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Silverstone Modular 450W SFX (ST45SF-G) - Now has a product page - NextQ = When?
- Thread starter R3MF
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I was wrong about mine. Mine is v1.1. I mistakenly thought there were 2 revs: 1.0 and 2.0, but there is really 3 versions, 1.0, 1.1 (added caps to cables), 2.0 (quieter fan).
so do you have 1.1 or 2.0? just curious...
dont hold your breath guy.
We have something in the pipeline that I would prefer to send to them rather than ST45SF-G, but maybe I can ask if we can send both?
Our US office now only has V2.0 in stock so most vendors ordering currently should all have V2.0. But I can't guarantee what they have in stock unfortunately.
Yup, if you purchased a ST45SF-G recently, it most likely should already be V2.0
That is nowhere near a "shrink it down a little" type of job. That particular PSU is already longer than standard ATX (160mm vs. 140mm) so technically it is more than twice as big as a standard SFX PSU! Not saying it will never be done though (we can all dream!), but at least for the foreseeable future, it won't happen. A PSU with some of those attribute could be possible in the next one or two years though.
I don't think many people realize how much of a engineering challenge it is to shrink PSU's physical size by even 10% to 20% within reasonable costs. If it were that easy, we won't be the only brand to have full modular 650W/600W/550W/500W ATX PSUs that are only 140mm long.
Im not saying it would be easy or cheep, im just saying i would buy it. As it stands im just going to buy the Seasonic unit and make it work in the Ncase M1 with a short graphics card. But I would prefer to spend my money on an SFX version from Silverstone.
Hell, just leave the 80+ gold, and strap on huge heatpipe heatsinks and I'd buy that. Just something SFX and passive.
That's great news! but what about the owners with a 1.0 or a 1.1 unit? Can we RMA through a local distributor or are the early adopters out of luck and have to buy a new one? The fan noise is very annoying since it's the noisiest component of my sff system.
> 500W 80P Gold + bigger fan?
More likely a new Nightjar model given that most of their HTPC cases are ATX.
The nightjar series has been pretty much the same design (AFAIK) since the original 300W version, and it might be about time they released a fundamental redesign.
Great PSU, my 300W Nightjar has been going strong for over seven years now.
Yes, can owners of 1.0 and 1.1 units send in to SilverStone to get a 2.0?
DarkStryke
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IIRC it's a 550w gold SFX that someone was talking about in the ncase thread.
You do realise how rediculous you sound.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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Tony can you provide a little more information? How close to the end of the pipeline? End of month, quarter, or year? Planning some purchases, and I don't want regrets if a modular 550W SFX with 120mm ultra silent fan is near release. By the way what SFX PSU was in your T004 Thunderbolt on display at this year's Computex? Looks a little longer than spec.
I was curious on what you were talking about with the T004 PSU so I googled some images. That PSU doesn't look like anything new to me. Looks like V1.1 of the ST45SF-G. I can't seem them needed anything special for an external GPU enclosure. Current SFX supplies would be overkill.
http://www.computershopper.com/var/...graphics-power-supply-view_slideshow_main.jpg
What's ridiculous about that statement? There are a lot of people that would buy a passive version of this power supply, especially if it had higher efficiencies.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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Its the non-modular ST45SF (bronze).
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1765272
Still hoping for more information from Tony on what's in the pipeline or at least a time frame.
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Same here, just out of curiosity. My ST45SF-G is serving me well w/ 2500K and a Titan.
Phuncz
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I'd never buy a passive one specifically, because "passive" usually means "needs another component's fan to not melt".
You want a PSU which is more powerful, higher efficiency, in the same compact size, yet with passive cooling? Not only is this physically impossible, but you come across sounding bratty. Have you seen the size of passive ATX PSUs? They aren't conservative dimension wise.
No, i just want a passive SFX PSU. I dont need anymore than the current 450 watts. Higher efficiency would make it easier to cool passively, but 80+ gold is fine with me as long as its passive.
This is far from "physically impossible". Now it may be too expensive to make a profit, but i know for a fact it can be done. You could probably take their current ST45SF-G, take the fan out and put beefy heatsinks, possibly with heatpipes in its place and put more ventilation in the case and it'd run fine.
What is this I dont even
Well yeah, with enough money and time there's very few things that are physically impossible. But unless it becomes economically feasible for mass market the chance you'll ever see one of these being made is very slim. If ITX and small form factors stay popular I would say these will show up sooner rather than later, but I'd be surprised to see a mass-market passive 450 watt sfx in the near future.
...if you're listening Silverstone or Seasonic, please prove me wrong
...if you're listening Silverstone or Seasonic, please prove me wrong
Phuncz
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Where or whatbis this fact you speak of ?
That wouldn't work, if you see the inside of ST45SF-G, you would find that there isn't room for heatsinks with substantial size. Just take a look at how much more aluminum we used on our ATX fanless PSUs, and remember these are more than twice the size of SFX PSUs.
> 500W 80P Gold + bigger fan?
Nope, we can't fit bigger fan as there is no room to do that in our SFX PSU. The 120mm/140mm fans we take for granted in modern ATX PSUs are bigger than a SFX PSU in width and length:
140mm fan = 140mm (W) x 140mm (L)
120mm fan = 120mm (W) x 120mm (L)
SFX PSU = 125mm (W) x 100mm (L)
There needs to be at least 10mm (or 20mm with modular connectors) of room for fitting so ATX PSUs that use 140mm fan need to be at least 150mm/160mm deep and while PSUs with 120mm fan need to be 130mm/140mm deep. This leaves maximum fan size for our SFX PSU at 80mm. The next step up in fan size is 92mm, which just misses the requirement by 2mm. The 90mm fans you may have seen advertised elsewhere are all actually 92mm.
No, I am sorry.
There are several SFX PSUs we are developing, but if you are looking for the highest wattage SFX PSUs in the next several months, don't wait. Assuming there are no hiccups during development/production and everything goes smoothly (which almost never happens), we are at least half a year away from anything that could surpass ST45SF-G.
Again, if you see my explanation above, you'll see a 120mm fan in SFX will never happen. That's almost like asking car companies to fit three-row seatings in a subcompact car.
We haven't decided on which SFX we will use for our external Thunderbolt box.
The cables are the same for V2.0 from V1.1.
Well yeah, with enough money and time there's very few things that are physically impossible. But unless it becomes economically feasible for mass market the chance you'll ever see one of these being made is very slim. If ITX and small form factors stay popular I would say these will show up sooner rather than later, but I'd be surprised to see a mass-market passive 450 watt sfx in the near future.
...if you're listening Silverstone or Seasonic, please prove me wrong
Considering it took fanless ATX PSUs 8 years to move from 300W (SilverStone's ST30NF in 2004) to the current 520W (Seasonic SS-520FL2 in 2012), don't you guys think we are getting ahead of ourselves here with these expectations out of SFX?
Instead of chasing the impossibles now, we prefer to work on things one step at a time. Fanless SFX is a great idea, but to jump directly to 450W is a too early in our opinion. How about 200W ~ 300W to start? Or even semi-fanless?
Considering it took fanless ATX PSUs 8 years to move from 300W (SilverStone's ST30NF in 2004) to the current 520W (Seasonic SS-520FL2 in 2012), don't you guys think we are getting ahead of ourselves here with these expectations out of SFX?
Instead of chasing the impossibles now, we prefer to work on things one step at a time. Fanless SFX is a great idea, but to jump directly to 450W is a too early in our opinion. How about 200W ~ 300W to start? Or even semi-fanless?
Just thinking about it, a low power fanless SFX PSU might be at home in a HTPC, assuming the case that it's in is properly ventilated. Asking for anything more than 200W is, I believe, unreasonable for that form factor.
In terms of up and coming SFX PSUs, are there going to be any semi-modular units? Not sure what the demand is for that, if any, but it would be good to have all three options available.
always wondered why there could not be a way to daisychain some pico power supplies together or something. have them connect to a custom pcb and then output to a motherboard.. i'm no electrical engineer, so no idea how viable that would be. but i've wondered why someone never invented a way to have multiple pico units running in parallel instead of just one plugged directly into a motherboard.
also wouldn't development of a platinum certified (or higher) sfx psu kind of help in development of a passive sfx psu? the more efficient, the less heat.. right? again i'm no electrical engineer so i could be totally wrong
also wouldn't development of a platinum certified (or higher) sfx psu kind of help in development of a passive sfx psu? the more efficient, the less heat.. right? again i'm no electrical engineer so i could be totally wrong
Phuncz
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Thanks Tony Ou for all the info and insight, we should be grateful Silverstone even communicates with it's community this much. It's clear many here dream up stuff but don't realise the limitations.
I'm wondering what you mean with semi-fanless ? It's off for low usage but turns a low RPM one on when >50% ?
I'm curious though, how much would for instance a 600W SFX PSU cost (ballpark-figure) when using the latest in PSU technology ? I'm sure Silverstone has already investigated the route of releasing an expensive (200+$) PSU but deemed it to expensive. Because in all PSU's there are a large amount of analogue components which could be replaced with more durable and much smaller digital ones, but their prices would be huge.
I'm wondering what you mean with semi-fanless ? It's off for low usage but turns a low RPM one on when >50% ?
I'm curious though, how much would for instance a 600W SFX PSU cost (ballpark-figure) when using the latest in PSU technology ? I'm sure Silverstone has already investigated the route of releasing an expensive (200+$) PSU but deemed it to expensive. Because in all PSU's there are a large amount of analogue components which could be replaced with more durable and much smaller digital ones, but their prices would be huge.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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Tony, thank you for addressing my questions. Here is some information you and Silverstone might consider...
It sounds like you aren't aware of the High Power display at Computex this year. The PSU are currently on build-to-order status, and two US distributors are in discussions with High Power for US distribution according to the High Power representative I talked with about a month ago.
I know that a 120mm fan won't fit a 100mm box. The point is to change the length of the PSU to accomodate the fan. In the process you end up with an additional 25-35mm (1-1.5 inch) of space for additional capacity (500w). The High Power SFX PSUs all appear to fit the 120mm fan just fine in their 125mm x 130-135mm boxes, and come in fully modular 300w, 450w, and 500w 80plus bronze/gold models. Even if such a design needed to be 140mm long, it would still fit an SFX mount. The idea is no different than an extended ATX PSU. Please take a look at the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQA-F2XpZI
I recall you recently mentioned that Silverstone was the only brand with a line of 140mm fully modular ATX PSUs (with 120mm fans). You already sell a 650w 80Plus Gold 140mm with 120mm fan (ST65F-G). If you have a 550w SFX in development as we have been told, and it fits the standard SFX dimensions as you imply, then I wouldn't suspect that you would have too much trouble putting it in a bigger box.
So I am puzzled about why you mentioned that you had something in the pipeline if it doesn't exist or isn't ready for review. But thanks anyway I guess.
Yep, or think outside the 'box'...
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/sem...seats&ef_id=lalOjjRPPCUAAE9O:20130712050531:s
http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...6-smallest-easiest-parking-vehicles-with-them
It sounds like you aren't aware of the High Power display at Computex this year. The PSU are currently on build-to-order status, and two US distributors are in discussions with High Power for US distribution according to the High Power representative I talked with about a month ago.
I know that a 120mm fan won't fit a 100mm box.
The point is to change the length of the PSU to accomodate the fan. In the process you end up with an additional 25-35mm (1-1.5 inch) of space for additional capacity (500w). The High Power SFX PSUs all appear to fit the 120mm fan just fine in their 125mm x 130-135mm boxes, and come in fully modular 300w, 450w, and 500w 80plus bronze/gold models. Even if such a design needed to be 140mm long, it would still fit an SFX mount. The idea is no different than an extended ATX PSU. Please take a look at the video.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFQA-F2XpZI
I recall you recently mentioned that Silverstone was the only brand with a line of 140mm fully modular ATX PSUs (with 120mm fans). You already sell a 650w 80Plus Gold 140mm with 120mm fan (ST65F-G). If you have a 550w SFX in development as we have been told, and it fits the standard SFX dimensions as you imply, then I wouldn't suspect that you would have too much trouble putting it in a bigger box.
So I am puzzled about why you mentioned that you had something in the pipeline if it doesn't exist or isn't ready for review. But thanks anyway I guess.
Yep, or think outside the 'box'...
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/sem...seats&ef_id=lalOjjRPPCUAAE9O:20130712050531:s
http://www.thecarconnection.com/new...6-smallest-easiest-parking-vehicles-with-them
Well obviously you could just make such an PSU a bit longer (like High Power did with the 500W PSU they showed at Computex)?
Instead of chasing the impossibles now, we prefer to work on things one step at a time. Fanless SFX is a great idea, but to jump directly to 450W is a too early in our opinion. How about 200W ~ 300W to start? Or even semi-fanless?
I'd vote for a 450-500W SFX PSU, that is fanless until about 250W usage and only spins the fan up at usage higher than that.
He is clearly talking about a standard sized SFX psu as dictated by the current standards not a different form factor such as E-SFX. If you want an E-SFX at the moment go with High Power.
Personally I would like to see a modular E-SFX that is 125x125x63.5mm with a 92mm fan but that isn't going to happen overnight.
The ST65F-G is a very different psu and a much larger form factor overall. It appears that SS are already struggling to fit all the details into the SFX form factor and that is why the connections protrude outside of the case.
You asked him about what they are developing, he replied and then you wonder why he said anything? It takes allot of R&D time to get something like this to market, why are you puzzled he said anything? I am glad to hear they are working on it even if they said it is a year away. At least we know they are planning stuff and moving forward. He also never suggested it didn't exist. First prototypes can be easily a year before they are finished.
non of those cars are even close to subcompact cars and is like comparing the ATX form factor to SFX again.
Personally I would like to see a modular E-SFX that is 125x125x63.5mm with a 92mm fan but that isn't going to happen overnight.
The ST65F-G is a very different psu and a much larger form factor overall. It appears that SS are already struggling to fit all the details into the SFX form factor and that is why the connections protrude outside of the case.
You asked him about what they are developing, he replied and then you wonder why he said anything? It takes allot of R&D time to get something like this to market, why are you puzzled he said anything? I am glad to hear they are working on it even if they said it is a year away. At least we know they are planning stuff and moving forward. He also never suggested it didn't exist. First prototypes can be easily a year before they are finished.
non of those cars are even close to subcompact cars and is like comparing the ATX form factor to SFX again.
How about 200W ~ 300W to start? Or even semi-fanless?
A 300 watt passive SFX would be perfect. I would definitely buy those for my builds. I almost never need more power than that.
I definitely think you need SOMETHING for this market. Currently there are zero passive SFX PSU's available.
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There needs to be at least 10mm (or 20mm with modular connectors) of room for fitting so ATX PSUs that use 140mm fan need to be at least 150mm/160mm deep and while PSUs with 120mm fan need to be 130mm/140mm deep. This leaves maximum fan size for our SFX PSU at 80mm. The next step up in fan size is 92mm, which just misses the requirement by 2mm. The 90mm fans you may have seen advertised elsewhere are all actually 92mm.
Instead of chasing the impossibles now, we prefer to work on things one step at a time. Fanless SFX is a great idea, but to jump directly to 450W is a too early in our opinion. How about 200W ~ 300W to start? Or even semi-fanless?
Hi Tony, thanks for the detailed reply. To address two of the point you made:
I would very much like to see your performance SFX PSU's use a bigger fan than 80mm, even if that was only 92mm. As an enthusiast I have a natural aversion to small whiney fans.
p.s. would any of your SFX case be unable to take an SFX power supply that was 110mm deep (presuming 92mm fan + 20mm for modular)?Yes please, a passive 320W SFX PSU would be a treasure. Enough to run some useful hardware at 80% load.
adamantium
Limp Gawd
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Clearly, and I clearly was not. The High Power line will be an option for all of us at some point.
That would be a great model, even if it was simply the guts of the existing ST45SF-G in a 1 inch longer box with a 120mm fan.
You are correct. It is a short ATX PS/2 (http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?area&tid=10055). But it exists, is modular at 140mm, has a 120mm fan, and is built by SilverStone. This shows that they can build a PSU with 30% higher capacity using 34% higher volume over what High Power will be offering. They are very close if they can scale down capacity as they scale down the volume of the box. You can see from the video that the connections protrude outside of the High Power PSUs as well. That is acceptable given the length is 130-135mm.
I understand your confusion about my confusion, but here is what was said:
That wasn't a response to any question I asked. So was Tony suggesting that he might send something that wasn't ready for a review? I don't think he would have brought it up if it wasn't ready, but maybe now that is the case. I am glad Tony replied to my specific questions.
"...the Mazda5 takes up the same overall parking footprint as a compact like the Mazda3, Volkswagen Jetta, or Chevrolet Cruze. Yet it offers a cavernous, versatile minivan interior and seating for six adults, if those back in the third row don't mind being a little tight."
Jeez louise, what is closer to subcompact than compact?
Are you arguing that a 1 inch longer SFX isn't close to a standard length SFX?
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