Microsoft Wants To Crush Google Home And Amazon Echo With Home Hub

Megalith

Megalith

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So if I’m reading this right, Home Hub is a software-based approach to controlling and sharing information throughout your home built into Windows 10, and it can take the place of standalone devices like the Echo. How do I get excited about this stuff, though? Can’t you do the same things using a smartphone, since there is basically an app for everything?

Home Hub isn't a dedicated device that's designed to take on the likes of the Amazon Echo and Google Home, as in the end, Home Hub is just the software. But that software can do everything the Amazon Echo and Google Home devices can, but with one added benefit: a screen. Home Hub is designed to run on Windows 10 PCs, mainly All-In-Ones and 2-in-1's with touch screens, but can work on any Windows 10 machine. Pen and ink support are also part of the plan. Adding a screen to these smart devices makes these things so much more approachable and useful, especially to families. Microsoft's end goal with Home Hub is to make shared PCs much more communal and helpful for multiple people that have to use them.
 
Not if you own a Windows phone. There are no apps for anything then ;) ( looking at my windows phone).

So basically they are going to expand on Cortana.
 
People like gadgets, they don't want to walk over to the PC (which may be turned off) just to do simple things like the other hubs.
 
Ocellaris said:
People like gadgets, they don't want to walk over to the PC (which may be turned off) just to do simple things like the other hubs.
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Which is 100% true, at first I couldn't figure out why people bother with the echo when you can just ask your smart phone the same thing. But then after thinking about it some, it is easier to just have the device there always on and always listening. How else can Google record everything you say in your house for use to directing ads at you. Hears you having sex and then next time you sign on ads for Trojan ;)

While the concept sounds great of having something that brings all your windows 10 devices (pc, xbox one, phone..) together to control everything in the house in the same way they still need to have some standalone device. Otherwise it isn't the same thing.
 
Why anyone would want a device or piece of software constantly listening to everything, while always being connected to the internet is beyond my ability to comprehend. No thanks, to any of it. I realize smart phones are very close to this as-is but I'm slightly trusting that they aren't listening all the time (perhaps I'm wrong).
 
No kidding. I have a smart things hub with a few dozen sensors and lights hooked into it. Just bought a few echos at 40 bucks a pop, they let me control my lights, TV, etc, just by speaking wherever I happen to be. I don't need to worry about where the echo is, patch level, what applications are running or anything.

Tying it in with a piece of hardware I have to manage completely defeats the purpose.

Maybe if I couldn't get an echo for 40 or 50 bucks, this may work as a cheap diy alternative. But that's not the case.
 
I do love my Echo, so I'm game to try this, but in practice I'm not sure I'd want my friends yelling at my PC to activate various functions while I'm using it around them, especially not if it brings up any large visual indicators that obscure the screen.
 
Taco said:
No kidding. I have a smart things hub with a few dozen sensors and lights hooked into it. Just bought a few echos at 40 bucks a pop, they let me control my lights, TV, etc, just by speaking wherever I happen to be. I don't need to worry about where the echo is, patch level, what applications are running or anything.

Tying it in with a piece of hardware I have to manage completely defeats the purpose.

Maybe if I couldn't get an echo for 40 or 50 bucks, this may work as a cheap diy alternative. But that's not the case.
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Do you control a Bluetooth speaker with the Echo? I am getting my SmartThings hub tomorrow, and a Bluetooth speaker/exhaust fan for the bathroom. I'd love to tell Echo to play Pandora but not throughout the house, only in the bathroom (where the Echo would be located).
 
simko1ra said:
Why anyone would want a device or piece of software constantly listening to everything, while always being connected to the internet is beyond my ability to comprehend. No thanks, to any of it. I realize smart phones are very close to this as-is but I'm slightly trusting that they aren't listening all the time (perhaps I'm wrong).
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You are wrong, both iOS and Android have active listening capability. I'm not aware of any modern Android phones recently released that doesn't support Google Now.
 
I think these hubs are just another smartwatch like craze. These things do essentially the same as your smartphone, but don't even come with a screen. Just another gadget for the sheeple to buy, get data-mined from and buy stuff even more easily that they don't need.
 
Dk975 said:
I think these hubs are just another smartwatch like craze. These things do essentially the same as your smartphone, but don't even come with a screen. Just another gadget for the sheeple to buy, get data-mined from and buy stuff even more easily that they don't need.
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So, half the shit that we buy on [H]ardForum. Just another cool gadget to play with. Like a Raspberry Pi, etc..

I love them. Fun stuff. It's still in the early stages of home automation, though. I expect it to grow even more. The privacy part is a bit alarming, and it's difficult to find a good in-home solution that doesn't rely on someone else's server...
 
Ur_Mom said:
Do you control a Bluetooth speaker with the Echo? I am getting my SmartThings hub tomorrow, and a Bluetooth speaker/exhaust fan for the bathroom. I'd love to tell Echo to play Pandora but not throughout the house, only in the bathroom (where the Echo would be located).
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I have several Sonos speakers, Sonos is supposedly working on deep integration between the two for 2017, but for now I use the Sonos app to control the speakers. I can use the Echos to turn speakers off and on, but that's about it.

I had Sonos well before I started my foray into a smart home. Same with my nest protects and thermostats. If I had to do it again I'd stay clear of nest. They are very nice as stand alone devices, but integration with SmartThings and other smart controllers is garbage. I had to install third party apps on my hub to allow basic integration. Not the case with their competitors.
 
Dk975 said:
I think these hubs are just another smartwatch like craze. These things do essentially the same as your smartphone, but don't even come with a screen. Just another gadget for the sheeple to buy, get data-mined from and buy stuff even more easily that they don't need.
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This is just not true if you have a fleshed out smart home or you are using them simply for speaker integration. I just turned off every light in my house and turned on my Sonos while lying in bed and my phone not in the room with me. I can also turn the TV on or off, dim the lights by percentage and turn my ceiling fan on or off, setting the speed, set upstairs or downstairs Thermostat temperature. And countless more things. All by voice. 40 or 50 bucks to buy an Echo? Bargain.

Of course, anyone that uses the phrase sheeple is generally talking out of their ass.
 
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These devices just seem to promote laziness. Of course, when the robots take most of the jobs, most people will be forced into laziness. I guess those future robots are just going to be the ultimate devices to promote laziness.
 
"Crush" and Want go good together. Just look at Bing compared with Google. Google will win, people use Windows 10 because they have to.
 
But are people actually buying these things?

It seems like an awful amount of fighting over a shitty market. Who wants a voice controlled home anyway? Shit is annoying as fuck.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
But are people actually buying these things?

It seems like an awful amount of fighting over a shitty market. Who wants a voice controlled home anyway? Shit is annoying as fuck.
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People are buying the Amazon Echo devices, yes. Amazon's running away with this market.

Microsoft meanwhile is a day late and dollar short to a new consumer segment, as usual. In fairness though Google has also been asleep here.

Microsoft doesn't understand that PC users aren't interested in voice assisted anything, so this will go nowhere just like Cortana.
 
I've got the Amazon echo and have a few Amazon Fire TVs as well as media on my Amazon account (+Prime), but the advantage I see is that Google has so much raw data on everyone that a home hub run by them plus access to their search capabilities will be so much more effective. Google already knows my search history, where I work, where I live, where I go, when I go anywhere (via android phone geolocation data), access to my workout / exercise data - if they could access my credit card purchase history / data, they would know me better than my own mother. Ecommerce wise, Amazon still has the slight advantage since I'm so tied into buying through the Amazon ecosystem, but for everything else, Google tops them all for sure.
 
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Please Microsoft. Please combine Cortana with Hololens.

Can you imagine waking up to this:

Cortana1.jpg
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
But are people actually buying these things?

It seems like an awful amount of fighting over a shitty market. Who wants a voice controlled home anyway? Shit is annoying as fuck.
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It's a new market to open up to.

These devices require a massive supported network in order to work and that's why Google, Amazon and Microsoft is coming out with them. Easier to implement for them and open up a new market. Hardware wise there isnt much R&D just of the software side.

If they can keep opening up ways to connect people to share their content then they could theoretically do better. Again this is a very cheap thing for them to open up, so why not?
 
Home Hub isn't a dedicated device that's designed to take on the likes of the Amazon Echo and Google Home, as in the end, Home Hub is just the software.
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Well that's great. So what ethereal box runs this software, or does the software just process itself on good vibes and unicorn sperm?

You know it's a good idea to make your computer the center of it all. It's a good thing we don't have sleep or power saving features which shuts down the computer to conserve energy.

Nothing is better than this, "Cortana open my front door." Cortana responds with, "Sure ope..erk... Configuring Updates, Shutting Down Windows, Do not turn off your computer." That's just so well thought out. You know because no one goes out to a bar and comes home at 3AM and attempts to gain access to their domicile.

It's a good thing we don't have tons of people telling everyone not to bitch about Microsoft's retarded software update procedures and how easy it is to turn off Automatic Updates in case... you know it provides an update to secure your OS from people hacking the crap out of your home. ;)
 
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On the hardware front, both Amazon and Google already do their own hardware + software, so not sure who else MS could possibly target to develop hardware for them ... that would be able to do better than Google or Amazon for reasons I've already stated above (namely access to specific background user data, Google for pretty much everything and Amazon for all of your buying / ecommerce related if you are already an Amazon eco-system user).
 
Ur_Mom said:
So, half the shit that we buy on [H]ardForum. Just another cool gadget to play with. Like a Raspberry Pi, etc..

I love them. Fun stuff. It's still in the early stages of home automation, though. I expect it to grow even more. The privacy part is a bit alarming, and it's difficult to find a good in-home solution that doesn't rely on someone else's server...
Click to expand...

HomeSeer. Doesn't need a connection to the internet at all. Been using it for years and the stuff I do with it puts all of the "hubs" to SHAME.
 
OEM said:
"Sorry, can't turn on your TV or lights, I'm doing an update. Try again in 2 hours."

I'll pass. Fuck you, MS.
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Sorry but, Google has discontinued that service and you can no longer use all that expensive stuff you bought, buy the newest stuff, good luck.
 
I don't think Microsoft will succeed in this but competition is always good to drive innovation. I hope they succeed for the sake of better technology.
 
One EMP can set us back 100 years, pre electricity and all these gadgets will become paperweights.
 
ManofGod said:
Sorry but, Google has discontinued that service and you can no longer use all that expensive stuff you bought, buy the newest stuff, good luck.
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I didn't say I was pro google products.

But, then I looked who posted what I quoted and realized who you are. Its cute you think MS wouldn't abandon something people spend money on. Ever heard of the Zune?
 
OEM said:
I didn't say I was pro google products.

But, then I looked who posted what I quoted and realized who you are. Its cute you think MS wouldn't abandon something people spend money on. Ever heard of the Zune?
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Never said you were pro google products but, lets not let something like reality get in the way of what happens, ok? ;)
 
simko1ra said:
Why anyone would want a device or piece of software constantly listening to everything, while always being connected to the internet is beyond my ability to comprehend. No thanks, to any of it. I realize smart phones are very close to this as-is but I'm slightly trusting that they aren't listening all the time (perhaps I'm wrong).
Click to expand...


Not only is it listening to everything in the room, its sending that data to their servers for processing. These tiny devices can't process that audio fast enough, so all your audio is going to their servers... Every sound in your room is going to their servers.... I will never have a device like this, and only get mics with a physical on/off switch that remains off when not in use... Oh, this is the same thing that siri, google and cortana does.

Just think of how close we are to V for vendeta government spying times... Except they don't have to drive around with a high powered mic spying, everyone already has a listening device in their homes that amazon/apple/google/MS secretly allows them to tap into the data.... I hope I'm wrong, but you are naive to think it's not a possibility, especially with the leaks about the spying they already do.
 
Biznatch said:
Not only is it listening to everything in the room, its sending that data to their servers for processing. These tiny devices can't process that audio fast enough, so all your audio is going to their servers... Every sound in your room is going to their servers.... I will never have a device like this, and only get mics with a physical on/off switch that remains off when not in use... Oh, this is the same thing that siri, google and cortana does.

Just think of how close we are to V for vendeta government spying times... Except they don't have to drive around with a high powered mic spying, everyone already has a listening device in their homes that amazon/apple/google/MS secretly allows them to tap into the data.... I hope I'm wrong, but you are naive to think it's not a possibility, especially with the leaks about the spying they already do.
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With the echo from watching my router, it only activates a higher band of communication once the 'wake word' is triggered. The wake word is processed locally, once that is triggered all audio gets offloaded to their network until the unit goes to sleep (command completed). Otherwise I just see each echo ping about 1kb every 10 seconds or so.
 
Taco said:
No kidding. I have a smart things hub with a few dozen sensors and lights hooked into it. Just bought a few echos at 40 bucks a pop, they let me control my lights, TV, etc, just by speaking wherever I happen to be. I don't need to worry about where the echo is, patch level, what applications are running or anything.

Tying it in with a piece of hardware I have to manage completely defeats the purpose.

Maybe if I couldn't get an echo for 40 or 50 bucks, this may work as a cheap diy alternative. But that's not the case.
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Agree. The Amazon Dots are cheap and relatively maintenance free. I have several scattered around my house now. Running on a computer would not be practical (and use a lot of power).
 
Darunion said:
With the echo from watching my router, it only activates a higher band of communication once the 'wake word' is triggered. The wake word is processed locally, once that is triggered all audio gets offloaded to their network until the unit goes to sleep (command completed). Otherwise I just see each echo ping about 1kb every 10 seconds or so.
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I think that's essentially how they all work. What you say once the activation phrase all the audio is transmitted but not before. If people are concerned that these kinds of devices are all about spying then sure I get why one wouldn't use them. But the stuff is pretty cool nonetheless. I use Cortana all of the time for web searches, reminders, opening programs, sending text messages, etc.

As for the dedicated device, a cheap Windows tablet could be that device with the added benefit of a screen. But without a specific device I don't see how it would resonate with consumers the same way.
 
I still don't see the benefit of these hub devices. Is the only point to be able to turn on/off lights and change the thermostat with your voice? And that's assuming you spend the additional money to buy the wifi/bluetooth adapters for the lights/thermostat/whatever device you want to control?
 
Xrave said:
I still don't see the benefit of these hub devices. Is the only point to be able to turn on/off lights and change the thermostat with your voice? And that's assuming you spend the additional money to buy the wifi/bluetooth adapters for the lights/thermostat/whatever device you want to control?
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You can control music to, and automate some stuff, but yeah, that's pretty much it.

(The more IOT devices you have, the more you open yourself up to exploits too)

That, and speaking to a device is always more annoying than just getting your lazy ass up and flipping the damned switch. You don't have to worry about background noise interfering, accidentally issuing the wrong command, or having to repeat yourself multiple times.

If you ask me, anything voice control - whether it is on a phone, on a computer or on a home device - just creates more problems and frustrations than it is worth.

The expectation is to have Star Trek TNG like "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot"-style accuracy, but this is not a reality.
 
Xrave said:
I still don't see the benefit of these hub devices. Is the only point to be able to turn on/off lights and change the thermostat with your voice? And that's assuming you spend the additional money to buy the wifi/bluetooth adapters for the lights/thermostat/whatever device you want to control?
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Often I use it to check the weather or my schedule for the day while getting dressed in the morning for work. It is nice for coming home late as it detects sunset and my arrival and turns on my porch light and entry way lights. At night I can verbally shut off all lights in the house (the first time you don't get out of bed to shut a light off, it almost pays for itself lol).

Yes as said music is nice "alexa, play some 80s rock" and there we go. And the normal use of google, or game schedule can be checked as well. Yes I really want the star trek feel, as I shouldn't be stopping what I am doing to pull my phone out of my pocket, and in many cases hands are full and I need info on something.

Haven't used it to buy anything though, not sure I have a use for that.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
The expectation is to have Star Trek TNG like "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot"-style accuracy, but this is not a reality.
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I just tried that with Cortana "Hey Cortana, Tea, Earl Grey, Hot". It turned it into a web search for "T Earl Grey Hot" but it did return at the top of the searches material on the Star Trek reference. It's not perfect, but generally the recognition is great. It's more than practical for a number of activities.
 
Xrave said:
I still don't see the benefit of these hub devices. Is the only point to be able to turn on/off lights and change the thermostat with your voice? And that's assuming you spend the additional money to buy the wifi/bluetooth adapters for the lights/thermostat/whatever device you want to control?
Click to expand...


And that's the big thing. Most of these systems are glorified remote controls for light switches. Home automation can be done in a way that it does simplify life. It's all about sensor density. When I get in bed my system turns off the lights, locks the door and puts my PC to sleep for example. Or if my calendar has work scheduled for the day the system wakes me up not with an alarm (which it could do) or by talking to me (which it can also do in any room of the house and outside via in-wall/ceiling speakers) but by slowly ramping the lights in my room up from 0 - 100% over 30 minutes. And the house is already warm. It shut the heat off after I'd been in bed for a while. That right there is priceless to me. I can talk to it and tell it to do things but I very rarely do. That's just a novelty. My opinion is that if you have to touch a light switch or a thermostat (or the remote control for one) you're doing it wrong.
 
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