Will Amazon Kill FedEx?

DigitalGriffin said:

As such if Amazon develops their own shipping, FedEx and UPS will not suffer for it that much.

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$12bil in shipping is quite the market to lose. This isn't UPS/FedEx losing the home portion of the shipping which they may barely break even, this is them losing it all. Amazon is rolling out planes, has their own trucks/trailers, and now outsources with an Uber like delivery system. No matter how you cut it, that's a huge client to lose, especially since the volume of Amazon was so great they had to use UPS/OverNite/FedEx/DHL/USPS just to maintain demand.

Bowman15 said:

LOL...you have no idea what I do or where I live and how that relates to my cost of living...I take it economic wage factors is not your strong suit.

They choose that occupation for fucks sake. Nobody is making them do that their entire life. Union's have ruined the paper industry in my area, which basically fucked this generation and the next due to the out of line wages even the lowest broom pushers received. Those kinds of services were never meant to be career long at $30 hr! Why do you think they are having issues breaking even delivering to residential customers. Your sense of entitlement seems a bit warped here. LOL

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Then go pay them $12 hour. Good luck filling the positions. Residential delivery will be dead for sure then. You obviously do not understand economics. There is a great demand for delivery services right now due to the online market. What happens when something is in demand? Price goes up. The cost of the business goes up, cost of your shipping goes up.

Get rid of the union. Do you believe that when you do that that you will fill these positions at a low wage and have people who actually give a shit about your package or the contents (not that all drivers do now, but for ho wmany packages get handled daily, its pretty positive)? Enjoy receiving your box busted open and goods stolen all the time from disgruntled employees. When you are paying an employee to deliver tens of thousands of dollars in good daily, how many more packages do you think will come up "missing" after delivery? I know UPS/FedEx leave packages at my door multiple times a week sometimes. I have never had a package that was "delivered" and not there. Go pay your employee a shit wage and see if every package shows up.

Then what happens when packages go missing? The company starts eating the cost. Then what happens? Shipping prices go up. So rather than have all that shit to deal with, why not pay the employees a wage they are happy with and (for the most part) will be honest and hard working? Oh wait, but I do not understand anything economic.....

Im sure Amazon is paying their people a dogshit low wage which is probably the reason that 3 out of my last 4 packages delivered by "amazon delivery" were late.

The 40 hour work week and minimum wage are far more complex than "Henry Ford did it." Wikipedia it or see this explanation which evaluates the claims of the meme that seems to be referenced in some of the posts above: Does the 8-hour day and the 40-hour week come from Henry Ford, or labor unions? (tl;dr some limited work week laws predated Ford, and Ford wasn't widely copied. Widespread minimum wage and limited work weeks mostly came from laws passed, not union negotiations or Ford, although both were partly influential.)

I'm a feeder dispatcher for UPS (semi-drivers) and you guys saying that $30 an hour is ridiculous have no idea what these guys go through day in and day out.

First, there is no 8hr work day. They all work around 11-12 hours a day (total, not drive time).

Second, have you ever had to hook sets up (two smaller trailers with a dolly connecting them) in small centers or customer pickups with tiny parking lots? That is some skill that I'll probably never achieve.

Third, they make around $36/hr

I'm not as familiar with our package drivers, but I know that job is way harder on the body. My buddy does that and all I ever hear is how awful it is. Good pay, but life is hell kind of deal.


We also charge the most to ship stuff. I can't vouch for those package guys in the small brown trucks because there is a million of them, but Fed Ex or other contractors don't come close to our feeder drivers.

doz said:

Then go pay them $12 hour. Good luck filling the positions. Residential delivery will be dead for sure then. You obviously do not understand economics. There is a great demand for delivery services right now due to the online market. What happens when something is in demand? Price goes up. The cost of the business goes up, cost of your shipping goes up.

Get rid of the union. Do you believe that when you do that that you will fill these positions at a low wage and have people who actually give a shit about your package or the contents (not that all drivers do now, but for ho wmany packages get handled daily, its pretty positive)? Enjoy receiving your box busted open and goods stolen all the time from disgruntled employees. When you are paying an employee to deliver tens of thousands of dollars in good daily, how many more packages do you think will come up "missing" after delivery? I know UPS/FedEx leave packages at my door multiple times a week sometimes. I have never had a package that was "delivered" and not there. Go pay your employee a shit wage and see if every package shows up.

Then what happens when packages go missing? The company starts eating the cost. Then what happens? Shipping prices go up. So rather than have all that shit to deal with, why not pay the employees a wage they are happy with and (for the most part) will be honest and hard working? Oh wait, but I do not understand anything economic.....

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People making $36 hr now don't give a shit now about delivering packages. Try a Google search for delivery horror stories. And you are stuck on this $12 hr thing when that is just a random number. Yes I believe that most Unions need to be gone as they've gotten way to powerful for what they were meant to be, i.e., $30 hr for a delivery person is outrageous. They didn't always make that wage and somehow we all got out packages. Economically you can't see the forest for the trees' and that the bubble will actually break at some point because they can't continue to pay those ridiculous wages without drastically cutting the work force or restructuring.

Oh wait, but I do not understand anything economic

I agree with that part yes.

aeonrevolution said:

I'm a feeder dispatcher for UPS (semi-drivers) and you guys saying that $30 an hour is ridiculous have no idea what these guys go through day in and day out.

First, there is no 8hr work day. They all work around 11-12 hours a day (total, not drive time).

Second, have you ever had to hook sets up (two smaller trailers with a dolly connecting them) in small centers or customer pickups with tiny parking lots? That is some skill that I'll probably never achieve.

Third, they make around $36/hr

I'm not as familiar with our package drivers, but I know that job is way harder on the body. My buddy does that and all I ever hear is how awful it is. Good pay, but life is hell kind of deal.


We also charge the most to ship stuff. I can't vouch for those package guys in the small brown trucks because there is a million of them, but Fed Ex or other contractors don't come close to our feeder drivers.

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Yes, but they are not "educated" so they do not deserve it. Just ask Bowman who is sad that he chose a low paying career.

And the horror stores you hear Bowman? Yeah, there are bad seeds in EVERY profession. There are doctors out there who make $500,000/year and take shortcuts and damage peoples health. It happens, its part of being human. In the overall grand scheme, the amount of packages delivered safely compared to destroyed/stolen is not even a blip on the radar. I would say that over the last 15 years, Id estimate that I have had around 2500 packages delivered (probably more). Of those, only 2 have had damage and none have been stolen. While my sample is very small, at the same time it is very big.

But continue to hate on UPS drivers for making more than you.

As a frame of reference to estimate how many packages are damaged IN the hub, which is where the vast majority of them are damaged, here is an example.

The frequency goal that is set for damaged packages is to allow 1/15,000 to be damaged out. The actual results usually end up in the ballpark of 1/30k-40k depending on the time of year and sometimes just plain bad luck. One 4 hour sort processes about 200k packages.


This is the kind of info I have that really bombs on first dates because no one cares

doz said:

Yes, but they are not "educated" so they do not deserve it. Just ask Bowman who is sad that he chose a low paying career.

And the horror stores you hear Bowman? Yeah, there are bad seeds in EVERY profession. There are doctors out there who make $500,000/year and take shortcuts and damage peoples health. It happens, its part of being human. In the overall grand scheme, the amount of packages delivered safely compared to destroyed/stolen is not even a blip on the radar. I would say that over the last 15 years, Id estimate that I have had around 2500 packages delivered (probably more). Of those, only 2 have had damage and none have been stolen. While my sample is very small, at the same time it is very big.

But continue to hate on UPS drivers for making more than you.

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Wow, are you like 12 years old or what? I don't hate anybody and a higher wage doesn't automatically make you care more about your job? How long do you think that gravy train is going to last for that UPS person(s) and the wages they make before something drastically happens and not in a good way. It has nothing to do whether they deserve it or not. I'm going to stop now before you sink even lower.= with the insults.

PS: And to aeonrevolution, good luck while the gravy train lasts.

Bowman15 said:

Wow, are you like 12 years old or what? I don't hate anybody and a higher wage doesn't automatically make you care more about your job? How long do you think that gravy train is going to last for that UPS person(s) and the wages they make before something drastically happens and not in a good way. It has nothing to do whether they deserve it or not. I'm going to stop now before you sink even lower.= with the insults.

PS: And to aeonrevolution, good luck while the gravy train lasts.

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Insults? You were the one who brought up the UPS man making more than you do as a "professional".....

Either way, they get paid what they do because of the wear and tear on the body and the fact that they handle millions of dollars worth of goods every year. You cannot pay someone a low wage and trust them.

doz said:

Insults? You were the one who brought up the UPS man making more than you do as a "professional".....

Either way, they get paid what they do because of the wear and tear on the body and the fact that they handle millions of dollars worth of goods every year. You cannot pay someone a low wage and trust them.

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LOL...wtf, how was that an insult to anything. It was just a point of reference as to the absurdity of the UPS wage scale? You are the one that turned it into an insult. What is wrong with you?

I don't really see why you think the wage is absurd. I know pipefitters and carpenters who are also in the same wage ballpark. There are lots of manual labor jobs that command an income in that range.

aeonrevolution said:

I don't really see why you think the wage is absurd. I know pipefitters and carpenters who are also in the same wage ballpark. There are lots of manual labor jobs that command an income in that range.

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Well, pipe fitter and carpenters are skilled labor. You can't just hire any able bodied person off the street with a drivers license, and a clean driving record to do those jobs.

The reason it stands out for package delivery is because there isn't much in the way of skill involved. As long as you have a drivers license, it is a job that just about anyone could do. because the prospective employee pool is so large (huge supply), one would expect supply and demand to drive the wages for the job downwards.

Zarathustra[H] said:

Well, pipe fitter and carpenters are skilled labor. You can't just hire any able bodied person off the street with a drivers license, and a clean driving record to do those jobs.

The reason it stands out for package delivery is because there isn't much in the way of skill involved. As long as you have a drivers license, it is a job that just about anyone could do. because the prospective employee pool is so large (huge supply), one would expect supply and demand to drive the wages for the job downwards.

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Considering what I see driving around me every day & how my company treats any sort of vehicle accidents...I'd say having a good/perfect driving record while racking up that many miles a day is a lot more of a rare skill than folk understand.