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Consequently while Mantle is good for AMD users, is Mantle good for NVIDIA and Intel users? Do developers start splitting their limited resources between Mantle and Direct3D, spending less time and resources on their Direct3D rendering paths as a result?
At the risk of walking a very fine line here, like so many aspects of Mantle these are not questions we have the answer to today.
From this article on Anandtech:
http://anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn
So, MS might have no choice, but to be in and looks like Nvidia and Intel wont even have a choice.
Again, nothing concrete.
We will have to see if this takes precedence over the traditional API's we have right now. I don't think it will at all but it may make it a bit more convoluted in the long run. We will have to see how developers like this approach and see if they decide to take this and run with it and how far they run with it.
Obviously, they (AMD) wanted to simplify the process to code lower level, which I love. They chose to stick with their current architecture and not their past hardware configs as those are not/will not be supported soon. Seeing traditional performance from other hardware won't be bad though.
We will have to see how developers like this approach and see if they decide to take this and run with it and how far they run with it.
Would love if this can be integrated on SteamOS.
Looks like its going to be fast:
"When we asked what this means in real-world terms, he stated, with Battlefield 4 running with Mantel (AMDs new graphics API), the card will be able to ridicule the Titan in terms of performance. "
http://www.maximumpc.com/amd_r9_290x_will_be_much_faster_titan_battlefield_4
Nvidia might be able to create a wrapper for this or something. They do expose low-level access to their GPU's via OpenCL already. I hope they do put the effort into supporting Mantle though, since as you say, we waste so much system resources on our PC's.
ya-know the more im reading about mantle and looking back at AMD's bid for the console wars.
it looks like they are bending nvida over the table and saying "you like that huh?"
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/09/25/steam-rolling-into-your-living-room/where is everybody getting this info that valve and nvidia partnered up?
So has MS announced that they are totally on board with mantle? I feel like MS will see this ploy and try to do something to thwart it.
anyway, as someone who probably is gonna get BF4, I'm happy I won't have to buy windows 8 for directx 11.1. I can stick to windows 7 and use mantle.
AMD's GPU division possesses vision and foresight that their driver division desperately needs.
AMD's GPU division possesses vision and foresight that their CPU division desperately needs.
A few things-
1. Some early talk suggested it would work on nvidia cards somehow. Obviously it can't. It doesn't even work on 6000 series radeon cards.
2. Linux support theoretically can happen, but games with mantle end up requiring windows anyway, so amd probably won't bother making a linux mantle driver. They don't make great linux drivers atm anyway.
anyway, as someone who probably is gonna get BF4, I'm happy I won't have to buy windows 8 for directx 11.1. I can stick to windows 7 and use mantle.
Could and shouldIts open as it should be open to any developer wanting to implement it. I'm not sure how this would work on any other architecture as you would have to have access to every bit of logic on older versions/competitor cores (which is impossible).
It COULD world for somethings that different cores do exactly the same way but I'm not sure if anyone would really try that.
Are people really going to code for this API. OpenGL is supported by every major platform this generation. Why take the development time to create a Mantle version if it only works on windows AMD machines?
Well that isn't comfirmed but assuming it's true. How much mantle code will they really want to put in considering it wont translate to the portion of the PC market occupied by nvidia, nor to the linux based steamOS (amd linux support is much worse than nvidia, who knows if mantle will be available in the linux drivers either.) With OpenGL they hit all the platforms.
Are people really going to code for this API. OpenGL is supported by every major platform this generation. Why take the development time to create a Mantle version if it only works on windows AMD machines?
So far only one game is supporting Mantle (not even at launch) and you can bet AMD payed them a ton of money to do it. It's just marketing really.
So far only one game is supporting Mantle (not even at launch) and you can bet AMD payed them a ton of money to do it. It's just marketing really.
AMD making custom silicon for both consoles at near zero profit mainly for the PR propaganda value doesn't put them in any commanding market position, sorry.
"We reiterate our Buy rating and view our estimates for AMD as conservative in light of design wins in both the PS4 and xBox One," analyst Mark Lipacis said. This follows a win in the PS4.
"We believe AMD will receive revenues of $60-$80 per PS4 and xBox One shipped for its processor," he said.
He continued, "We believe that both the PS3 and xBox 360 shipped between 70-to-75 million units each over the past few years. Assuming similar success, for the PS4 and xBox One, and assuming $60 ASP per processor and 20% operating margin would translate to $9 billion in revenues and $2.40 in EPS over 6 years, or an average annual EPS of $0.40."
I think you might be slightly off with your "near zero profit" estimation:
http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/XBox+One+and+PS4+Could+Add+$9B+in+Revenue+for+AMD+%28AMD%29+-+Jefferies/8360630.html
I think you might be slightly off with your "near zero profit" estimation:
http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+Comments/XBox+One+and+PS4+Could+Add+$9B+in+Revenue+for+AMD+%28AMD%29+-+Jefferies/8360630.html
A few things-
1. Some early talk suggested it would work on nvidia cards somehow. Obviously it can't. It doesn't even work on 6000 series radeon cards.
2. Linux support theoretically can happen, but games with mantle end up requiring windows anyway, so amd probably won't bother making a linux mantle driver. They don't make great linux drivers atm anyway.
That's exactly what PC gaming needs right now. Like it or not, low level api's need to come back. Without them we're be wasting even more system resources. Back in the day OpenGL and Direct3D were good ideas. Developers had to support a lot of graphic cards, and everyone had their own API's that needed support. It really didn't matter if it was low level or high level API, because the difference from going software rendering to hardware was a huge leap. But today graphic cards demand a lot of resources, and those resources are wasted. This isn't a new issues either, as developers have requested this for some time. There was an article on HardOCP about code to metal a couple of years ago.i really hope that is true
last thing PC gaming needs is for NV to return fire with there own API
You can bet Microsoft and Sony aren't happy. Right now they don't want PC games to get any upper hand over consoles. Why you think Mantle for BF4 for PC is December? Even AMD knows they don't want to make Sony and Microsoft too pissed off, but yea they're mad as hell.
Programming them how?The 6xxx & 5xxx series cards do not use GCN architecture. And although they worked efficiently, programming them was such a giant pain most people who tried just gave up, nothing was stable.
They're not exactly the same, but they perform similar enough to support the idea that they're all based on the same architecture.
Programming them how?
As for mantle ... if AMD didn't release it, how long do you think it would take for someone with a Dev kit to "leak" a hacked version? I'm sure Sony, MS, and AMD discussed this possibility early on and all agreed on a course of action.
So Mantle is not available with the BF4 launch, but a BF4 update in "December"? I read it as it will be there at launch, with another update in December.