Whach
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,244
Is it like country music where its something you'll never truly get until you pine for the love of a first cousin?
? I don't much like country music, but I doubt its all about that lol
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Is it like country music where its something you'll never truly get until you pine for the love of a first cousin?
Sorry, but even if anime isn't as fringe as it once was, it's still a long way from being mainstream. Even within animedom, there aren't *that* many GitS fans. Even if they all had gone to see it, I doubt the numbers would've been a heck of a lot greater than they ended up being. In other words, the movie was bound to flop because it couldn't reach out to mainstream viewers -- not in large enough numbers, anyway. That also covers my view of the "whitewashing" topic: the number of people who cared enough about that to not see the movie was far from significant -- the movie wouldn't have done a whole lot better if everyone who boycotted it had gone to see it instead.Perhaps the older generations aren't anime fans, but I know there's a lot of younger people (35 and younger) that love anime. The size and growing number of conventions, and the ever increasing content, including imported anime with English audio, proves how popular it is. Especially works by Hayao Miyazaki.
As for fans not watching the movie due to them butchering the characters or story. I'm not entirely sure what the producers were thinking. Classics like Ghost in the Shell have a deep fan base, if you're going to make a movie for them based on a beloved series, you better make the actors and costumes look as identical as possible, not waste resources on name brand actors. It wasn't even so much about the white washing, which is a small problem in the industry, but the fact the costumes, and even the actors themselves, weren't remotely true to the characters! This is the sole reason why it flopped, just as the live action dragon ball movie did a few years ago.
Reviewers have never had a big problem with this in the past and the reviews I read didn't dislike it because of the actress. They didn't like the writing.I think the whitewashing hurt it- not in terms of putting of moviegoers directly, but if you offend movie reviewers political 'sensibilities', they'll dump on you.
Sorry, but even if anime isn't as fringe as it once was, it's still a long way from being mainstream. Even within animedom, there aren't *that* many GitS fans. Even if they all had gone to see it, I doubt the numbers would've been a heck of a lot greater than they ended up being. In other words, the movie was bound to flop because it couldn't reach out to mainstream viewers -- not in large enough numbers, anyway. That also covers my view of the "whitewashing" topic: the number of people who cared enough about that to not see the movie was far from significant -- the movie wouldn't have done a whole lot better if everyone who boycotted it had gone to see it instead.
Personally, I think the movie was poorly timed. It may also have suffered from insufficient marketing, but I couldn't say that for sure. But timing... it may have done better if it had been released at some other time of the year, though probably not enough to stop it from flopping. This movie may well have been doomed from the beginning.
Reviewers have never had a big problem with this in the past and the reviews I read didn't dislike it because of the actress. They didn't like the writing.
Why's it not doing well? Okay, here's a view from someone who is not part of the GiTS fan base, but enjoys sci-fi: the trailers got my attention. But Scarjo brings her SJW odor with her. Does that matter to me? Yes, when it is my money she wants. Plus, as a Hollywood action flick, I'm pretty sure I'll see a lot of high tempo scenes with a lot of CGI, held together by some sort of thin thread of a plot. In sum, an actress with whom I disagree on about everything, starring in a movie I view as predictable. Not worth my time or money.
Hollywood is in a rut.
That's my view.
In all honesty, it probably would have been more appealing if it were rated-R with some nudity and hyper-violence.Pfft everyone just mad cuz no Scarlett Johansson nipples...
In all honesty, it probably would have been more appealing if it were rated-R with some nudity and hyper-violence.
Just wait until the live action Akira hits the theaters!!
I think it's a combination of the white washing issue (which is just as stupid, in this particular case, as it was with the force awakens and Finn...plenty of peeps on this forum were white raged over Finn being black).
I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
She's a cyborg. She could look like a smurf and still be in Japan. And I'll add, that when studios plop down 100 million (200 million if you believe the article), they want a big name star to prop up the tent. I can't think of any Japanese American actress that could do that today. Now you can argue that that's because not enough are cast in roles, and that's probably a fair statement, but that's really a supporting role issue and perhaps lead roles in smaller films. IME, actors start off small and work their way up. There are exceptions, but most are like Daniel Craig who'd been acting for almost 15 years before he got the lead in James Bond.I don't care much for SJW crocodile tears, but I wouldn't compare this to The Force Awakens. If you read the official Dark Horse English translation of the Ghost in the Shell manga, the first page says very clearly that the comic is set in 'a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan."'
Sure, it also says "it is the near future," and in fact that's the opening sentence. But two sentences later, we have "the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."
I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
She's a cyborg. She could look like a smurf and still be in Japan.
And I'll add, that when studios plop down 100 million (200 million if you believe the article), they want a big name star to prop up the tent.
I don't care much for SJW crocodile tears, but I wouldn't compare this to The Force Awakens. If you read the official Dark Horse English translation of the Ghost in the Shell manga, the first page says very clearly that the comic is set in 'a strange corporate conglomerate-state called "Japan."'
Sure, it also says "it is the near future," and in fact that's the opening sentence. But two sentences later, we have "the nation-state and ethnic groups still survive."
I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
So if a blue eyed cacausian person with obviously caucasian bone structure were to live in say, africa, their race would be considered african?I grant that the author doesn't care about the whitewashing and has praised ScarJo, but IMO, it takes some mental gymnastics to argue with a straight face that the Major is a white woman in a futuristic Japan (a country that's 98.5% Japanese, and the next largest minority is 0.5% Korean).
If you saw the movie you'd actually realize they use her being White as a part of the story and imo it actually helps drive home part of the morality of the themes it sets fourth that'd be missing if it were a Japanese actress.
So if a blue eyed cacausian person with obviously caucasian bone structure were to live in say, africa, their race would be considered african?
She's also constantly "in the field" (i.e. the streets of Japan). Now, if the country is 98.5% all the same ethnic group, don't know about you, but to me, looking like a smurf or a white person causes you to stand out. Maybe that's not ideal if you want to blend in when you're doing police work.
If her raceless cyborg body was supposed to be asian looking in the anime, then it was a freakishly tall, giant breasted, and doe-eyed asian and would have certainly stood out in any mostly normal-looking asian crowd. Being super attractive, hyper-sexuallized, and often scantily clad probably didn't help much either.
She's also constantly "in the field" (i.e. the streets of Japan). Now, if the country is 98.5% all the same ethnic group, don't know about you, but to me, looking like a smurf or a white person causes you to stand out. Maybe that's not ideal if you want to blend in when you're doing police work.
Oh not this argument again. Studios said the same about The Last Airbender, which had a budget of $150 million. How well did that work out for them?
Ugh, the "Asian looking" argument. You know, if you want to go there, I can easily argue that the DC Animated Universe versions of Bruce Wayne, Superman, and Dick Grayson are actually Asian men. They all have black (not brown) hair. Superman's eyes are even smaller than most other characters'. Prior to the animation change, Bruce Wayne looked like this.
I bet you'd think that's a ridiculous argument. And it is. Because we know that Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson are white. But we know that based on background information, not based on how they're drawn.
That's how it goes. It's why Stallone got to make 1 bad movie after another, because no matter how bad each First Blood sequel was (and every one other than the original was crap) did great, because it had Stallone in it.
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Sorry if you don't like that movies are a business, but that's what it is. Again, if you want to win this fight, you take it to the smaller films, where ethnic actors can build a resume and become marquee actors. It's an issue, but you will never win this fight on movies with a 9 figure budget.
How exactly was the script bad? At least 80% of it was straight from the acclaimed 95 animated film.I don't care about the whole whitewashing. But the script. The script was bad. This is a rental, maybe.
How exactly was the script bad? At least 80% of it was straight from the acclaimed 95 animated film.
I brought up the comic to dispel the oft-repeated claim that the original sources never said anything about where the setting is etc.
I don't see how that question relates to what you quoted from me.
So, what exactly was bad?So what your saying is they took a good script and ruined it with nothing even sort of original. Got it.
I was pointing out that they use ScarJo's race in the story to drive home part of the theme and morality of the storyline that you wouldn't get if she was played by a Japanese actress.
Of course. That's why The Last Airbender had a $150 million budget and cast marquee actors like Noah Ringer and Jackson Rathbone. Wait.
- Airbender was Ringer's first role.
- Rathbone was a background supporting cast member in the Twilight series.
- Airbender flopped. It was supposed to be the start of a series, and the sequel never happened.
The problem with your argument is that studios pull it constantly. They pull it for big budget films and low budget films. They pull it for marquee actors and for nobodies. That tells me that it's not a valid argument. It's just an excuse.
It was an independent release, not bad really:Just wait until the live action Akira hits the theaters!!
I agree, but not because of "traditionally Asian role", but because I understood the character is meant to be and look Japanese.I don't think many people will understand outside of us Asians who constantly see caucasians getting casted into a traditionally Asian role (anime to live action). It is pretty frustrating, I rather it be at least a bit closer to the source material when it comes to the characters.
I don't think many people will understand outside of us Asians who constantly see caucasians getting casted into a traditionally Asian role (anime to live action). It is pretty frustrating, I rather it be at least a bit closer to the source material when it comes to the characters.
But otherwise, I would ask you, are you outraged that in Chinese language films that there aren't more white and black actors in "traditionally white or black roles"? In China recently a movie released called "The Mermaid", and this is taken from white mythology, as it comes from European culture. Is it wrong that they have an all Chinese cast, or is it OK because just as Western civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically European, Chinese civilization is culturally and primarily ethnically Chinese?