Projector or TV?

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///AMG

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I am looking at buying a 70"+ TV for my new house to put in the family room but I am looking and at the prices the 70" are selling for it seems a projector might get the same price. I was just wondering if there are projectors that work well in a well lit environment. I'd like to get the best combo of size and picture quality so when I invite people over for a game or something they can enjoy it anywhere in the family room and kitchen.

Is TV still the best option or can a projector work?

For reference by well lit I mean the family room will have light coming from these windows:
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I basically have a huge wall that I can fit a 120" screen.
 
Full sun through those windows will be difficult to deal with, and also keep in mind that the larger the screen, the more light output you need.

If you want to go the projector route, you need to look at "living room" versus "home theater" projectors. Depending on the price level, you will most likely need to sacrifice color accuracy to get the necessary brightness. (Low-cost projectors usually achieve high-lumen output via a manipulated color wheel.) You'll also most likely need a very high gain screen, which will also impact color accuracy.

All this being said, I am not saying that the color accuracy of such a setup will be unlivable, but you should not expect performance on par with projected images in dedicated theater rooms.

http://www.avsforum.com/
http://www.projectorcentral.com/

The sites I linked above (and others) are good resources for further information, and I would check them out. Research will help you decide on a direction to take.

Optoma HD25-LV
Optoma HD26

The above may be good options for a price point under $1,000. (But a good, high-gain, screen will cost you as well!)
 
Projector. You wont go back to TV, unless you need to have it on all the time. If you are like me and mostly enjoy dedicated watching, I think it is worth your time and money. No more dealing with 60 inch screens, go 120 like you say. It gives your viewing experience much more depth and immersion. Sure the blackpoint is not quite there yet compared to the best displays. But projectors have come a long long way in terms of IQ, the last ten years. Also you or your wife might like not having a big black rectangle hanging on the wall. I certainly like how clean my living room looks without a big TV on the wall.

To control the light I have white curtains with black dark sunblock fabric inside. They look nice and work extremely well. Also keep in mind that new projectors do very well in relatively bright rooms.

Great links by Tesla by the way.
 
I have an Optoma HD33 with a 120" 16:9 homemade screen, I will never go back to a regular tv. It's in my (relatively) bright living room. The trick is to get blackout curtains and to get a projector that puts out high lumens. A high gain screen will help as well. I have no problems watching the tv with the room lights on. During the day if I want to watch, I'll just close the curtains and it blocks out a lot of light.

projectorcentral has a throw calculator that will really help you get a feel for how bright you need vs throw distance and screen gain.

The only downsides to projector, aside from light management: bulb life. I've replaced the bulb in my optoma after 700 hours. The bare bulb cost 70 bucks and took about 30 minutes to install. it's not that bad, but it is an added cost and annoyance. The brightness does decrease throughout the bulb's life as well. the other downside is the amount of research and calculation you have to do to pick the one that's right for you. It's not as easy as just throwing it up on the wall. It's worth it though, good luck
 
Be aware of hidden costs on projectors. Its not only the screen, you'll need a good set of speakers or better yet home theater. Even the best projectors have shitty speakers. Then there's the installation and setup. Which you can save if you DIY.

There's also lamps even though they now last longer and somewhat cheaper.

Stay away from LED projectors, they suck even in dim lit rooms.

And skip cheap projectors. Those sub $300 dlls 1000+ lumen "HD" are not worth a damn.
 
Stoly said:
Be aware of hidden costs on projectors. Its not only the screen, you'll need a good set of speakers or better yet home theater. Even the best projectors have shitty speakers. Then there's the installation and setup. Which you can save if you DIY.

There's also lamps even though they now last longer and somewhat cheaper.

Stay away from LED projectors, they suck even in dim lit rooms.

And skip cheap projectors. Those sub $300 dlls 1000+ lumen "HD" are not worth a damn.
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I have the room pre-wired for speakers so all I have to do is buy the speakers I want and mount it. My Budget is $2500 for the projector and screen which is all I really need or $2500 for the TV. Trying to weigh the options, I will though get a projector for my theater/media room which I have also pre-wired and just needs projector and screen as well, the budget for that room though is a little higher but I kind of already know what I want for that room but it has no window so I dont worry about brightness.

I think $2000 for the projector and $500 for the screen? Just need to find one that works in well lit rooms, and if I cant Ill pick up a TV during BF.
 
Projectors will ruin watching a normal TV for you. :p I have a mid-range Sony one with a 120" screen and couldn't go back. Don't forget to budget for a decent mount. With a high ceiling like that you'll probably want a wall mount instead of a ceiling mount. This is the one I got because my projector is quite large and 30lbs: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/WMA2S. I hung off it to test it and it had no problem supporting my entire weight (I'm a bit under 150lbs). If you go with one like that, you'll need an extension pole and bracket as well. There are projector specific ones instead of universal ones too (here's mine: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/SLB020).

So, depending on what kind of projector you get, a mount might run you $200ish if you go with one like the one I've linked. Screen doesn't have to cost $500 either. I spent $200ish on mine (a fixed one). Here's what mine looked like when set up (please excuse the cabling): http://209.144.20.13/misc/projector/P1100659.jpg
 
I'm not planning on a ceiling mount I plan on a wall mount at the back of the room. Im thinking about the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 3500 since it is well reviewed and my brother in law has had a good experience with Epson in his theater room. For my theater room I am thinking about the Sony VPL-HW40ES.

Now I think I need to look at audio equipment.
 
That Sony is about the same size as mine, so the mount I linked would be a perfect match. Can answer any questions about it you might have. Not too familiar with the Epson, but I don't think it would require anything as hefty. There's also a single stud version of said mount.
 
If you treat your wall nicely, do not bother getting a screen for the living room. Spend that on audio equipment for the home theater. Also good luck with the audio research in the endless sea of audio solutions. Make sure to see different screens in action - there is a lot of money to be saved here. You do not get a lot of IQ for your money with expensive screens, so make sure to find an appropriate level.
 
Since you already have a dedicated media room with plans for a home theater I would get a TV for this room. No need to worry about controlling ambient light and it's much easier to use a TV for casual viewing. Stretch you budget by $500 and you can get an 80" TV.
 
For that much light I might go with a large tv. Since your going to have a media room. If not your going to want a positive gain screen and a bright projector. I just upgraded my optoma hd25e (for sale on the forum) to an Epson 5030ub. There both light cannons when running in bright mode. Running bright mode does mess up the colors a bit they have a good bit of color shift. On the Epson it shifts to green ish. But if your in that bright of a room you really won't notice it much. And at night you can change it to a different preset and turn the bulb down to eco to get a better picture. If you get a dlp there very light and easy to mount.
 
deadlift1 said:
Since you already have a dedicated media room with plans for a home theater I would get a TV for this room. No need to worry about controlling ambient light and it's much easier to use a TV for casual viewing. Stretch you budget by $500 and you can get an 80" TV.
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I havent seen any good 80" TVs for $3k. If you can point me to one so I can research.
 
We replaced our 52" LCD with a 120" screen and Benq W1080st. It's awesome, but there's a lot of compromises. I had to paint the walls and ceiling gray to cut down on reflections which lowered contrast. And our room is already pretty well controlled for light. Even at night, blacks are not as dark as an LCD. I had to buy a screen, mount, and speakers/receiver which added a fair bit to the cost. If you're watching DVD or streaming quality material from Netflix, you can see defects pretty easily - you won't want to watch anything that's not HD, and preferably uncompressed bluray.

For the windows you have, you'll definitely need some blackout shades that can be closed, or get a roll-up screen that mounts above the windows. Also your wife won't be thrilled with all this nonsense.
 
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soupcxan said:
We replaced our 52" LCD with a 120" screen and Benq W1080st. It's awesome, but there's a lot of compromises. I had to paint the walls and ceiling gray to cut down on reflections which lowered contrast. And our room is already pretty well controlled for light. Even at night, blacks are not as dark as an LCD. I had to buy a screen, mount, and speakers/receiver which added a fair bit to the cost. If you're watching DVD or streaming quality material from Netflix, you can see defects pretty easily - you won't want to watch anything that's not HD, and preferably uncompressed bluray.

For the windows you have, you'll definitely need some blackout shades that can be closed, or get a roll-up screen that mounts above the windows. Also your wife won't be thrilled with all this nonsense.
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See was wondering about people's experience in a lit room. Also not married, very single at the moment so I have no one to tell me no.
 
Buy both. They are cheap enough now that you should just get both.
 
///AMG said:
See was wondering about people's experience in a lit room. Also not married, very single at the moment so I have no one to tell me no.
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For a large open room with two stories of windows like the pic you posted, I think you'd be happier with an LCD honestly.
 
I have a Benq W1070 and will also never go back to a regular TV for my main gaming and movie watching. Judging by the sweet ass house your building you can probably buy both lol.
 
Either LCD or you will need a LOT of lumens from a projector. I'd say at least 3000 lumens, unless you're willing to put heavy shades (blackout cloth, perhaps) and use them every time you want to watch stuff.

Also keep in mind you'll need to replace the lamp probably yearly at a typical cost of $300-600 depending on brand/model. And as someone else mentioned, a separate sound system becomes a requirement rather than a strong recommendation.

That said, I do regret dumping my projector for a plasma TV a few years back. The plasma TV has better colors but I miss the 100" screen.

Oh, and if you get a TV, go LCD and not plasma as LCD is better in sunlight.
 
The only way a projector will work in that room for standard TV viewing is if you doubled your budget. Screen Inovations makes a screen that works in those lighting conditions and its expensive:
http://www.screeninnovations.com/residential-zero-edge/7-series-zero-edge-residential/

If you want a projector, put it in a room without a lot of ambient light, in a room where you can cover up the windows and paint the walls and ceiling a dark color, with dark carpet. Get a TV for the living room unless you're loaded and prepared to buy a prosumer projector and $3000 screen for the novelty of having a projector in the living room.
 
Never pay $3k for a screen - that's just ridiculous. Always build your own screen. You can use high gain paint if you want it.
 
I've sprayed several screens using custom paint mixes from the professionals at AVSForum on hardboard, sintra, flexiwhite and on drywall. They work great when you can somewhat control the ambient light but they do not work great in a contemporary living room during daytime, the linked screen however does do a decent job.
 
dandragonrage said:
Never pay $3k for a screen - that's just ridiculous. Always build your own screen. You can use high gain paint if you want it.
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This is a silly comment.
Plenty of reference setups demand specific screens given specific lighting conditions.
 
Here are some pics of my set up in the living room.

Hd33 with 12ft throw, home made screen made out of a frame and blackout cloth, at night with blackout curtains on the main Windows, I have Windows in the kitchen ( to the left, and the front door, also to the left). I'll try to see if I have any pics with lights on our during the day.
As you can see it's not perfect in bright scenes, there's is a lot if reflection from the light paint. I'm happy with it though. During the day I tend to watch with the blackout curtains drawn and no overhead lights there us still some light from the kitchen and dint door, but it's still dark enough imo. Same with overhead lights at night, although it fuss look a little washed out. There are compromises when you don't go full on theater room.



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Zangmonkey said:
This is a silly comment.
Plenty of reference setups demand specific screens given specific lighting conditions.
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I disagree. If you're going for a reference setup, it'll need to be calibrated either way, and as such you can calibrate it to a screen that cost less than $3k, or which is homemade.

I had made a screen from blackout cloth similar to MisterClean's and it was excellent and colors were very, very good. I did calibrate it and I had a Marantz VP-12S4. I also tried RoseBrand's plasticy projection screen material but I liked the blackout cloth more.

In any case my point is not that the $3k screen is bad, just that you don't need to pay $3k for a good screen, especially if you're willing to put in a bit of elbow grease.
 
I love my home made screen it's Wilson's designer white counter top. Looks perfect.no hot spots and sick it's ridged no wrinkles. Got a huge roll from Lowe's for 105 bucks. Looks just as good if not better then screens in the 500 plus range.
 
You're absolutely right that you don't need $3k for a good screen, but look at the OP's situation: he has a brand new house with huge windows in the room hes talking about- a living room at that.

In this day and age that means open floor plans, light colored walls, high ceilings. This isnt a dark living room from the 70's or den, and typically the WAF does not pass black out curtains in such an environment.

The kind of person that makes a projection screen work in such a situation doesn't post on the internet "Should I get a projector or a TV" they post on the internet a series of photos on how they dropped buku $$$ or months of elbow grease transforming their living room into a multi-purpose room.
 
We have a couple of Viewsonic projectors where I work.

One is an PRO8200 (2000 lumins) and then other is an PRO8300 (3000 lumins)

They work pretty well in our conference rooms even when the lights are on and the widows have the blinds open.

We've had them both for around 2 years now and haven't had a single problem with either of them.

I just checked on Newegg, and Viewsonic now has an PRO8520HD which is a whopping 5000 lumins and 8000:1 contrast ratio compared to the lower models which are only 4000:1 contrast ratio.

The PRO8520HD is about $2k, but I think you would probably need the extra lumins and contrast ratio in a well lit room.

Edit: They also make a PJD7820HD. Lumins is "only" 3000, but contrast is 15,000:1.
 
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5000 lumens might be overkill depending on exactly how much light gets through there. Will draw more power, create more heat (which isn't so bad in the winter if you've got heat on in your house anyway but the downside is more fan noise), and worsen your black level. Edit to note: Could also worsen color reproduction depending on which specific model it is.

But when your room is quite bright, the difference from 3k lumens to 5k lumens could potentially be worth it. I would assume he probably won't need 5k. But it's not impossible.
 
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You can't really compare office projectors to home theatre ones. The former sacrifices a considerable amount of picture quality to have high brightness. My Sony one is only rated for 900 lumens and calibrated it's closer to 400.
 
Yeah. My VP-12S4 had a 7-segment color wheel but none of them were white. High-brightness DLP projectors typically have a white segment or two that does not filter color but simply adds more brightness to the image at the cost of color reproduction and saturation. The 7th segment on the 12S4 was a separate shade of green if I remember correctly. Colors looked DAMN good compared to the cheapo XGA Optoma I had before it (resolution was only a little higher than XGA; this was a 720p project I'm talking about, though a good one).

Check out http://www.projectorreviews.com/ and http://www.projectorcentral.com/
 
Thats not to say you can't buy projectors that can pump out those lumens in a home theater setting without sacrificing a ton of picture quality, its just that you have to spend $15,000-$200,000 (such as the offerings from companies like Runco + SIM2)
 
VulcaN said:
You're absolutely right that you don't need $3k for a good screen, but look at the OP's situation: he has a brand new house with huge windows in the room hes talking about- a living room at that.

In this day and age that means open floor plans, light colored walls, high ceilings. This isnt a dark living room from the 70's or den, and typically the WAF does not pass black out curtains in such an environment.

The kind of person that makes a projection screen work in such a situation doesn't post on the internet "Should I get a projector or a TV" they post on the internet a series of photos on how they dropped buku $$$ or months of elbow grease transforming their living room into a multi-purpose room.
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I'm going to have to disagree with you. I didn't spend a grip and my room is perfectly functional as a multi purpose room, and it looks very nice. Baked ceilings, and light painted walls and all. I've never heard any detractors of anyone that's been over. Plus it cost less than 2k for projector, screen, and curtains. It's all about how much work you put into it.
 
So there you have it OP- if you put blackout curtains over both stories of windows, possibly something in the kitchen as well depending how the light bounces around in there and put a lot of work into it, then it might look passable with the Epson set to torch mode.

Since it sounds like you will have a dedicated theater room at some point with a $2500 projector in it, I'd say you go in there for the big games / movies and just throw a TV in the living room that will be more practical day to day, you'll have the best of both worlds.

If you have extra money kicking around later you can always install a screen that rolls down in front of the living room TV for when you want to switch it up.
 
VulcaN said:
So there you have it OP- if you put blackout curtains over both stories of windows, possibly something in the kitchen as well depending how the light bounces around in there and put a lot of work into it, then it might look passable with the Epson set to torch mode.

Since it sounds like you will have a dedicated theater room at some point with a $2500 projector in it, I'd say you go in there for the big games / movies and just throw a TV in the living room that will be more practical day to day, you'll have the best of both worlds.

If you have extra money kicking around later you can always install a screen that rolls down in front of the living room TV for when you want to switch it up.
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Yea well the reason why I made this thread to see if projectors have advanced enough to make it feasible for everyday use in a living room that is well lit. Also the reason why I dont want to have games and by that I mean sports is because I dont want to have food in my theater room so I dont have to vacuum it and clean it up constantly whenever I have friends and family over for one. I would like to keep the sports and games downstairs near the kitchen and I would like everyone in the kitchen and breakfast area to see not just those sitting in the family room.

Also I am not sure how I want to control the light in the room currently. Idk if I want to do drapes or blinds or w/e so I am just saying its going to be well lit.

General idea of how the family room will look like:
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This is where I was planing to mount the projector if I went that route.
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We built a custom house as well and we get tons of light in the media room/ kitchen / dinning room, its one giant room. Blackout curtains will help for sure, but having both TV/Projector is the full proof method. I opted to do a 60" TV, then a 110" drop down screen in front. I found that even when the picture is all washed out from the light on the projector screen the TV will look just as bad.

So anyway you look at it you need to control the light coming in. With that said a projector is too damn awesome, and a motorized screen can be hidden, especially since you are in the building process. I do not have any direct light but I have tons coming in from 3 large windows and a big skylight in the kitchen.

I had to replace the blackout shades I had as they got messed up internally with the cords, but when I had it on just the one window it made it much better, the pictures are a bit off as the brightness is off but these pictures are in a fully bright room, the shades are just light filtering.

Here are some pictures:

TV, Tons of light pouring in. For reference sizing the large window is 8ft x 6ft, and 12ft ceilings.
image.jpg



Projector, Tons of light pouring in.
image.jpg
 
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I was in the same situation. I bought a w1070 and loved it only problem was it looked bad during the day time unless I completely blocked the windows. If you are ok with blocking out all light then go projector.

The issues I had is sometimes I like to put a movie on and tinker on things so having the light on was necessary which made the projector pretty bad for viewing.

So this is what I did, I bought a cheaper 60" since they are considerably cheaper than a 70" and I plan on using it when I want to do something in the light other wise I use the projector.

I originally bought a 70" 4k vizio for $2500 but returned it because it was just too much when I can get the w1070 for $700 and have 85" screen, and a 60" for under $1k and just swap between the two when I want to watch something with the lights on. I saved about $1k by going this route and I have a bigger screen for low light and a decent screen for when I want the lights on.
 
munkle said:
I was in the same situation. I bought a w1070 and loved it only problem was it looked bad during the day time unless I completely blocked the windows. If you are ok with blocking out all light then go projector.

The issues I had is sometimes I like to put a movie on and tinker on things so having the light on was necessary which made the projector pretty bad for viewing.

So this is what I did, I bought a cheaper 60" since they are considerably cheaper than a 70" and I plan on using it when I want to do something in the light other wise I use the projector.

I originally bought a 70" 4k vizio for $2500 but returned it because it was just too much when I can get the w1070 for $700 and have 85" screen, and a 60" for under $1k and just swap between the two when I want to watch something with the lights on. I saved about $1k by going this route and I have a bigger screen for low light and a decent screen for when I want the lights on.
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Spot on, we must think alike. The 60" I have is a cheapie too, last years Black Friday vizio.
 
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