Intel's TIM

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Faethon

[H]ard|Gawd
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I just encountered this by accident while googling and thought that it may interest Intel users, although in this forum i doubt anyone uses for 7 years his CPU.


Intel's support employee:

Hi lilestorm,

The TIM has been tested, as you said, to last through 7 years of bake and power cycles. Downclocking the processor may help but we cannot guarantee the correct functionality either from the processor.

Our best recommendation is to keep the default settings on the processor and renew the TIM when necessary.




Hello AskingAlex
The processor along with the TIM has been tested under constant usage of heavy applications. I am afraid to say that we cannot guarantee the correct functionality of a third party TIM but we can do it when using the Intel TIM with the P/N G15816-001.
My best recommendation is to contact the manufacturer of that TIM you mentioned and confirm with them if it is capable of cooling down enough the processor you have.
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https://communities.intel.com/message/208872
 
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Can't see the link at work... is this for the TIM under the IHS or the TIM applied to the OEM HSF?
 
DejaWiz said:
Can't see the link at work... is this for the TIM under the IHS or the TIM applied to the OEM HSF?
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yes, basically they said that "under constant usage of heavy applications" the TIM would be good for 7 years.
 
But is it referencing the TIM under the IHS or on the oem HSF?
 
DejaWiz said:
Can't see the link at work... is this for the TIM under the IHS or the TIM applied to the OEM HSF?
Click to expand...

To me, it is clear that it's about the TIM between IHS and core. English isn't my native language, but the OP in that thread is pretty clear when asking:


So, I'm soon to be getting a new CPU (the Xeon E3 1230 V3). But, the CPU uses a thermal paste rather than solder between the IHS and the CPU cores. Supposedly, the thermal material has been tested to last through 7 years of bake and power cycles.
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Also, if it was for the TIM between CPU and cooler, why bother go ask that in "Intel's support community"?. Googling is quicker, other hardware fora are available...
 
To me, a possible conseguence of this, isn't mainly the 7 year "guarantee" of the TIM, but the fact, that, probably, TIM won't fail all of a sudden. It will slowly degrade over time. So one can expect that his CPU temps will slowly rise, up to the point that they say that they can't guarantee the correct functioning.

To me, i find it almost unbelievable, that a company like Intel, resorts to TIM in order to save money... As if it wasn't already dominating the market and was desperate to get the last penny. At least they put pretty good TIM... Considering Arctic has an "8-year durability" logo on the packages of MX-2.

But, the lure of the dark side strong is. The Emperor in the darkness lives.
 
Faethon, I couldn't agree more. Moving to TIM instead of Indium solder under the IHS was a dipshit move that was clearly only motivated by greed....and the worst kind: corporate leader greed to save a few $0.01/unit.

I can only imagine how much cooler IB and HWL parts would run if they weren't handicapped by the shitty TIM.
 
Hmm... this is no concern, brand new cars are only guaranteed for 3 years, or 5 years depending (unless you count Hyunday/Kia 10 years). BUT, they still work just fine for many many years there after.

A CPU is no different. Intel isn't going to guarantee anything forever, just long enough to satisfy industry demand. You can most certainly expect the CPU to work just fine for many years after that. Even if slightly impacted thermaly.
 
DejaWiz said:
Faethon, I couldn't agree more. Moving to TIM instead of Indium solder under the IHS was a dipshit move that was clearly only motivated by greed....and the worst kind: corporate leader greed to save a few $0.01/unit.

I can only imagine how much cooler IB and HWL parts would run if they weren't handicapped by the shitty TIM.
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Yes, i don't know how much difference in $ is between putting TIM instead of solder, but i imagine we 're not talking about big $ per unit. Actually, they could at least put solder on their more high end CPUs, since they target enthusiasts and i imagine that 99% of the users would prefer to pay a few bucks more to get a soldered version, that the TIM version. Cause either way, the end user, may have bought a few $ cheaper the CPU, but will give much more $ to get a better cooler, knowing that TIM will cause him trouble since the start. But Intel prefers to keep placing TIM, knowing that a) it has a finite lifetime, b) average Joes simply won't be able to follow the advice of the employee above to "replace" the TIM, c) it will cause OCers to buy costlier cooling, while they curse at Intel.

All this just because they want to shave a few $ off the production costs or the final price.... :rolleyes:

So, it's where greed meets tragicomedy and where the phrase "absolute power corrupts absolutely" applies.
 
GRAFiZ said:
Hmm... this is no concern, brand new cars are only guaranteed for 3 years, or 5 years depending (unless you count Hyunday/Kia 10 years). BUT, they still work just fine for many many years there after.

A CPU is no different. Intel isn't going to guarantee anything forever, just long enough to satisfy industry demand. You can most certainly expect the CPU to work just fine for many years after that. Even if slightly impacted thermaly.
Click to expand...

Leaving cars, aside, because even in cars, you 're supposed to service them every 10.000 km usually, as per manufacturer's booklet recommendation, the problem with TIM is quite wellknown. It eventually dries up. I 've actually had a GPU that since the start, it was overheating and when i eventually decided to remove the heatsink, the "TIM" was falling off like pieces of cement. It was conducting no heat anymore, if anything it was impeding thermal transfer. This eventually happens to all TIMs, including those of Arctic, which have "super long life" and have 8 years life. I 've had other TIMs with only 2 year guarantee (i think the Zalman in a small bottle with a brush).

I don't think there was a precedent before of CPU running on dried up TIM between IHS and cores, but i wouldn't want to be in SE Asia for example (hot enviroment), running that PC because i can't afford another, when the TIM will dry out. Already many PC run on dried out TIM between IHS and cooler. With a 2nd thermal barrier between core and IHS, it will be an interesting situation, which we will hear about in about 10 years from now.
 
It really was a pathetic move by Intel to replace something known to work great(solder) with a cheap material like TIM. And not even a quality one at that!
 
Jorona said:
Planned obsolescence?

SAY IT AINT SO?!
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Although the dark force runs strong in Intel, i don't think it's planned obsolescense, but rather a natural conseguence of greed. CPUs didn't use to have a part that was subjectible to "wear and tear" outside their core or with a well known finite time. If you google around, there are people in parts of the world who still have old Pentium I rigs that still run fine.

The introduction of TIM, changes that. Or to take loan from the car example, will your car run fine after 10 years without service on the wearable parts? My guess is that after many years there will be a lot of "old computer overheating" threads. :rolleyes:
 
Has there ever been an official statement on why they did this? I'm also reading that they've done this as far back as the Core 2 days on some lower priced chips?

Also readying Haswell-E are using solder.
 
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MrMike said:
Sorry, I don't mean socket 115x Xeons. 1356 or 2011.
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Everything I've read says the 2011 xeons are soldered. This is demonstrated by how much cooler there run in testing. Although several factors play into that.
 
Bluesun311 said:
/sigh That is going to be a very expensive build. I'm planning on it... but with DDR4 and brand new E platform just the parts by themselves are going to be ridiculous.
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That's why I went with a 4770k from my 920. I will be quite content to wait for Skylake-E now.
 
Ultima99 said:
That's why I went with a 4770k from my 920. I will be quite content to wait for Skylake-E now.
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That raises the big question: will SKL-E be on 14nm and, if so, will Intel continue their fuck-up and put TIM under it's IHS?
 
DejaWiz said:
That raises the big question: will SKL-E be on 14nm and, if so, will Intel continue their fuck-up and put TIM under it's IHS?
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Skylake is the next tock, a revamped architecture on the matured 14nm process that is being pioneered for Broadwell.

Skylake-E should be the same process as regular Skylake and as such 14nm. It should also have a soldered IHS just like SB-E, IB-E, and presumably Haswell-E.
 
Ultima99 said:
1. Skylake is the next tock, a revamped architecture on the matured 14nm process that is being pioneered for Broadwell.

2. Skylake-E should be the same process as regular Skylake and as such 14nm.

3. It should also have a soldered IHS just like SB-E, IB-E, and presumably Haswell-E.
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1. As logic would have it by paying attention to past products, SKL-E will be 14nm.

2. Unless Intel shocks the world by making their Skylake EE processors a step ahead and puts them on the 10nm process (which I doubt, but we can dream!).

3. It BETTER have a soldered IHS, but I wouldn't put it past Intel to keep screwing up things that are proven and worth-while.
 
DejaWiz said:
1. As logic would have it by paying attention to past products, SKL-E will be 14nm.

2. Unless Intel shocks the world by making their Skylake EE processors a step ahead and puts them on the 10nm process (which I doubt, but we can dream!).

3. It BETTER have a soldered IHS, but I wouldn't put it past Intel to keep screwing up things that are proven and worth-while.
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I seriously doubt they'll go with a new architecture and a new process at the same time.
 
These cpus will be used as key chain accessories seven years from now. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
After 7 years can't you just de-lid and put in your own paste.
At that point the CPU will be worth like $30 so who cares.
 
GRAFiZ said:
Everything I've read says the 2011 xeons are soldered. This is demonstrated by how much cooler there run in testing. Although several factors play into that.
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s2011 is indeed soldered, s1155 and s1150 are TIM'd
 
Anybody know if the e6850 was soldered or not? (Believe it or not, I had an unused Asus P5Q sitting around and decided to order that processor on eBay for it. lol)
 
That's a Conroe, which must be incredibly worn out. Better idea might be to get Wolfsdale. Of course if you have watter cooling, 65 nm CPU would allow easier heat removal.

Also it's DDR2 RAM speed limited. Better overclocking needs FAST RAM.
 
I'm really curious to see what sort of problems we face with thermal management on these new 14nm CPUs. I mean, we've already seen what shrinking to 22nm is doing with overclocks and temperature management.

14nm is going to be a lot more demanding.

Intel might be forced to solder their heatspreader again simply as a method for better thermal control.

I also doubt we're going to see much in the way of overclock headroom going forward. Especially as these smaller dies increase core counts.
 
GRAFiZ, I'm curious for the exact same reasons. If Intel does manage to release a 6 or 8 core 14nm or 10nm CPU in their mainstream segment, then I would damn near 100% assume that soldering the IHS would be the only viable choice in order to manage the heat output. Otherwise, we'd be stuck with 1.4 - 2.4 GHz processors to choose from. Well, I suppose the clock speed itself wouldn't be an issue if the IPC was increased to a level that would blow the doors off a current 4c/8t i7 running at 3.5+ GHz, but we all know that will never happen for the next 1 or 2 gen processors. :)
 
Isn't Indigo Extreme effectively a solder interface?

Hasn't some brave industrious [H]ard member attempted to apply it directly to the core yet?
 
Raghar said:
That's a Conroe, which must be incredibly worn out. Better idea might be to get Wolfsdale. Of course if you have watter cooling, 65 nm CPU would allow easier heat removal.

Also it's DDR2 RAM speed limited. Better overclocking needs FAST RAM.
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No, believe it or not, <deleted> on eBay has them brand new. Actually, I feel like contacting them to see if that's real. Even if I ordered it, it shows "clean pulled". But the description still says new. Weird.
 
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