Biggest Hurdle To Overcome With Windows 9

Ummm, Windows 8? All joking aside, everyone can quit panicking, Windows 8 is nowhere near as bad as Windows ME or Vista and the company bounced back just fine from those.

Information is beginning to leak about Windows 9, and the conversation has turned to how badly Microsoft has failed so far with Windows 8. It's being said that Microsoft is floundering, with Windows 8 even being compared to Vista. Some wonder how Windows 9 might turn things around, but that may be harder than Microsoft can manage. There's a big problem in the Windows ecosystem that a new version probably can't address.

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I just don't know what they were thinking when they released the original Windows 8. It truly is baffling. And if people start telling me I just hate change and this is the future one more time I think I'm going to vomit.

A start menu?

I swear you post Windows 8 news just to watch the wolves at trolls go at it.... Two very extreme sides with this. Some love it and some hate it. And they defend their opinion (which is all it is) to the extreme.

I have two PCs with Windows 7 and my main gaming PC with Windows 8.1.

I don't really think Windows 8.1 is any more intuitive but it's also not really that much different. People get hyped up for no reason.

pcjunkie said:

I just don't know what they were thinking when they released the original Windows 8. It truly is baffling. And if people start telling me I just hate change and this is the future one more time I think I'm going to vomit.

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You just hate change ... you should accept the future

I like it

Ur_Mom said:

I swear MS released Windows 8 just to watch the wolves at trolls go at it.... Two very extreme sides with this. Some love it and some hate it.

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FTFY. Now was not the time for Microsoft to be polarizing.

DPI said:

FTFY. Now was not the time for Microsoft to be polarizing.

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You do have a good point there...

If windows 8 just had a way to turn off metro. Than it would be great. Search shows up metro items and programs opening up in metro from the desktop is stupid. (Yes I know u can change default). But for other people, they get super confused.

mjz_5 said:

But for other people, they get super confused.

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Mostly this. Computers are hard.

I really dont understand the hate to 8 windows, I myself find it fluid and faster for gaming. I also like the tablet and phone versions.

From what i can see it's just metro that is the cause of all the hate. If they put the start menu back in i guess people wouldn't have anything to whinge about.

I just don't know where Windows can go at this point. Metro aside, it's just become so damn good. I have no idea what OS X and Linux people are whining about.

Wait, I did forget that the DPI scaling sucks major ass.

meh. 7 works fine for me, I don't really experience those "dead ends". Heck, even Vista worked fine for me most of the time, major issues I had were with some file moving stuff.

Tried 8 briefly and the dual UI is definitely weird plus I don't like the artistic style. Even if I did, no real reason to upgrade yet.

Right now, I'm fine with its aesthetic side. I just wish it would be much, much more efficient in running with low-end hardware.

Metro seems fine for mobile devices though.

Freebo said:

I really dont understand the hate to 8 windows, I myself find it fluid and faster for gaming. I also like the tablet and phone versions.

From what i can see it's just metro that is the cause of all the hate. If they put the start menu back in i guess people wouldn't have anything to whinge about.

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Specifically, it is the forceful removal of choice for political and marketing reasons rather than technical ones that has turned longtime Windows users off. W8 was the first time MS intentionally removed options to revert to classic UI elements so that people could transition at their own speed - not Microsoft's - and continue to use the OS in the way that worked best for them.

The Start Menu still existed in one of the earliest Win8 builds - Sinofsky ordered it removed. That got Sinofsky removed, and Ballmer is following him out the door.

M'ichal said:

Metro seems fine for mobile devices though.

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Where it belongs. Nobody ever argued that. It's MS trying square peg into round hole and turn PC's into a mobile device that has annoyed the majority of Windows users.

It'll have four start buttons, one in every corner.

It really is a shame that small things like the metro UI and it being forced over shadowed the OS as a whole. I fine it much nice and faster then windows 7. Plug everything in and it just works.

I guess your right just forcing users wasn't the answer.

Megalith said:

I just don't know where Windows can go at this point. Metro aside, it's just become so damn good. I have no idea what OS X and Linux people are whining about.

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Mint Mate 16 is a beast. If it could game reasonably well I'd replace windows with it on all my machines.

I don't understand the reason why the metro has to be forced down the throats of users. MS must think that we'll all get confused if we use the traditional desktop interface on a PC and the metro interface on tablets/phones. Why not allow users the option of a Win7 type interface (full start menu) and the metro? I can use Win8, but I hate the feeling of less control that I feel with Win8, so I'll pass.
The really pressing issue for MS is meeting the business and government needs. I can't see Win8 being used by 50% or more of the employees. They still run XP because they know how to use it and they have the software they depend on for day to day operations. When a unproductive day of training for just the OS costs a great deal, expect procrastination toward a new OS.

Ducman69 said:

It'll have four start buttons, one in every corner.

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No they are going to have a new marketing strategy to ween us off the start button ... every time we click it they will give us an electric shock ... if we behave and click into things using the Metro interface we will receive an infusion of endorphins ... that and they will have a new voice interface called Atlas, "Would you kindly stop clicking the start button"

Freebo said:

I really dont understand the hate to 8 windows, I myself find it fluid and faster for gaming. I also like the tablet and phone versions.

From what i can see it's just metro that is the cause of all the hate. If they put the start menu back in i guess people wouldn't have anything to whinge about.

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I concur. I like the Windows 8.1 thing right now, tablet and PC. I have an RT tablet (Dell XPS10) updated to 8.1. It's great. I have noticed some deficiencies, but no game breakers. (no USB to serial support for my RT tablet, for one. I'm thinking about switching to an Atom based tablet to correct that.)

I don't see what this guy is talking about with Windows 8. I've never seen these so called "Windows dead ends" he talks about. There is always something to do to fix Windows, since Windows 7 came out. Windows 8 protects the system files now more than any previous version, significantly reducing problems like he describes. It also has several things that can repair the system in case of problems like this. Apple and Google certainly don't have those things in their tablet OSes, or Apple's OSX. MS had put together one of the easiest interfaces (UX, as he put it) of any OS that I've experienced. It makes far more sense than what I've had to do on Macs. Ever try to set up a network printer on a Mac? Horrible experience. None of it makes sense. Got corrupted configurations that won't allow it to boot? That takes a reinstall with a Mac because everything is so locked down. The even worse part is that you can install the OS again, but you get a whole new set of configuration files instead of restoring the old, and you can never delete the old, non-working installation. I can repair a Windows installation in less time than it takes for OSX to install, and the user doesn't have to redo all their settings and programs.

As far as their tablets go, there is so much you can't do with an iPad simply because it is so dumbed down. Windows RT has the same interface as Windows 8, which is so much more usable. With an iPad it's just selecting an icon among the tons of pages to start the app, and then you're stuck with just the app. Windows RT is so much better in that arena. I can have a music player going while reading a Kindle book and quickly just swipe over to skip a song I'm not in the mood for, and then swipe right back to the Kindle book. The same thing for surfing the web. I can swipe over to the desktop, look up a word or history on a particular person mentioned in the book, and then swipe back over to the book understanding more about what's going on. It's great.

If something gets corrupted with a system file or config on an iPad? Forget about it! You've got to bring it to an Apple store to get it fixed, if it can be at all. You may as well buy a new one. Sure, it happens more rarely because of the iron grip of Apple controlling the whole environment, but stuff happens, and it simply isn't fixable in many cases, cases where a Windows RT or Android tablet could simply be rebuilt.

It's also nice to have the extra battery in my keyboard in case the tablet battery is running low, but that's kind of exclusive to my tablet.

Android is better about that on the tablet, but it's still rather restricted. A user still can't repair system files or configurations directly from the tablet, but at least we can do it from another machine. It's easy to rebuild one, but not quite so easy to repair.

I think this guy is just blowing smoke. It's a worthless article.

For the ones asking what was MS thinking in forcing Metro, its simple.

MS wants 2 things badly, become a monopoly on mobile as they have it on the PC market (or at the very least, increase the pathetic market share they currently have) and two, they are salivating at the profits Apple and Google are making with their apps stores.

So, they tried to use their desktop monopoly to force W8 on every PC, since users don't have much of a choice when you buy a new PC, with some exceptions and no, remember, not everyone is technical enough to either install W7 or Linux by themselves.

Since you will be forced and exposed to the Metro UI, you will think that a W8 tablet and phone should be the natural way to go.

Metro UI works on mobiles and tablets, not denying that, but it sucks on desktops.

Seen how many people blindly ignore that fact is really sad.

Anyway, flame away fanbois.

grtitan said:

Since you will be forced and exposed to the Metro UI, you will think that a W8 tablet and phone should be the natural way to go.

Metro UI works on mobiles and tablets, not denying that, but it sucks on desktops.

Seen how many people blindly ignore that fact is really sad.

Anyway, flame away fanbois.

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Except that new conventional PC sales are declining and that's also happened with Macs overall. Bottom line, make Windows work better on tablets and leverage the desktop which actually makes sense. Full Windows x86 tablets seem to have done a lot better than Windows RT devices. If the new PC market were growing I don't think we would have seen Windows 8, but it's unlikely the new PC market is going to grow that much ever again as it's so mature. Microsoft could just continue to pump out incremental improvements to a desktop only OS, but desktop isn't the focus of consumer computing anymore.

There's all of this talk about how Microsoft is trying to do all of the nefarious things but I think ultimately its just trying to make Windows more consumer friendly and compatible with those experiences. Tablets, and simplified touch based software has to be part of Windows or it has no future in the consumer space. And key to making this work I think is the concept of hybrid devices which can fill multiple purposes at a reasonable price.

Windows 8.1. U need command prompt to remove wireless profiles. WTF!!

pcjunkie said:

I just don't know what they were thinking when they released the original Windows 8. It truly is baffling. And if people start telling me I just hate change and this is the future one more time I think I'm going to vomit.

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They were thinking 'TABLETS' Too much, too fast. Should have been a sideways step without the 8 and not the upgrade path for desktop PCs.

allow setup to detect if I have touch hardware
if so, enable metro as default
if not, enable desktop mode as default (with regular start menu)

not that complicated.

i will say, I like windows 8 without metro using one of those start menu apps ( can't get 8.1 on my netbook)

It literally brought new life to my old and aging EEE PC with a single core atom and 2gb of ram. 8 runs even faster than XP did and WAY better than Vista or 7 on it. It is pretty amazing.

heatlesssun said:

Except that new conventional PC sales are declining and that's also happened with Macs overall. Bottom line, make Windows work better on tablets and leverage the desktop which actually makes sense. Full Windows x86 tablets seem to have done a lot better than Windows RT devices. If the new PC market were growing I don't think we would have seen Windows 8, but it's unlikely the new PC market is going to grow that much ever again as it's so mature. Microsoft could just continue to pump out incremental improvements to a desktop only OS, but desktop isn't the focus of consumer computing anymore.

There's all of this talk about how Microsoft is trying to do all of the nefarious things but I think ultimately its just trying to make Windows more consumer friendly and compatible with those experiences. Tablets, and simplified touch based software has to be part of Windows or it has no future in the consumer space. And key to making this work I think is the concept of hybrid devices which can fill multiple purposes at a reasonable price.

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All good, but my point stands, Metro UI and all the changes done on W8 and W8.1 sucks on a desktop, plain and simple.

The problem with Windows 8 wasn't Windows 8 itself. It was Microsoft introducing major changes to the user interface and doing squat to address users who were booting to a screen that was totally foreign to them. The least they could have done is offered training sessions or seminars in their Microsoft stores. They're empty enough to fit large groups of people.

grtitan said:

All good, but my point stands, Metro UI and all the changes done on W8 and W8.1 sucks on a desktop, plain and simple.

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And the way I look at it is that all of the desktop software that I run still works as always. Most of discussion is about a small fraction of what the desktop is all about. A person familiar with Windows 8.1 on the desktop can get the TPS reports done just as fast as someone familiar using Windows 7. The biggest problem of Windows 8 with keyboards and mice is that it is different and tasks some time to adjust to.

shade91 said:

The problem with Windows 8 wasn't Windows 8 itself. It was Microsoft introducing major changes to the user interface and doing squat to address users who were booting to a screen that was totally foreign to them. The least they could have done is offered training sessions or seminars in their Microsoft stores. They're empty enough to fit large groups of people.

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Exactly.

Actually i liked W8, and even the Metro UI has for certain its uses, and if they make it so, that W9 has the desktop experience as W7 next to the Metro UI, and noting feels forced up on me, then they have a winner, anything less they will be burned for it, more or less.

But i truly really still are wondering what made them do it, abandoning there bread and butter desktop users in W8, the way they did.

Think MS was thinking it had to compete with likes of Google and Apple, and it forgot its main users, and just abandon them, yeah W8.1 has a lot of fixes to rectify there blunders, but what they should have done is that they should have made a classic desktop version/mode and a ''experimental'' hybrid desktop/tablet version, and see how people like it.

But you just dont experiment on your main costumers with a Beta product, as the Modern UI was for sure noting more then Beta UI, when it released W8.

You dont push change true peoples troth, you warm them up for it, because if you force it on them they will resist, if you warm them up for it, and ask for there input then you engage them to change.

This is noting new, and it should have bin a lesson they should have learned with Vista en the Ribbon UI, its just MS never learned to be humble till now.

I use W8 and i actually like the OS, as many under the hood improvements are worth switching over to it for, but it is ridicules that i had to use 3th party programs and hacks to make the OS function the way i wanted it again.

Some times you have to force change, there was also a lot of resistance to the ribbon interface in Office, but after some resistance, most people mostly liked it, and it was a change for the good.

I think MS was thinking that again, and I do see the need for Metro, and it would be fine if they had made the the new UI optional, because on touchscreens, the new UI is better, but not on the desktop, and as people dont like change, specially when forced up on them, and they are really unforgiving if its less efficient then the old way.

So if MS now lets people pick between what type of UI they wane use, and even let them switch if they use a hybrid device (like the ASUS T100), W9 could be a winner again like W7 and XP.

And i really wonder if by now they finally learned there lesson, and they really start listening to there customers and acknowledge that they have to serve THERE needs and not there own, if they do, maybe then MS stands a change it will survive in the real long run.

Once you get used to Windows 8, it's not that bad. But as a whole, it is a schizophrenic operating system. By that I mean it is trying to pose as two things at once, the "Metro" desktop and the "classic" desktop, which...if the Metro desktop worked perfectly the classic desktop would be obsolete, but it's not. Also, since the classic desktop works well and is familiar, it makes the metro desktop obsolete and unnecessary. While on the surface it may seem like having that option is a good thing, it is actually not to the average user. It just adds confusion.

Windows 9 will look like a prettier 7 with some features of 8 thrown in.

I think I speak for many people when I say"

I don't hate Windows because it's "different".

I don't hate Windows 8 because I feel like it should only belong on a touch device. In fact I think the attempt to unify the interface between platforms is a good idea. Especially for MS who is sucking wind in the mobile market.

This is not a political issue for me in any way.

I personally loved Vista when it came out. The fact that it had a number of well known issues kept me from it until it matured but I loved all of the new features. I still love them in Windows 7.

I don't like Windows 8 because they took away all of the features I like in Vista/7 and replaced them with a visual experience I find disgusting. This is just me, but I will never use it. I spend a god deal of my time in front of a PC's screen and I want what I see to be pleasing. I don't have any of the visual qualities found in Windows 8 elsewhere in my personal life. In fact I have intentionally avoided such appearances for the majority of my life. 3D graphics were all the rage when they started to hit the market and I approve of a multi dimensional User Interface. This isn't reading text from a book here (where 2d is absolutely ideal). This is interactive. I have used Windows 8 and I find the mandatory color scheme absolutely repulsive. There is no way I will look at that every time I want to use my computer. It's the kind of color scheme people give to their infant children to train them to crave candy and sugar water.
If someone else likes it.... more power to you. I'm glad that the modern version of most common desktop UI in the world suits you.
I think it's ridiculous and infantile, and I'm not alone. All of this Windows 8 mayhem isn't simply about the lack of the start menu. The average adult consumer wants to feel like they're being treated like an adult. When they are faced with a $1,000 price tag on a new lap top that looks like the blinking, clicking toy they just got done spending too much money on for their 18 month old they very well may feel disgruntled.

heatlesssun said:

And the way I look at it is that all of the desktop software that I run still works as always. Most of discussion is about a small fraction of what the desktop is all about. A person familiar with Windows 8.1 on the desktop can get the TPS reports done just as fast as someone familiar using Windows 7. The biggest problem of Windows 8 with keyboards and mice is that it is different and tasks some time to adjust to.

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Learning how to do the same thing with new controls. What are you insane! This is why people why math.

Windows 8 isn't bad, it's pretty slick once you add something like StartIsBack. If they bring back the Start Menu, make the metro-apps be able to run like normal apps (not full screen), and do some further enhancements/optimizations - it could be a really winner.

One thing I wish they'd do is bring the ability to do tabs on the Office apps and the File Explorer. So if you want to have PowerPoint and Outlook open at the same time, you can tab them. Multiple word documents? Tab them (or break them out). Streamline the thing a tad.