Bioshock installs ROOTKIT!! Demo too!

PoweredBySoy said:
Online activation is jerkwad? Geez, you're in for a long future of software piracy me thinks. Even limited keys, which is used in damn near every piece of commercial software. That's just the world we live in these days.
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But limiting you to 2 activations PERIOD is the issue,,

I reformat my computer via an image once a month, thats my choice. I paid for every piece of software I own, and I have the RIGHT to use it in a reasonable manner.

Ive probally called microsoft 100 times since XP was released to activate over my various computers Ive built and tinkered with.

2 times total, no thanks.
 
Im just going to come out and say it...

Do you 2k fanbois understand the bullshit that is flowing out of your mouths?

Anyways PC is not dying and quit calling all PC users pirates its just not true...

Dont be mad that my system runs this game 10x better than your anus 360 box.

And since your using a PC to rant here than that means you are a pirate using a PC you PC user you. :rolleyes:
 
Spazilton said:
But limiting you to 2 activations PERIOD is the issue,,

I reformat my computer via an image once a month, thats my choice. I paid for every piece of software I own, and I have the RIGHT to use it in a reasonable manner.

Ive probally called microsoft 100 times since XP was released to activate over my various computers Ive built and tinkered with.

2 times total, no thanks.
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are you blind did you not see what i posted the drm infection it installs on your pc IS HARMFUL AND CONSIDERED MALWARE securerom installing a rootkit is the issue to hell with the activations you know root kit like what sony did but i would say this is far worse
 
Well after saying that I wouldn't buy the game because of the rootkit (naughty 2K spying on us) I couldn't wait, so bought it late last night. The rootkit stuff is relatively easy to remove anyway (thanks to Maxius for the link) Once I've finished the game it'll be coming straight off.

No problems activating the game online. The game also auto-patched upon install. Smooth process. You just need to be careful that you enter alphabetical O's and not numerical zeros and vice versa when entering the activation code.

Great game btw, very atmospheric. Playing on hard and it's a good challenge. Telekinesis is great fun! I'd say go buy it - play it -enjoying it and they clean up your PC. Then sell it on eBay ;)
 
I am having a blast enjoying this game to be honest. I'm sure all the problems will get resolved eventually. I wish there wasn't any kind of DRM, but as long as it doesn't prevent me from playing, I could care less to be honest.
 
I don't want anything installed on my computer that i'm not aware of up front so I can decide if I want it installed or not. F**k this game, no loss here.
 
In threads like these you can see who the real gamers are.

Personally, I wouldn't care if a game tried to install 50 viruses and spyware and forced a camera to watch me as I play. I'd find a way past it because NOTHING would stop me from playing a good-quality game like Bioshock. I feel sorry for some of you wimps.
 
damonposey said:
In threads like these you can see who the real gamers are.

Personally, I wouldn't care if a game tried to install 50 viruses and spyware and forced a camera to watch me as I play. I'd find a way past it because NOTHING would stop me from playing a good-quality game like Bioshock. I feel sorry for some of you wimps.
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So you're a real gamer if you would allow a game to install 50 viruses and spyware so you can play it? That's more like you're an idiot.

I've been playing PC games on and off for the past ten years so I can appreciate a good game. The game can be the greatest game ever made, I don't appreciate having any type of software installed without me knowing about it. People either care or don't care about stuff like this and it's not going to change.
 
damonposey said:
In threads like these you can see who the real gamers are.

Personally, I wouldn't care if a game tried to install 50 viruses and spyware and forced a camera to watch me as I play. I'd find a way past it because NOTHING would stop me from playing a good-quality game like Bioshock. I feel sorry for some of you wimps.
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It helps to note what people have said if you read a thread and post in it.

Many arent buying the game out of protest to get 2K to change their ways.
Others dont want horrible stuff installed on their PC.
Others dont want to have to use hacks to get a satisfactory solution, especially as many of the hacks arent legal.

I'm happy for you that you can remain blind to everyone elses issues,
After all, the only thing that matters is being a gamer, oh and the only person that matters is you.

I actually feel sorry for you lol.
 
number69 said:
So you're a real gamer if you would allow a game to install 50 viruses and spyware so you can play it? That's more like you're an idiot.

I've been playing PC games on and off for the past ten years so I can appreciate a good game. The game can be the greatest game ever made, I don't appreciate having any type of software installed without me knowing about it. People either care or don't care about stuff like this and it's not going to change.
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Nenu said:
It helps to note what people have said if you read a thread and post in it.

Many arent buying the game out of protest to get 2K to change their ways.
Others dont want horrible stuff installed on their PC.
Others dont want to have to use hacks to get a satisfactory solution, especially as many of the hacks arent legal.

I'm happy for you that you can remain blind to everyone elses issues,
After all, the only thing that matters is being a gamer, oh and the only person that matters is you.

I actually feel sorry for you lol.
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It's an exaggeration obviously about 50 viruses that you obviously didn't comprehend. The point is, I know enough about computer software that I'd cope to be able to play a really good game. Now I understand if you're inexperienced and have let viruses and spyware ravage your system and paid someone to get help. Fear of the unknown I understand. That's part of the reason [H] is here, to help you learn about computers.

But me, I'm an experienced pc enthusiast, I know the limits of different software and how it can affect windows. You emo's just need to chill, Irrational isn't out to get you.

Fact is, if you had nothing to hide, would you be this paranoid?
 
Nenu said:
It helps to note what people have said if you read a thread and post in it.

Many arent buying the game out of protest to get 2K to change their ways.
Others dont want horrible stuff installed on their PC.
Others dont want to have to use hacks to get a satisfactory solution, especially as many of the hacks arent legal.

I'm happy for you that you can remain blind to everyone elses issues,
After all, the only thing that matters is being a gamer, oh and the only person that matters is you.

I actually feel sorry for you lol.
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To me it's not even the main issue if the software is harmful..well, if it is harmful it's even worse. The fact that it installs in the background and it doesn't come off even after uninstalling the main application is what bothers me. Of course 2K will say it doesn't come off because it tracks your uninstalltion so you can get credit for another installation :rolleyes: From reading the 2K forums it seems this uninstallation tracking scheme doesn't even work properly. I haven't installed the game and won't, so maybe it does say some place in the EULA that it does install this shit. If so I would cancel the game installation, eject the DVD and throw the game over my right shoulder onto the floor.
 
damonposey said:
Fact is, if you had nothing to hide, would you be this paranoid?
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This old tired BS argument. Who's said this has anything to do with hiding something and being paranoid? It has nothing to do with that.... for me at least. You can activate it five times, i'm fine with that. I'm not fine with the software they install to enforce that. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I'm sure there's a way of enforcing this without installing a rootkit...or something similar to a rootkit.


Why are they hiding the securom in the game's installation? How come they don't disclose this on the box? Maybe they do..I don't know. Are they paranoid that it would turn people off and they won't make a sale?


But me, I'm an experienced pc enthusiast, I know the limits of different software and how it can affect windows.
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Like we're not...i'm far from a newb. I like to know what's being installed on my system, that's my point.
 
damonposey said:
It's an exaggeration obviously about 50 viruses that you obviously didn't comprehend. The point is, I know enough about computer software that I'd cope to be able to play a really good game. Now I understand if you're inexperienced and have let viruses and spyware ravage your system and paid someone to get help. Fear of the unknown I understand. That's part of the reason [H] is here, to help you learn about computers.

But me, I'm an experienced pc enthusiast, I know the limits of different software and how it can affect windows. You emo's just need to chill, Irrational isn't out to get you.

Fact is, if you had nothing to hide, would you be this paranoid?
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So you exaggerate but dont like it when we state genuine issues?
You assume a lot as well, considering you claim to be an experienced user, you should know better.
I wont tell you my experience, I'll just leave you to make it up like you would anyway.
Be careful of making an idiot of yourself though (damn, too late).

Fact is if you were able to consider any one elses point of view you wouldnt make stupid statements like "Fact is, if you had nothing to hide, would you be this paranoid?"
 
maxius said:
are you blind did you not see what i posted the drm infection it installs on your pc IS HARMFUL AND CONSIDERED MALWARE securerom installing a rootkit is the issue to hell with the activations you know root kit like what sony did but i would say this is far worse
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Yes I did actually, and to me thats just the icing on the cake. I will not support any company that think they need low level control of my computer to use software I paid for.

I think we can all agree rootkits should never be installed, and I took that as universal.

I was only speaking to the activation issues..
 
Nenu said:
So you exaggerate but dont like it when we state genuine issues?
You assume a lot as well, considering you claim to be an experienced user, you should know better.
I wont tell you my experience, I'll just leave you to make it up like you would anyway.
Be careful of making an idiot of yourself though (damn, too late).

Fact is if you were able to consider any one elses point of view you wouldnt make stupid statements like "Fact is, if you had nothing to hide, would you be this paranoid?"
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There are no genuine issues. It's all paranoia. No harm has been done to any computer as a result of this except any of the stupid things people will try and do to their PC as a result of the paranoia.

Again I ask, why be so concerned with a rootkit? What do you think is going to happen? Irrational will discover your kiddie porn collection and have the FBI come to your house?
 
damonposey said:
There are no genuine issues. It's all paranoia. No harm has been done to any computer as a result of this except any of the stupid things people will try and do to their PC as a result of the paranoia.

Again I ask, why be so concerned with a rootkit? What do you think is going to happen? Irrational will discover your kiddie porn collection and have the FBI come to your house?
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I've already explained to you that you havent read previous posts so you cant expect to know what we are concerned about.
Why keep asking when all you need to do is read.
I'm not your mama, do it for yourself.
 
1) 2K Games updated their support page on the 23rd: http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html so far it seems they are taking the complaints into consideration. This was pretty quick, other game companies either don't give a shit or take forever to do something about it.

2) I checked that registry key and sure enough in my HKEY_Current_User hive there is a SecureRom key that you can't read, delete, or change permissions on. This one has me fuming. I do not want anyone installing files or settings on my computer that I cannot get rid of. I'm too busy enjoying Bioshock to uninstall it right now but I did uninstall the demo last night and that key is still there so I'm not sure if the demo placed it there or if it was the retail install which was done through Steam.

Unless this is a feature of the registry API I have a feeling that this could cause problems. Someone familiar with the Windows Registry API would know better than I. I really hope that all this key does is store a hash or something so you can't duplicate it and copy the install information to another computer.

If this were a DVD install I would uninstall now to see if the key goes away but it's done through Steam so I'm not waiting again for this thing to download even if it's at 2.5MB a second (go fios!).

Any of you guys network analysts? Perhaps someone could verify whether or not this crap is calling home and sending info on a regular basis (Ethereal software?).

***What's with the "If you don't have anything to hide..." comments? Forget whether or not a person has something to hide, why are these practices ok?
 
Nenu said:
I've already explained to you that you havent read previous posts so you cant expect to know what we are concerned about.
Why keep asking when all you need to do is read.
I'm not your mama, do it for yourself.
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Keep dodging the question. A sure sign of defeat.
 
Right and wrong aside, I have to say one of the more frustrating elements is the stupidity of such a protection system.

Security through obscurity/obsurdity
brought to you by the makers of SecuROM.

Crappy corporate programming at its best.

damonposey said:
Keep dodging the question. A sure sign of defeat.
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If you have no secrets or anything to hide, then I pity you. You've lived a very dull life.
 
damonposey said:
Keep dodging the question. A sure sign of defeat.
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He's not dodging the question, he's telling you to do what you should do, read what people are posting and the reasons why they don't want a rootkit installed on their systems.

Go read up on rootkits or variants of a rootkit and you will see that they can cause a myriad of potential security problems. There's a reason why MS came down on Sony a few years ago over their rootkit technology used in music CDs. There's a reason why Microsoft's own malicious software removal tool scans for that very same rootkit and removes it. They don't want their OS fucked with and more potential security weaknesses. Send a e-mail to Microsoft and ask them why they were so "paranoid" and went to those lengths to get it off their OS.

The other issue, for the 15th time, is many people don't want software installed on their system without them knowing it...or in the case of rootkits/malware or variants of they don't want it installed at all..knowingly or not. Again MS didn't like this idea either a few years ago.

You should know all this since you're a "an experienced pc enthusiast". But you'll keep posting completely irrelevant comments i'm sure.
 
A lot of people dont want this sort of thing on their computer, it's gotten to the point where we need STRICT guidelines as to what applications do with anti-piracy code.

1) It should be clearly labled on the box what they're using with a url or something so we can check out the terms and conditions before we buy the game, rather than afterwards when its in a non-refundable state.

2) We should be warned when installing what is about to be installed and should be allowed to chose yes/no to either carry on or end the installation.

3) Anti-piracy coders or the developers who intergrate such code with their software need to be held accountable if that code is used to breach security on a PC. For example, if someone writes a virus to abuse security holes in SecureROM then they need to be held accountable.
 
CoW]8(0);1031366818 said:
If you have no secrets or anything to hide, then I pity you. You've lived a very dull life.
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I have plenty of private files. But I'm not idiotic enough to keep them on a storage device that can be accessed through the internet. I mean, who would be that stupid? Oh wait. *Looks at the names of the whiners posting in this thread*.
 
http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/pc_faq.html

Does SecuROM install a root kit on my computer?
No. SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering with these files may result in authentication issues.


What is a root kit?
A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system and which can open ports to allow remote access to the system.

A "rootkit" makes it possible for viruses or other malicious programs ("malware") to hide content on a user's PC. In this way, a virus or other malware may remain undetected, even if updated anti-virus software is installed.

SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. SecuROM Product Activation does place a folder and registry keys on your system. These folders are used only for storage of license information and information to assist with disc authentication. Please do not modify or delete these files. Tampering these files may result in authentication issues.
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"What is a root kit?
A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system...."



And what does SecuROM do again? Try running Bioshock with Process Explorer open.

That they do not see the irony in their own definition of a rootkit is laughable.
 
oh but cow you're right, you live such an exciting and dangerous life! why don't you put your ss# and credit card #s in your sig for safekeeping!
 
Opie said:
"What is a root kit?
A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system...."



And what does SecuROM do again? Try running Bioshock with Process Explorer open.

That they do not see the irony in their own definition of a rootkit is laughable.
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No part of SecuROM is hidden from the system (the classical definition of a rootkit). just because the game won't run with ProcessExplorer running, doesn't make it a rootkit, just makes it a pig

please do not spread FUD! Yes SecuROM is baad, and how it digs into yr system is equally bad, but it is visible by everything
 
eeyrjmr said:
No part of SecuROM is hidden from the system (the classical definition of a rootkit). just because the game won't run with ProcessExplorer running, doesn't make it a rootkit, just makes it a pig

please do not spread FUD! Yes SecuROM is baad, and how it digs into yr system is equally bad, but it is visible by everything
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It's completely hidden unless you actively look for it and as such I believe the FUD is absolutely warranted in this case. I think the game is brilliant and happily accept the online activation, but I cannot abide a stealth install of some Sony-underwritten DRM scheme that not only hides itself, but is impossible to remove without third party tools.
 
sgt said:
Wow damonposey, how does 2kgames cum taste?
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Bioshocking I suppose! :rolleyes:


Seeing threads like this and people acting like "it's alright, I've got nothing to hide" gives me chills. This reminds me of movies like George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four or even the recent V for Vendetta, although an exaggeration of this case, the similarities are there.

What people fail to realize is that installing unwanted software on your computer, be it harmful or not, is plain wrong, and remaining on your system without a easy way to remove it is even worst. If your fine with it, thats your problem, not mine. I do care about my freedom of choice about what gets into my system, specially if it's paid software. This kind of attitude brings nothing but more piracy of their software. Remember Galactic Civilization 2? That game sold like hot cakes not only because it was good, but because people supported their move to dump these copy protection nonsense. Face it, every single one copy protection gets cracked. Like crackers say, anything running on a machine can be cracked.

Almost a year ago when NWN2 came out I faced the same thing you people are facing now, since that game uses the same version of securom and install all this unwanted crap into your system, not to mention that the game is a rushed piece of shit, where they stripped all good thing from the 1st game and added nothing but annoyances into it. But this isn't about NWN2 anyway.

Btw, I don't have Bioshock and never planned on getting it. Now I sure won't.
 
sgt said:
Wow damonposey, how does 2kgames cum taste?
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TheNuker said:
Bioshocking I suppose! :rolleyes:
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Nice ones!

Now I just picked up the game finally at gamestop and its installing. I'm not rooting for rootkits here, I'd rather not have this rootkit install with the game. But the fact is, nothing bad is going to happen to my computer. I'm going to enjoy this great game and that'll be that. Have fun being a worrier and enjoy the wrinkles on your forehead and the ulcers in your stomach that will develop!
 
damonposey said:
I have plenty of private files. But I'm not idiotic enough to keep them on a storage device that can be accessed through the internet. I mean, who would be that stupid? Oh wait. *Looks at the names of the whiners posting in this thread*.
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What the fuck are you talking about? You're having a conversation with yourself.
 
Originally Posted by sgt View Post
Wow damonposey, how does 2kgames cum taste?
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Originally Posted by TheNuker View Post
Bioshocking I suppose!
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Nice ones!

Now I just picked up the game finally at gamestop and its installing. I'm not rooting for rootkits here, I'd rather not have this rootkit install with the game. But the fact is, nothing bad is going to happen to my computer. I'm going to enjoy this great game and that'll be that. Have fun being a worrier and enjoy the wrinkles on your forehead and the ulcers in your stomach that will develop!
Reply With Quote
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lol

I was pissed when I found out about this (and I still am) although I have almost absolutely no fear of my computer being messed up by securom. Hell, I was planning on buying the 360 version. I think a lot of people, like me, are irritated more by the principle of what securerom is about and does than anything.

I highly doubt anyone planning on obtaining a game illegally (by downloading or copying from a friend) changes their mind upon realizing that the game is "secured" and then decides to buy the game instead. If someone is not going to pay for a game, they are not going to pay for the game regardless of how it is protected... Then again maybe I'm just naive and there are a lot of cheap bastards out there.:p
 
Uh...I guess if you feel that any of the stuff here is accurate at all. Frankly, I feel a little dumber for having looked at it, but your mileage may vary.
 
2K has a statement up about BioShock's DRM. According to them, SecuROM isn't an actual rootkit, it's just hiding some registry keys on your system. Gaming Bob, who originated this story, has also retracted his analysis of the DRM as being a rootkit, and posted up some easier instructions for removing the SecuROM service, so it looks like it's indeed safe to come out and play.
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:eek:

Now all STFU.
 
Sounds like a bunch of BS to me. I think I'll be better off with the X360 version. At least I won't be limited to 5 "installs" before having to call and deal with customer services.... What is this fucking world coming to.

I still have my origonal StarCraft CD's.... and I think I have un-installed/re-installed the game 100 times over the last 9 years.... Thank god I didn't have to call and deal with Blizzard each time... fuck a bunch of that.
 
Frosteh said:
3) Anti-piracy coders or the developers who intergrate such code with their software need to be held accountable if that code is used to breach security on a PC. For example, if someone writes a virus to abuse security holes in SecureROM then they need to be held accountable.
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Although I do support the ban of starforce (not 100% paranoid over it like many though) I'm still waiting for that security exploit everyone kept screaming about starforce.
 
Netrat33 said:
Although I do support the ban of starforce (not 100% paranoid over it like many though) I'm still waiting for that security exploit everyone kept screaming about starforce.
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..and for someone to take them up on the 10,000 dollar reward for demonstrating how Starforce breaks optical drives.
 
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