave for the first page of the English translation of the comic, which very clearly stated that the setting is Japan, and while it's the future, it's fantasy, not everything has changed: "The nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."
Also, again, the whole "look Japanese" argument is not meaningful. If you don't like my DCAU example, this makes the point in a more general way.
pendragon1
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I read that as the first part "its the near future. the world..." is clearly talking about the world and the second part "and on the edge of asia, is a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "japan"" is aboot japan. I consider myself a pretty big gits fan and nothing aboot the live action has gotten my panties twisted. not to mention the Japanese don't see the issues either...
Wow. OK, let's quote the entire page, then.
"It is the near future. The world has become highly information-intensive, with a vast corporate network covering the planet, electrons and light pulsing through it. But the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive.
And on the edge of Asia, in a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan"..."
How convenient of you to ignore the part that says "But the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive." I don't read Japanese, but I know enough Chinese characters to recognize that in the original, "nation-state" (国家) and "ethnic groups" (民族) are mentioned.
http://i.imgur.com/RcyWbKz.png
You're basically making the same argument as my DCAU argument, except you're serious about it.
I wonder, did they release this in Japan with horrible Japanese spoken out of sync to the English vocal track and with Japanese subtitles ? Bizarro-opposite anime.
I haven't kept up in the most recent Chinese films but what I find the most annoying is that they'll cast a Caucasian/Middle Eastern/Indian into a show/movie just because they can speak Chinese... and the reason they are there is for that reason and that reason only. I think I enjoy the Chinese movies that are primarily based in Asia and don't really watch the ones where I think the cast isn't done right/do the cast justice.
I'd rather watch a film where the casts are done properly and not because the name has a big draw. Please keep closer to source material if you're bringing things to the big screen! that's all I ask. Look at Dragonball... that was horribly done (and that was with asian directors too I think..? Shame on you Stephen Chow!), Chun Li? LOL. Hollywood is so out of touch :/.
Did anybody know the actor to the Last Air Bender?
Damar
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That one was supposedly never made....
But now they are courting a new director and may finally be on track to ruin yet another anime masterpiece...
http://www.tracking-board.com/hot-o...ed-to-direct-akira-for-warner-bros-exclusive/
Never knew about that other one, and that's probably for the best.
Youn
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ahhhh....I totally thought that poster was a 100% joke, didn't realize they were actually considering that... yes, it not being made was for the best
Characters in anime rarely look Japanese though, as anime style in general relies on large eyes to convey emotion, and different color eyes and hair and hairstyles to differentiate characters at a glance. To Westerners, we expect someone drawn Japanese to have dark straight hair and smaller more squinty brown eyes, and when they don't we think they look white. Fact is, especially with earlier color pallets and the very simplified style of anime, if they did that most of the characters would look way too similar.
And they do have a way to make someone white, they often draw a far larger nose than is typical in anime, will toss in a English/French/German word now and then, and give them blond hair and blue eyes and a weird Western sounding name. Major doesn't have a big nose, never busts out in English on occasion, nor a Western name.
So IMO she's def. Japanese, but since she changes appearance and doesn't have a human body, it is fair enough that she could have chosen a Caucasian look... or that is to say, that the creator could have intended her to have a Caucasian body. After all, from the Japanese guys I know, just as much as there are a lot of white guys that prefer Chinese/Japanese looking girls as the master race, there are a lot of Japanese guys that like the Russian/Swedish/German girl look since that is exotic.
Someone should really just ask Masamune Shirow, as that would settle it.
Well, fine, but American movies are primarily intended for a Western English speaking audience, right? Once you factor in the European market too under the umbrella, the percent of Asians is even smaller, so lets say 2.5%.
That would mean that 97.5% of the time, the actors and actresses are NOT Asian, right? IMO, I see the opposite issue occurring, where just last night I was watching The Expanse, and there were only a handful of white actors. IMO to accuse Hollywood of anything at the moment, it would be of pushing too hard for diversity, and in the case again of the show I was watching last night they cast minority females as the big bad bosses that are better than any man, except its not even convincing in the least... they even cast a redneck role with a middle-easterner. I'm not kidding, and his accent is so horrible, its as cringe-worthy as listening to a Louisiana redneck try to imitate an Indian guys accent.
If I've understood you correctly, you're trying to artificially reduce the percentage of Asian Americans by including all Europeans into the denominator, which will obviously swamp the number of Asian Europeans added to the numerator.
Um, well, if you want to do that, Canada is about 14% Asian, and 6% East Asian. Australia is about 12% Asian, as is New Zealand. Obviously not all of these people can act. I sure as hell can't. But if you're trying to argue that there's just not enough English-speaking Asian actors and actresses out there, sorry, not buying it.
pendragon1
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yeah I didnt feel like quoting the whole fuckin thing. to me the first part is specifically talking about the world. the second is about japan. it is set in a futuristic world that we dont fully know about.
Japanese and Chinese are two different languages...
you see it your way, I see it mine. no point in continuing arguing about it.
its a mixed bag but more look werstern. there are distinctly japanese looking characters like blood the last vamp and there are western looking characters like sailor moon. sm is totally western looking but clearly in japan and has a Japanese name. Blood the last vamp looks Japanese. even in that vid posted asking japanese about the white washing they say that it is normal for characters to look white. so how can it be white washing when that how they originally were?! if people want to complain aboot white-washing they need to start bitching at the creators.
as far as the major goes, we never saw what her real body looked like. in every incarnation she is in a cyborg body that looks western and technically her voice is synthetic too and should change from body to body. the only real Japanese piece of her left is her brain/ghost. maybe ming-na could have done a voice over....
yes someone should shoot them a wtf?!
What does "artificially" mean to you? Western civilization generally encompasses Europe and the colonies, which include Australia and the United States.
Why do people insist on doing this in every thread. Quote what I say, and stop with the strawman arguments. Quote me where I said that there aren't enough English speaking Asians that can act... *facepalm*
My point was clear.
In Japanese movies intended for a Japanese audience its normal that the cast are... yup... Japanese.
In Chinese movies intended for a Chinese audience its normal that the cast are... guess first... Chinese.
In Indian movies intended for an Indian audience its normal that the cast are... bingo... Indian.
In Nigerian movies intended for a Nigerian audience its normal that the cast are... right again... Nigerian.
In Western movies intended for a Western audience its normal that the cast are primarily ... Chinese, nope, Japanese, nope, Indian? Nope... last guess.
You're pretending that the sentence - "But the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive" - isn't there. If you want to interpret it differently than I do, of course that's fine. But it's intellectually dishonest to repeatedly pretend that the sentence isn't there.
That tells me you know nothing about Japanese. What do you think "kanji" means? "The Japanese term kanji for the Chinese characters literally means "Han characters" and is written using the same characters as the Chinese word hànzì." 国家 and 民族 mean the same thing in Japanese and Chinese.
Basic principle of animation.
I wasn't talking about Western civilization. I was talking about America.
In Japanese movies intended for a Japanese audience its normal that the cast are... yup... Japanese.
In Chinese movies intended for a Chinese audience its normal that the cast are... guess first... Chinese.
In Indian movies intended for an Indian audience its normal that the cast are... bingo... Indian.
In Nigerian movies intended for a Nigerian audience its normal that the cast are... right again... Nigerian.
In Western movies intended for a Western audience its normal that the cast are primarily ... Chinese, nope, Japanese, nope, Indian? Nope... last guess.
Japan is a country. That's 98.5% Japanese.
China is a country. That's 91.6% Han.
India is a country. That's 97% Indo-Aryan or Dravidian.
Nigeria is a country. I hope I really don't need to comment on Nigeria.
"Western" is not a country. You complain about straw men, but then you try a stunt like this.
Mugato
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Kanji means "Han"? So, Kanji Klub in the force awakens is "Hans Club"? Who are tracking down Han Solo?
Going off the plot it makes more sense for her to not be Asian as a cyborg so that she would not be recognized. I think Scarlet did an amazing job and do not know of any other actress that could portray Major as closely as she did. She was really a perfect casting for the role. Of course there were a few issues like batou looked perfectly sized on the boat as he towers over major but in many other scenes his size didn't have any CGI so he was much smaller. But hell the hobbit had some of those same issues and it isn't hated on for it. The story was a nice adaptation so that it wasn't as predictable as watching a 100% clone remade as live action but it still had all the feel and was able to incorporate a lot of the great things from the anime. I thought it was a very good movie overall. I probably would have enjoyed it more if it had an R rating though. I think its biggest failing is that it came out at a time when jack ass recreationally offended SJWs are being listened to by corporate PR/marketing departments. It will pass eventually and then we can get back to rating things based on their actual merits and not what some jack ass feels in the made up reality in their head. Once again I'll say it was a very good movie, Scarlett did a great job, and when it comes out on Blueray I will be picking it up.
Kanji is 漢字. Kan (漢) + ji (字). Two characters. "Kan" is cognate with "Han" in Chinese, which is the same character (漢 traditional/汉 simplified). "Ji" is cognate with "zi" in Chinese, which again is the same character (字).
So "kanji" means "Han characters," where Han refers to one of the names Chinese people use to refer to themselves, based on the Han Dynasty (漢朝) period.
You don't need to know any of this to enjoy any Japanese comic or cartoon. Of course not. Like I said, I get that not everyone cares about the whitewashing, and I haven't replied to anyone who said they don't care. But if someone's going to talk about money, "look Western / look Japanese, " or ignore a fact, then you care enough to have an opinion.
TheCommander
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Should have been an Asian or Asian American woman since it would have stayed truer to the cartoon. I'm guessing they wanted to maximize profits so they took a high profile actress. Either way, it is just an average movie.
Yes, and to recap recent events, I then pointed out to you that Hollywood films are marketed primarily towards an English speaking Western culture audience, IE The United States, Canada, most of Europe, and Australia.
I'm pretty sure you know that straw-men is about falsifying what the person you are arguing with has said, in order to more easily attack that fake argument. You were putting words in my mouth, and I'd love for your to show the class where I have done the same to you.
"English speaking Western" is a market because of, ding ding ding, IMPERIALISM and COLONIALISM. Japan tried to create an empire but failed. China tried to create an empire, but never really expanded past its current borders. So Japan and China are each their own markets, and also countries. Because in particular the British created a massive empire with foreign colonies, "English speaking Western" represents a market that is larger than a single country and includes North America, most of Western/Nordic Europe, and Australia. That's a mostly white audience, so you should expect to see mostly white actors, this is nothing special or different from all the other markets mentioned.
Imperialism and colonialism would also apply for example to a lesser extent to the Spanish empire, so most of Latin America and Spain would be a market for Spanish language films, and it would be and is perfectly fine that most spanish films use Hispanic actors for their Hispanic audience.
Every time I watch a Japanese cartoon I can't help but wonder why they look American (or white). I used to watch Battle of the Planets (Gatchaman in Japan) when I was a kid, and all of them looked white. Voltron, Digimon, Pokemon...all the same thing with a few exceptions; a couple characters may look Asian.
I used to work at a small Japanese plant here in the U.S., and I used to ask one of the guys why they draw their characters to look like us. He would laugh and say, "I don't know."
I used to work at a small Japanese plant here in the U.S., and I used to ask one of the guys why they draw their characters to look like us. He would laugh and say, "I don't know."
psy81
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Wrong, if they cast a Chinese person to play a Japanese character it wouldn't be right. Asian it too broad. Asian Americans aren't Asian, they are banana's rejected by Asians. When I hear Korean American trying to speak Korean in movies its sounds terrible and ruins the movie for me. When they cast a Chinese person to play a Korean I can tell right away and it ruins the movies for me. I understand why they white washed the film because they want to cast known actors and actresses. It makes sense...I take no offense to it.
In addition, hardly any white people in Korean movies and shows and when we do see them they are treated as novelties... haha
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Do you seriously think white people naturally have purple hair? Green hair? Pink hair? Or that white people have eyes that cover 1/3rd their faces? Once more, a basic principle of animation is that the more "cartoony" the design is, the more "general" it is.
Again, if you guys want to go here, I can say DCAU Bruce Wayne is an Asian man. And DCAU Superman is an alien that looks like an Asian man.
Yes, you were talking about other countries. I wasn't. So I'm free to point out that your preferred calculation (add Europeans to Americans) just artificially reduces the Asian American percentage.
Sure, I was putting words in your mouth before. But your new post shows that I didn't misinterpret you.
Those are your words, verbatim. America is 77% white, and of course actors are mostly white. Duh.
Do you have a point here besides stating the obvious? You can complain about straw manning all you like, but unless you just want to state the obvious, you are arguing that there's not enough Asian American actors and actresses, so I shouldn't be surprised that Asian characters get played by white actors or actresses. This is the same reason why you tried to reduce 5.6% to 2.5%; you wanted to argue that there's not enough Asians in Western countries.
Of course, it's also a duh that Asians are minorities in the US, Canada, etc. But you are free to look up the demographics for Japan, China, India, and Nigeria and tell me if whites make up anywhere close to 5.6% (or 2.5%) of those countries.
pendragon1
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both of those look like white guys to me
I didn't know ScarJo was speaking Japanese in most of the movie.
They both have black hair. Not dark brown. Black.
They both have small eyes. Superman's are much smaller than Lex Luthor's.
There's nothing about the way they're drawn that says they're white guys. They could be Asian guys.
I don't give this example to troll. I give it to illustrate that relying on how cartoony characters are drawn to determine their race isn't the best way to go about it. You know Bruce Wayne is white because the source material says he's white.
When did Germany and china become "The entire world"you said you have lived in five countries but only mentions two of them? trying to hide the 3 others because they don't confirm to your point ?
OK approximately in rough numbers amount 0% of american movies are dubbed in Denmark, Norway Sweden (unless they target kids
I have never even meet a person in said countries that prefer to watch an America movie dubbed
So again not thee entire world watches dubbed stuff which was my point that you tried to countre argue by selecting 2 countries that are bad at it.
I never said they didn't
So you can only one watch one movie because otherwise you have watched 2 and one would be worse but you only watch the best.... Are you really trying to use a logik that you con only watch one countries movies?
again trying to make the whole world just you little spot on earth...and, no, Japan, Brazil, or Portugal releasing one good movie every three decades doesn't count.
The american release of Taxi was horrid in regards to the original
So was the girls with the dragon tatto
Night guard.
etc etc
There are plenty of US/Hollywood adopted and redone movies that has totally lost what was good and special in the original foreign release because it had to be wringed through the grey mass market appeal
Plenty of movies has been release in foreign countries that a lot better than the average hollywood stuff, but to really get them you need to have a certain culture insight because it not just standard action/explosion movies
The pusher trilogy
Green butchers
I don't know, since that's something you just made up on your own and has no relevance to the conversation, why don't you tell us?
Source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_(filmmaking)
"In the Italian, French, German, Spanish, Turkish, Hungarian, Albanian, Slovak, Czech, Russian and Ukrainian language-speaking markets of Europe, almost all foreign films and television shows are dubbed. There are few opportunities to watch foreign movies in their original versions. In Spain, Italy, Germany and Austria, even in the largest cities, there are few cinemas that screen original versions with subtitles, or without any translation."
See, my source says you're full of shit.... woops!
Dubbing costs money, and when there are only 5 million people in the entire country of Norway for example (versus say 80 million in Germany, and almost half the population of new york city), its probably not worth the effort, especially since 90% of Norwegians speak English.
If most people don't enjoy watching them, then they are mostly shit. Yes, there are a handful of good foreign films, but as I said they have virtually no budget compared to Hollywood. How many of these films are not Hollywood productions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_films
Keep scrolling, keep scrolling, yup, zerooooooo...
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pendragon1
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so you think only Asians have black hair and small eyes(not Asian looking just small)? you really are stretching to try and prove your point. you can carry on in your fantasy, I'm done.
Africans have black hair too. But you didn't say they looked like black guys to you.
You don't seem to read very well, which I guess explains why you pretended that one sentence didn't exist multiple times even though I gave you the full quote twice. I didn't say I think DCAU Bruce Wayne and Superman are white. I said based on your logic - go by how the characters are drawn - I could easily argue they are Asian. This was purposefully a ridiculous example to show why you shouldn't go by how characters are drawn.
I don't know why this point is so hard to grasp: the more cartoony the animation, the more general the character.
I, OTOH, couldn't care less. The only time it bugs me at all is if it's a historical character. Stuff from Comics and cartoons? Not so much. Spiderman's boss was white, because when the comic was created, pretty much all bosses were white. Now that's not the case and there's really nothing about that character that screams "I must be white" or even a guy. Even Peter Parker's race is irrelevant. His same story could easily be a black, japanese, Indian or Hispanic character. In Super Girl, they cast a black actor as Jimmy Olsen and it doesn't affect the character or the story in any way. Aside from the first episode and this reply, I never think about it.
This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. Why stop there? Why even call him Peter Parker? It can be Jennifer Jackson, the race and gender and name doesn't change the story in any way. And why does he have to be bitten by a spider? Is the story really that different if he were bitten by a scorpion? And why does his nemesis Doctor Octopus have to have robotic limbs? Why not have him be an Indian guy with many arms named Doctor Vishnu.
Jennifer Jackson, Scorpiongirl, coming to a theater near you!
Jesus Christ, man!
Stick to the artists story or start a new one from scratch, seriously.
I don't know, since that's something you just made up on your own and has no relevance to the conversation, why don't you tell us?
Source? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing_(filmmaking)
"In the Italian, French, German, Spanish, Turkish, Hungarian, Albanian, Slovak, Czech, Russian and Ukrainian language-speaking markets of Europe, almost all foreign films and television shows are dubbed. There are few opportunities to watch foreign movies in their original versions. In Spain, Italy, Germany and Austria, even in the largest cities, there are few cinemas that screen original versions with subtitles, or without any translation."
See, my source says you're full of shit.... woops!
Dubbing costs money, and when there are only 5 million people in the entire country of Norway for example (versus say 80 million in Germany, and almost half the population of new york city), its probably not worth the effort, especially since 90% of Norwegians speak English.
If most people don't enjoy watching them, then they are mostly shit. Yes, there are a handful of good foreign films, but as I said they have virtually no budget compared to Hollywood. How many of these films are not Hollywood productions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_films
Keep scrolling, keep scrolling, yup, zerooooooo...
I think you missed what out ebate is about and are trying to move the goalspost once you got proven wrong.
but let me quote you what our debate was about
So you my god man brought in that the Entire world used dubs and that it is why it is relevant because that is what YOU stated
Where as i stated
Which i have proven that ALL is not correct terminology to use in your statemnets.
and to copy paste from you own link to wiki
"In the Nordic countries, dubbing is used only in animated features and other films for young audiences. Some theaters in the major cities may also screen the original version, usually as the last showing of the day, or in a smaller auditorium in a multiplex
So you own evidence does prove I was right in correcting your wrong statement
This is what happens when you get upset when someone argues against you. That all you cam think about is being right so you loose track of what was actually pointed out you where wrong in.
ALL does not meant most or close to ALL. All mean all you you did in facts use that word incorrectly.
Lets recap.
My Claim: I said that the world is watching our crap, but dubbed.
Fact: The overwhelming majority of the world is watching our crap, but dubbed. A tiny exaggeration of a fact that you don't like, because everyone forgets about Sweden.
Your Claim: Pretending you know me, claim I've never been anywhere and that many countries don't dub.
Fact: Your insulting ASSumption wasn't necessary nor accurate. And a couple 90%+ English speaking Nordic countries (namely where you probably come from with a name like Sven), that represents an insignificant population, are the rare exception that don't dub our movies (and yes you still watch them). Considering there are way over a hundred non-English speaking countries, your ability to name three would be even more of an exaggeration to consider that "many", if you're going to continue whining and nit picking.
Conclusion: The world is watching our crap, but dubbed (except the Nords, never forget about the Nords or they will declare a state of neutrality against you).