Hardware sites to do expose on X-Fi failures?

There are obviously masses of people having issues with all version of Creative Labs newest X-Fi sound cards. This can be seen on their site, gaming sites, and other sound sites/hardware sites.

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board?board.id=soundblaster

I'm wondering why no hardware site is doing any kind of expose' on the issues. Creative is now selling so-called gaming sound cards for the highest prices ever, and ironically it's having more problems than ever. Creative is RAM'ing boards out, but many of them don't fix the issues and what's being "fixed" (outside of plopping on a heatsink) appears to be somewhat secret (seems to be more than just a firmware update).

I have an X-Fi sitting next to me still in its box (Xtrememusic edition) as I'm afraid to open it and start this cycle of problems. Granted the crackling/popping/screeching/hissing issues are not "just" an X-Fi problem, but a continuing on many of us had with the Audigy 2 as well. I think the question should be asked, "what's going on"?

I'd really like to see HardOCP tackle this to put some added pressure on Creative Labs to fix the problem. Seeing how these issues are comparatively rarely evident in other sound cards - the "pro's" should have been working to make sure these issues were finally resolved when they started producing this new chipset.

Huh, I've had the x-fi for 5 months or so and have not had ANY issues with it. It's the best creative card I've owned.

I think all new hardware has issues when they are released. Not just Creatives. Just how the industry goes I guess.

kaluminati said:

Huh, I've had the x-fi for 5 months or so and have not had ANY issues with it. It's the best creative card I've owned.

I think all new hardware has issues when they are released. Not just Creatives. Just how the industry goes I guess.

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Its the same problem creative cards have had for over 5 years now. EVERY card since the SB live has had this problem, and they cant be bothered to fix it. They keep claiming its either VIA's or someone elses fault.

jpinard said:

I have an X-Fi sitting next to me still in its box (Xtrememusic edition) as I'm afraid to open it and start this cycle of problems. Granted the crackling/popping/screeching/hissing issues are not "just" an X-Fi problem, but a continuing on many of us had with the Audigy 2 as well. I think the question should be asked, "what's going on"?.

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so you're complaining about a problem you've never experienced yourself? good call. Had mine since the first day best buy got them in here in ohio and have never had a problem with it at all.

Yeah, you bought a component and are afraid to open it? WTF

Thats like buying a car and then not driving it because people have accidents, I mean chirst man this isn't Wussforum.com.

corrosive23 said:

Its the same problem creative cards have had for over 5 years now. EVERY card since the SB live has had this problem, and they cant be bothered to fix it. They keep claiming its either VIA's or someone elses fault.

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Go back to the PCI128 series, and your quote's right. My PCI128 (intel/ali/via chaipsets), Live!5.1 (via, nvidia chipset), and Audigy2ZS (nvidia chipsets nf2/nf4)have all had this issue.

I'm not sure if it's true, but I heard something to teh effect of it having to do with the card hogging all the PCI bandwidth for itself.

Compounded by the fact that most people don't know how to fix the problem. They plop the card in, it makes a squeak, and all they do is whine. Try learning how to tweak a PC instead.

I own an extreemusic, and have had no "real" problems with it. When I boot up some games it might make a POP sound for about 1/2 second and its not TOO loud. But thats it...

What problems are people having?

Chastity said:

Compounded by the fact that most people don't know how to fix the problem. They plop the card in, it makes a squeak, and all they do is whine. Try learning how to tweak a PC instead.

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so instead of creative fixing the problem they have had for over 4 generations of cards, we should stfu and learn how to deal with it?

No problems here.

I really wish I had another choice besides Creative, but there really isn't for gaming. I have been relatively happy with my XtremeMusic, but holding firmware updates that may or may not improve aspects of the card and keeping many problems under wraps from the public is bullshit. I would like my card to have the latest firmware without having to send it to Creative, I can update firmware for every other piece of hardware in my system that uses it.

No problems here either.

Turn on the 24-bit Crystalizer, start up Battlefield 2, then listen to something like the artillery hitting up close. The sound crackles like hell if you actually pay attention. This happens with 2 different X-Fi cards I own.(xtreme music & fatal1ty) I've owned a SB 16 ISA & PCI, SB Live! original, SB Live! Platinum, Audigy 1,2, & 2 ZS. This is the first time I've ever had this issue and its specific to the X-Fi cards.

I had the static problem with the X-Fi XtremeMusic whenever it played sounds and accessed my SCSI hard drive at the same time.

Most of the people having this issue also have PCI I/O or disk controllers (i.e. SCSI or RAID cards).

Once I discovered so many others having the same problem and nobody having a easy fix, I just took it back to BestBuy and will just wait until it is resolved or something better comes along. I only bought it for the improved OpenAL support for Quake4... which really didn't seem much better than my Audigy 1 anyways (still lagged with heavy action or hyperblaster).

I would take it back, and wait for the next revision. Then again, if you don't have a PCI disk controller, I don't know what other issues you might face.

I like your idea of having somebody look into it. Maybe Maximum PC's "the dog" section (I think thats what it is called) could dig in.

I haven had a problem with my X-Fi Xtreme Music so far ran fine through all of cod2 with the setting cranked if you want to see lag go to integrated sound and let your CPU process the sound.

No issues here . And i have 4 friends with x-fi and they dont have issues either.

Add me to the list of people with no problems. And if the crystalizer causes problems in a game, turn it off... easy?

The crackling is still present in games like BF2 and DoD:S with the crystalizer off. The crystalizer just magnifies the issue.

This is happening with two different PCs of mine(one VIA chipset, and the other on two diff NF4 boards) with 2 different X-Fi cards. If you can't hear popping/crackling in those two games then you just aren't listening for it.

Bop said:

The crackling is still present in games like BF2 and DoD:S with the crystalizer off. The crystalizer just magnifies the issue.

This is happening with two different PCs of mine(one VIA chipset, and the other on two diff NF4 boards) with 2 different X-Fi cards. If you can't hear popping/crackling in those two games then you just aren't listening for it.

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Do you have any PCI I/O controller cards? (or maybe your integrated controllers use the PCI bus?)

This is so reminiscent of all the issues the Audigy had through its growing stages till it got to the Audigy 2 ZS, which with the latest drivers are perfect. I would have thought by now Creative would have got it right, especially after boasting such technological advancements of the X-Fi over its predecessors.

I can almost guarantee you its a driver issue. Fat chance Creative will fix it right away, Creative is the only sound card I've ever used, and you can pretty much expect that they'll fix it within half a year to a year.

Trust me, they never fix their issues...

They just keep putting out more cards.

The day I get a decent outboard DAC, I am kissing this card goodbye, and picking up something with a clean coax digital out, that will work fine on games....but I'm still about $800 from affording the DAC I want...so for now I'll use my freak soundbalster.


edit: note that I do have the audigy2zs, and the latest drivers, and still have the noises. The drivers may have fixed it for some, but it didn't do squat for me.

jpinard said:

There are obviously masses of people having issues with all version of Creative Labs newest X-Fi sound cards. This can be seen on their site, gaming sites, and other sound sites/hardware sites.

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board?board.id=soundblaster
.

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Lets put this in perspective: I used to work on Dodge transmissions for Dodge. I rebuilt hundreds or even thousands of dead transmissions. This doesn't change the fact I saw no articles on how Dodge is making defective transmissions.

The truth is I was in the one place you would see almost every bad tranny that came in...so to the casual observer it could appear that Dodge tranny's were all junk but taken in context to just how many of the cars that were produced, an acceptably low percentage were defective. No worse than GM or Ford (probably much better than Ford).

So...just because you are looking at the one place everyone with a problem will be complaining at does not mean every card has a problem.

I am sure if anyone repeatedly experiences the same problem, on multiple machines, with multiple cards, while others do not (me included) then there is a good chance THAT PERSON just might be doing something to operating systems THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM.

...and they more than likely repeat this same problem on every machine they mess with, and unknowingly cause the same problems just to verify the problem exists.


I would start by looking into codecs or other software these people have been installing.

BBA said:

I am sure if anyone repeatedly experiences the same problem, on multiple machines, with multiple cards, while others do not (me included) then there is a good chance THAT PERSON just might be doing something to operating systems THAT CAUSES THE PROBLEM.

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Well, I don't think your analogy completely gets Creative off the hook. I see what you are saying, but there is a real problem with these cards.

In my situation, and some others that I know, it is ONLY the X-Fi card causing the static problem AND it only happens while accessing a hard drive with a PCI controller at the same time as playing sounds/music. This is not a codec issue, but I suspect hardware (maybe I should have tried Linux to further rule out software/OS)

HERE is my problem to a T. 13 pages of people with similar problem, most all have a SCSI or other PCI I/O controller.

I'll set up BF2 on my rig and see if I can recreate this error, or not.

Chastity said:

I'll set up BF2 on my rig and see if I can recreate this error, or not.

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What error are you trying to recreate?

If you want to test for the static, try defragmenting your drive and listening to mp3's at the same time.

i have bf2 and have never heard this problem. is it specific to only people with raid/scsi cards? with my ide drives i've transfered 10+ gigs plus between drives while playing mp3s and not heard it.

I stopped using Creatives products a while ago. Overpriced junk with crappy drivers.
On-board sound is good enough for me. I guess I am [L]imp, heh

pain.angel said:

is it specific to only people with raid/scsi cards? with my ide drives .

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I believe the static problem is, so its no surprise not everybody has that issue...

but there could be more problems/issues that I haven't dealt with

Open the damn thing up and see. If it's fine, don't worry about it. If not, you can either tinker or return it.

No biggie.

I've got one and really like it, no problems whatsoever.

Hornswoggler said:

Well, I don't think your analogy completely gets Creative off the hook. I see what you are saying, but there is a real problem with these cards.

In my situation, and some others that I know, it is ONLY the X-Fi card causing the static problem AND it only happens while accessing a hard drive with a PCI controller at the same time as playing sounds/music. This is not a codec issue, but I suspect hardware (maybe I should have tried Linux to further rule out software/OS)

HERE is my problem to a T. 13 pages of people with similar problem, most all have a SCSI or other PCI I/O controller.

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Don't you have it the other way round? The Xi-Fi's static problem is caused by the SCSI/PCI I/O controller not relinquishing access to the PCI bus in a timely manner.

I notice the static problem with my 2zs when accessing my SATA drives that are on my sil3114 onboard SATA/RAID controller. It doesn't occur when accessing my raptor which is connected to the nVidia integrated SATA. From my understanding it is indeed a PCI bandwidth problem. I haven't found it to be enough of an issue to ditch my 2zs for gaming, however.

The few complain loudly on forums.. while the masses enjoy quietly

No probs here, we got us some good ol fashioned creative hateboys here! M$ is teh sux 2!!!111

There's an issue and that's undeniable. Sure, the vast majority of people have no problem, but enough people have problems that some blame obviously lies on Creative. They are designing cards for the average computer, not some perfectly tweaked top end system, and they are marketing to the average consumer too. If the X-Fi were some absolute top end highly technical card then I would agree that the onus lies upon the user to work out the issues, but it's not.

It's a card designed for the average consumer who will probably have some stuff slightly wrong with his computer. Creative should have designed the card with this in mind and they obviously didn't, end of story.

It's as if an engineer designed a bridge which was blown over by a strong gust of wind killing thousands of people who claims: "Not my fault, the wind blew it over!" It's called engineering tolerance...


^Tacoma Narrows Bridge, designed by Creative engineers?

Alright, let me ask this:

Does ANYBODY with a X-Fi card and a PCI SCSI or RAID card NOT have a problem with the static?

Having a SCSI card (Adaptec 29160) installed should NOT be considered a flaw in my system.

Is it my fault because I want a 15k rpm hard drive? (which I bought before Raptors were on the market) Is it too much to expect a sound card and a SCSI card to both work in harmony? If this problem affects MANY different SCSI and RAID PCI cards and ONLY with X-Fi, does the problem really lie with one specific SCSI controller card?

Have some of you armchair experts actually taken the time to read about the problem before spouting off comments that there are flaws with everybody's system?

mdameron said:

The few complain loudly on forums.. while the masses enjoy quietly

No probs here, we got us some good ol fashioned creative hateboys here! M$ is teh sux 2!!!111

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But its one of those things, 1 day it will come around and you'll be in the minority of those having problems..

i don't know why but its always been a pet-peve of mine when someone has a problem and there are those that come on and just say..

"Works for me" as that is a valid arguement as to why the person is having a problem and that they must just be an idiot for having a problem. Its almost like some people are upset that someone has a problem, it boggles the mind the way some people act..

To the OP, personally its not worth it to deal with static or lower quality on a card you payed that much for.

Where did you purchase the card from? if they have an openbox return policy just try the card and if you get the static then return the card. If they don't have an openbox return policy don't open it and just return it, then go buy it from someone with a return policy. The amount of money you spent on the card is not worth having to live with something you don't like.

If you are looking for an alternative you may want to try an M-Audio Revolution, you really aren't losing out on much with EAX3/4/5 in gaming and you'll only take a marginal FPS hit.. I personally enjoy my HDA-Mystique in my HTPC for sound quality over my Audigy2 in my gaming machine (when playing the same game on both)..

I found the fix for the Cracking/Poping sounds on my Creative X-fi ExtremeMusic card. For your info I have a Adaptec SCSI Card, and two 15k SCSI drives on my NF4 system. When I would copy large amounts of data to my Server, I would hear Poping and Crackling during MP3 music Playback. Also, when I booted my system, I would hear some high pitched Poping sounds. You can read some more info about it here...

1st, If you are using the Asus A8N SLI Deluxe mobo, flash to bios 1015.

2nd, There are many posts on the Creative labs forums of people sending their cards in to fix these problems, and the cards come back with just a heatsink on the chip (not sure if there was a firmware update either). So you might want to put a spare heatskink on your X-FI.

3rd, Switch the X-fi card to a different PCI slot, this sometimes helps out with certain PCI cards hogging the system bus.

4th, Be sure you have the latest drivers (should be 2.07.004) for the X-fi, I got mine straight from creative

5th, Increase the PCI latency of the card from 32 to 64 by using the PCI Latency Tool.

6th, In Audio Creation Mode "enable bit-match playback" mode. this will disable some other fancy features of the card, but at least it will stop the crackling sound.

7th, If you have an X-fi with the 5.25' bay panel, replace the crapy Creative supplied cable that connects to the X-fi with a shielded (read almost any) IDE cable. You may find all your static problems go away.


Since I have the XtremeMusic, here is what I did to solve my problem...

- I tried the PCI Latency tool, and set it to 64 (was 32), this seems to have caused my system to reboot very slowly (almost like the system crashed when I went to shut it down). I have read that some people set it to 128 and this fixes that issue, but I didn't want to try that.

- Next Since I have an Abit AN8 SLI mobo, I only have two PCI slots, so I just left the card in the top slot.

- Finally, I updated the drivers (was originally 2.07.003) to the newer version 2.07.004, and this fixed my problem.

Another problem that I found was that none of my settings (5.1 speakers, turing on 24bit Crystalizer, etc) were being saved when I rebooted my machine. Well someone over on the creative forums found out that there was a X-Fi program that would start up with windows that was causing this issue. You can read about it here , but I will just post what you need to do.

1. Got to Start\Run and type MSCONFIG and hit enter.
2. Click on the Startup tab and scroll down and find CTXFIHLP.EXE
3. Disable CTXFIHLP.EXE

This fixed the issue, now all my settings stick when I reboot...

Hope this helps anyone who is having a problem. At least you wont have to read the 1000's of threads on Creative's website to get the few nuggets of info I have posted.

I've been testing my two PCs frequently and I'm beginning to think that this is really just a software/driver issue.

In Battlefield 2 it is the case of the software, I ran my onboard realtek '97 on my ASUS A8N32 and the sound still crackles like hell in Battlefield 2. Same with Day of Defeat, which is strange seeing how CS:S sounds awesome. Games like Quake 4 and my MP3s don't have any popping/crackling in them, even with the crystalizer @ 100%. The games that do have audio distortion just get amplified with the crystalizer so I guess thats why it makes it sound worse.So it looks like MY problems with the card are related to the drivers/software.

There ARE two hardware causes of crackling however that many witness.

1.ANY device that uses the PCI bus like a SCSI controller(also includes onboard devices that use the PCI bus like a NIC)
2.The IDE drive bay ribbon cable picks up interference(glad I don't use mine)

This thread is of no use, as there is only one company left building "real" soundcards with an integrated DSP to speed up audio processing, namely CreativeLabs.

Aureal is gone (I still have a few Vortex I & II boards in storage) and NVidia abandoned its Soundstorm onboard-audio. Intels recent audio initiative offers no hardware acceleration (surprise, they sell CPUs).

A gamer has to use a X-Fi or Audigy, unless he wants to waste likely more than 5% of his CPU-power on audio-processing.

There is no alternative. CL has a monopoly. They do not care.

2nd, There are many posts on the Creative labs forums of people sending their cards in to fix these problems, and the cards come back with just a heatsink on the chip (not sure if there was a firmware update either). So you might want to put a spare heatskink on your X-FI.

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The fix is for the cards with 2 megs of memory, the Music and Plat versions, and the actual fix is a newer firmware. The addition of heatsink is just a coincident. I think I remember reading the reason they added heatsink is that with newer process they are using to make xfi chips the chips run a bit warmer now. I could be wrong on that tho, hehe

Hornswoggler said:

Well, I don't think your analogy completely gets Creative off the hook. I see what you are saying, but there is a real problem with these cards.

In my situation, and some others that I know, it is ONLY the X-Fi card causing the static problem AND it only happens while accessing a hard drive with a PCI controller at the same time as playing sounds/music. This is not a codec issue, but I suspect hardware (maybe I should have tried Linux to further rule out software/OS)

HERE is my problem to a T. 13 pages of people with similar problem, most all have a SCSI or other PCI I/O controller.

Click to expand...

In other words, two or more heavy-bandwidth-using devices are having coexistence issues. It *is* a hardware issue, but it isn't Creative's fault. This particular issue tends to occur when the controller hub for the PCI bus gets saturated by traffic and starts throttling down. Also, notice that the issue primarily (if not exclusively) affects non-Intel chipsets (especially nForce; however, VIA chipsets are also victims). I have the ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe, and have had two different ZS cards, and *neither* has had that issue. Could it be that the Intel 875P AGPset doesn't bog down under heavy bandwidth, *despite* having onboard gigabit Ethernet (Intel PRO/1000CT built right onto the northbridge) and onboard SATA (built onto the ICH5SR southbridge) *both* in use at once? I have noticed that few motherboards with Intel chipsets are having the issue.