Why I Love The “Star Wars” Prequels (And You Should, Too)

[OutOfPhase]

I have kids of many ages, and have been revisiting many of these.

I no longer loathe 1-3 as much as I previously did. That is my glowing endorsement, based upon seeing what truly bad Star Wars could be. I took my older son who loved every single of the previous movies to the last three. He was semi-positive, guardedly for 7 and 8. After 9, we just walked to the car and said nothing.

 

[Aurelius]

I have kids of many ages, and have been revisiting many of these.

I no longer loathe 1-3 as much as I previously did. That is my glowing endorsement, based upon seeing what truly bad Star Wars could be. I took my older son who loved every single of the previous movies to the last three. He was semi-positive, guardedly for 7 and 8. After 9, we just walked to the car and said nothing.

As I think about it, my only truly large beef with an individual movie is with Episode 9. The prequels and the first two movies in the final trilogy certainly had their flaws, but 9 was an overcorrection where they threw too many gotchas and unbelievable-even-for-Star-Wars events into the mix. I still maintain that Episode 8's subversiveness was great... if it had either been carried through in 9, or preferably present from 7.

 

[polonyc2]

7- 9 were awful...they seemed to change direction every movie with no unified story...first Snoke was the big bad villain then they just decided to kill him off and bring back zombie Palpatine...what a waste...Kylo Ren was one of the worst SW characters of all time...they tried making him into a Vader type of character with a redemption arc but it felt forced...Rey wasn't a bad character but again having her related to Palpatine was silly...having everything connected to the original trilogy was their worst decision

surprisingly the best of the sequel trilogy was Last Jedi where Rian Johnson actually tried to move the story beyond the usual Skywalker characters

 

[HockeyJon]

7- 9 were awful...they seemed to change direction every movie with no unified story...first Snoke was the big bad villain then they just decided to kill him off and bring back zombie Palpatine...what a waste...Kylo Ren was one of the worst SW characters of all time...they tried making him into a Vader type of character with a redemption arc but it felt forced...Rey wasn't a bad character but again having her related to Palpatine was silly...having everything connected to the original trilogy was their worst decision

surprisingly the best of the sequel trilogy was Last Jedi where Rian Johnson actually tried to move the story beyond the usual Skywalker characters

Mostly agree, aside from one thing. Rey was a terrible character. She's perfect at everything all the time, and is always the smartest and most powerful person in every scene. It's impossible to create any compelling storylines when the protagonist has zero to learn, and goes through zero struggle to get to their end goal. There isn't anything to relate to or be inspired by, unlike we had in the original trilogy. Luke started the films as a whiny teenager who knew nothing, gets his ass kicked by Vader who toys with him throughout The Empire Strikes Back, and then trains up to become a powerful Jedi by ROTJ. That was interesting. Rey just knows how to do everything before she even knows what the Force is. Not only does it break canon, it's also rather boring.

 

[jfreund]

Mostly agree, aside from one thing. Rey was a terrible character. She's perfect at everything all the time, and is always the smartest and most powerful person in every scene. It's impossible to create any compelling storylines when the protagonist has zero to learn, and goes through zero struggle to get to their end goal. There isn't anything to relate to or be inspired by, unlike we had in the original trilogy. Luke started the films as a whiny teenager who knew nothing, gets his ass kicked by Vader who toys with him throughout The Empire Strikes Back, and then trains up to become a powerful Jedi by ROTJ. That was interesting. Rey just knows how to do everything before she even knows what the Force is. Not only does it break canon, it's also rather boring.

Of course she could do all that. Her midchlorians were off the scales!

 

[Ididar]

Mostly agree, aside from one thing. Rey was a terrible character. She's perfect at everything all the time, and is always the smartest and most powerful person in every scene. It's impossible to create any compelling storylines when the protagonist has zero to learn, and goes through zero struggle to get to their end goal. There isn't anything to relate to or be inspired by, unlike we had in the original trilogy. Luke started the films as a whiny teenager who knew nothing, gets his ass kicked by Vader who toys with him throughout The Empire Strikes Back, and then trains up to become a powerful Jedi by ROTJ. That was interesting. Rey just knows how to do everything before she even knows what the Force is. Not only does it break canon, it's also rather boring.

How is that different than Anakin? Yes, he trained but he was also constantly pushed to the front of everyone else as the "saviour". They didn't shut up about how amazing he was and he was still a whiney bitch the whole time. Honestly, while I like the actor, the character was just a pain in the ass. They could have told a much better story about how he became Vader than what they did. But, they went deep on the saviour complex stuff and it was just annoying as shit. As a character, I found Rey far more likeable. But, yes, I agree she should have been shown to have done much more training than she did.

Granted, the original has not aged well either. If you look at Vader's abilities in 4-6 compared to his abilities in the Obi-Wan show ... it is a stark contrast. The guy was basically a wimp in 4-6 compared to what he was. He should have been able to wipe the floor with Luke in every single movie without breaking a sweat. He went toe to toe with a well trained fighter without even using his bloody light sabre. If you look at everything in context of what we have now there are just plot holes everywhere that you could drive a Star Destroyer through. Lucas kept changing shit all along and it really took the continuity and tossed it in the garbage. He became singularly focused on whatever movie he was making and not really paying attention to the overall structure of the universe that those movies existed in.

 

[HockeyJon]

How is that different than Anakin? Yes, he trained but he was also constantly pushed to the front of everyone else as the "saviour". They didn't shut up about how amazing he was and he was still a whiney bitch the whole time. Honestly, while I like the actor, the character was just a pain in the ass. They could have told a much better story about how he became Vader than what they did. But, they went deep on the saviour complex stuff and it was just annoying as shit. As a character, I found Rey far more likeable. But, yes, I agree she should have been shown to have done much more training than she did.

Granted, the original has not aged well either. If you look at Vader's abilities in 4-6 compared to his abilities in the Obi-Wan show ... it is a stark contrast. The guy was basically a wimp in 4-6 compared to what he was. He should have been able to wipe the floor with Luke in every single movie without breaking a sweat. He went toe to toe with a well trained fighter without even using his bloody light sabre. If you look at everything in context of what we have now there are just plot holes everywhere that you could drive a Star Destroyer through. Lucas kept changing shit all along and it really took the continuity and tossed it in the garbage. He became singularly focused on whatever movie he was making and not really paying attention to the overall structure of the universe that those movies existed in.

I think there’s a huge difference between those two characters.

First of all, yes, there are many plot holes, and I didn't think the prequels were particularly good, but consider the following on Anakin vs Rey.

1) Anakin was suspected of being prophesied to be the one to bring balance to the force, and was assessed as such from a young age, taken into the Jedi council, and trained extensively, and considering his essentially religious prophecy status, you would have expected them to treat him that way. By the time you get to Episode II, he’s a young adult with presumably years of training under his belt, supervised by the best the Jedi council has for mentorship. He still gets his ass kicked by Count Dooku at the end of the movie, exposing one of his character flaws, that being overconfidence to the point of arrogance, and a lack of patience which combine to prevent him from doing the appropriate level of preparation. Rey, by contrast, has zero training and doesn’t even know what the Force is, yet manages to apply Jedi mind tricks and never once loses a fight at any time in any of the movies regardless of how much experience she has. Unlike Anakin, she has no character flaws and nothing to learn. Anakin’s emotions get the better of him, which is why he loses the fight with Dooku. Rey has no such issues, because she’s perfect.

2) Han Solo has flown the Millennium Falcon for years and knows the ship inside and out. Rey shows up and teaches him how to fix it like 12 seconds after she first sees the ship. What? It’s another example of where she has zero character growth because Kennedy wanted a feminist power fantasy, and therefore she can never struggle because she has to be perfect in every way and better than everyone else all the time.

3) Regarding Vader’s abilities, he does wipe the floor with Luke for the entire Episode V. He toys with him constantly on Cloud City and Luke only manages to get away with a lucky break because Vader specifically can’t kill him since he needs him alive. I think Vader was shown to be immensely powerful in 4-6. Everyone is visibly intimidated by him when he’s on screen, save for maybe Governor Tarkin which likely shows more of Vader’s respect for chain of command than anything else. So I don’t agree with your assessment of Vader on 4-6, I think that was done rather well (significantly better than Kyle Ren, who never appears particularly intimidating on screen). I can’t speak for the Obiwan show since I gave up on Disney Star Wars before it came out.

 

[sfsuphysics]

Mostly agree, aside from one thing. Rey was a terrible character. She's perfect at everything all the time, and is always the smartest and most powerful person in every scene. It's impossible to create any compelling storylines when the protagonist has zero to learn, and goes through zero struggle to get to their end goal. There isn't anything to relate to or be inspired by, unlike we had in the original trilogy. Luke started the films as a whiny teenager who knew nothing, gets his ass kicked by Vader who toys with him throughout The Empire Strikes Back, and then trains up to become a powerful Jedi by ROTJ. That was interesting. Rey just knows how to do everything before she even knows what the Force is. Not only does it break canon, it's also rather boring.

I'm pretty sure that's because Kathleen Kennedy really was pushing an agenda with Star Wars. Coming out with a shirt that says "The Force is Female", and there's nothing wrong with having a female lead at all, but yeah. There was just something off at the direction that the franchise was going, and surprise surprise she was head of Lucas Film from 2012 to 2026 when episode 7,8,9 and all sorts of other spin offs came out, the lesbian show, hell it's no wonder why so many clung onto the Mandalorian, which I personally think is kind of mediocre but it was the closest thing to the old series as we got.

 

[Absalom]

I can’t speak for the Obiwan show since I gave up on Disney Star Wars before it came out.

All good points, but you simply must watch Andor. The writing is so elevated, it's too good for Star Wars.

The Mandalorian has its moments as well. I view it at times as more or less a Sergio Leone spaghetti Western take on Star Wars - once you get past the fan service that is Grogu.

Kennedy didn't pollute everything during her run.

 

[Aurelius]

All good points, but you simply must watch Andor. The writing is so elevated, it's too good for Star Wars.

The Mandalorian has its moments as well. I view it at times as more or less a Sergio Leone spaghetti Western take on Star Wars - once you get past the fan service that is Grogu.

Kennedy didn't pollute everything during her run.

Kennedy did some good, including those. I don't mind Grogu at all as he's both a good story hook and... let's be honest, relentlessly cute.

Rey being a feminist icon is great, but she needed to struggle more than she did. The people who are naturally good at everything are often problems as they take success for granted. You want a heroine who's great because she fought her battles and learned her lessons.

 

[Ididar]

I think there’s a huge difference between those two characters.

First of all, yes, there are many plot holes, and I didn't think the prequels were particularly good, but consider the following on Anakin vs Rey.

1) Anakin was suspected of being prophesied to be the one to bring balance to the force, and was assessed as such from a young age, taken into the Jedi council, and trained extensively, and considering his essentially religious prophecy status, you would have expected them to treat him that way. By the time you get to Episode II, he’s a young adult with presumably years of training under his belt, supervised by the best the Jedi council has for mentorship. He still gets his ass kicked by Count Dooku at the end of the movie, exposing one of his character flaws, that being overconfidence to the point of arrogance, and a lack of patience which combine to prevent him from doing the appropriate level of preparation. Rey, by contrast, has zero training and doesn’t even know what the Force is, yet manages to apply Jedi mind tricks and never once loses a fight at any time in any of the movies regardless of how much experience she has. Unlike Anakin, she has no character flaws and nothing to learn. Anakin’s emotions get the better of him, which is why he loses the fight with Dooku. Rey has no such issues, because she’s perfect.

And yet, despite all his training, all the special attention he received, he was still a whiney bitch. He was the very definition of a spoiled, entitled brat the entire time and that precipitated his downfall. He gets the best training, the most attention, and yet he still feels he deserves more and more. Yes, that was his story arc but they could have written it in such a way that he didn't come across so bloody annoying. Combat wise, yes, his arc made sense. But character wise? Holy jesus did they write him as an annoying twat. Only the fact that the fans knew he eventually becomes Vader gives him any redemption at all.

2) Han Solo has flown the Millennium Falcon for years and knows the ship inside and out. Rey shows up and teaches him how to fix it like 12 seconds after she first sees the ship. What? It’s another example of where she has zero character growth because Kennedy wanted a feminist power fantasy, and therefore she can never struggle because she has to be perfect in every way and better than everyone else all the time.

Agreed somewhat. It was a bit too much but she was a tech person herself. It isn't like she came out of nowhere. Her whole life was scavenging through old tech and finding what was most valuable. Presumably, in that time, she figured out how to fix things. So it might have been a bit of a reach but not really that odd. Of everything, that is probably the most fitting to her character to be able to fix stuff out of the blue. As issues go, that's pretty damned small. Luke was apparently a brillaint X-Wing pilot despite having bugger all experience at it and yet nobody cares about that because, well, he's Luke Skywalker!

3) Regarding Vader’s abilities, he does wipe the floor with Luke for the entire Episode V. He toys with him constantly on Cloud City and Luke only manages to get away with a lucky break because Vader specifically can’t kill him since he needs him alive. I think Vader was shown to be immensely powerful in 4-6. Everyone is visibly intimidated by him when he’s on screen, save for maybe Governor Tarkin which likely shows more of Vader’s respect for chain of command than anything else. So I don’t agree with your assessment of Vader on 4-6, I think that was done rather well (significantly better than Kyle Ren, who never appears particularly intimidating on screen). I can’t speak for the Obiwan show since I gave up on Disney Star Wars before it came out.

Again, I draw a direct comparison to his fight in Obi-Wan with Vader and the Third Sister. The guy completely humiliates her in combat without even trying and yet Luke, with far less training, gets in a lucky shot? Of course, this is obviously a continuity problem because they just wanted to make the fighting in everything after 4-6 much flashier and so everyone's skills got "amped up". Vader wants him alive, sure, but he also leaves the Third Sister alive and it is hilarious how easy it is for him. The Inquisitors were the people they sent to hunt down Jedi and Vader makes her look like a bloody joke. That's how powerful he was. But, again, just a big huge plot hole because of the big change they made in lightsabre combat and use of the force once they started making the films again.

 

[Absalom]

Kennedy did some good, including those. I don't mind Grogu at all as he's both a good story hook and... let's be honest, relentlessly cute.

That's the problem there. I don't think Grogu was intended to be Mando's cute little sidekick as long as he was. Grogu should have been written-off, or parked away in a Jedi Temple some far off place, perhaps by the conclusion of season one. Then you bring him back seasons later and we all go "Oh, it's that little guy from way back!" But the writers weren't allowed to do that because "The kids want to see Grogu!", blah blah blah. Grogu is an example of show's writing prevented from being elevated (Can you imagine such a character sticking around that long in Firefly?). As an adult, I found Carl Weather's character far more interesting than Grogu.

Grogu is now so important the latest movie had to put his name in the title. He's taken over what could have been an otherwise adult oriented show. If they do another movie, it will be titled "The Adventures of Baby Yoda and the Mandalorian".

Merchandising!

 

[Absalom]

Luke was apparently a brillaint X-Wing pilot despite having bugger all experience at it and yet nobody cares about that because, well, he's Luke Skywalker!

Do you realize how much skill it takes to bull's-eye a womp rat with a T-16 on Tatooine? Also, his dad was a champion pod racer at age 9. It's in his blood (or so we're told).

 

[Prince Valiant]

They still don't make him out to be a perfect pilot. Luke only survives because others cover his flight and Han comes in at the last moment. Unless I'm misremembering something.

 

[HockeyJon]

I'm pretty sure that's because Kathleen Kennedy really was pushing an agenda with Star Wars. Coming out with a shirt that says "The Force is Female", and there's nothing wrong with having a female lead at all, but yeah. There was just something off at the direction that the franchise was going, and surprise surprise she was head of Lucas Film from 2012 to 2026 when episode 7,8,9 and all sorts of other spin offs came out, the lesbian show, hell it's no wonder why so many clung onto the Mandalorian, which I personally think is kind of mediocre but it was the closest thing to the old series as we got.

Star Wars always had a strong female lead in Princess Leia. The expanded universe had Mara Jade. The fans loved those characters because they were dynamic and interesting. Kennedy introduced a wooden Mary Sue in Rey and then claims the fans are misogynistic when they rejected her as a worthwhile lead.

 

[HockeyJon]

All good points, but you simply must watch Andor. The writing is so elevated, it's too good for Star Wars.

The Mandalorian has its moments as well. I view it at times as more or less a Sergio Leone spaghetti Western take on Star Wars - once you get past the fan service that is Grogu.

Kennedy didn't pollute everything during her run.

I have heard good things about Andor. The sad thing is the viewership numbers for it are low, which is a reflection of how apathetic the fans have become. I remember when Episode I came out. It felt like a global event. Now? No one cares. Not even the fans care. I have a friend in the 501st Legion who says a lot of the membership hate the new trilogy. When you lose the cosplayers, you have a serious problem on your hands

 

[HockeyJon]

And yet, despite all his training, all the special attention he received, he was still a whiney bitch. He was the very definition of a spoiled, entitled brat the entire time and that precipitated his downfall. He gets the best training, the most attention, and yet he still feels he deserves more and more. Yes, that was his story arc but they could have written it in such a way that he didn't come across so bloody annoying. Combat wise, yes, his arc made sense. But character wise? Holy jesus did they write him as an annoying twat. Only the fact that the fans knew he eventually becomes Vader gives him any redemption at all.

Yes, he was deeply flawed and had things about his character he wanted to work on in an effort to achieve self-improvement, like every other human being on planet earth. This makes for a potentially interesting character for the audience because they would have things we could related to, either personally or through people we've observed. You can go on a journey with that character. Rey shows up and is just super duper awesome at everything all the time. There is no journey with such a character, which makes for unbelievably boring storytelling. That's exactly the point.

Agreed somewhat. It was a bit too much but she was a tech person herself. It isn't like she came out of nowhere. Her whole life was scavenging through old tech and finding what was most valuable. Presumably, in that time, she figured out how to fix things. So it might have been a bit of a reach but not really that odd. Of everything, that is probably the most fitting to her character to be able to fix stuff out of the blue. As issues go, that's pretty damned small. Luke was apparently a brillaint X-Wing pilot despite having bugger all experience at it and yet nobody cares about that because, well, he's Luke Skywalker!

That's a possible explanation, but even the best technician knows what they know. If you know how to fix one type of car, you can likely find your way around a different car, but not as well as the mechanic who's spent 30 years of its life diagnosing and fixing problems on that exact platform. Of course, Rey knows all cars and all platforms at all times, even better than people with decades of experience. Why? Because she's Rey, obviously, and she knows everything there is to know about everything. She has nothing to learn from anyone else, especially not a man.

Regarding Luke, recall in A New Hope in his conversation with Biggs, it's revealed he was already an experienced pilot flying craft with controls similar to the X-Wing, craft that were used to train X-Wing pilots, and he himself says him and Biggs used to practice firing at small targets in those craft. It's not a stretch that someone already an expert on the training aircraft and already an accomplished marksman could fulfill that role when called upon. In Rey's case, of course, she can no doubt already pilot an X-Wing and hit any small target she wants. She can pilot anything without prior training or experience, because she's Rey, and she can do anything!

Again, I draw a direct comparison to his fight in Obi-Wan with Vader and the Third Sister. The guy completely humiliates her in combat without even trying and yet Luke, with far less training, gets in a lucky shot? Of course, this is obviously a continuity problem because they just wanted to make the fighting in everything after 4-6 much flashier and so everyone's skills got "amped up". Vader wants him alive, sure, but he also leaves the Third Sister alive and it is hilarious how easy it is for him. The Inquisitors were the people they sent to hunt down Jedi and Vader makes her look like a bloody joke. That's how powerful he was. But, again, just a big huge plot hole because of the big change they made in lightsabre combat and use of the force once they started making the films again.

I'll have to take your word on this since I haven't seen the scene in question, although if it's in the hands of Disney writers at this point, my expectations are predictably low lol.

 

[SticKx911]

Obi-Wan was worth a watch imo. Andor is on the same level as rogue one. Maul is pretty good too.

 

[Ididar]

Yes, he was deeply flawed and had things about his character he wanted to work on in an effort to achieve self-improvement, like every other human being on planet earth. This makes for a potentially interesting character for the audience because they would have things we could related to, either personally or through people we've observed. You can go on a journey with that character. Rey shows up and is just super duper awesome at everything all the time. There is no journey with such a character, which makes for unbelievably boring storytelling. That's exactly the point.

I don't know about a journey. He was a spoiled brat through all the movies until Obi-Wan leaves him mostly dead at the end of the third film. He really didn't change much in 2 and 3. Granted, neither did Rey but her character, to me, was easier to listen to because she wasn't constantly whining. That said, I agree that the problem with Rey's character development was purely force/sabre fighting training. She didn't have any development, at all, and that sucked. Anakin showed development on the fighting side but was an absolutely stunted character on the personality side. Whine, whine, whine, whine ... dark side. That's it. Again, I think the actor did a great job, especially with the physical stuff, but my god was the writing on that character bad.

I'll also throw an opinion out about the fighting in 1-3 ... I didn't like it. At the time of watching it I thought it was flashy but it really is horrible as weapon fighting. They spend more time with their back to their opponent spinning around than they do actually trying to do any damage. Looks nice on screen but it is more dancing than fighting. As someone who has fought with swords it is just .... ugh.

 

[HockeyJon]

I don't know about a journey. He was a spoiled brat through all the movies until Obi-Wan leaves him mostly dead at the end of the third film. He really didn't change much in 2 and 3. Granted, neither did Rey but her character, to me, was easier to listen to because she wasn't constantly whining. That said, I agree that the problem with Rey's character development was purely force/sabre fighting training. She didn't have any development, at all, and that sucked. Anakin showed development on the fighting side but was an absolutely stunted character on the personality side. Whine, whine, whine, whine ... dark side. That's it. Again, I think the actor did a great job, especially with the physical stuff, but my god was the writing on that character bad.

I'll also throw an opinion out about the fighting in 1-3 ... I didn't like it. At the time of watching it I thought it was flashy but it really is horrible as weapon fighting. They spend more time with their back to their opponent spinning around than they do actually trying to do any damage. Looks nice on screen but it is more dancing than fighting. As someone who has fought with swords it is just .... ugh.

Definitely a fair criticism on Anakin's scripting, I don't disagree. I wasn't a fan of it either. My primary point is that in order for characters to be interesting, you have to have SOMETHING to overcome through the course of the story. There needs to be something to add in emotions like tension, empathy, etc, and make the audience feel like something is at stake. With Rey, you never get that feeling, because you know she'll just constantly show up and dominate by design. Nothing is ever at risk and no outcome is ever in question. It's the type of hero character a child would design to represent themselves in a fantasy story, which is probably exactly what's going on here.

I liked the fight choreography in the prequels, but yes, it's obviously not realistic sword fighting technique, although we're also dealing with dudes who have a mastered mystical energy that also doesn't exist in the real world. It's typical Hollywood though. No different than firearms, where cops are shooting out flailing arms and car tires with pistols from unrealistic distances. Even with Star Wars itself, there's plenty of sound in space, which isn't accurate, but the audience would be bored if half the movie was on mute. Lucas wanted to base it off of WWII dogfighting (even the death star trench run was inspired by The Dambusters), and when he was told by another filmmaker that there is no sound in space, his response was "there is in mine". It's an artistic choice that yes, was physically unrealistic, but added immensely to the entertainment value of the spectacle, so I was willing to give it a pass.