I hope they just add content to the end. The more they add, the better.
If it's one extra cutscene and a few extra lines of text. . . yeah, that wont go over well.
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Mass Effect 3 SPOILERS THREAD
- Thread starter TheOneKnownAsMe
- Start date
I hope they just add content to the end. The more they add, the better.
If it's one extra cutscene and a few extra lines of text. . . yeah, that wont go over well.
MacLeod
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When Shepard first walks into the room with TIM, he's holding his gut and when he walks over to the control panel he's holding it. When he looks down at his hand, his whole arm is covered in blood. A gunshot wound in the lower gut wouldn't have blood all the way up his arm.
I totally see why you would think otherwise. Anderson gets shot in the lower left stomach and Shepard is wounded in the lower left stomach. I definitely could be taken that way but the dude just got fried by a Reapers beam that can level a skyscraper. Ya gotta think he's going to be bleeding all over the place.
As for his eyes, they were kinda glowy but TIM's eyes were implants and that's why they glowed. I think they just made Shep's eyes brighter as he was being burned to a crisp.
I don't know, there are a lot of things that don't make sense like why my squad (Liara and Garrus) end up on the Normandy when they were with me just a few minutes earlier. That stands out most to me. But I don't think its a sign of anything. Maybe they figure those were your 2 favorites and wanted to show you they survived or something.
I just think they rushed the ending and botched it. I think its as simple as that. They nailed Shepard's death scene, especially the "control" ending where he has to pick himself back up and grab those things and I have no problem with them leaving that alone but they clearly need to expand on everything after that.
^Shepard looks at the wound, which appears to be bleeding quite profusely, just at the point where Anderson dies. Doesn't that seem unusual?
I actually think Shepard is holding the right side when he first walks into the control room, but at the end he looks down at his left side. I will check later on youtube when I have tme.
Edit: I'm pretty sure Shepard is clutching the right side with his left arm when he first enters the Citadel. At the end he's holding his left side with his left arm.
I actually think Shepard is holding the right side when he first walks into the control room, but at the end he looks down at his left side. I will check later on youtube when I have tme.
Edit: I'm pretty sure Shepard is clutching the right side with his left arm when he first enters the Citadel. At the end he's holding his left side with his left arm.
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Actually, I don't. An energy weapon like that would most likely burn him. Cauterizing wounds, not punching holes in him.
If you look at the eyes they have the exact same look as the Illusive Man's. They have the two glowing dots flanking the iris. This is not a simple glowing effect. Look at it again, they are identical to the Illusive Man's eyes.
MacLeod
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I just think its a stretch. A wound in the lower gut isn't going to have your whole arm covered in blood. But I totally get why you'd think that cause its the same spot Anderson was shot.
We wont know til BioWare does or does not come out with something cause we're both seeing the same thing, we're just interpreting it differently. What you see as clues to an alternate ending, I see as a rushed and botched ending. Hopefully we'll find out for sure pretty soon but I hope they don't change the ending other than to elaborate on it. I know I keep going back to it but it got to me. After playing hundreds of hours with Shepard over the last couple years and then seeing that dramatic end with the music and the shots of the other characters, it really hit home. Its just a fucking video game and I keep thinking about it! LOL! I guess that's why I'm not wanting a change because in 3 decades of gaming, this is the first time EVER that a freaking video game had me gut wrenched. I would just hate for them to come out and say "psyche! Never happened".
You are wrong sir. I just watched it. The left arm sometimes moves up to grab the shoulder hit by Marauder Shields. Additionally, most of the time the arm swings free. He's walking as though he has a leg or back injury. In fact, he's leaning to the right, not the left. He's be leaning the other way if hit in the gut. And the theory that he had a wound that bled like a gunshot after being hit with an energy beam which cooked his armor is beyond thin. It's anorexic.
It's one thing for all of us to sit here and talk about how we remember it. So I will PROVE it.
Here Shepard has just woken up and is talking to Anderson. Presumably over the radio. Here he's moving toward the door to get out of this area.
Same thing here but slightly further along in the walk.
Here is where it gets fun. Why does the Shadow Broker ship sliding panels appear here? I don't know but I find the imagery interesting. Oh and Shepard still isn't nursing a gunshot inflicted by a laser beam.
Here here we are. Shepard has arrived in the control room. No side wound here.
And while talking to the Illusive Man, we again have no side wound.
Symptoms of indoctrination include headaches......... (Also, note the oily shadows of the dream sequences fitting both the codex entry and the Rachni Queen's description.)
This one was taken right after the Illusive Man forces Shepard to shoot Anderson. Not that Anderson is grabbing the left side of his abdominal region.
Now Shepard is holding his side right after the gunshot to Anderson was administered. This is Shepard walking to the control panel and the first time you see him hold that side.
Here is a good shot of Shepard taking the blue pill............Note the Illusive Man's styled eyes here. Two blue dots flanking the iris. Just like him. This is present in the synthesis garbage ending too.
And here we are with Shepard waking up in the rubble, in London after choosing the destroy option.
But let's say for a second the gunshot wound in the gut can still be discounted. Then explain all this:
- Why are there bushes and trees in the streets of London which match those of the dream sequence after Shepard gets hit by the beam?
- How did Shepard's squad mates end up on the Normandy after being hit by the beam?
- How did Anderson beat Shepard into the beam?
- Why does the communications chatter indicate no one made it? Everyone seems to believe all the forces are decimated. If Hackett believe that they were dead due to bad radios, suit metabolic scans going flat, etc. then why call him after Anderson dies?
- The oily shadows and the noises described in the indoctrination process by the Rachni queen not only occur in the dream, but at points during the entire Illusive Man / Anderson conversation.
- Why is it that the Illusive Man and Anderson never speak? You might think they do when Anderson says; "Your indoctrinated" but if you watch that closely, he only looks at Shepard when saying that. Never at the Illusive Man.
- Why is it that the Illusive Man is able to control Shepard and Anderson? There is no precidence of indoctrinated servants being able to control another telepathically or otherwise. And certainly they've never shown anyone who has been indoctrinated with the ability to manipulate those who aren't.
- Why do Shepard's eyes match the Illusive Man's exactly in the control and synthesis endings?
- Why can no one else see the boy in any of his real world appearances?
- Why is it that the Reaper growl occurs when Anderson walks in and finds Shepard staring into the air duct?
- Why didn't Anderson hear the boy?
- Why do the dream sequences match up precisely with the description of indoctrination given by the Rachni Queen is Shepard isn't indoctrinated? Additionally Shepard's physical symptoms at the end with headaches, noises, etc. match the codex entry concerning indoctrination as well.
- Shepard's armor is so badly damaged the magnetic mounting points for weapons do not work. It is unlikely that the radio works, but yet Shepard can reach Anderson right away. Hackett can't hear them and doesn't talk to them until after Anderson dies? WTF?
- Also, Anderson describes that part of the Citadel as looking vaugely like the description of the Collector ship. This doesn't make a lot of sense. Shepard's own view of it actually looks more like that of the Shadow Broker's ship.
- Why is it that in all cases, once the ending is chosen, Shepard can ignore the injuries which leave him almost crippled earlier?
- Why is it that the Starchild presents the destroy choice so radically differently than the others?
In case you missed it:
This part proves that the Starchild is a liar. He stated that Shepard would die from any of the choices, especially this one because he's partly synthetic. But if you look, here he is alive. Oh wait, I thought the Citadel blew up? How did he get down here so fast to take a nap in the comfortable jagged concrete chunks? Simple. He/she didn't. Shepard never made it to the Citadel.
I'm not saying the indoctrination theory is true. What I am saying is there are enough plot holes to sink a carrier and the fact of the matter is BioWare didn't fall off the wagon in the last 10 minutes of the game without a plan. These contradictions and sublte, and not so subtle clues go back to Mass Effect 1. These images are not here by chance. The clues are there. We do lack crucial context to know for certain what they mean but you can't take these endings at face value. Period, end of story. You can't have a cohesive story for 3 30+ hour games with few plot holes just to have so many in the last 10 minutes. I don't even think you can have this many issues in an ending by accident. This was done on purpose.
MacLeod
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Watch this video and Shepard is walking in to the room with Anderson and when the cut scene takes over and show Shepard from the front, is he not holding his gut with his left hand? I could swear I remember that from last night and it looks like it here. I can't be 100% cause I'm on my phone at work right now but it looks like it and then again after TIM dies and he walks over to the control panel.
http://youtu.be/VHXN3xtUu44
Now on this video when he looks down at his hand, the blood is all the way up his arm which wouldn't happen from holding a gunshot wound in your lower gut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evo0W-0eDFo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
So I think its not a gunshot wound but just being chewed up from either the Reapers beam or shrapnel from all the debris that was flying around.
Now one point you made that I totally agree with - TIM controlling both Anderson and Shepard. Where the hell did that come from? That and those shadowy effects do look like something is up but the thing about indoctrination is that I don't remember it ever being about hallucinations. You start thinking different but not hallucinating. That kid is a little odd too. How did the catalyst know it should appear as a kid that Shepard's been seeing since the opening scene of the game?
I remember the AI telling him he "could" die in the destroy option but not that he would. The only one he said he would die was be "control" option.
The other points are pretty good and do make me wonder. Collector ship? Doesn't look anything like it.
http://youtu.be/VHXN3xtUu44
Now on this video when he looks down at his hand, the blood is all the way up his arm which wouldn't happen from holding a gunshot wound in your lower gut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evo0W-0eDFo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
So I think its not a gunshot wound but just being chewed up from either the Reapers beam or shrapnel from all the debris that was flying around.
Now one point you made that I totally agree with - TIM controlling both Anderson and Shepard. Where the hell did that come from? That and those shadowy effects do look like something is up but the thing about indoctrination is that I don't remember it ever being about hallucinations. You start thinking different but not hallucinating. That kid is a little odd too. How did the catalyst know it should appear as a kid that Shepard's been seeing since the opening scene of the game?
I remember the AI telling him he "could" die in the destroy option but not that he would. The only one he said he would die was be "control" option.
The other points are pretty good and do make me wonder. Collector ship? Doesn't look anything like it.
MacLeod
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I think this is just reusing graphics from earlier. Coincidence
Agreed.
He said over the radio that he came up after Shepard.
Does seem weird. What happened to my squad?
Good point.
.
True but I think this is just bad animation. ME doesn't have superb and consistent animation.
Excellent point!
I don't think they do. Those look like reflections of the electrode things in the "control ending".
I didn't think this. There was nobody around when the kid was accept at the shuttle.
Because one was right outside.
He was in the other room.
Good point but I don't recall hallucinations being part of indoctrination.
Meh, maybe.
Good point.
I think more for dramatic effect.
I didn't think this one either.
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Drown Babies
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What really struck me, especially the 2nd time through, is how perfectly the visual representation of the "oily shadows" matches what I imagined from the Rachni's description, both in the dreams and in that encroaching vignette kind of thing at the end. I mean, the term "oily shadows" seems a little vague, but they seem to have tried hard to make such a good visual representation of it, that doesn't happen by accident. Maybe there is some confirmation bias affecting my interpretation, but the shadows in your dreams seemed to very clearly evoke an image of "oily shadows," that was apparent even on my 1st time through, before reading any of this stuff.
The same goes for the other seemingly incongruous images. It's not like in movies where continuity errors can easily happen, where objects move around between takes, or something switches from the right hand to the left hand. Everything that happens here has to be specifically created that way. The blood on your arm doesn't appear because of a makeup change, someone had to animate that change. You could argue that all of these discontinuities are just sloppy mistakes, the effects of a rushed ending, and you might be right. But I hope that Bioware didn't just fall on their faces after so much well crafted gameplay and story telling. I mean, they would have had to put more effort into that PTSD asari soldier on the Citadel than they did for the ending if that were true.
The same goes for the other seemingly incongruous images. It's not like in movies where continuity errors can easily happen, where objects move around between takes, or something switches from the right hand to the left hand. Everything that happens here has to be specifically created that way. The blood on your arm doesn't appear because of a makeup change, someone had to animate that change. You could argue that all of these discontinuities are just sloppy mistakes, the effects of a rushed ending, and you might be right. But I hope that Bioware didn't just fall on their faces after so much well crafted gameplay and story telling. I mean, they would have had to put more effort into that PTSD asari soldier on the Citadel than they did for the ending if that were true.
No, because the trees are not there when you're running to the beam.
What? Please.
Right, and no one even looks at him or helps him on the shuttle(there were people right there as he struggled).
Also, why does the boy say "You can't help me" while in the vent. Surely he knows who Shepard is. Even if he doesn't recognize him, he still see them as 2 Alliance soldiers with guns, why not go with them? Why board the shuttle later if he can't be helped?
Too bizarre for me.
Some angles of the camera had me wondering, but overall it doesn't look like he's nursing the gut wound until AFTER Anderson is shot. And actually, it's right after that. In fact if you really look at Shepard during the conversation, and angle except straight on shows that he's not holding anything in that hand / arm. I showed plenty of screen captures where he isn't. Again some camera angles make it look that way, but when analyzed, the majority of the time you can be certain he does not nurse a wound on that side until after Anderson is shot. And again the blood isn't there until after Shepard sits down and all that blood is completely gone after that. It could be a simple error on BioWare's part. I'll conceed that but he's not nursing a serious wound on that side until after Anderson is shot.
And the Starchild is very clear. Shepard will die in the control and destroy options. He doesn't represent the synthesis ending in such a manner. He states that all choices will lead to the destruction of the Mass Relays and that since Shepard is synthetic, he'll die in the destroy ending. As would the Geth. And again both control and synthesis show Shepard with eyes just like the Illusive Man's. This indicates full indoctrination. Only the destroy ending lacks this. If it were a reflection of the blue light pillars, then this image wouldn't appear on Shepard's eyes in the synthesis ending which has green light. Yet the blue of the Illusive Man's eyes show clearly in that ending as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbghjn7_Byc&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZOyeFvnhiI
Just watch these. The voice work in the first one comes entirely from the game itself. Specifically the codex entries. Don't believe me? Then fire up Mass Effect 3 and listen for yourself. The entry was updated a bit in ME3, but much of what is described goes back to ME1.
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enlightenedby42
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Huh. The indoctrination thing is looking a bit more viable to me as I read about it. I think they will be hard pressed to convince me that it wouldn't have been better suited for The Matrix than Mass Effect, but that does make it marginally more compelling.
I never played any of the ME2 DLC, so I'm thinking it might be a good time to hunker down, play those, and revisit this all of this after it shakes out a bit more.
I never played any of the ME2 DLC, so I'm thinking it might be a good time to hunker down, play those, and revisit this all of this after it shakes out a bit more.
Maplehamwich
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Those are some good images to help the thoery. I've got a REALLY good one of Shepard's eyes in the control ending, from the Bioware forums.
In this image, you can clearly see Shepard's eyes before indoctrination and after indoctrination, with a comparison of TILM's eyes.
TwistedAegis
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Finally started playing the MP, and it's actually pretty damn fun. The thing that weirds me out though is the description at the main menu when you get your readiness rating up into the 80th percentile..."Allied forces are holding and winning in key locations." Wtf, it really seems misleading.
That's a really great shot that proves the point. Nicely done. It's better than the one I took.
TwistedAegis
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I don't know that the shot proves the point. The irises of Shep aren't bionic like TIMs are; it's just the same pattern of the iris but more exposed due to the lighting and the change. The whites of her eyes do look like cables/cabling, but so does the textures on her face. I think I "believe" in the indoctrination theory, but I don't think this is conclusive by any means.
MacLeod
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The Catalyst says you will die in the control ending but for destroy it says "it will destroy all synthetics including the Geth. Even you are part synthetic." But it doesn't say specifically that you'll die. May be semantics but to me it leaves it open that you might not die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6kZuSHpWwo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
In that first video I posted, Shepard is only holding his gut when he first walks in. Throughout the rest of it, he's not but since he is when he first walks in, along with blood all the way up the arm, it leads me to think its was preexisting.
The eyes thing I just can't buy (but damn that above picture sure is persuasive). TIM's eyes were implants and that's why they glowed, not because of indoctrination. Its not like Anakin Skywalker's eyes glowing yellow when he turned to the darkside.
The main thing that makes me think its not a trick ending is the responses from BioWare. I just can't see them coming out with hat in hand apologizing and say they're working on clearing things up if this was a trick ending planned from the start. With this much backlash, I would come out and say to hold on, there's more to come. I think the ending was simply rushed and people are taking any graphics irregularity or plot hole as a sign of a grander scheme. I gotta think BioWare's responses would be different and we're now a month out from the games release with no hint of any forthcoming DLC to address the ending.
Now I will hedge my bets and say I'm not 100% sure because a lot of the screwy things you've pointed out certainly do seem odd. Does seem unlikely that a group capable of putting together this masterpiece could botch so many things in the last segment.
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Watch the last video. Seriously, watch these videos. The last one shows you various responses from BioWare and that's actually pretty much what many BioWare employees have said.
Yes the Illusive Man's eyes glowed. So did Saren's. Why would Shepard's eyes do that? Even if your Shepard is a renegade with out having gone through the healing proceedure to take care of the scaring, Shep's eyes NEVER look like that. Again I think it's symbolic just as the Illusive Man symbolizes evil and corruption to Shepard. All of it is pure imagery representing Shepard's internal struggle against indoctrination. Nothing more.
And with regard to the possibility of Shepard not dying in the destroy ending, again how did he/she arrive on Earth, in London? Seriously, you don't find that odd. With all the trees and shrubs from the dream appearing in the streets of London which weren't there before the beam hit, and wouldn't have survived a bean hit, you can't tell me that what Shepard is experiencing can be taken at face value. There is no way.The second video illustrates this point perfectly.
I've played through Mass Effect 3 three times now. I've also played the earlier games many, many times. The clues are all there. The ending can't be taken at face value. Not even remotely.
Maplehamwich
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For those having a hard time noticing the pattern in Shepard and TIM's eyes, I've edited a picture to help point it out.
Basically, you have a triangular dot pattern in both examples eyes. You also have a ring around the pupil. Lastly you have an evenly spaced vertical line pattern on the iris. I highlighted all of these except the iris in the below picture.
I think what is most telling, is that the patterns clearly did not exist in Shepard's eyes before the control option was chosen, but after control, they are clearly there. Whether that is proof of indoctrination is maybe up for debate, but it definitely signals some sort of movement towards whatever happened to the Illusive man's eyes.
I also don't think that TIL's eyes are that way due to implants. How would Shepard's eyes change from normal to TIL type pattern in that case? If Shepard had the same implants as TIL, should they not have appeared that way since ME2? I think Bioware intended something with the eye change.
Also, as stated Saren's eyes also glow blue. Now, because he was only in ME1, his eyes do seem different, but they also imply a sort of pattern representation. It could be that Bioware used ME2 and TIL to specify that pattern, which was inferred in Saren's eyes. Sorry, couldn't find a clearer shot of Saren's eyes.
Basically, you have a triangular dot pattern in both examples eyes. You also have a ring around the pupil. Lastly you have an evenly spaced vertical line pattern on the iris. I highlighted all of these except the iris in the below picture.
I think what is most telling, is that the patterns clearly did not exist in Shepard's eyes before the control option was chosen, but after control, they are clearly there. Whether that is proof of indoctrination is maybe up for debate, but it definitely signals some sort of movement towards whatever happened to the Illusive man's eyes.
I also don't think that TIL's eyes are that way due to implants. How would Shepard's eyes change from normal to TIL type pattern in that case? If Shepard had the same implants as TIL, should they not have appeared that way since ME2? I think Bioware intended something with the eye change.
Also, as stated Saren's eyes also glow blue. Now, because he was only in ME1, his eyes do seem different, but they also imply a sort of pattern representation. It could be that Bioware used ME2 and TIL to specify that pattern, which was inferred in Saren's eyes. Sorry, couldn't find a clearer shot of Saren's eyes.
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Colonel Sanders
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Or it's just simply the graphical look the artists came up with for the crazy disintegration effect on Shepard's body, based off of preexisting art to save time.
For those having a hard time noticing the pattern in Shepard and TIM's eyes, I've edited a picture to help point it out.
Basically, you have a triangular dot pattern in both examples eyes. You also have a ring around the pupil. Lastly you have an evenly spaced vertical line pattern on the iris. I highlighted all of these except the iris in the below picture.
I think what is most telling, is that the patterns clearly did not exist in Shepard's eyes before the control option was chosen, but after control, they are clearly there. Whether that is proof of indoctrination is maybe up for debate, but it definitely signals some sort of movement towards whatever happened to the Illusive man's eyes.
I also don't think that TIL's eyes are that way due to implants. How would Shepard's eyes change from normal to TIL type pattern in that case? If Shepard had the same implants as TIL, should they not have appeared that way since ME2? I think Bioware intended something with the eye change.
Well the Illusive Man's eyes may be implants. It's not clear to me when he became indoctrinated and even if it started years ago, I don't think he was suffering the full effects of it in Mass Effect 2. Regardless I think that the reason for Shepard's eyes showing that same effect has to do with symbolism. Again since none of it's real, everything is symbolic.
Also, Saren had been implanted a lot by Sovereign. Humans and other life are turned into husks very quickly. You don't need to go in for major surgery to end up huskified and gross. With regard to Saren's eyes, it may be the difference in graphical quality between the two games which results in the difference. Or simple differences in Turian physiology account for the difference.
Oh and it is in fact true that there is a caution sign anytime you see the boy in the real world. Given that he only appears twice, this may or may not be coincidence, but I found it interesting.
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CrimsonKnight13
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TIM's eyes aren't implants. He got them from being exposed to someone who had directly touched a specialized "dragon's tooth".
Maplehamwich
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I think if they don't represent indoctrination, it is very much likely that they are symbolic. As it definitely seems to be a dream, hallucination, or something. With that in mind, by choosing control, you are directly choosing a TIM type option. So the eyes, in the very least, must symbolize that.
What throw's the stick in the gears for me, is the synthesis ending, which also shows the eyes on shepard. I don't think synthesis is TIM - like at all. He's all about control and the ascension of humanity. Becoming a part of the reapers would not be a move TIM would make in my opinion.
Here's an image I found of the Sythesis ending, showing the eyes.
Monkey God
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I think that the ending sequence being indoctrination has a very high probability of being true. Regardless, it felt rushed and the consequences of your choices were similar and without detail or explanation. Prepare to plunder your wallets for DLC.
I need to read through the rest of the posts here, but I went off this:
Pic 1
It looks like he's grabbing the right side of his gut.
Pic 2
Tough camera angle here.
Pic 3
No fresh blood on his arms. The wound Shepard has at the end looked fresh.
I do agree that the wound we see later was not there when Shepard entered the Citadel. If anything, he's got something wrong with his right side (it could be the shot to his shoulder or it just could be the animation). His left side looks fine so far.
Edit:
After TIM has been dealt with:
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Farscape does NOT help your case sir. And I've never said that time travel plots can't be done well. What I have said many times is that time travel as a plot device is overused and usually done badly. The Terminator is one of my all time favorite science fiction and action movies. The whole plot of the series is based on time travel. Yet everytime they do it there are consequences from that and they don't just go in and put things back however they think they should be when it's over. As much as I like Star Trek and Stargate as a general rule they've often does it both justice and injustice in the same show. Partly by doing it too often. Other times because there are no consequences for messing with time or they are mitigated to such a large degree. The latest Star Trek film did it right in my opinion.
Most of the DLC for Mass Effect 2 is excellent. I really enjoyed Project Overlord, the Arrival and I most definitely enjoyed Lair of the Shadow Broker. That one represents one of the best plot lines in Mass Effect as far as execution goes. It's fun, it has good story, good voice acting, etc. And if you romanced Liara, it's a nice way to continue that relationship from ME1. There are additional upgrades, achievements and of course interesting dossiers on all the Normandy crew. You can gain a lot of insight into the characters as well as hints at making the right decisions to save everyone. Honestly I think the Lair of the Shadow Broker story is better if you romanced Liara as it has a little more resonance between Liara and Shepard. Though romantic tension is implied in all three games even if you don't go with her. Kasumi stolen memory was good. Not just for the character but because the mission itself was a lot of fun. It was different than what we usually see in the series, but in a good way. Also Kasumi is hilarious to take with you in the rest of the game. She's probably got more on mission dialog than anyone. Zaeed's mission was fun, but nothing special. However I do like the character. He also gives you a lot of latitude in the end game because he's a very powerful addition to the team. While Kasumi is weak, he's not. In fact he replaces Ashley as the most powerful squad mate damage wise.
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I saw this posted...
http://www.edge-online.com/news/jennifer-hale-weighs-mass-effect-3-ending
Interesting. So Jennifer Hale hasn't been contacted. I guess that means 1)BioWare hasn't gotten to the voice recording stage yet, 2) BioWare is going to restore deleted content as the ending, 3)BioWare already had Jennifer Hale do the DLC voice recording a long time ago.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/jennifer-hale-weighs-mass-effect-3-ending
Interesting. So Jennifer Hale hasn't been contacted. I guess that means 1)BioWare hasn't gotten to the voice recording stage yet, 2) BioWare is going to restore deleted content as the ending, 3)BioWare already had Jennifer Hale do the DLC voice recording a long time ago.
It's hard to know what that means really. Yeah it's possible that the voice work for what they need is already done, or they just haven't reached that stage yet. I'd agree. Also though, voice recording sessions aren't necessarily long. They might be able to get everything they need out of Jenneifer Hale and Mark Meer inside a week. We just don't know. So the reality is, we know nothing new. Either there is more content already there which we haven't seen or they are busy working to create that content. BioWare has admitted they'll do some DLC and clarify the ending, etc. but again this is so vague a statement it really tells us very little aside from the fact that there is more content incoming.
If the indoctrination theory proves to be true, then we'll get all the clarification we need as the game literally transitions to another section before ending again. There are just too many ways to interpret the statements BioWare has made thus far to be sure about anything.
Maplehamwich
[H]ard|Gawd
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She must not have had much involvement/linearity in the lines she read. I would think one of the main voice actors would find the ending that was put in place quite confusing too. Seeing as how the game is fairly linear in it's progression, then all of the sudden there are 20 minutes of cut scenes and "gameplay" that jump all over the place and have no linearity. But then again, maybe she is playing along to BioWare's wishes.
According to an interview with the chick that voiced Miranda, they don't really present a lot of context to you. You just record lines for the most part. She had to have someone try to give context to her in order to help her out since she wasn't really a voice actor before doing Mass Effect 2. She also said it's confusing because you voice lines in Mass Effect for different choices the player makes.
And if you listen closely to some dialog options in the games, the dialog may be similar, but the subtext of the line delivery sometimes changes. It's subtle and you don't always notice it. Honestly, none of the voice actors may know what the story actually is unless they've gone back and played the finished product. It seems to me like the voice director would sit there with a script that has all the different dialog branches and notes from the writers about what they need in the line deliver. So the voice director would say, OK, give me the same line you did last time, but make it sound more flirty or sexier. Alright, now give me this line, but sound really pissed off this time.
Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale also have tons and tons of dialog to deliver. Their voices are also heard, albeit applied with a different accent at times for extras as well. Dialog they've read for the game may not necessarily be done in order either as some details of a game like this will remain fluid until the end. They also probably record a lot of extra stuff that gets cut. So yeah, Jennifer Hale may have recorded dialog for various endings and never known that's what the dialog was for. That's probably gross over simplification of things, she may have been aware of many possible endings, but if she hasn't watched the final product or played it, she may not have the context needed to know where all her lines went.
killerbobjr
Limp Gawd
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You don't have to interpret the statements. Everybody is missing the obvious: There is no savegame available that lets you continue from the end of the game. The only save that is available near the end is the Citadel chapter restart, but only if you do NOT start another chapter (i.e. land on the Citadel or start another mission) after the end of the game. Once you do that, you'll have to restart from the Cerberus headquarters priority mission or a saved game from within the London chapter if you were astute enough to do that (on my first run, I didn't).
That savegame problem is very strong evidence that Bioware really intended the ending we see and does not intend to provide a "real" ending in a DLC.
Bioware can retroactively change things in a DLC and claim that the DLC is now the "real" ending, but you would still have to start over the entire ending sequence again. For most people, this means starting from the Cerberus headquarters mission. There's no way for Bioware to explain their way out of this issue in regards to the ending.
ME1 wouldn't let you continue after you beat the game either. You had no choice but to revert to an earlier save game that took place before you went to Ilos. (At which point the game treated it as a separate career created the day the save game was reloaded, even if the name was the same.) It looks like ME3 is the same way. I don't think that indicates anything. It wouldn't make sense in this context to let you go back to the Normandy and free play after the current ending.
And who is to say it won't behave more like ME2 does after a future DLC? We just don't know. It's hard to know what they can and can not get away with programing wise. Some things would have to be built into the game prior to the game's release certainly, but we do not know what all is there. Especially given this game's size vs. earlier installments. Now the way the game behaves it certainly allows for the insertion of additional DLC which takes place before the ending to be played prior to the end game mission. Still this in no way precludes them doing something different with an update. If a new ending comes out, I'm sure people will want to start off and do the whole end game again and see how things change, if at all.
Hmm... I could be wrong but I think the game still logs the choice you made at the end.
It would be weird if there was a save at the very end.
Drown Babies
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Even in ME2 most of the DLC can be done before the ending. Zaeed, Kasumi, Overlord, and the Hovertank thing are available from the start. The Shadow Broker might take place after the ending, I can't remember. But I think the only one that really must take place after the ending is Arrival, I remember that one being specifically referred to as a bridge between ME2 and 3. So I agree, the behavior of the post-ending save game doesn't really indicate anything.
They do something funky with how they record your choices based on both individual save game files, and the character as a whole. I imported a save game file from before I beat ME2 (I was trying to be in a romance with Tali), but the file still recorded me winning the game with 2 characters dead (which matched my actual post-ending save file from the same character). It didn't record any of the Shadow Broker or Overload data though, even though I had save files in that character with all of the DLC finished. So I wouldn't read to much into how they treat your post-ending save game data.
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Both Shadow Broker and Arrival (you see the collector general instead of Harbinger at the end) can be done in the middle of ME2. I know, I just did it last week.
All of the DLC can be done before or after the game's actual end. The dialog for the Arrival indicates it's actually after the main mission, though the dialog changes somewhat depending on when you actually do it. Lair of the Shadow Broker's dialog makes it most likely to take place prior to going through the Omega 4 relay. However, it's dialog changes a little depending on whether or not you've already done the suicide mission. Project Overlord's dialog doesn't place it in any time frame for the most part. Though at the end Shepard makes a statement to the effect of; "If the Illusive Man doesn't like it, he can fire me." depending on your choices. If so then this would indicate that it takes place before the suicide mission.
Both Kasumi and Zaeed's missions do indicate that you need them for the mission, so doing their missions afterwards makes little sense. And there is a high degree of probability that Kasumi will die if you don't do her loyalty mission first. Zaeed is the opposite. There is a good chance he'll survive so long as he's not in your squad when you go to fight the Reaper.
Yes they do. I think each conversation option you take gets recorded somewhere. There is also data passed from ME1 to ME2, and into ME3 that doesn't seem to do anything at all. The Asari Consort's trinket which activates a Prothean sphere for example. This quest is prominently tracked through the save data but doesn't seem to impact anything we know of.
What's interesting is despite having gone through ME2 now 8 times (working on the 9th, almost done) I still find new dialog in it and new conversation options here and there. I've also heard things from NPC's I hadn't heard before. Also the character's background and class impact the dialog somewhat as well. Some conversations options may even be available or closed off to you depending on what you did in a previous game. A friend of mine started a new game of ME2 one day and he had Joker saying things that I never have been able to get him to say. My girlfriend also reported different things said in her meeting with Zaeed that I've never been able to hear. My girlfriend had the same class and same background, but used FemShep, although my later FemShep playthrough still didn't get the same dialog she did. My friend who started the new game was an Infiltrator with the same background as me, and again had Joker saying things I had never heard before. Being right in the early part of the game I can only conclude that it was either something odd he did differently really early, or something he might have said differently in ME1 than I did.
I can go back over a couple different male Shepard paragon playthroughs in which I made similar choices and still certain dialog changes here and there. The order you do things, previous comments and choices, etc. must factor in somehow. When BioWare states that Mass Effect 3 imports 1,000 variables and changes the game based on those, I'm inclined to believe them. I'm just not sure exactly what all the variables do. Some are obvious and some aren't. Some conversation choices seem to close off other conversation avenues and open up others, etc.
It's why these games have had such a high replay value for me and it's why I almost never skip any dialog.
Seriously, that's what you are going with?
Because thinking there's some hidden meaning in a bionic eye texture map makes more sense? IT is all well and good (as a plausible excuse for a pathetic and poorly crafted ending), but some of this speculation is just asinine. The sad thing is Bioware can just roll with it and say "yeah, that's what we meant all along, well done".
MacLeod
[H]F Junkie
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Ive been watching videos all day while at my 2 jobs so I'm probably gonna get fired and although there are still a few questions that just stand out as WTF moments, I'm still sticking to my "this is it" theory that this is the intended ending and BioWare just botched it. I mean they've done it before. Look at the whole premise of ME2. Shepard is blown out of a ship and re-enters a planets atmosphere but they find his body and bring him back to life????? An atmosphere will burn up a metor that is several thousand pounds of rock, it would burn to ashes a human body. I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities that BioWare can come up with a WTF story line sometimes. I'm still not sure what the hell happened on Jacob's loyalty mission. His dad crash landed but didn't call for help but instead waited til all his people had turned into mental midgets after a decade. Wut?
Almost all the "proof" pointed out in those videos I watched were a good little stretch. Saying that the Catalyst was there longer in the control ending but disappeared quicker in the destroy ending so that's proof that it was a trick. Or that for a fraction of a second, Shepard's eyes look like TIM's which is proof he's indoctrinated even tho TIM eyes looked like that before he was indoctrinated. Stuff like that I just can't buy
Now my squadmates being on the Normandy doesn't make sense and Shepard waking up obviously in a pile of concrete looks a lot like he was unconscious the whole time after the Reaper blast and dreamed it all.
The biggest thing that makes me think we might be overthinking the room is BioWare. Their earliest tweets eluded to more to come but after the shit hit the fan, they've come out now and more than once saying "we're not changing the ending". Jennifer Hale saying she's not been contacted about recording more material is further evidence that the ending is the intended ending. I also think that we'd have something by now. Its been over a month since the games release.
Again, Im gonna chicken out here and not call it for sure because of the 3 or 4 gaping plot holes so I'm gonna say 75% chance this was not a trick ending and if any "indoctrinated DLC" comes out, it'll be something they slapped together after the fact in repined to the backlash. If that's the case it'll take a couple months to get all that together.
Almost all the "proof" pointed out in those videos I watched were a good little stretch. Saying that the Catalyst was there longer in the control ending but disappeared quicker in the destroy ending so that's proof that it was a trick. Or that for a fraction of a second, Shepard's eyes look like TIM's which is proof he's indoctrinated even tho TIM eyes looked like that before he was indoctrinated. Stuff like that I just can't buy
Now my squadmates being on the Normandy doesn't make sense and Shepard waking up obviously in a pile of concrete looks a lot like he was unconscious the whole time after the Reaper blast and dreamed it all.
The biggest thing that makes me think we might be overthinking the room is BioWare. Their earliest tweets eluded to more to come but after the shit hit the fan, they've come out now and more than once saying "we're not changing the ending". Jennifer Hale saying she's not been contacted about recording more material is further evidence that the ending is the intended ending. I also think that we'd have something by now. Its been over a month since the games release.
Again, Im gonna chicken out here and not call it for sure because of the 3 or 4 gaping plot holes so I'm gonna say 75% chance this was not a trick ending and if any "indoctrinated DLC" comes out, it'll be something they slapped together after the fact in repined to the backlash. If that's the case it'll take a couple months to get all that together.
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soulsavior
Limp Gawd
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Seriously, that's what you are going with?
I don't find it all that far fetched really. The ending was clearly rushed, so going with as many reused assets as possible would certainly save time. The thing with the trees is another one where I think people are seeing what they want to see. The trees and shrubs appear there before you're hit by the beam. While they certainly don't belong there, they do exist before the blast (maybe not in the exact same spots, but I don't think people are worried about the consistency of the placement).
A lot of the stuff really could be reuse of assets or coincidence really. The volume of it does make it hard to ignore though.
For me, I go back and forth whether or not I buy into it. At the end of the day, the thing that I just can't rationalize away is the fact that you wake up only after the destroy. Not only that, but it also takes the most EMS to do. It's only logical the "best" ending would take the most work. I was also jarred a bit to realize that control and synthesis represent the solutions of the two most prominent indoctrinated characters. Although it does kind of bother me you don't survive in the rest of the endings too. After all, if it was a dream, shouldn't you wake up in control/synthesis as well? Just because you pushed towards indoctrination doesn't mean you're dead.