new build 3770k vs 4770k

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XenatR

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
183
need: to keep costs down as much as possible, unless the benefit really makes the upgrade worthwhile

uses: sony vegas video rendering and online battlefield 3 gaming

current system:

Phenom 955 @ 3.9ghz
Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3
Samsung green 2x4gb VLP
HD 7770
ocz coreXstream 500w


if i were to go intel, i guess i have two options:

1) i7-3770k + Biostar HiFi Z77X = £365

with this config, i could keep my current psu

2) i7-4770k + AsRock Z87M EXTREME4 + Corsair 750W HX = £511


option 3) is to stick with amd: FX-8350 + 660 Ti/760 = £365
with this config, i wont have to reinstall windows (not a _huge_ issue), and will be able to keep all other items as they are
 
Why do you need a new PSU with the haswell rig and not the IB one? Haswell uses less power...i must be missing something.

No reason to get last gen stuff if the price is pretty similar. I'd go with Haswell if I was building today and planning to keep my rig for many years. The lower power draw of haswell over a few years will break even with the $30 or so price premium you pay up front. It dumps less heat into your room. Video editing is an area where haswell sees the largest lead over IB as well.
 
Zomoa said:
Why do you need a new PSU with the haswell rig and not the IB one? Haswell uses less power...i must be missing something.

No reason to get last gen stuff if the price is pretty similar. I'd go with Haswell if I was building today and planning to keep my rig for many years. The lower power draw of haswell over a few years will break even with the $30 or so price premium you pay up front. It dumps less heat into your room. Video editing is an area where haswell sees the largest lead over IB as well.
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im sure theres a big thing about Haswell, because of the low power draw sleep states etc, that many power supplies are not compatible!!

not that i will be using any kind of sleep state.. i will be overclocking whichever config i go for immediately!

are you saying i dont need to upgrade my psu???
 
XenatR said:
im sure theres a big thing about Haswell, because of the low power draw sleep states etc, that many power supplies are not compatible!!

not that i will be using any kind of sleep state.. i will be overclocking whichever config i go for immediately!

are you saying i dont need to upgrade my psu???
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Nope. You're right. I knew I was missing something! A quick google search on your current PSU, first result claims it can't support haswell fully.

I'm pretty sure you can just disable those power states in the BIOS and you're good to go, though.

If you're adventurous I'd go for the 4770k/mobo and see if I can get it to work with current PSU by disabling the Haswell C6/C7 states in the BIOS. The incompatibility with your PSU should only occur when the CPU is actually in those C6/C7 states..so if they're disabled I think it should work.

All speculation though, I have no first-hand experience with Haswell.
 
Zomoa said:
Nope. You're right. I knew I was missing something! A quick google search on your current PSU, first result claims it can't support haswell fully.

I'm pretty sure you can just disable those power states in the BIOS and you're good to go, though.

If you're adventurous I'd go for the 4770k/mobo and see if I can get it to work with current PSU by disabling the Haswell C6/C7 states in the BIOS. The incompatibility with your PSU should only occur when the CPU is actually in those C6/C7 states..so if they're disabled I think it should work.

All speculation though, I have no first-hand experience with Haswell.
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would be brilliant if i didnt have to buy a new psu!

do the c6/c7 states mean the cpu, in windows, will lower the voltage when the cpu isnt being stressed, without which, the cpu will be operating all the time at its overclocked frequency?
 
XenatR said:
would be brilliant if i didnt have to buy a new psu!

do the c6/c7 states mean the cpu, in windows, will lower the voltage when the cpu isnt being stressed, without which, the cpu will be operating all the time at its overclocked frequency?
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I'm pretty sure these are just sleep-related C-states. No difference in anything when the computer is on. So you should lose nothing if you disable them and you weren't planning to use sleep anyway.
 
Zomoa said:
I'm pretty sure these are just sleep-related C-states. No difference in anything when the computer is on. So you should lose nothing if you disable them and you weren't planning to use sleep anyway.
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brilliant thank you! i suppose, as with all aggressive overclocks, youd want to limit or disable most such features as they usually make the overclock unstable!

final question, would you personally go for the Haswell option, with no gfx card upgrade, or the FX-8350 with a 660Ti.. approx £25 cheaper than the intel option
 
Before I give any input on this, what is your budget and preferred retailer (or e-tailer)? Just to compare prices and such, to see if it would be worthwile (leaning toward option 3).
 
You know you can disable those sleep states in the bios if your psu doesn't support them. So, no need to get a new psu.
 
tonyftw said:
Before I give any input on this, what is your budget and preferred retailer (or e-tailer)? Just to compare prices and such, to see if it would be worthwile (leaning toward option 3).
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i will be buying using a finance deal, over 24months, from either www.scan.co.uk or www.ebuyer.com

budget.. no idea.. as little as possible really. probably no more than £450 though.. i also need a hard drive included in the price.. approx 1tb/2tb

*edit* the other option would be to wait for the 760 release (June 25/26th??).. therefore FX-8350 = £155.. Samsung 2Tb = £70.. GTX 760 = £185 (£410)

trick0502 said:
You know you can disable those sleep states in the bios if your psu doesn't support them. So, no need to get a new psu.
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thanks! thats great to hear if i go that route!
 
Do you prefer regular atx, mini-itx, or micro-atx motherboards?

Still leaning toward option 3, to be honest.
 
tonyftw said:
Do you prefer regular atx, mini-itx, or micro-atx motherboards?

Still leaning toward option 3, to be honest.
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Well as i unfortunately bought a micro atx case a while ago (i liked the idea of smaller form factor) i guess it cant be atx size... unless i added in the cost of a cheap atx case
 
Looking at ebuyer and scan (assuming you were to pick up a 4770k), the z87m extreme 4 and baby naked sabertooth (z87 gryphon), are the two boards I would look at for micro atx.

The z87m oc formula and maximus vi gene, are two amazing micro atx motherboards, but might be out of your price range.
 
XenatR said:
brilliant thank you! i suppose, as with all aggressive overclocks, youd want to limit or disable most such features as they usually make the overclock unstable!

final question, would you personally go for the Haswell option, with no gfx card upgrade, or the FX-8350 with a 660Ti.. approx £25 cheaper than the intel option
Click to expand...

You can always turn down your resolution/graphic settings in game to make any game play decently with a 4770k/7770 combo. Silly but it will work and you'll be able to play most anything still at really good framerates. Some games have insane amounts of CPU calculations and there is no substitute for IPC in those scenarios. That's the beauty of not holding back on the CPU purchase in this case.

AMD is more of a gamble if the game your playing is properly multithreaded to take advantage of what AMD has to offer. This is going to dramatically improve over the next few years as the next gen of consoles takes over, but it's all theoretical at this point and I wouldn't base a purchase today on that.

I don't like gambling and I love CPU power, so I'd go with the 4770k for sure. GPU is easily upgradable in the future if you can save some more funds over the next year or two.

Also I just realized that your PSU will need to be upgraded if you go with the 8350/660ti option and plan to OC at all. The 8350 will draw significantly more power under OC load vs Haswell OC load.

So 4770k recommendation still stands. :)
 
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Sent you a PM..

IF you did decide to go with the AMD 8350 and 660ti, you could easily reuse the same PSU as long as you keep your cpu overclock in the 4.2-4.5Ghz range...Anything over that and you really have to crank the voltage up pretty good (1.47-1.5) and you would be putting quite a load on the PSU..


To give you an idea of power draw, I built an 8350 combo for a friend locally with twin 560s in SLI, and with the cpu overclocked to 4.7Ghz, he was drawing 445W @ the wall for the entire system while gaming..
 
I can't see why anyone would go with Haswell. Why not just find a 2600K instead? They can be had for cheaper and overclock very good.
 
kametsukida said:
I can't see why anyone would go with Haswell. Why not just find a 2600K instead? They can be had for cheaper and overclock very good.
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Because it's newer, faster (slightly), and comes with certain features not available on the older mainstream chips.

If you were building a new intel based computer now, I see no reason but to go haswell.
 
tonyftw said:
Because it's newer, faster (slightly), and comes with certain features not available on the older mainstream chips.

If you were building a new intel based computer now, I see no reason but to go haswell.
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There's hardly any difference between ivy and hasbeen. Hasbeen overclocks even worse and runs hotter than ivy. It's a total fail.
 
kametsukida said:
There's hardly any difference between ivy and hasbeen. Hasbeen overclocks even worse and runs hotter than ivy. It's a total fail.
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They overclock about the same as ivy (pre-delid), from what I've seen. And it's called haswell.

Depending on the application, haswell can be about 0-10% faster than ivy.
 
What do you guys figure the cost/benefit would be if one were to be deciding on a purchase at Microcenter? I'm not really interested in delidding and would be starting from scratch, coming from q9550/775. Moderate OC'ing on air is the goal.

Reusing psu/case would be nice (full size atx case). Gaming 1080p, would purchase a 770 or 7970 used.

Links for reference (http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx)
 
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The only benefit to purchasing from Microcenter would be saving money.
When you buy motherboard/processor they remove 40 bucks additional.
You can't beat that. They are already almost 150 bucks cheaper than most with their processors, then they throw in 40 bucks.
Its almost too good to be true. And it is.
 
Sorry, I should have meant, what do you all think of the price differentials, purchasing at MCC, of i3770k vs 4770k bundles.
 
im currently rendering a 50gb file in vegas.. wmv codec 8Mb, 1080p... its apparently going to take 1hr 30mins -_-

this is painful & i need an upgrade as i have many more such file sizes to render.

how much faster will both i7-4770k & FX-8350 be??

also which of these will be faster than the other and by how much? is it possible to get this render time under 1hr??

*edit* 40% rendered, elapsed time is 45mins, time left approx = 1,05... i guess by the time this finishes it will be close to 2hours.. what a joke lol
 
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kametsukida said:
There's hardly any difference between ivy and hasbeen. Hasbeen overclocks even worse and runs hotter than ivy. It's a total fail.
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Qualifying Haswell as a total fail is unfair considering that is still provides a minor improvement over IB.
Deceiving yes, total failure no.
 
thanks for the input guy, i have another question

i have a primary sdd (ocz agility 3 120gb), which is ok, however, it is running at sata II speeds. i also recently found my old samsung sta 7200.10 320gb hdd. i recorded with fraps at 1080p 60fps onto that hdd and the resulting rendered video is quite choppy and annoying to watch.

i was thinking, if i went with the i7-4770k, the motherboard would give me sata III speeds. i was considering also upgrading my primary sdd to a Toshiba 256Gb SDD (the one with the 19nm mlc nand).. and reformating my ocz agility, using that as the drive to record fraps to.

would this be the best solution for fluid 60fps video capture?
 
If you're financing, keep your current setup and spend as little as possible. No sense in putting yourself in debt to play BF3 a little faster.
 
XenatR said:
need: to keep costs down as much as possible, unless the benefit really makes the upgrade worthwhile

uses: sony vegas video rendering and online battlefield 3 gaming

current system:

Phenom 955 @ 3.9ghz
Gigabyte 78LMT-USB3
Samsung green 2x4gb VLP
HD 7770
ocz coreXstream 500w


if i were to go intel, i guess i have two options:

1) i7-3770k + Biostar HiFi Z77X = £365

with this config, i could keep my current psu

2) i7-4770k + AsRock Z87M EXTREME4 + Corsair 750W HX = £511


option 3) is to stick with amd: FX-8350 + 660 Ti/760 = £365
with this config, i wont have to reinstall windows (not a _huge_ issue), and will be able to keep all other items as they are
Click to expand...

keep your computer and get an SSD plus a video card that works to accelerate your video software. a new CPU is faster but not faster-enough to justify spending ahead of the SSD and video card


XenatR said:
i was thinking, if i went with the i7-4770k, the motherboard would give me sata III speeds.
Click to expand...

sure but that difference is less than everything else. using over 75% of an ssd or hard drive probably slows it down more than that interface difference
 
stm said:
What do you guys figure the cost/benefit would be if one were to be deciding on a purchase at Microcenter? I'm not really interested in delidding and would be starting from scratch, coming from q9550/775. Moderate OC'ing on air is the goal.

Reusing psu/case would be nice (full size atx case). Gaming 1080p, would purchase a 770 or 7970 used.

Links for reference (http://www.microcenter.com/site/brands/intel-processor-bundles.aspx)
Click to expand...

Not sure how your personal 'economy' is going but it would be prudent of you to take these guys' advice, spend as little as possible, if MC can save you $$$ you are going to blow otherwise, then yes, it's the best place. However, you can save $$$ by just buying a good sized SSD, even @SATA 2 speeds you will notice a huge jump in 'performance', a faster vidcard with a good amount of FB and you will be able to wring a bit more life out of your [email protected] it's still not good enough, then you can get your 4770k, knowing you did everything to save $$$..gl m8!!!
 
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