How big is too big?

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NightOwl

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Jan 30, 2011
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So I finally decided to make the switch from Apple to PC, simply because as an engineer i will need to be using CAD software daily (mainly SolidWorks and Pro-E), and i really want to build something and learn new things.

Ill be building my own computer, and wanted some advice from all your long-time pc'ers.

Here are the components im thinking of getting.. .:

NTEL BOX CORE I7 960 3.20GHZ 4C HT 8M 4.8GT/S S13
ASUS S.1366 INT X58/ICH10R ATX3PCIE X16,6D.DDR3-13
KINGSTONVALUERAM-MEMORY-12GB:3X4GB-DI
1TB BARRACUDA 7200.12 SATA
32MB HD ASUS ENGTX470/2DI/1280MD5,GF GTX470,PCI-E 2.0,1280
LITEON 24X24 DVDRW SATA BLACKRETAIL, DUAL MICROSOFT OEM USB 2000 KB &
MOUSE OPTICAL
ANTEC SONATA III TAC MID 500W POWER SUPPLY
3 YRS PARTS & LABOR WARRANTY
2 x ASUS ML248H 24" WIDE LED, 2MS 1920X1080 10,000,000

$2575 + tx

Firstly, ive been looking at ANTEC's enclosures, and quite honestly prefer the NSK 4480B (http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MzU=) but the Sonata III 500 has 500W power supple, and the NSK only has 380W. I'm not familiar with power supply minimum requirements, but Ive been told not to go under 400W. Is that true?

Now my main question is about the monitor(s). Im currently using on a 17inch macbook pro, so the jump up to 24inches seems big... but even bigger if i go for dual monitors.
I decided that ill forsure invest in the dual monitors, but now its a question of size. Are two 24'' monitors simply too big ? I know most of you have more, but I dont game, and would only be using it for design work.
Also, my desk is 160cm x 80cm, so im scared ill be sitting too close to such big monitors.

Finally, any one have the ASUS ML248H? im looking for affordable monitors that look sexy. (coming from a design background (and as an apple user), sleek and stylish are important to me! )

:D thanks in advanced !
 
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I think the resolution might be more important than the size. I think dual 22" high resolution displays would suit you well also. It all depends on your deskspace but for me personally the bigger the better.
 
Are you sure you don't want to try and build it yourself? You should be able to save a nice chunk of change.
 
2x 24" at 1920x1200 is the best for me personally. If they made 2600 res 24" I'd go for that.
 
Build it yourself with the new sandy bridge tech (intel 2600k). Get a GTX 560 instead of the GTX 470 and that Antec case is not so great. Antec makes great cases, but the Sonata feels cheap. The Antec P183 would be a much better choice. Get a Corsair PSU in the 650 range.

You will probably come out at least $800 cheaper by building your self with better hardware.

2 x 24" is great and will give you plenty of real estate.
 
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I have a similar set up to your future set up. Sitting about about 50-65cm away from a dual 24" setup allows for easy use of both screens and space for a KB/M. 24" is not to big, dual 27" would be.

The 23" version (MS238H has the ring stand) and gets an ok review.

Your Mac book is Glossy right? If you don't have a problem with it I recommend getting the Glossy Acer G245H (10$ more then the Asus on Newegg), the transistion to a Matte screen may leave you disliking the grainy coating and possibly having sharpness issues when working for long hours.
 
with regards to parts:
in 2 posts (2!!) nobody has screamed i7 2600 yet.

get a core i7 2600!

what you probably want is going to look something like this:

core i7 2600k
P67 motherboard
2x4GB RAM (grab that $100 Gskill stuff if its still available).
Radeon HD 6950

to get really good advice you should answer these questions:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1349433

with regards to the monitor:
dot-pitch is really what determines the level of comfort in a monitor imho. More pixels is always better, and while big monitors can be something of a distraction for the first day or two of use, after that, the extra screen real estate is nothing but handy.

I personally run 2x 22" 1680 x 1050 monitors. I've been hoping to pickup a third for a while now. Like many here, I use the 2nd monitor for firefox/DB/etc while using the primary to code.

The one thing I will say is that I don't much like the 16:9 aspect ratio (23" and 24" 1920 x 1080 monitors), and two of them side by side will be very wide.
 
Thanks for all the help thus far.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Graphic design (photoshop, illustrator, lightroom) and CAD (SolidWorks and ProE). Also, a lot of webbrowsing, and the usual music and movies.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
Under 3000$ CAD, tax and shipping included
3) Where do you live?
Montreal, Canada
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.
CPU, RAM, enclosure, monitors, video card, memory, keyboard and mouse .... (the list goes on to include the much feared "Everything" since I only own apple products and will need to start from zero)
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
None :(
6) Will you be overclocking?
Maybe? Not so sure (im a noob, i know)
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
Planning on dual monitors above 20"... maybe two 24" ASUS ML248H
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
Next week
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? etc.
:S this is a pretty intimidating interrogation process... i dunno! any help?
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?
Nope

To answer all your questions (i havent figured out the quoting system yet :S):

-My desk is the Ikea Galant, http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/S89861208, so it can fit a fair amount, although i am in engineering and need my desk space for math homework.
-Actually im on a matte macbookpro, so glossy doesnt really interest me
-As for the high def... 1920x1080 compared to 1920x1200 makes a huge differences? Im just so pleased with the price and sleek design of the Asus ml248h ...
-What are you all saying about building it myself and saving money.... thats what i thought i was doing! (im sure i just made a fool of myself for saying that... )
-BDV, which 24" 1920x1200 monitors would you recommend?
-MrWizard6600, thanks, ill look into it! Is 12GB of ram a too much for me..? Seems like a lot of people are using way less.

Two more things... so far, with the component list i showed you, is it looking up to be a pretty cool first computer? or should i seriously look into changing the things around? I really dont know much about PCs, so its all very frustrating and confusing!

Finally, you guys are the best for helping me out! thanks
 
1920x1200 you want the HP ZR24W, they will run you double the price of the Asus. It's basically 1" more of vertical screen size and an extra 120 pixels. If you're going to be running 2 displays allready it's pretty pointless.
 
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NCX said:
1920x1200 you want the HP ZR24W, they will run you double the price of the Asus. It's basically 1" more of vertical screen size and an extra 120 pixels. If you're going to be running 2 displays allready it's pretty pointless.
Click to expand...

^^

This HP is probably the best price/quality monitor at the moment. I can't stand 1080p monitors.
 
Big thing is to make sure that video card is on the solid works supported list. I've run into issues with ones they didn't officially support in the past.

I have dual 22s personally and have been happy with that over the years. As long as you have the room for dual 24's I don't think it would be a big deal. Not sure if going above that would be that useful for most.
 
Those are US prices....

The HP ZR24W is better than the U2410 and doesn't cost 700$ Canadian.

If he is just programming the xtra 120 pixels is pretty pointless when running 2 displays, not worth paying a minimum of 50% more per display.
 
NightOwl said:
Now my main question is about the monitor(s). Im currently using on a 17inch macbook pro, so the jump up to 24inches seems big... but even bigger if i go for dual monitors.
I decided that ill forsure invest in the dual monitors, but now its a question of size. Are two 24'' monitors simply too big ? I know most of you have more, but I dont game, and would only be using it for design work.
Also, my desk is 160cm x 80cm, so im scared ill be sitting too close to such big monitors.

Finally, any one have the ASUS ML248H? im looking for affordable monitors that look sexy. (coming from a design background (and as an apple user), sleek and stylish are important to me! )
Click to expand...

This monitor is crappy, not sexy.
If you spend thousands on the computer, why economize on the most important part of your equipment - the monitor?
The technology of choice for design work is IPS.
1920x1080 is entry level resolution for housewives and their kids, not for designers.
 
albovin said:
This monitor is crappy, not sexy.
If you spend thousands on the computer, why economize on the most important part of your equipment - the monitor?
The technology of choice for design work is IPS.
1920x1080 is entry level resolution for housewives and their kids, not for designers.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I have a 500$ CAD budget for my monitor(s). And from looking around, it seems completely impossible to get 2 1920x1200 LCD monitors anywhere near that price.

therefore if i plan on staying in my budget, I figured the 2 24'' asus would be good. Im not a professional designer (yet)... i just do freelance and all my homework assignments on it. I still have 2 more years in engineering. And plus, i figured i would spend more on the main computer parts, and once i have enough money in the next few years, i can upgrade my monitors.
 
He is just being silly dont worry.

If you are fine with your TN Macbook you will be fine with the Asus displays. Spending 50% more and ending up with 1 monitor when on a budget is not logical. The go big or go home comments are also silly.

What's bigger or gives you more space to work with? 2x24" or 1x"24" 16:10? This is a rhetorical question.
 
NightOwl said:
Two more things... so far, with the component list i showed you, is it looking up to be a pretty cool first computer? or should i seriously look into changing the things around? I really dont know much about PCs, so its all very frustrating and confusing!
Click to expand...

You should post the component build in general hardware for more opinions.

But you should not get a lga 1366 build at this point over a lga 1155 build unless you need the following -

- The 6 core/12 thread 980x (considerably more expensive then the 2600k)
- 24gb vs. 16gb ram (this may be important for CAD work)
- the much higher amount of PCIe lanes (for triple GPU for instance)

Also for CAD and a non gaming build you should consider a workstation (Quadro,FireGL) video card.
 
NightOwl said:
Fair enough. I have a 500$ CAD budget for my monitor(s). And from looking around, it seems completely impossible to get 2 1920x1200 LCD monitors anywhere near that price.

.
Click to expand...

if you dont mind for used monitor, look around on ebay , i saw 2407wfp that goes for ~250 each today
 
if you time you can look in craigslist sometimes you find a smoking deal. i got a Dell 2408 brand new still in sealed box for $250 last 2 years.
 
I just typed out a nice big reply... and closed the window by accident.

albovin said:
This monitor is crappy, not sexy.
If you spend thousands on the computer, why economize on the most important part of your equipment - the monitor?
The technology of choice for design work is IPS.
1920x1080 is entry level resolution for housewives and their kids, not for designers.
Click to expand...

designers is a big word; designers encompasses everybody from artists, who need color-accurate DFHDSIFH-S-IPS monitors, to engineers, who don't. I’d go for a couple of cheap 1980 x 1080 24” or 23” monitors if I was OP, which can be done for maybe ~$600 CAD.
So a few things before I talk about hardware suggestions:

A) SanForce and Intel have both announced new stuff for SSD’s. SanForce claims their soon-to-be-released SF2000 controller to be capable of 60k random-4KiB IO/s, up from ~30-40k on the fastest modern intel or sanforce drives, coupled with Sequential reads of 500MB/s (on SATA-III, obviously), up from the ~220MB/s SATA-II limits current SSD’s to, (and up from the 350 Micron-Crucial achieves with their SATA-III drives). Intel’s next gen is also a little faster, granted not as fast as the Sanforce drive. Both are due out in Q1 2011, so you might want to wait for those.

B) AMD’s Bulldozer is out soon. The architecture itself is fairly different from anything out there, with “Modules” that consist of 2 ALU’s on a single scheduler, making them neither 2 or 1 core, but somewhere in between. The desktop model will come with 4 of these modules and will show up in Windows as an 8 Core –most are calling this AMD’s stab at Hyper-Threading. Details are very sketchy, but some supposed leaked benchmarks have this thing looking pretty good. AMD is also bringing back their “FX” moniker with this generation of CPUs, making it the first time a CPU has had this label since AMD got their asses handed to them by Conroe. A leaked roadmap has 2 SKU’s showing up in April and 1 more in May. I’m waiting until then to build myself a new system.

C) the FireGL and Quadro stuff is really application specific; if you can think of a reason to go with that stuff then by all means, but going with it because "I heard it was good for autoCAD" really isn't a very good reason to drop 2x or 3x as much on your video card.

I would've expected DannyBoi or a few others to chime in here and offer a build suggestion, but I guess they're not because they're generally in the General Hardware section. You should go make a thread over there, or PM a mod here to get him to move this one.

Anyways, my suggestions:

$246.70 - Intel 2600k (3.4GHz, 8MB L2 - the extra ~$25 on the "k" over the vinella 2600 is enabling a handy overclocking feature.
$163.85 - Asus P8P67 (P67 + 2x SATA-III + 2x USB 3.0 - really left with little choice. This is Asus's base P67 model.
$275.15 - Crucial C300 128GB (SATA-III) - @see notes below
$98.37 - WD Caviar Black 1TB - One of the fastest spinning drives on the market
$203.62 - 2x GSKILL Ripjaw F3-12800CL9D (8GB, DDR3 1600, CAS-9)
$139.99 - XFX 850W Black ($40 MIR, rebranded Seasonic M12D) - alot of ugly bling on the front but one of the best performing units on the market.
$179.99 - XFX HD 6850 - Double lifetime warranty is nice, actual support is mediocre.

$229.99 - Asus Xonar Essence STX - After buying my Bravura [significantly cheaper card] and listening to a couple Asus STX cards I can honestly say I'll never go back to Realtek's audio tyranny.
$179.99 - Sennheiser HD 555 - Defacto HQ headphone standard, probably the most comfortable headphones ever made.

$123.77 - Win 7 Home Premium - unless you can think of a specific need for Active Directory support, XP-mode, or network backup, theres no need to go with Pro edition.

$54.99 - Microsoft Ergonomic 4000
$29.95 - Microsoft Comfort 4500

________
$2046.36

$286.49 - 14% GST + PST
~$50 - Shipping
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~$2382.85 - doesn't include monitor(s)

... god damn this filter, damn it so hard. all of my links, replace ++++ with N C I X lower case and no spaces
suprisingly the amazon one made it OK...
 
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If you do go sandy bridge I recommend waiting until the chipset issues are worked out
 
MrWizard6600 said:
designers is a big word; designers encompasses everybody from artists, who need color-accurate DFHDSIFH-S-IPS monitors, to engineers, who don't. I’d go for a couple of cheap 1980 x 1080 24” or 23” monitors if I was OP, which can be done for maybe ~$600 CAD.
Click to expand...

Doing cad work on a 1080p monitor? No thanks.

As for the how big is too big question, you get used to the size. If you have the desk space for it 24" isn't that much and I really doubt that you will feel that it's too large once you get accustomed to it.

I would really recommend at least 1200 vertical pixels, anything under that is really cramped in comparison, especially for CAD work.

Everyone deserves a decent monitor, it's the monitor you sit in front of all day and it easily outlives the computer. But yes, I'm sure that OP can live with a TN display, but a *VA/IPS display is more pleasant to use and it makes more sense for multi-display setups where bad viewing angles will be more apparent.

But I really want to stress the importance of at least 1200 vertical pixels. My vote goes for the HP ZR24W.

NCX said:
If he is just programming the xtra 120 pixels is pretty pointless when running 2 displays, not worth paying a minimum of 50% more per display.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are actually running displays in portrait mode just to get more vertical real estate when programming...
 
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