HTPC/Server Builds Planning/Help

What I have:
- Cat 6 wiring throughout the house, 6 lines to each location, 6 locations overall, all initiating in media closet
- Dedicated media room with an Epson PowerLite 5010
- Max of 4 additional TV locations

Goals:
- All media in single location, accessible at all viewing locations
- Media to include DVD/BluRay/HD DVD rips, OTA Channels, Netflix/Hulu content
- Simple Navigation once configured (I am pretty tech savvy, my wife... can cook like a boss)
- I am NOT worried about gaming at all or streaming 3d content

Current Plan:
- Media Server in media closet with significant storage and ability to stream various content types simultaneously
- Front end HTPC(s) which serves to solely stream the content from the Media Server to the TV/Projector

Questions:
- It seems that XBMC is a very user friendly UI but Plex is the most powerful/feature rich. I am pretty tech savvy, and can follow wiki's like a champ, so I am confident I could configure Plex to work, but without any real significant experience in Opensource stuff I am not sure if my confidence is reasonable or not. Anyone care to weigh in?
- It looks like Linux based systems are pretty common for these applications, and I've not messed with Linux at all before, is the knowledge necessary for these applications overwhelming for a Linux noob?
- What else do I need to consider?

Current Build Ideas

Front End Build:
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154087
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130662
RAM: 4GB DDR3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231189
CPU: AMD A4-5300 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113283
HDD: 64 GB SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441

Media Server:
Case: N/A (have one)
PSU: N/A (have one)
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293
TV Tuner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116028
ROM: http://www.shop4tech.com/user.htm?go=view_item&id=9975&r=183
Ram: 8GB DDR3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148661
CPU: I7-3770K http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
System HDD: 64GB SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441
Storage: 1TB HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236070


Thanks in advance!

Between XBMC and Plex, I'd say you have it a bit backwards. Plex is user friendly, ease to set up, and uses a server-client architecture. XBMC is much more customizable but uses a distributed architecture.

Between the two, I'd recommend XBMC if you want to have total control over the experience. The one downside is that XBMC is distributed, so you'll have to copy over your settings to each HTPC it is on. However, you'll have to check what support, if any, XBMC/Plex have for Netflix/Hulu natively. Worst case you may need to program a button on your remote to switch to WMC to run those. I don't use 'em so I haven't followed that.

You don't need Linux for any of this. XBMC is cross-platform. Since you're not gaming, Linux is more of a choice, but I'd go with what you are comfortable with. XBMC comes packaged on an Ubuntu distribution for your convenience, or you can get the OpenELEC version, which is probably the easiest XBMC to set up (openELEC is built to be as appliance-like as possible, which means all you get is XBMC on the install, and all configuring for the computer are done within XBMC).

That tuner you listed won't decrypt encrypted cable feeds, and most are encrypted these days, so you'd want a cablecard tuner in that case, specificallly the Ceton or Silicon Dust offerings. If just grabbing OTA, I'd recommend a HomeRun connected to a monoprice antenna.

Thanks for the input. I've cut the cord as it were, so encrypted channels aren't an issue right now, but I will check out the HomeRun. From what I have read, both XBMC and Plex can access Netflix and such through plug-ins but not as smoothly as through a native app or browser.

I do like the ability that Plex offers to view content remotely, because the wife and I have an hour commute on a bus every day.

I am obviously most comfortable with Windows, but if I can use something cheaper/free I would love to avoid relying on the higher priced OS.

Is the i7 really necessary for the media server to be able to stream to multiple outlets simultaneously?

Nope, you want the exact opposite of an i7. My server runs a Pentium G620. Only computer in your house that should be running an i7 is one that is running production software. i5 for gaming. i3 for casual workstation and HTPC. i3/Pentium for media servers.

As for Plex and remote viewing, that is true, that is another missing feature with XBMC. However, there is a compromise here and it is what I do: use XBMC at home, but install Plex Media Server on your server, and use Plex to view video remotely. Best of both worlds until XBMC adopts a client-server architecture itself.

Windows 7 is fine for your HTPC's. I use it because I run game emulators and its easier to run emulation on Windows than Linux. However, if you want to dabble with Linux, I'd recommend the aforementioned XBMCBuntu or OpenELEC builds.

Hadn't really looked at your specs til now. What I'd do is use your primary desktop with the most horsepower to do your ripping, not the server, since the server should presumably be headless in a closet. Therefore, the server doesn't really need a ODD. Ram is fine. SSD is optional because while SSD are great, it serves the least use in a file server, especially one stored in a media closet so no worries on sound.

Most of your budget for the server should go into HDD's. 1 TB of storage ain't gonna cut it for long. Also, if you are going to do all this ripping, you probably want to run a parity-redundancy scheme that protects you from one drive failure. I'd recommend looking into Snapraid or Flexraid. Either way, it'd require one of your HDD's for this purpose.

Ah that's a better approach. My main pc is still decently powerful, and could certainly handle the ripping. The thing i don't have a good grasp on yet is where the work should occur when I actually go to watch something. I keep reading about the transcoding and how its a processor heavy function, but I am not real clear on what things need to be transcoded etc. I think that's what essentially occurs when I go to actually watch one of the movies I have ripped into MKV, in which case the media server would need to have the power to handle that.

And yes i realize the TB i listed isn't nearly enough. I more was just putting that on as an example. HDDs are the easiest to buy on an as needed basis and are also consistently dropping in price so I won't buy until I actually have a need, and I do intend to setup a RAID of some sort to get the redundancy you talked about. My luck I will spend countless hours ripping and the next day the HDD will melt.

XBMC can play MKV and H.264 natively with no transcoding necessary. Transcoding is only an issue when the device you are transmitting the file to cannot support viewing it in its native container or its codec. Here, the only transcoding that will take place is when you use Plex on your mobile phone or device over 3G and Wifi, both because your phone may not support MKV natively (iPhone) and because the bitrate of a 1080P bluray rip would overwhelm a 3G network. So, the various media software out there, like Plex, include a function to transcode it on-the-fly to a different container/codec/format and/or with a different bitrate (quality) as it is being transmitted over the Internet to your device. This transcoding does use the CPU, but no, it is not something that requires an i7, or an i5. My G620 handles transcoding fine. You'll be fine with a modern Pentium or an i3 (using Intel as example).

For redundancy, I'd recommend again that you look into non-striped, parity-based scheme, like Flexraid or Snapraid as they are really the best options for a media server. Flexraid can include drive pooling, Snapraid does not.

verti89 said:

And yes i realize the TB i listed isn't nearly enough. I more was just putting that on as an example. HDDs are the easiest to buy on an as needed basis and are also consistently dropping in price so I won't buy until I actually have a need, and I do intend to setup a RAID of some sort to get the redundancy you talked about. My luck I will spend countless hours ripping and the next day the HDD will melt.

Click to expand...

That's the approach I took initially and now I'm sorry. I wish I had done it right the first time and just spent the money and setup a proper raid setup with double parity to begin with.

Now, I have to buy more drives to setup the pool then migrate the data and then add the existing drives to the pool. It's a headache I've been delaying for a year.

Yeah, I'd buy 2-3 WD Red 3 TB's, throw in Flexraid parity and drive pooling, and call it a day. That'll give you 3TB-6TB usable, with last drive for parity.

Get a motherboard that supports 6 Sata II devices, and expand from there.

The Front-End build is cheap I'll give you that. But it's a really poor value for the money.
Case: The included PSU in that system is crap. That's to be expected considering that good quality PSUs alone start around $40 to $50. Since that case costs around $50 for the case and PSU, that should tell you something about the quality of the PSU. If you absolutely must have that form factor, I recommend this replacement PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151090

RAM: Really overpriced considering that a single 8GB only costs $8 to $9 more:
$48 - Corsair CMV8GX3M1A1333C9 8GB DDR3 1333 RAM

SSD: That Crucial SSD is pretty overpriced. For just $20 more, you can literally double the storage as well get an increase in performance:
$98 - Samsung 840 120GB SSD

As for the media server, what case and PSU will you be using?

verti89 said:

I keep reading about the transcoding and how its a processor heavy function, but I am not real clear on what things need to be transcoded etc. I think that's what essentially occurs when I go to actually watch one of the movies I have ripped into MKV, in which case the media server would need to have the power to handle that.

Click to expand...

No, transcoding is only done when you have a device that can't play a certain file type. Since you're using PCs, you don't have to deal with transcoding at all since PCs can play virtually every format out there. Right now I'm using an ol' Celeron D to stream 1080P HD content in MKV containers to the PCs in my home just fine. So a Core i7 is really overkill for this.

With that said, if you were doing a ton of encoding and virtualization work to the point where an i7 might be a good idea, now would not be the best time to buy an i7 since we're so close to the release of the Haswell i7s and i5 CPUs.

I don't think I've seen it mentioned here but if you're planning on connecting your front-end to a receiver, make sure you get a CPU that supports bitstreaming so you can take advantage of lossless formats of your rips.

Now I am getting some good info. you guys are awesome. On the PSU/Case for front end, I am not tied to anything in particular and actually have this PSU laying around from a poorly packaged combo from my last build. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182207 My goal is something that doesnt look awful in the entertainment center.

I will look closer at the RAM and get better value. 4GB is plenty RAM though right?
On the SSD, my understanding is that at MOST these front ends will have an OS and whatever software i use to interface. So capacity is very minimal. From that perspective, yes I could get more capacity for $20 more, but i have no need for that much space, now i am interested in as much performance as i can get.

I generally decide between products based on reading reviews and looking at the number of reviews when i don't understand the few differences that are listed.

This is the old case and PSU (i think) i have laying around
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166004

I will update my builds this afternoon. Thanks for the ongoing advice.

verti89 said:

Now I am getting some good info. you guys are awesome. On the PSU/Case for front end, I am not tied to anything in particular

Click to expand...

I recommend looking at these cases:
$55 - Silverstone ML03B mATX HTPC Case
$95 - Silverstone GD05B mATX HTPC Case
$99 - Silverstone GD04B mATX HTPC Case

With this PSU:
$50 - Corsair 430CX V2 430W PSU

verti89 said:

actually have this PSU laying around from a poorly packaged combo from my last build. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182207

Click to expand...

Not worth reusing: It's a pretty old and/or low quality design. The simple fact that it has a voltage selector is a clear indication of those key aspects.

verti89 said:

I will look closer at the RAM and get better value. 4GB is plenty RAM though right?

Click to expand...

4GB of RAM is more than enough. So if you can find 4GB of RAM for $20 to $25, then it's a fine deal. Any more than that and you might as well go for 8GB of RAM.

verti89 said:

On the SSD, my understanding is that at MOST these front ends will have an OS and whatever software i use to interface. So capacity is very minimal. From that perspective, yes I could get more capacity for $20 more, but i have no need for that much space, now i am interested in as much performance as i can get.

Click to expand...

Do note the second part of my SSD recommendation: "as well get an increase in performance". With SSDs, the larger in size you go, the more performance you actually get. So that $20 gets you double the space and higher performance. That's $20 well spent and clearly shows why the 64GB is a poor value for the money.

verti89 said:

This is the old case and PSU (i think) i have laying around
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182070
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811166004

Click to expand...

Those will suffice.

Ok so with this new approach, I think I can actually get away with this old machine as it is for my media server if I just add in the proper storage, and a tuner of sorts.

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131013
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122 (if I recall correctly I did 2 sets of these so 8GB total)

On the FlexRAID, is this essentially just a software or does it require something more?

Have you considered a task specific device like a Roku 3 for your front ends? They handle all the Amazon/Netflix apps, have Plex capability and seem to meet your needs other than OTA TV, which could be handled by a Boxee TV. However, if you are in an Aereo market, you can use that with Roku for your OTA needs....

verti89 said:

Ok so with this new approach, I think I can actually get away with this old machine as it is for my media server if I just add in the proper storage, and a tuner of sorts.

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131013
CPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773
RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122 (if I recall correctly I did 2 sets of these so 8GB total)

Click to expand...

You could get away with such a build as long as you don't care about the relatively high heat, noise, or power consumption of that old setup.

verti89 said:

On the FlexRAID, is this essentially just a software or does it require something more?

Click to expand...

It is software. You just have to buy it and any additional add-on storage controllers if you don't have enough SATA ports on your motherboard to suit your needs.

I've not looked too much into the Roku's, if I had an HD HomeRun attached to the Media Server, could the Roku stream from that? Can it play any format like a HTPC would be able to, or would that lead me back to the transcoding issues? Do you have to get an additional Boxee at every TV or just the one?

Noise/Heat isn't an issue for media server. The closet has a door, fan, and its own A/C vent (at floor level).

Front End Build REVISED (mobo and cpu unchanged):
Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163174
PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026
Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130662
RAM: 8GB DDR3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148540
CPU: AMD A4-5300 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113283
HDD: 120 GB SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147188

Total Cost: $380 + cost of OS

verti89 said:

I've not looked too much into the Roku's, if I had an HD HomeRun attached to the Media Server, could the Roku stream from that? Can it play any format like a HTPC would be able to, or would that lead me back to the transcoding issues? Do you have to get an additional Boxee at every TV or just the one?

Click to expand...

HD HomeRun to the Roku might be tricky. A quick google search yielded nothing definitive. There might be a way to pipe it through Plex though...

In theory, for anything that needs to be transcoded, you can handle via Plex within the app. I don't have a Roku, so I don't know the ins and outs of it, other than on the surface it appears to meet your need for $99 per TV.

For Boxee TV, it seems like it would be 1 boxee TV (with its own antenna) per TV, so using a 2 box solution, you're looking at $200 per TV. If you're using the Boxee DVR service, then you might be able to record on one and playback on the others with the same account. Aereo is probably the better option along with Roku.

Ok so doing some more reading it does look like that at this point the Roku + Plex Media Server route might be the simplest, most cost-effective method.

I use the android tv pc sticks, an HD HomeRun and a Synology NAS. the HomeRun can stream all of my OTA channels and will stream 1080p through cat 6 fine, the android boxes at the tv also run HD HomeRun via xbmc so with an android box or a PC with XBMC on it at each tv I have access to all of the files on my NAS, Streaming content (1channel, icefilms, ect.) and OTA channels.

This setup also makes it easy to access all of the stuff I mentioned on a phone or tablet as well with a good wifi router. Long story short XBMC rocks for home streaming/media access. and as for the roku, its a good plug it in and forget it box, its not very easy to customize after a point. I prefer the android tv boxes or a mini itx HTPC.