AMD, Please Don't Die

B

Banana King

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Messages
74
I have recently decided to use an AMD processor - rather than an Intel - in my new system build. One would think that my decision would have been based upon performance, accessibility, overclocking potential and all the other aspects of a good CPU.

No.

My decision was based almost solely upon the fact that if AMD goes down as a result of a botched Phenom release and the eventual discontinuation of two of their most popular models (the 6000+ and 6400+ http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/12/05/k8_will_not_die_more_to_come_in_2008/1) among other misfortunes, then we're all pretty much screwed. We could be paying top dollar for last year's budget models if it weren't for "The Underdog" to keep the market competitive. But Intel couldn't be so devious. Could it?
 
Ha. This reminds me of the "Buy locally grown" concept instead of buying from Walmart. Someone should make a banner with something like that with AMD and Intel for kicks.

I was considering doing something similar to that possibly but it looks like my next PC is a Core2Duo or Quad. Oh well.
 
Banana King said:
I have recently decided to use an AMD processor - rather than an Intel - in my new system build. One would think that my decision would have been based upon performance, accessibility, overclocking potential and all the other aspects of a good CPU.

No.

My decision was based almost solely upon the fact that if AMD goes down as a result of a botched Phenom release and the eventual discontinuation of two of their most popular models (the 6000+ and 6400+ http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/12/05/k8_will_not_die_more_to_come_in_2008/1) among other misfortunes, then we're all pretty much screwed. We could be paying top dollar for last year's budget models if it weren't for "The Underdog" to keep the market competitive. But Intel couldn't be so devious. Could it?
Click to expand...
90nm is dead, don't worry, a higher clocked 65nm parts will replace them with a lower TDP, the 5600+ Brisbane and maybe more. Their 65nm process is not as matured as their 90nm parts yet.
 
nonameo said:
The behaviour that you are getting is the behaviour you are rewarding.
Click to expand...

exactly....single users buying into AMD's botched products under the veil of "pulling for the underdog" is misguided well doing.....

i can appreciate the OP's intention, however his purchasing decision is rewarding their failures and will make ZERO difference financially to AMD in terms of keeping AMD afloat

what AMD needs is internal improvements to make competitive & reliable products at a competitive price point and on a competitive schedule, and finally it needs large OEM's to buy in mass quantities

but OEM's will be hesitant as long as they release broken parts a day late and a dollar short like they have been doing lately, so should single users like the OP.....if they find they can make money off of sub par performance, they will continue down that path, and in the end, that is even worse for competition

i just wish a bigger better company would buy AMD/ATI and make it a competitor again instead of a joke, we DO need the competition in the marketplace no doubt, buying into this crap they are offering is a hollow attempt at saving a company that screwed you in the first place

honestly as a company, they should sell off the CPU and Graphics divisions to a company that can make something of it and focus on their strong points like their parts going into mobile devices, etc.....they need to focus on what they know they do well and stop trying to re-invent the wheel, let another company that has a strong background in that do that
 
I just bought a Q6600 and for the first time in my computer-building career (7 years), this is the first Intel rig I will have built for myself. I bought AMD in the past either because it was the best bang for the buck or it was the best performer at the time. Had I been able to drop a Phenom into my existing motherboard with a BIOS update and had there not been the errata problem I would have most likely bought a Phenom.

The lies and deceit that AMD has been practicing lately and the complete and utter dissapointment in Phenom really leaves me no choice.

AMD is a day late and a Mhz short both with its processors and GPU products.

I spec'd out a Barcelona-based server for my company that cost literally half the price of a comparably spec'd Dell server.........most of the cost savings came from not having to use ridiculously expensive 4-gig sticks of FBDIMMS.

My company went with the Dell................because you can't find a Barcelona in stock anywhere (and now we all know why). On top of that, with this damn errata issue, it heavily affects VMWare performance, which is what the servers were spec'd out for in the first place. I'm actually glad the Barcelonas aren't in stock as I would have alot to answer for with the piss-poor performance.

The only thing I hate about Intel is their idiotic push-pin heat sink mounting system.

I supported AMD before because they were the underdog and they were trying to compete. Until they shit-can their upper management, quit trying to put blinders on the media, quit crapping on their existing customers (thanks for the AM2 will work with Phenom lie), and actually make their products competitively-priced (Phenoms have to be priced way below 200 to make up for expensive AM2+ boards), I'll be sporting Intel from here on out.
 
MassiveOverkill said:
thanks for the AM2 will work with Phenom lie
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I'm running a Phenom 9600 on an AM2 motherboard at the moment, so it is not a lie. Most of the complaints I've seen regarding AM2 and Phenom are bargain boards that are not receiving BIOS updates from the motherboard manufacturers. I get the feeling that some of these bargain boards just don't have the flexibility in voltages that are needed (so even a BIOS update won't do). That's not AMD's fault but the fault of the motherboard manufacturers for cutting corners.
 
I would love to see a percentage of AM2 boards to AM2 boards that will run Phenom. Hell I would love to see a list of AM2 boards that will run Phenom with a BIOS update.
 
DesertCat said:
I'm running a Phenom 9600 on an AM2 motherboard at the moment, so it is not a lie. Most of the complaints I've seen regarding AM2 and Phenom are bargain boards that are not receiving BIOS updates from the motherboard manufacturers. I get the feeling that some of these bargain boards just don't have the flexibility in voltages that are needed (so even a BIOS update won't do). That's not AMD's fault but the fault of the motherboard manufacturers for cutting corners.
Click to expand...

i dunno....dont you think it would have been prudent to mandate that no board can be certified AM2 unless it would accept and run Phenom CPU's down the road, and make BIOS updates required once the time came...????

thats what i would have done if i was AMD back then....they just HAD to push 939 out and AM2 in......how wonderful..
 
we all should be on 3.0ghz 1 megx2 dual core 939's in 65nm

if we were, AMD would be in business. but no. they wanted to rape you.

i feel sore myself sitting on my 2.2 4200 939 chip looking at the 2.6 for all that cash (opteron dual 939_ and laughing.

amd isnt my buddy anymore it seems. phenom i would do but it still isnt really all that cheap and it really doesnt work :(
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
we all should be on 3.0ghz 1 megx2 dual core 939's in 65nm

if we were, AMD would be in business. but no. they wanted to rape you.

i feel sore myself sitting on my 2.2 4200 939 chip looking at the 2.6 for all that cash (opteron dual 939_ and laughing.

amd isnt my buddy anymore it seems. phenom i would do but it still isnt really all that cheap and it really doesnt work :(
Click to expand...

If anything, AMD probably saved you money, and did you a favor. The average gamer is GPU bound and doesn't even realize it. The average user currently has no need for more than two cores, and yet is told otherwise. The average web surfer doesn't need a 64-bit chip or operating system, and again has absolutely no idea.

Many enthusiasts make it seem as if choosing AMD over Intel, or vise versa, is an important life-changing decision... but it's not.
 
In before the lock....


A like thread was killed by Kyle two posts in last week.


I am in for a BE when they hit.I already have all the other parts sitting here now. :eek:
 
~El~Jefe~ said:
we all should be on 3.0ghz 1 megx2 dual core 939's in 65nm if we were, AMD would be in business. but no. they wanted to rape you.
Click to expand...
Would you purchase such a chip if it was available now?

i feel sore myself sitting on my 2.2 4200 939 chip looking at the 2.6 for all that cash (opteron dual 939_ and laughing.
Click to expand...
What do you mean dual 939?
 
Banana King said:
I have recently decided to use an AMD processor - rather than an Intel - in my new system build. One would think that my decision would have been based upon performance, accessibility, overclocking potential and all the other aspects of a good CPU.

No.

My decision was based almost solely upon the fact that if AMD goes down as a result of a botched Phenom release and the eventual discontinuation of two of their most popular models (the 6000+ and 6400+ http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/12/05/k8_will_not_die_more_to_come_in_2008/1) among other misfortunes, then we're all pretty much screwed. We could be paying top dollar for last year's budget models if it weren't for "The Underdog" to keep the market competitive. But Intel couldn't be so devious. Could it?
Click to expand...

LOL, well it's your money so no one can tell you where to spend it.

But it doesn't sounds right to buy a botch product just to keep AMD alive. Because if everyone does so, then it gives an impression that even if they screw up, their die hard fans will still buy them just to support them, or whatever. It's sort of like, it doesn't matter if they screw up or not, just release them knowing their fans will buy them. This certainly isn't going to push them to do any better in the future.

AMD is not going to "die" at the moment. They made a huge mistake, they have to face the consequences and learn from it. Hopefully, next time around, they wouldn't make the same mistake.
 
LOL.. some of you guys remind me of stock traders or high energy investment analysts. ohhhemmgeeee!?!? A remote oil pipeline in Siberia had a leak, jack up gas prices to $4.00/gal!! It's the end of the world!?

:rolleyes:
 
Hornet,

I am not a die-hard fan. Nor did I purchase a "botched" product (5000+ Black Edition, in fact). When AMD sees that everyone is ignoring Phenom and continuing to buy its older models, it will hopefully acknowledge defeat and return to its roots of low-priced, quality processors. I am by no means condoning the purchase mediocre products, for the consequences of such actions are certainly as bad as you illustrated them to be. AMD has a niche, and it should simply try to expand within it.
 
Banana King said:
I am not a die-hard fan. Nor did I purchase a "botched" product (5000+ Black Edition, in fact). When AMD sees that everyone is ignoring Phenom and continuing to buy its older models, it will hopefully acknowledge defeat and return to its roots of low-priced, quality processors. I am by no means condoning the purchase mediocre products, for the consequences of such actions are certainly as bad as you illustrated them to be. AMD has a niche, and it should simply try to expand within it.
Click to expand...
Releasing 65nm optimized variants of K8 is certainly one way of securing the low end.
 
i have been using amd since 2000 and this is the norm for them, so they are not going anywhere
 
ALL4AMD said:
i have been using amd since 2000 and this is the norm for them
Click to expand...
Yes, it is and many have posted historical references to support their arguments to that effect, but this time AMD is in much deeper debt. Manny and a few other astute financially-minded individuals pointed the fiscal predicament AMD finds itself in currently. It was only recently that AMD's debt exceeded its net worth, or something similar to that dire effect. This isn't good, and I believe even Hector mentioned that the company's main objective presently is reducing its liability. The company is in an extremely serious financial situation now, more so than in the past.
 
APOLLO said:
Yes, it is and many have posted historical references to support their arguments to that effect, but this time AMD is in much deeper debt. Manny and a few other astute financially-minded individuals pointed the fiscal predicament AMD finds itself in currently. It was only recently that AMD's debt exceeded its net worth, or something similar to that dire effect. This isn't good, and I believe even Hector mentioned that the company's main objective presently is reducing its liability. The company is in an extremely serious financial situation now, more so than in the past.
Click to expand...


dont worry Intel will be forced to bail them out, or face monopoly charges by the feds :)
 
what's with all the Intel fanboys lately? we know Intel is the way to go right now for most things. No need for dipsh*ts to keep making wisecrack comments every other post in the AMD forum of all places. Seriously grow up already.
 
ALL4AMD said:
i have been using amd since 2000 and this is the norm for them, so they are not going anywhere
Click to expand...
When since 2000 has AMD been a single $50 million interest payment away from bankruptcy? Other than right now I mean. :p

Or when has AMD posted $2 billion in losses during a four quarter period (which mostly eats at cash on hand despite additional loans, and the cash squeeze has already delayed AMD's infrastructure improvements)?

Or when has AMD run out it's ability to borrow traditionally financed money?

Believe it or not, AMD is not doing business as usual. They are currently in a very dire circumstance, burning through cash and saddled with very large interest payments that not even historical high gross margins can overcome.

Even though Dirk Meyer deserves at least as much blame as Ruiz for the Barcelona/Phenom fiascos, "anyone but Hector" come April will be a good choice.
 
Is AMD so bad off on a cost / performance standpoint?

Dollar for dollar, which performs better? Is it Intel or is it AMD?
 
If you're talking Phenom, it currently has worse price/performance than a Q6600. For example, the Phenom 9600 is priced the same but 10 - 15% slower in overall performance (20 - 25% slower if you count the TLB patch :eek:).
 
Met-AL said:
Is AMD so bad off on a cost / performance standpoint?

Dollar for dollar, which performs better? Is it Intel or is it AMD?
Click to expand...

It depends on what price range you are looking at, for example the 6000+ stock is the best bang for buck.
 
pxc said:
When since 2000 has AMD been a single $50 million interest payment away from bankruptcy? Other than right now I mean. :p

Or when has AMD posted $2 billion in losses during a four quarter period (which mostly eats at cash on hand despite additional loans, and the cash squeeze has already delayed AMD's infrastructure improvements)?

Or when has AMD run out it's ability to borrow traditionally financed money?

Believe it or not, AMD is not doing business as usual. They are currently in a very dire circumstance, burning through cash and saddled with very large interest payments that not even historical high gross margins can overcome.

Even though Dirk Meyer deserves at least as much blame as Ruiz for the Barcelona/Phenom fiascos, "anyone but Hector" come April will be a good choice.
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All of the above is of course true.What I dont for the life of me understand,is why hasnt AMD announced deeper cuts and more importantly layoffs.As I stated the other day,I
am only waiting for the other shoe to drop.In almost any large company,payroll is your biggest expense.Yes it'll soundly kill morale,but it has to be done ! Get it over with and
move on.
 
j0j081 said:
It depends on what price range you are looking at, for example the 6000+ stock is the best bang for buck.
Click to expand...

Is it?

I'd say the E4600 is a good match for it, it's $10 cheaper (according to Newegg prices) and it has a 65W TDP, compared to 125W for the X2 6000+.
 
im >kinda< supporting amd by scooping up an s754 venice 3200+ to tide me over due to the penryn delay.

well....if buying used crap on ebay counts lol

amd just needs to ramp up 45nm as fast as possible and i think they'll overlap intel with comparable technology for a year or so till intel moves on to the post-nehalem offering, amd moves on to their new stuff, at which point who knows who will come on top
 
Manny Calavera said:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168829 :confused:

WTF is this all about ?
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ocworkbench said:
AMD Phenom gets killed easily with high vdimm set

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

According to a reviewer who has been testing Phenom CPUs, he has killed 4 Phenom 9000 series CPU by applying just 2.3-2.5v to the vDIMM setting.

So, beware if you intend to o/c the Phenom, bumping up the voltage to 2.3v can easily kill the memory controller resulting in a dead CPU.
Click to expand...
Rev B4 to the rescue! :p
 
harpoon said:
Is it?

I'd say the E4600 is a good match for it, it's $10 cheaper (according to Newegg prices) and it has a 65W TDP, compared to 125W for the X2 6000+.
Click to expand...

well I did say at stock. the 6000+ is about equal to the e6550 stock if I remember correctly, maybe even comes close the the e6750 in a few things. the 6400+ and e6750 are about equal.
 
j0j081 said:
It depends on what price range you are looking at, for example the 6000+ stock is the best bang for buck.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to see an article done up by [H] or Anandtech or some other respectful site that detailed the cost/performance ratio.

So many people seem still stuck in GHz to Ghz comparison. It didn't work with the P4 to the Athlon, it surely doesn't work with the C2D to the Athlon64.

It should be x$ platform compared to x$ platform.
 
j0j081 said:
well I did say at stock. the 6000+ is about equal to the e6550 stock if I remember correctly, maybe even comes close the the e6750 in a few things. the 6400+ and e6750 are about equal.
Click to expand...
I think you remember incorrectly. :p The 6000+ is slower than a stock E6600 (2.4GHz). It should be around the same speed as a stock E4600.
 
nonameo said:
The behaviour that you are getting is the behaviour you are rewarding.
Click to expand...

Precisely. I couldn't agree more here.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
They're not going anywhere.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are either. AMD has operated in the red for a number of years and I have every reason to believe they can continue to do so.

Met-AL said:
Is AMD so bad off on a cost / performance standpoint?

Dollar for dollar, which performs better? Is it Intel or is it AMD?
Click to expand...

It probably depends on the price point. Intel wins currently in absolute performance, but not always in price. When overclocking is factored in though, I think things generally lean to Intel's favor.

pxc said:
Rev B4 to the rescue! :p
Click to expand...

That might fix the erratum but not the problems with generally poor performance.
 
don't reward companies for being bad. reward companies for being good. it keeps capitalism working smoothly.
 
pxc said:
Rev B4 to the rescue! :p
Click to expand...


I dont think a revision will 'fix' whats being discussed below in the link.Tony from OCZ is saying he has been getting this info from 'many people' about K10 (Phenom)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2616654&postcount=17


:(


This is unsettling news to be sure,no matter how you look at it.If your an overlcocker,then more so.If 2.3 will kill it right away or within hours,what will say 2.2 do to it over weeks or days ? And are you willing to fork out hard earned cash to find out the [h]ard way?

I wante(ed) a BE to play with,but this makes me pause more then all the rest.I have a lot of Crucial ram kits that defaults to 2.2...
 
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