Does nVidia have more clout with game developers than Ati?

Derangel said:
Nvidia works with a lot of studios to do that stuff. ATI really doesn't, at least not as much. Nvidia having a higher market share than ATI probably helps a bit too.
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I suggest you read this http://www.bit-tech.net/bits/interviews/2010/01/06/interview-amd-on-game-development-and-dx11/1

its a great interview with ATI about their developer relations, from what i gather they have just as much "clout", the only difference is Nvidia markets their involvement more than ATI/AMD does. really you can tell just by this thread alone. Just because its a TWIWMTBPed game doesn't mean ATI didn't also have any sort of developer / engineer relation with that game. its just more that Nvidia likes to slap their name all over everything and because of there is a sense that Nvidia does and ATI doesn't.
 
I'm not boasting anything. Eyefinity is not 100% fool proof at the moment though and I think this is widely regarded. PhyX isn't perfect either but my point of this thread was, nVidia just seems to work when it's implemented with a developer. Call it a buy out, a shady dealing under the table, whatever.....but it does work.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
My bad, my bad programming guy. I meant "feature". :rolleyes:
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You can get all sarcastic and roll your eyes, but it just highlights your own ignorance. You completely missed my point. PhysX is something developers EXPLICITLY use. Eyefinity isn't. Of course an explicit API works more reliably - it gets tested as part of the development process by the game developers.

Eyefinity is much closer to something like SLI. Remember back when Nvidia re-introduced SLI? It *SUCKED*. It didn't work in most games, and those it did work for scaled horribly. Then there were cards like the 7950GX2 which were basically hopelessly broken due to lack of good SLI support. Over time as SLI improved and became more common, it started scaling much better.

Eyefinity's lifetime will be much the same. It came out, highlighted flaws in developers code, and it will take time for current developer shortcuts to slowly be worked out.
 
Then it's fair to say the same about physX. The kinks are being rolled out lately, and it's being put to better use. Batman and Dark Void anyone?

YOU fail to realize...physX is a feature to enhance games. Eyefinity is a component of the entire 5000 series cards. A feature sold to you out of the box. It should work better. With updates, yes it will get ironed out. But tell that to the guys paying a grand for it.
 
Dark void?

I never noticed any physics in one of the comparison video's I saw, have you got one showing physics?
 
edifyingkarma said:
We are talking Nvidia's Physx GPU acceleration here people, not the quantity of games that make use of any sorts of physics.
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Sigh....

that is why I posted a list of games that uses nvidia's physx MIDDLEWARE (owned and licenced by nvidia)


those aren't havok titles my friend ;). Yes, some of them will let you run them from a CPU without a nvidia/ageia card present, but all of them will let you run it off the hardware if you have a G80+ nvidia or an ageia physx card in your machine.
 
dr.stevil said:
Sigh....

that is why I posted a list of games that uses nvidia's physx MIDDLEWARE (owned and licenced by nvidia)


those aren't havok titles my friend ;). Yes, some of them will let you run them from a CPU without a nvidia/ageia card present, but all of them will let you run it off the hardware if you have a G80+ nvidia or an ageia physx card in your machine.
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No, only games specially designed to use gpu's will use them.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
YOU fail to realize...physX is a feature to enhance games. Eyefinity is a component of the entire 5000 series cards. A feature sold to you out of the box. It should work better. With updates, yes it will get ironed out. But tell that to the guys paying a grand for it.
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No, I think your fialing to realize the point he's making and its not a failure in his comprehension or understanding. Try reading his post again.

In addition, Eyefinity is sold to you in the box and is promised to work with certain games. The compatibility list is available on ATI/Eyefinity's website and shows which games are claimed/guaranteed to work. It was posted on page 2 of this thread if you want to see the list.

To use your analogy, complaining Eyefinity doesn't work with every possible product out of the box is akin to buying a 'D' cell battery for your remote that uses double A batteries. If the remote clearly showed double A batteries, its your fault for buying D batteries. The remote manufacturer makes the information available on what type of batteries it uses. If YOU assume D batteries would work even though the manufacturer doesn't guarantee it and states A, it would be YOUR failure, not the manufacturers for having the remote not work out of the box with every type of battery.
 
Anyway, isn't it the games fault rather than ati's fault that eyefinity won't work properly. If a game is made properly to support widescreen then it should support eyefinity should it not?
 
necrophile said:
Anyway, isn't it the games fault rather than ati's fault that eyefinity won't work properly. If a game is made properly to support widescreen then it should support eyefinity should it not?
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Correct. All Eyefinity issues with games has thus far been the fault of the game. Very similar to the transition from 4:3 to 16:10 back in the day. That should have been a seamless change as well, but devs are lazy and take shortcuts.
 
kllrnohj said:
Troll much?

How about we blame the party that is causing the issue? Which, in the case of Eyefinity, is the game developers. Eyefinity itself works just fine.
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Not even close. But to say a company is never to blame, is pure, blatant, fanboyism. I blame nvidia, I blame ati. It's normal. You need to hold a company accountable when it doesn't deliver what it promised. It's just the rules of the game. No matter what company. Hey, if you want to spend a few g's and get half of what you paid for, thats up to you. I know I personally wouldn't like to drive a new 20k mustang GT off the lot missing half it's HP or maybe you get that HP back if you keep it and drive it for a year straight until you hit a certain mileage.
 
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necrophile said:
Anyway, isn't it the games fault rather than ati's fault that eyefinity won't work properly. If a game is made properly to support widescreen then it should support eyefinity should it not?
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yea, its like when widescreen monitors first came out. there were lots of games that didn't "correctly" support FOV changing etc..

the big one i remember is BF1942, not only did it not support wide screen monitors, but it didn't support the popular 5:4 res (1280x1024).

If you hooked up a 5700x1200 monitor to any current video card (even Nvidia), teh games that don't work still wouldn't work because Eyefinity is "invisible" to the game. its not that a game has to be programmed specifically to Eyefinity, it just has to be programmed to poperly alter the FOV and is also dependent on how the game handles 4:3 and 16:9 resolutions.

Like with Bioshock , its a crop of how much you see instead of a stretch, so instead of increasing the FOV it decreasing the "view port" by cropping the top and bottom. Proper Widescreen support should always be an extension of the FOV with the resolution and not a "crop" of the top and bottom.

eyefinity is just an extension of our widescreen issue, its taken this long for widescreen to finally mature where it has become a standard, Eyefinity type resolutions will mature the same way. Infact i venture that we will see mature faster because some developers are already onboard with proper widescreen support. Its the few (like BioShock) that still have to fix the way they do things.
 
Well, as an Ati 5870 owner, I wish eyefinity nothing but the best. I hope it does develop into something special. Just a few kinks to work out. But it is definitely a game changer. :)
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Not even close. But to say a company is never to blame, is pure, blatant, fanboyism. I blame nvidia, I blame ati. It's normal. You need to hold a company accountable when it doesn't deliver what it promised. It's just the rules of the game. No matter what company. Hey, if you want to spend a few g's and get half of what you paid for, thats up to you. I know I personally wouldn't like to drive a new 20k mustang GT off the lot missing half it's HP or maybe you get that HP back if you keep it and drive it for a year straight until you hit a certain mileage.
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Ok, I see what you mean now. What you mean is that you *thought* AMD said Eyefinity works with every game known to man. But since they have a list of games it does work for, and it indeed does work for those games, I guess they did deliver what they promised.

Some games have FOV and aspect ratio problems, that would be something developers need to work on.

AMD needs to work on getting crossfire working 100% with the games that do Eyefinity, that is not in question.
 
The technology has been out almost a half a year. There is no excuse. This is my whole point of this thread. Are they really working with developers and vice versa as much as we think? or are alot of the devs partial to nVidia?
 
It's out of their hands. Eyefinity is a catchy name for multi-monitor support. It just presents more "possible" resolutions to the application. If the application doesn't deal with those resolutions well there's nothing AMD can do about it.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
The technology has been out almost a half a year. There is no excuse. This is my whole point of this thread. Are they really working with developers and vice versa as much as we think? or are alot of the devs partial to nVidia?
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Half a year is an incredibly short amount of time. Games can take years to develop, and Bioshock 2 is running on a 3 year old engine.

ShuttleLuv said:
Not even close. But to say a company is never to blame, is pure, blatant, fanboyism. I blame nvidia, I blame ati. It's normal. You need to hold a company accountable when it doesn't deliver what it promised. It's just the rules of the game. No matter what company. Hey, if you want to spend a few g's and get half of what you paid for, thats up to you. I know I personally wouldn't like to drive a new 20k mustang GT off the lot missing half it's HP or maybe you get that HP back if you keep it and drive it for a year straight until you hit a certain mileage.
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You need to learn to read, seriously. I didn't say ATI was never to blame, I said in the case of Eyefinity ATI isn't to blame. Eyefinity itself, which is a method of spanning a DirectX or OpenGL game across multiple monitors, has thus far worked just fine. All of the problems you are complaining about are due to the game suddenly going "shit shit shit - what the fuck just happened to the aspect ratio?". That is completely outside of ATI's control (and Nvidia's, once Surround View is released). It is 100% a game problem. To claim otherwise is simply wrong.

Your Mustang GT analogy is wrong. A better analogy would be that you buy a Mustang GT that advertises a top speed of 150 mph, and then get pissed at Ford when the speed limit is 60 mph.
 
Nope. It's Ati's technology. They had ample time to plan for this, to coalesce with certain devs to try to implement this technology. Companies do this all the time with consoles.

My analogy is fine. You just seem to think you might be einsteins grandchild or something and somehow yours is better? It's not. I mean it's really simple to understand. You go shell out $1000 for three monitors, maybe $400 - 800 for Crossfire, yet you come home and hook it up and alot of the games aren't working properly or require a hack and crossfire eyefinity support is very iffy at the moment. I mean whats the point of releasing tech when the devs haven't planned for it, BUT you make it your focal point as a company? It's pretty much like Ford advertising a Mustang to run at 450 HP and when you pull it off the lot you can barely hit 370...until you get a few free service calls down the road that supercharge your HP.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Nope. It's Ati's technology. They had ample time to plan for this, to coalesce with certain devs to try to implement this technology. Companies do this all the time with consoles.

My analogy is fine. You just seem to think you might be einsteins grandchild or something and somehow yours is better? It's not. I mean it's really simple to understand. You go shell out $1000 for three monitors, maybe $400 - 800 for Crossfire, yet you come home and hook it up and alot of the games aren't working properly or require a hack and crossfire eyefinity support is very iffy at the moment. I mean whats the point of releasing tech when the devs haven't planned for it, BUT you make it your focal point as a company? It's pretty much like Ford advertising a Mustang to run at 450 HP and when you pull it off the lot you can barely hit 370...until you get a few free service calls down the road that supercharge your HP.
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Your analogies do need work. Eyefinity is working as advertised. Getting a car that doesn't work as advertised is kinda not the same at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Nope. It's Ati's technology. They had ample time to plan for this, to coalesce with certain devs to try to implement this technology. Companies do this all the time with consoles.

My analogy is fine. You just seem to think you might be einsteins grandchild or something and somehow yours is better? It's not. I mean it's really simple to understand. You go shell out $1000 for three monitors, maybe $400 - 800 for Crossfire, yet you come home and hook it up and alot of the games aren't working properly or require a hack and crossfire eyefinity support is very iffy at the moment. I mean whats the point of releasing tech when the devs haven't planned for it, BUT you make it your focal point as a company? It's pretty much like Ford advertising a Mustang to run at 450 HP and when you pull it off the lot you can barely hit 370...until you get a few free service calls down the road that supercharge your HP.
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And ATI's technology WORKS. When a game is stretched across 3 monitors but the FOV and/or HUD is screwed up, Eyefinity is still doing its job. ATI doesn't control the FOV, ATI doesn't control the HUD, ATI doesn't control the game. What ATI *DOES* control is what resolutions the game sees, and THAT works just fine. THAT is what Eyefinity is - a span mode. Nothing more.

ATI *DID* work with devs, games *DID* support Eyefinity immediately (such as Dirt 2). I don't think I'm Einsteins grandchild, I think you're Larry the Cable Guy's son.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Your analogies do need work. Eyefinity is working as advertised. Getting a car that doesn't work as advertised is kinda not the same at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
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How is it not? You plunk down 20 g for a car, dont you want it to do what it's advertised to do? If you plunk down 2 g for a eyefinity setup, don't you want it to just work? It might work with a few titles, but not ALL titles. And xfire eyefinity is very IFFY.

And it might work with Dirt 2, but if thats the only noteworthy title, that's not very noteworthy at all. Sorry. :(

Larry the cable guy ha ha ha thats funny. I might be larry but how smart is it to plunk down all that cash and still not get to use what you want? I don't care whose fault. I dont care if Ati is a span mode, or if Ati works for C-Span. I don't care. They are a big enough company to try and make sure the games display correctly using their technology.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
How is it not? You plunk down 20 g for a car, dont you want it to do what it's advertised to do? If you plunk down 2 g for a eyefinity setup, don't you want it to just work? It might work with a few titles, but not ALL titles. And xfire eyefinity is very IFFY.

And it might work with Dirt 2, but if thats the only noteworthy title, that's not very noteworthy at all. Sorry. :(

Larry the cable guy ha ha ha thats funny.
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You're now journeying into The Realm of the Obtuse. Re-read my post as many times as you need. AMD has NEVER said their Eyefinity works with EVERY title. It does, however, work with *many* titles. If you can be bothered to check the list linked earlier in this thread about which games work with Eyefinity, then there is no debate, you're just being innacurate.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
You're now journeying into The Realm of the Obtuse. Re-read my post as many times as you need. AMD has NEVER said their Eyefinity works with EVERY title. It does, however, work with *many* titles. If you can be bothered to check the list linked earlier in this thread about which games work with Eyefinity, then there is no debate, you're just being innacurate.
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So it's smart to plunk down a ton of cash on displays and such for a "feature" from a company that doesn't even admit to "supporting officially" alot of games? That basically means, hey, heres the technology we allow you to span displays, we did our part but if devs don't make use of this tech, tough shit and we have your money. How is that smart? I never said AMD said they supported all games, I said they damn well should, if not 95% of them for the cost.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
So it's smart to plunk down a ton of cash on displays and such for a "feature" that doesn't even admit to "supporting" officially alot of games? That basically means, hey, heres the technology we allow you to span displays, but if devs don't make use of this tech, tough shit and they have your money. How is that smart? I never said AMD said they supported all games, I said they damn well should, if not 95% of them for the cost.
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Ask Scooby Doo and his gang of crime solvers, this is getting a little too surreal for me.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
So it's smart to plunk down a ton of cash on displays and such for a "feature" from a company that doesn't even admit to "supporting officially" alot of games? That basically means, hey, heres the technology we allow you to span displays, we did our part but if devs don't make use of this tech, tough shit and we have your money. How is that smart? I never said AMD said they supported all games, I said they damn well should, if not 95% of them for the cost.
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I've missed some of the conversation here so excuse me. Does Eyefinity not work at all with some games or all games work but some just partially?

I get what youre saying phsyX is a bonus feature where as Eyefinity is the reason for buying an ATi 5xxx that would be the reason for me anyway so it should work with all games out of the box. I mean that's gonna be a deal breaker for me thats why I'm asking.

A better vs would be 3D vision. 3D vision works with all games no question but it doesn't necessarily work perfectly with every game. I'm hoping that's true with Eyefinity.
 
piscian18 said:
I've missed some of the conversation here so excuse me. Does Eyefinity not work at all with some games or all games work but some just partially?

I get what youre saying phsyX is a bonus feature where as Eyefinity is the reason for buying an ATi 5xxx that would be the reason for me anyway so it should work with all games out of the box. I mean that's gonna be a deal breaker for me thats why I'm asking.

A better vs would be 3D vision. 3D vision works with all games no question but it doesn't necessarily work perfectly with every game. I'm hoping that's true with Eyefinity.
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These guys here will tell ya it works with everything. But the truth is, it doesn't. Some games require hacks to work, others don't work, others do. Crossfire Eyefinity support is very iffy at the moment. Watch Kyle's vid on Bioshock 2 for more reference.
 
I've got to say, this guy is a pretty bad troll. He's got the whole "You're wrong, <repeat previous statement that was already proven wrong.>" thing down well though.
 
piscian18 said:
I've missed some of the conversation here so excuse me. Does Eyefinity not work at all with some games or all games work but some just partially?

I get what youre saying phsyX is a bonus feature where as Eyefinity is the reason for buying an ATi 5xxx that would be the reason for me anyway so it should work with all games out of the box. I mean that's gonna be a deal breaker for me thats why I'm asking.

A better vs would be 3D vision. 3D vision works with all games no question but it doesn't necessarily work perfectly with every game. I'm hoping that's true with Eyefinity.
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refer to http://support.amd.com/us/eyefinity/Pages/eyefinity-software.aspx


ShuttleLuv said:
These guys here will tell ya it works with everything. But the truth is, it doesn't. Some games require hacks to work, others don't work, others do. Crossfire Eyefinity support is very iffy at the moment. Watch Kyle's vid on Bioshock 2 for more reference.
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i think you need a lesson in reading comprehension. i don't believe he said it works on all titles, there is a list provided by ati that is officially supported.....

LeninGHOLA said:
You're now journeying into The Realm of the Obtuse. Re-read my post as many times as you need. AMD has NEVER said their Eyefinity works with EVERY title. It does, however, work with *many* titles. If you can be bothered to check the list linked earlier in this thread about which games work with Eyefinity, then there is no debate, you're just being innacurate.
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Come on stop the troll crap, we're debating. I've been here far too long to be a troll. As for the bottom guy, well, you can't read either. The guy above me asked if all games are supported and I said no. He said thats a deal breaker. It's the truth. I just meant there are so many fanboys here I'm sure some will come in and say that. I wasn't naming that guy above me in particular.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
I want to know why when a game developer utilizes an Ati function, it's either flawed or non existent and when a game developer utilizes an nvidia function, it works well, even spectacular. I'm wondering if nVidia is buying off more than we think. This has been going on for years and years now.
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Works spectacular?

I bought Batman at release and on my GTX 285 the PhysX kept switching off randomly after a short freeze mid-game. It was never resolved by the time I finished the game and uninstalled it. I spent the majority of the time with no PhysX because I couldn't be bothered restarting the game every 10 minutes. It was actually a relief when it did break as the framerate went up considerably without random bits of paper flapping about on the floor. Unfortunately the bits of paper were oddly arranged and floating.

I reinstalled Batman and went through it a second time when I got my Eyefinity rig up and running. It ran flawlessley at 5760x1080 on my 5970 card. The only issue was zoomed in cutscenes but that didn't bother me enough to want to use the FoV fixer mod just for cutscenes.

TL : DR In Batman AA, PhysX didn't work half the time and was a bit 'meh' when it did anyway. Eyefinity worked out of the box and looked stunning. Go figure.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Crossfire Eyefinity support is very iffy at the momen
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It's not 'iffy'. It's not present at all yet in their mainstream driver releases. There was a hotfix driver in December that introduced it for some games if people want to beta test it. They were very clear in December that Eyefinity Crossfire and bezel management were not ready but would be coming over the next few months.
 
^ Thats too long to wait imo. And 5 months to finally "officially" ackknowledge the grey screen issue? Come on now...
 
Come on stop the troll crap, we're debating. I've been here far too long to be a troll.
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Trolling is a art. Time spent on the forum means nothing. I've been present at other forums for as long as you've been at this forum and there are most definitely times I've trolled at that forum.
 
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