Anthropic takes steps to block Claude from reverse-engineering video games

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kac77

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It won't be just video game code. There's the guy who lost his OpenAI license for reverse-engineering what signals were leaving his TV as well. I suspect they're trying to mitigate the potential lawsuits if people use their models to basically copy all the functionality. Even if they don't lose the lawsuits, it doesn't look good on them. And with the deep pockets of some of the players that might be involved it could cost them a lot even if they win. The other side is that there's no guarantee that their AI didn't do some hinky shit to get their hands on the code either. These AI models have shown time and time again that they're willing to hack their way to get information people ask for so it could be possible they're concerned that their model would literally hack a game company's server to "reverse engineer" the game.
 
I guess... I mean, the smaller developers on Steam are pulling their demos left and right because they are being ransomed: "Give us $50K, or we have a clone of your game up for 1/2 its price by the end of the week," sort of stuff
Then there is the much more applauded use of it for reverse-engineering the Sony operating systems and Adobe platforms.
Though it probably puts the Windows 7 projects in jeopardy :(
 
Trying to put the genie back in the bottle now... haha good luck.

Having said that. Code is not exactly the biggest compute crunching use for AI. Aider, opencode. It isn't that insane to just run Qwen or deepseek local.

Its only going to get worse for game companies. I get Anthropic not wanting to get sued for selling the compute doing these things. Realistically their are plenty of people doing this that can load up a 70g deep seek model and do much the same. The models are only going to improve as well. Claude might be 6 months better? I don't know they aren't that far ahead.
 
ChadD said:
Trying to put the genie back in the bottle now... haha good luck.

Having said that. Code is not exactly the biggest compute crunching use for AI. Aider, opencode. It isn't that insane to just run Qwen or deepseek local.

Its only going to get worse for game companies. I get Anthropic not wanting to get sued for selling the compute doing these things. Realistically their are plenty of people doing this that can load up a 70g deep seek model and do much the same. The models are only going to improve as well. Claude might be 6 months better? I don't know they aren't that far ahead.
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Yeah, I don't think you're going to stop it, but companies are going to try to insulate themselves from lawsuits.
 
that ability to ship binary instead of code is the only known way to sell application to people without having to force them to use the cloud, service fees and so on.

The biggest customer of Anthropic right now is pretty much people making application, if you loose the ability to sell your software, you loose your ability to pay your claude bills....

I doubt this will be a only for video game attempts, probably a bit more of a software in general coming up.
 
Lakados said:
Because if somebody were to, in theory, be working on a complete reverse engineering of Windows, to later be released as an open source software, would you be more interested in 7, 10, or 11...
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Clearly 11, or better yet, 11 without all the AI, the ads, and a whole list of other frustrations. Too many to list here.

Of course, such a project would need lots of "sombody" people working as a team, maybe like the Linux foundation as a model. OK, who wants to volunteer to be the Linus Torvalds of open source Windows?
 
ah so claude was so powerful that it was going to end humanity and there was nothing they could do... piss off adobe and nintendo and now suddenly the problem is fixed overnight?

oh well, my local AI is still happily helping me with my reverse engineering projects :D
 
FLECOM said:
ah so claude was so powerful that it was going to end humanity and there was nothing they could do... piss off adobe and nintendo and now suddenly the problem is fixed overnight?

oh well, my local AI is still happily helping me with my reverse engineering projects :D
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That is exactly why they won't let us have new PC gear that runs this stuff well. It's all about control of information and what we are allowed to do and not do
 
Lakados said:
Because if somebody were to, in theory, be working on a complete reverse engineering of Windows, to later be released as an open source software, would you be more interested in 7, 10, or 11...
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As said, 11 would be ideal. Cause then you can remove all the bloatware while keeping all the improvements, while also having free reign to change the UI however you want. I suppose you can theoretically port 11's improvements back into 7 but that seems like more work.
 
You're better off just having AI port or reverse engineer the Windows applications you're missing and put them into the Linux environment. The last excuse I saw that most people had was tHeRes nO pHotOsHoP, but we've had the whole Adobe Creative Suite duplicated via ArtCraft now and it works 99.9% identical.. about all that's missing from Linux now is a few crappy games with kernel spyware. Wanting to actually use a Microsoft product these days is just shooting yourself in the foot when each successive product will be worse than the last. Microsoft is dying anyway, looking to layoff a quarter of their global workforce. We already have open source operating systems that work far better and you don't have to backport code from OS to OS to make it useable.
 
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Tsumi said:
As said, 11 would be ideal. Cause then you can remove all the bloatware while keeping all the improvements, while also having free reign to change the UI however you want. I suppose you can theoretically port 11's improvements back into 7 but that seems like more work.
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Sure but why would I want to?
 
w1retap said:
You're better off just having AI port or reverse engineer the Windows applications you're missing and put them into the Linux environment. The last excuse I saw that most people had was tHeRes nO pHotOsHoP, but we've had the whole Adobe Creative Suite duplicated via ArtCraft now and it works 99.9% identical.. about all that's missing from Linux now is a few crappy games with kernel spyware. Wanting to actually use a Microsoft product these days is just shooting yourself in the foot when each successive product will be worse than the last. Microsoft is dying anyway, looking to layoff a quarter of their global workforce. We already have open source operating systems that work far better and you don't have to backport code from OS to OS to make it useable.
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I am hugely skeptical that ArtCraft can duplicate all the recent AI-based enhancements that have been incorporated into recent releases of Lightroom Classic. And for a lousy $10/month I don't have to worry about that constantly.

I also expect that Adobe's lawyers, and they can afford the best, are working away at a lawsuit that could seriously impact ArtCract.
 
w1retap said:
You're better off just having AI port or reverse engineer the Windows applications you're missing and put them into the Linux environment. The last excuse I saw that most people had was tHeRes nO pHotOsHoP, but we've had the whole Adobe Creative Suite duplicated via ArtCraft now and it works 99.9% identical..
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Considering the complexity of Photoshop, along with the extensive third-party plug-in ecosystem, that would imply a huge amount of testing. And I have serious doubts that AI-based testing can judge artistic quality of reverse-engineered code. Photoshop has a steep learning curve because there is so much functionality there, and there are often multiple ways to achieve a given edit. So for Photoshop and Lightroom, my "color palette" is deep-skeptical
 
philb2 said:
Considering the complexity of Photoshop, along with the extensive third-party plug-in ecosystem, that would imply a huge amount of testing. And I have serious doubts that AI-based testing can judge artistic quality of reverse-engineered code. Photoshop has a steep learning curve because there is so much functionality there, and there are often multiple ways to achieve a given edit. So for Photoshop and Lightroom, my "color palette" is deep-skeptical
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I believe ArtCraft stated it had 95% of the UI, not 95% of the functionality.

As far as functionality, they haven't updated their feature breadth score since Oct 10, but it's still getting dozens of updates a day and has submitted 2500+ bugs/issues.

If it got serious in terms of competition, yeah, Adobe is going to sue. Because while copyright is debatable, patents aren't, and Adobe owns thousands of patents on their products.
 
Hey, we'll use every piece of coding knowledge on the entire internet both private and public without consent in order to make a product that bypasses huge labour costs and makes entire industries redundant.

"cool, we'll do the same thing and make the results free"

HOW FUCKING DARE YOU THAT'S VOPYRIFHT AND PATENT AND TRADEMARK AND
 
philb2 said:
I am hugely skeptical that ArtCraft can duplicate all the recent AI-based enhancements that have been incorporated into recent releases of Lightroom Classic. And for a lousy $10/month I don't have to worry about that constantly.

I also expect that Adobe's lawyers, and they can afford the best, are working away at a lawsuit that could seriously impact ArtCract.
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Go ahead and give it a try. But myself, I'd rather not pay another subscription with a EULA that entails giving Adobe access to my work.
 
philb2 said:
I am hugely skeptical that ArtCraft can duplicate all the recent AI-based enhancements that have been incorporated into recent releases of Lightroom Classic. And for a lousy $10/month I don't have to worry about that constantly.

I also expect that Adobe's lawyers, and they can afford the best, are working away at a lawsuit that could seriously impact ArtCract.
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Good luck suing clean room back engineers. There is a reason antropic dont want it. Suing tool makers is easier.
Once its out there its out there.
Artcrafts projects arw already superior in many ways. First was replication of tools and look. Now ita adding features and improving. They have full crossnplatdorm up. And the suite is now pipped for full local agent operation. You gor a mac mini agent setup... Give it access to your artcraft software use it as a proper trained assistent. Batch edit for real.
 
I don't think the naysayers have tried it. I used Adobe products since 2001 both personally and professionally and ArtCraft has already solved all my annoyances, and it is faster in every way for my workflow. The end results look the same. They're also being updated almost daily. Adobe is in trouble if more professionals try it. Right now they're in damage control mode trying to get every blogger they can to write negative/false reviews on it.
 
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KazeoHin said:
Hey, we'll use every piece of coding knowledge on the entire internet both private and public without consent in order to make a product that bypasses huge labour costs and makes entire industries redundant.

"cool, we'll do the same thing and make the results free"

HOW FUCKING DARE YOU THAT'S VOPYRIFHT AND PATENT AND TRADEMARK AND
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The irony is fantastic. They never asked permission before raping code from all sources. Antrhopic has fought court cases over it. Blow it all up. Make the entire world open source if need be.
 
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w1retap said:
I don't think the naysayers have tried it. I used Adobe products since 2001 both personally and professionally and ArtCraft has already solved all my annoyances, and it is faster in every way for my workflow. The end results look the same. They're also being updated almost daily. Adobe is in trouble if more professionals try it. Right now they're in damage control mode trying to get every blogger they can to write negative/false reviews on it.
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It is crazy how its already adobe +1. Now that a version of the code is in the wild. Improvements commence. 100% rust, it will crash less, fully cross platform, plumbed for local AI properly. Yes claude and other AI got the ball rolling at this point it has almost 500 code contributors. Its humans polishing the turd that was the adobe product. Photoshop was solid and usable and Adobe themselves have been shitting it up for a long time now. Cleaning it up and making it reliable while not having Adobe scraping our drives to train art AIs makes artcrafts option >.
 
ChadD said:
The irony is fantastic. They never asked permission before raping code from all sources. Antrhopic has fought court cases over it. Blow it all up. Make the entire world open source if need be.
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That was my hope with the boom. Seems to be tilting that way, in a sense, regardless of permission and it's so fast there's little to do about it.
 
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I predicted this would happen, just not so quickly and so intensely. Anthropic can do whatever they want, but Pandora's Box is open and nobody is closing it.
 
FLECOM said:
ah so claude was so powerful that it was going to end humanity and there was nothing they could do... piss off adobe and nintendo and now suddenly the problem is fixed overnight?

oh well, my local AI is still happily helping me with my reverse engineering projects :D
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They didn’t care about any of them.

It was Valve!

Indi developers kept getting their demo’s ransomed with AI generated clones.
 
DukenukemX said:
I predicted this would happen, just not so quickly and so intensely. Anthropic can do whatever they want, but Pandora's Box is open and nobody is closing it.
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An entire generation of annoyed coders, many of which are out of work; others that get to go to work to tell the AI what it is supposed to be doing that day.

The human base is quite motivated to burn it all down to the ground. How to do that? Well you can't really do much about the big massive corporation having the ear of the software companies telling them how easy it will be to downsize. However you can take the ultimate output of that labour, back track its development with the same tools they wish to replace you with and release open source versions of everything. You want AI coding. OK we'll show you AI coding. lol
 
w1retap said:
Go ahead and give it a try. But myself, I'd rather not pay another subscription with a EULA that entails giving Adobe access to my work.
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If you use Lightroom Classic and Photoshop (or Photoshop Elements) on your desktop, and don't use Firefly credits, etc., then Adobe never sees any of your work. Of course, if you post your photos to Flickr, then sure, Adobe might look at your work.
 
So I have to ask. Why all this hating on Adobe? For lots of people, their products are genuinely useful. Think Acrobat, what used to be the "Creative Suite." Much more useful than say Facebook, Tiktok and their ilk.
 
philb2 said:
So I have to ask. Why all this hating on Adobe? For lots of people, their products are genuinely useful. Think Acrobat, what used to be the "Creative Suite." Much more useful than say Facebook, Tiktok and their ilk.
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They just have a bunch of scummy business practices. The main 3 are that you use to buy Adobe Software, whereas now you rent it, they have a contract that's heavily in their favor (i.e. they can train off anything you do), and they make it near impossible to cancel the subscription (dark patterns as well as a heavy termination fee).

(You use to spend like $1200 on the Adobe Suite and then pretty much only upgrade 5 years later, whereas now you need to spend $800/year.)
 
ChadD said:
An entire generation of annoyed coders, many of which are out of work; others that get to go to work to tell the AI what it is supposed to be doing that day.

The human base is quite motivated to burn it all down to the ground. How to do that? Well you can't really do much about the big massive corporation having the ear of the software companies telling them how easy it will be to downsize. However you can take the ultimate output of that labour, back track its development with the same tools they wish to replace you with and release open source versions of everything. You want AI coding. OK we'll show you AI coding. lol
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The one thing I've seen is that there's definitely a huge divide amongst programmers.

There is the tech crowd vs the art crowd. The first one having the mindset of any technology is good, and if you don't agree with that, you shouldn't be in the industry. The second one views programming as a personal meaning, in which the powers that be are soulless and destructive.
 
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Nytegard said:
The one thing I've seen is that there's definitely a huge divide amongst programmers.

There is the tech crowd vs the art crowd. The first one having the mindset of any technology is good, and if you don't agree with that, you shouldn't be in the industry. The second one views programming as a personal meaning, in which the powers that be are soulless and destructive.
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I believe you are 100% correct. The issue for big software publishers. Is both types of programmers will use AI to do these types of things, different reasoning same result.
 
Nytegard said:
They just have a bunch of scummy business practices. The main 3 are that you use to buy Adobe Software, whereas now you rent it, they have a contract that's heavily in their favor (i.e. they can train off anything you do), and they make it near impossible to cancel the subscription (dark patterns as well as a heavy termination fee).

(You use to spend like $1200 on the Adobe Suite and then pretty much only upgrade 5 years later, whereas now you need to spend $800/year.)
Click to expand...
Look, I'm not exactly an Adobe fanboy. In one photo forum, I am often critical of Adobe, particularly their confused and confusing naming scheme. However, lots of software these days is sold on an annual subscription. I have no problem for example, paying for a subscription to Revo Uninstalled Pro or Goodsync Pro.

With Adobe, I used to pay ~ $150 for purchasing a version upgrade. Now I pay $120 a year for a subscription. Big difference. Not.
 
Nytegard said:
The one thing I've seen is that there's definitely a huge divide amongst programmers.

There is the tech crowd vs the art crowd. The first one having the mindset of any technology is good, and if you don't agree with that, you shouldn't be in the industry. The second one views programming as a personal meaning, in which the powers that be are soulless and destructive.
Click to expand...
How does that difference work out in practice, in people's jobs?
 
philb2 said:
Look, I'm not exactly an Adobe fanboy. In one photo forum, I am often critical of Adobe, particularly their confused and confusing naming scheme. However, lots of software these days is sold on an annual subscription. I have no problem for example, paying for a subscription to Revo Uninstalled Pro or Goodsync Pro.

With Adobe, I used to pay ~ $150 for purchasing a version upgrade. Now I pay $120 a year for a subscription. Big difference. Not.
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Fine enough if you don't mind but, Nyte presented strong reasons to consider opting for a single payment or free SW or even alternative subscription options.
 
philb2 said:
How does that difference work out in practice, in people's jobs?
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Right now most are going the vibe coding route. I don't think this is going to be beneficial in the end. I'm seeing this more and more in that people don't understand nor have any clue what's going on any more, even the senior developers.

If I had my way, which obviously I don't, I think more of a hybrid approach would be better. Write the code manually, use the LLM to find issues with it.

Because people are saying how much more productive it makes them.

Yet, when you think about it, when you write the code manually, where is the vast majority of your time in programming spent? Not really writing the code but debugging the code you wrote. If I know what I'm trying to accomplish, and the LLM points out I have a logic error somewhere, that doesn't detract from my understanding of the code. If I run into a situation where the LLM hallucinates and just can't solve the problem, I still have knowledge of the code and know where to look.

This also works well for training junior developers. Because they have code ownership, they're improving. And when gcc throws out 10000 warnings from a mistake in their header code with templates, the only real danger is that they're not going to be as careful in their first pass before they attempt compiling.

While this isn't as fast as fully vibe coding, it shaves off 50-60% of development time with few long-term consequences. Vs with the vibe coding, where once it starts going wrong, it goes wrong in spectacular fashion.
 
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