NOOBUILD - Dad needs some help

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elbarcosr

n00b
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
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Outstanding forum. Situation. Son read somewhere that the way to get parents to buy a gaming rig is to tell them you want to build one. Smart angle. His birthday is around the corner so I want to get him started. I've been looking at bundles at newegg and tigerdirect, but honestly I know absolutely nothing; i don't know if they bundle good stuff with crummy stuff to move out merchandise. I want to get him a solid base that he can upgrade as he goes.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Gaming.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
$400 if possible
3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

San Diego CA
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
I don't know. I guess case, motehrboard, cpu, ram, power supply, video card, what else?
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
nope
6) Will you be overclocking?
don't know
7) 7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
donno
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
now, no later than next week.
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video (as a backup or main GPU)? UEFI? etc.
All the features you think
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
ive got some windows 7 work computers not in use that i think i can transfer from

Thanks for your help/suggestions.
 
right now it seems to be skyrim, assassins creed, battlefield 3 on his consol; his school laptop is old and slow so he can't really game on it too well. i hear about wanting to play at max settings (refresh rate?) and lots of groans about lag.
 
Looks like there is a micro center up in orange county, I will be near there later this week. I looked at their flyer and saw if i went with the i5 3570 and motherboard, there is an additional $50 off. It looks like those two items would blow most of my $400 which I guess would be fine if that is a kick-ass base to work from. If the community could conjure me up a shopping list that keeps me around $500 it would be most appreciated.
 
hellp...do you want a $500 build with that i5 3570 and motherboard included or did you already choose that i5 and motherboard and now you have an extra $500 to spend on the rest?
 
Sure I could make you one:
- CASE:
o Brand: NZXT
o Model: Source 210
o Price: $40 (Amazon)
- PSU:
o Brand: Corsair
o Model: CX500 500W
o Price: $65 (Amazon)
- RAM:
o Brand: Corsair
o Model: CMX8GX3M2B1600C9 8 GB DDR3 1600
o Price: $40 (Amazon)
- GPU:
o Brand: EVGA
o Model: GTX 550 Ti 01G-P3-1556-KR
o Price: $100 (Amazon)(After MIR)
- HDD:
o Brand: Western Digital
o Model: Caviar Blue 500 GB
o Price: $60 (Amazon)
- CPU:
o Brand: AMD
o Model: Phenom II X4 965
o Price: $96 (Microcenter)
- CPU COOLER:
o Brand: Cooler Master
o Model: Hyper 212 Evo
o Price: $28 (Amazon)
- MOTHERBOARD:
o Brand: MSI
o Model: 970A-G46
o Price: $80 (Amazon)

This all comes to $510 and its pretty good quality for an additional $90 though you can get your kid an SSD which will speed up his computer drastically, if you like Kingston has one for around $90 that has 120GB.
 
vict0r said:
hellp...do you want a $500 build with that i5 3570 and motherboard included or did you already choose that i5 and motherboard and now you have an extra $500 to spend on the rest?
Click to expand...

No, not $500 more, I was clearly missing the big picture. Looking Vithar's list below, which is much appreciated, I guess if I went with the i5 and motherboard, and used the rest of his specs, I'd be looking at around $750 all in, which blows the budget right out. I just like the idea of spending a little more on the processor and mortherboard since I *think* those are the static items, whereas the rest of the components can easily be upgraded over time....
 
elbarcosr said:
i don't know if they bundle good stuff with crummy stuff to move out merchandise.
Click to expand...
Your hunch is correct: Newegg and Tigerdirect bundles often have really crappy power supplies that are capable of killing the PC.

elbarcosr said:
7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?
donno
Click to expand...

Please find out that information as that determines what GPU we should be recommending to you.
elbarcosr said:
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If so, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
ive got some windows 7 work computers not in use that i think i can transfer from

Thanks for your help/suggestions.
Click to expand...
Are they pre-built PCs or custom built PCs?

elbarcosr said:
No, not $500 more, I was clearly missing the big picture. Looking Vithar's list below, which is much appreciated, I guess if I went with the i5 and motherboard, and used the rest of his specs, I'd be looking at around $750 all in, which blows the budget right out.
Click to expand...
I would not go with Vithar's build due to two major issues:
1) There's no MC near San Diego and MC will not ship CPU deals.
2) Amazon.com now charges CA residents sales tax. So that's gonna really blow your budget out of the water

There's also some other minor-major issues as well:
- The GTX 550 Ti is a crap card for the money for gaming
- That PSU is ridiculously overpriced
- The case is a poor value
- The cost of a 3rd party HSF and that CPU without a definitive answer on overclocking makes that combo a poor setup for the money considering that you can get a faster Intel CPU at that price point.
elbarcosr said:
I just like the idea of spending a little more on the processor and mortherboard since I *think* those are the static items, whereas the rest of the components can easily be upgraded over time....
Click to expand...
Yes and no: A very solid CPU and motherboard can and will last a bit longer than a GPUor HDD. However, a solid PSU and case will also insure that you can upgrade later one without worrying about potential power issues or cooling issues.

Now, is that $500 including tax and shipping or not?
 
Danny Bui said:
2) Amazon.com now charges CA residents sales tax. So that's gonna really blow your budget out of the water

There's also some other minor-major issues as well:
- The GTX 550 Ti is a crap card for the money for gaming
- That PSU is ridiculously overpriced
- The case is a poor value
- The cost of a 3rd party HSF and that CPU without a definitive answer on overclocking makes that combo a poor setup for the money considering that you can get a faster Intel CPU at that price point.
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree these parts arent exactly high end but they were the cheapest I could find, you know that don't totally suck, anyway I don't wanna hijack this thread or anything I'm just wondering about 2 things:
1. When did amazon start charging sales tax?
2. Danny what are your preferred vendors?
 
$500 plus shipping and tax is doable. I will be near the MC in orange county later this week, so I can go in there and buy what they have going. I have amazon prime so even though they charge tax now, I usually can get the shipping free. Windows 7 home 64 bit. Monitor, he doesn't have one; it would be great if he could use a spare 32" vizo tv we have, but otherwsie he's gonna get an old work monitor of unknown resolution.
 
Amazon caved and started charging tax in CA a couple weeks ago since they want to build a whole bunch of distribution centers here and offer same or next day delivery on their own and eventually cut out fedex and ups.
 
Vithar said:
Yeah I agree these parts arent exactly high end but they were the cheapest I could find, you know that don't totally suck,
Click to expand...
THe problem is that they may be the cheapest but they're just poor value for the money. There's a point where it doesn't pay to go with the cheapest parts.

Vithar said:
1. When did amazon start charging sales tax?
Click to expand...
September 15th:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/05/business/la-fi-amazon-shopping-spree-20120905

I tried ordering a new Canon T3i several hours before that deadline from Amazon but then Amazon still charged me sales tax. So that's anecdotal confirmation from me.

Vithar said:
2. Danny what are your preferred vendors?
Click to expand...
Generally Newegg and Amazon.com. Though for CA residents, I may have to look more into Tigerdirect as they don't charge CA residents AFAIK.
elbarcosr said:
$500 plus shipping and tax is doable. I will be near the MC in orange county later this week, so I can go in there and buy what they have going.
Click to expand...
You'll be near there for other reasons correct?
elbarcosr said:
Windows 7 home 64 bit.
Click to expand...
Huh? What does this mean? is that the OS that came with those work PCs?
Vithar said:
Monitor, he doesn't have one; it would be great if he could use a spare 32" vizo tv we have, but otherwsie he's gonna get an old work monitor of unknown resolution.
Click to expand...
If that TV has HDMI or DVI, then yes he can definitely reuse that. However we still need to know the model number of that Vizio or at least whether it's 720P or 1080P.
 
Yes, I'll be near Mc for other reasons.
monitor: VX32LHDTV10A 32" HD 1366 x 768 native LCD HDTV.
OS. yes that is the OS that came with them. if he needs to go out and pop for an operating system of his choice with his own cash, that will be fine.
 
Is it evil to suggest not buying a video card and making your kid run on the integrated video...until he can purchase a video card himself?

$400-$500 goes a lot further when you take a video card out of the equation. The computer would still function, and play games on integrated graphics, but it would also provide your kid some pretty serious incentive to save up and buy a nice card himself (to go with the rest of his nice computer). I think it strikes a nice balance of "I'll help you out, but I'm not just going to give you everything"...
 
Kueller said:
Is it evil to suggest not buying a video card and making your kid run on the integrated video...until he can purchase a video card himself?

$400-$500 goes a lot further when you take a video card out of the equation. The computer would still function, and play games on integrated graphics, but it would also provide your kid some pretty serious incentive to save up and buy a nice card himself (to go with the rest of his nice computer). I think it strikes a nice balance of "I'll help you out, but I'm not just going to give you everything"...
Click to expand...

Blasphemy, he is the face of evil!!
No jk, but on a serious note I thought about that too but how is he going to run battlefield on integrated, I mean I can it even handle medium settings? It's not a terrible idea I just don't expect him to even be able to run battlefield on medium with that gpu.
 
elbarcosr said:
if he needs to go out and pop for an operating system of his choice with his own cash, that will be fine.
Click to expand...
Yeah he'll have to spend the $100 for a copy of Windows 7 Home Premium. Now does he actually have $100 right now to spend? No point in buying the PC if he doesn't have the money for the OS.
Kueller said:
Is it evil to suggest not buying a video card and making your kid run on the integrated video...until he can purchase a video card himself?
Click to expand...
Not a terrible idea depending on how long it'll take the kid to save up money for a new GPU. With that said, if the kid is planning on not buying a new monitor for a few years, the low resolution of that Vizio TV basically means that at most he'll have to spend on a GPU is $150. He would probably be fine with a $110 GPU as well.

Vithar said:
Blasphemy, he is the face of evil!!
No jk, but on a serious note I thought about that too but how is he going to run battlefield on integrated, I mean I can it even handle medium settings? It's not a terrible idea I just don't expect him to even be able to run battlefield on medium with that gpu.
Click to expand...
Low at best and at 800x600 probably.
 
Vithar said:
Blasphemy, he is the face of evil!!
No jk, but on a serious note I thought about that too but how is he going to run battlefield on integrated, I mean I can it even handle medium settings? It's not a terrible idea I just don't expect him to even be able to run battlefield on medium with that gpu.
Click to expand...

Well I'm thinking without a video card, the OP could probably go from that Phenom II to maybe a 3570k/HD4000. At 720p that's probably good for 25-30fps at low settings (this guy reports 10-20fps @1600x900). His kid wants "max settings" which just isn't going to happen at this price point. BF3 is also the worst case scenario, everything else will run better.
With a 3570k, the OP's kid has a great foundation to work with and put his own video card into.

A 3570k+Asrock Z77 Pro4 is like $250+tax at Microcenter.

Just an (evil, maturity and responsibility building) idea...Something a smart (and manipulative) kid might (grudgingly respect and) benefit from.
 
Sorry I stepped away. Its great to see the gears grinding. I knew I came to the right place. He's got a little cash, and some grandparents he can hit up for his birthday, and I see a great avenue to really ramp up the slave labor, err I mean chores around the house, so i am liking the 'get your own OS and video card" idea. Boo hoo that he doesn't get top end out of the gate, but it would be nice to start with a base that he can build up into something nice without having to ditch the setup and start new.
 
elbarcosr said:
He's got a little cash, and some grandparents he can hit up for his birthday, and I see a great avenue to really ramp up the slave labor, err I mean chores around the house, so i am liking the 'get your own OS and video card" idea.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately that still doesn't answer my question: Does he have $110 (added $10 for tax) for the OS right now? A PC is essentially useless without the OS and you really won't know if the parts of a PC is stable until you boot into an OS. Not to mention that most stores only have a 30 day return period. As such, if it takes longer than 30 days for your son to get the OS and if he has an issue with some of the parts of the PC, he's gonna have to deal with the manufacturer rather than the store. Which means additional costs due to shipping costs and wait time i.e waiting a week for the part to get to the manufacturer, another week for them to diagnose, and another week to ship back a replacement, etc. Compare that with some stores that offer free shipping back to the store and basically a one week to two week return turn around.

So again, does he have $110 right now for the OS?
 
He can use Windows 8 Release preview until January or he can use Windows 8 Evaluation but he will have to reload it every 30 days.

Windows 8 RTM will be available late October.

Just a thought.
 
Being a student, I would imagine he would be able to get a discounted version of Windows, I know when I was a student it was pretty cheap, like $25-$35.
 
Kueller said:
Being a student, I would imagine he would be able to get a discounted version of Windows, I know when I was a student it was pretty cheap, like $25-$35.
Click to expand...

Depends on whether or not he's a college student, whether or not his school is part of the MSDNAA, and whether or not they have that heavily discounted of a price. Though a .edu email also works too IIRC with some stores.
 
Last edited:
Danny Bui said:
Unfortunately that still doesn't answer my question: Does he have $110 (added $10 for tax) for the OS right now? A PC is essentially useless without the OS and you really won't know if the parts of a PC is stable until you boot into an OS. Not to mention that most stores only have a 30 day return period. As such, if it takes longer than 30 days for your son to get the OS and if he has an issue with some of the parts of the PC, he's gonna have to deal with the manufacturer rather than the store. Which means additional costs due to shipping costs and wait time i.e waiting a week for the part to get to the manufacturer, another week for them to diagnose, and another week to ship back a replacement, etc. Compare that with some stores that offer free shipping back to the store and basically a one week to two week return turn around.

So again, does he have $110 right now for the OS?
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
This build assumes your son is interested in overclocking.
i5-3570k CPU $190
Asrock Z77 Pro4 Motherboard $110-$50 MC combo discount = $60
8GB Samsung DDR3-1600 MV-3V4G3DUS $45
Lian Li PC-8NW Case $60 (use code 'LianLi926A')
Hitachi 1TB HDD $65
Corsair 650TX $90-$20 MIR = $70
$510 before tax and that $20 rebate.

You can certainly save a few bucks on the case and hard drive (or CPU and RAM if he doesn't want to overclock)...but this is a high quality starting point for a gaming PC. This has everything your son would need to assemble a working computer. It will not play games especially well until he adds a video card though.

Upgrades your son will want:
Graphics Card $100+
Heat sink and fan unit (HSF) $25+
SSD $60+
 
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I recommend this alternative setup:

265 - Core i5 3570K + Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard Microcenter combo
$37 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$87 - Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB SATA HDD
$62 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
$54 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
---
Total: $505 shipped plus tax on the CPU and mobo

I don't factor in MIR until you actually recieve it. So the TX650 that Kueller recommended is still $90 to me. That's way too high for the old TX650 when the newer and higher quality TX650 V2 costs the same.

Other differences:
- I factored in sales tax as much as I could.
- While the Lian Li case is of good quality, it's not a good buy since A) it doesn't have cable management features and B) no side fan for optimal GPU cooling
- I trust Asus a lot more than I trust AsRock
- That Hitachi drive has an above average death rate. Hence why I included a better drive.
 
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Danny Bui said:
I recommend this alternative setup:

265 - Core i5 3570K + Asus P8Z77-V LK Intel Z77 ATX Motherboard Microcenter combo
$37 - G.Skill Value Series F3-10666CL9D-8GBNT 2 x 4GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$87 - Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB SATA HDD
$62 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
$54 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
---
Total: $505 shipped plus tax on the CPU and mobo

I don't factor in MIR until you actually recieve it. So the TX650 that Kueller recommended is still $90 to me. That's way too high for the old TX650 when the newer and higher quality TX650 V2 costs the same.

Other differences:
- I factored in sales tax as much as I could.
- While the Lian Li case is of good quality, it's not a good buy since A) it doesn't have cable management features and B) no side fan for optimal GPU cooling
- I trust Asus a lot more than I trust AsRock
- That Hitachi drive has an above average death rate. Hence why I included a better drive.
Click to expand...
I didn't count the MIR in my $510 total...I still had to mention it being available.

On the other hand you forgot to count the $20 MIR on the P8Z77-V LK ($145 -$20 MIR-$50 Combo discount) in your $265 total for the CPU+mobo though. It's $285 before that MIR.
Asus isn't what it once was, 2 of the last 5 boards I've used from Asus had issues. And god forbid you have a problem you have to RMA: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1699092
The only problem the Asrock board seems to have is being DOA out of the box, and buying at microcenter that's an easy swap.

I like the hard drive change, I just grabbed that hitachi out of the microcenter ad.

Not a fan of a white case. They just end up looking dusty/dirty so fast if they're moving any decent amount of air. I'm not dead set on the Lian Li though, I just saw it on sale and it looked nice for the price.
 
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Kueller said:
On the other hand you forgot to count the $20 MIR on the P8Z77-V LK ($145 -$20 MIR-$50 Combo discount) in your $265 total for the CPU+mobo though. It's $285 before that MIR.
Click to expand...
Fair point.

Kueller said:
Asus isn't what it once was, 2 of the last 5 boards I've used from Asus had issues. And god forbid you have a problem you have to RMA: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1699092
The only problem the Asrock board seems to have is being DOA out of the box, and buying at microcenter that's an easy swap.
Click to expand...
Not an easy swap considering that MC is two hours away from where the OP is. So unless he's gonna be in the same area again for different reasons, return is gonna be an issue.

I'll admit Asus hasn't been performing well lately in the customer support department but the HardOCP reviews of past AsRock mobos have effectively ruled out a recommendation for AsRock from me in most cases. As such, I stand by my Asus recommendation.

Kueller said:
Not a fan of a white case. They just end up looking dusty/dirty so fast if they're moving any decent amount of air. I'm not dead set on the Lian Li though, I just saw it on sale and it looked nice for the price.
Click to expand...
The Black version didn't have free shipping. Hence why I went for the White.

Then again I do like white cases in general.
 
Hello again. Was passing by the Microcenter and ended up with the following. Before opening anything and getting to it, is there anything on the list that you would absolutely change-out for something else? I pass by the microcenter once a week, so returns are not a problem for me; not sure how picky they are on returns; figure i have 15 days to get this set. I kicked in my $500, the kid blew pretty much all the cash he had saved to make up the difference. Prices are as charged, and don't include a $20 MIR for the video card.

NZXT SOURCE 210 40
CORSAIR CX 500W 60
SEAGATE BARRACUDA 1TB SATA 7200 85
GeForce GTX 560 1GB 190
I5 3570K 180
WIN7 OEM HOMEPRO 110
SAMSUNG 22X DVDRW Burner 17
ASROCK Z77 PRO 75
KINGSTON 8GB DDR3-1333 PC3 35
TOTAL 792
TAX 62
GRAND TOTAL 854
 
elbarcosr said:
NZXT SOURCE 210 40
Click to expand...
Really not a good choice since $10 more gets you the Elite version which has an extra 140mm fan and front-panel USB 3.0 port. Well worth the extra $10 IMO.
elbarcosr said:
CORSAIR CX 500W 60
Click to expand...
Not a good choice at all since the higher quality and larger amperage (meaning it actually has more power for upgrades) Antec Neo Eco 520C costs around the same price:
$57 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
elbarcosr said:
GeForce GTX 560 1GB 190
Click to expand...
Really bad choice for the money considering that the faster HD 7850 2GB costs only $10 more:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131464
elbarcosr said:
ASROCK Z77 PRO 75
Click to expand...
Which Pro? That price is a little off.
 
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