GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating systems — group says it will never require personal information

[DukenukemX]

As stupid as the law is. I mean do any of us just have an option to say no I shall not follow the law.

Open source means you have all the options.

Honestly systemds addition of an optional filed is expected. As long as it remains optional. Then its up to people upset to not take it out on people complying with the law, and instead focus their anger on the people passing the laws. As an optional filed it should be up to distros do do anything with it or not. I haven't heard anyone suggest the field will be come mandatory and systemd will nuke your system or something if its not used.

I can't do anything about it I don't live in California. Did anyone really believe sysmted founded and still mainly funded by Red Hat (IBM) was going to stick their middle finger up. Stupid law sure, but if they pass companies like IBM aren't going to say na screw you. I mean its fair to pressure the bigs like Red Hat to fight, but ignoring laws isn't happening. Demanding purity tests from little evening/weekend warrior distros isn't changing anything.

People were hoping more open source projects would stand up to this age verification like what we're seeing with GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS is matching expectations here.

The other issue is how disjointed this age implementation is. Ubuntu and forks based on it are going to do local D-Bus API. There's SystemD and Fedora might use Apple's API. It's almost certain that no single method is going to be implemented, which also means no single application will ever use it.

I also don't see this being legally enforced. Brazil has the law active and they make extensive use of OpenSuse and there is still no age verification system in OpenSuse. It's very likely these age verification laws will have no teeth and over time they'll be removed and forgotten. At least on the Linux side of things. Too many people will fork projects that implement age verification that it'll break age verification more so than it already is. Distros that have a corporate backing like Fedora will quickly lose people.

View: https://youtu.be/ud7NEaHKP-k?si=2U9jRDndJf-CLDX2

 

[Mazzspeed]

People were hoping more open source projects would stand up to this age verification like what we're seeing with GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS is matching expectations here.

So they 'stand up to it' then users can't access a number of websites...What then? Honestly, I can't see how this is winning?

 

[SmokeRngs]

People either aren't reading posts, or their cognitive bias is very selective:


Furthermore, as stated such an implementation at this point in time undeniably makes it far easier for non tech savvy parents to implement restrictions controlling what their Children can access online along with effective parenting, in a way that's as non intrusive as possible from the perspective of privacy.

It has nothing to do with reading comprehension or cognitive bias.

The people supporting these laws are either looking to cause additional harm or are unable or unwilling to recognize the consequences.

Do you understand that these laws would shield companies from liability for a huge list of things? Your kid got addicted to xyz thing on a social media site; too bad. All they have to say is it wasn't "designed" for kids and it's your fault the OS age thing allowed them to access xyz. You can no longer sue. That means the companies can go even further in the design of intentionally addictive content. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will shield them from liability from so many different things.

The very tool you claim will help will only cause harm. There will be no reason for these companies to hold back anymore when they no longer face financial harm from their practices.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Do you understand that these laws would shield companies from liability for a huge list of things? Your kid got addicted to xyz thing on a social media site; too bad. All they have to say is it wasn't "designed" for kids and it's your fault the OS age thing allowed them to access xyz. You can no longer sue. That means the companies can go even further in the design of intentionally addictive content. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will shield them from liability from so many different things.

Once again: People either aren't reading posts, or their cognitive bias is very selective:

Because your big US tech (Meta) needs to push the onus regarding age back onto the user as opposed to Meta, so that Meta doesn't get sued to the tune of billions for posting content not suitable for minors, and so that Meta doesn't have to bother with issues regarding ID security - Gotta keep ugly little Zuck in the lifestyle he's accustomed. By entering your age at OS level, you're basically taking the onus regarding age off big US tech entirely.

The very tool you claim will help will only cause harm. There will be no reason for these companies to hold back anymore when they no longer face financial harm from their practices.

And as can be seen via my post above, I never disputed this fact. I actually made it quite clear this is exactly what they we're doing. However, in the process, they are putting more control in the hands of parents in a simple way that is as unintrusive regarding privacy as possible when the requirement only asks for a birthdate that could be anything that is passed onto the website in question as an age bracket.

 

[DukenukemX]

So they 'stand up to it' then users can't access a number of websites...What then? Honestly, I can't see how this is winning?

You keep saying this and I just don't see it. Porn websites will surely use age verification, at least the ones that are popular like PornHub. Though websites like PornHub are also tracking your mouse movement, so even if you don't click on something then they can see where you hover your mouse pointer. Or the fact that PornHub is overseen by a Rabbi. I can't make this shit up. You'd be doing yourself a favor and avoid such websites.

Websites like Instagram and Facebook already ask for age verification from the user, so why would they go after the OS? Even if they do, it doesn't stop people from either avoiding using such a website or just installing an addon that blocks it, like Ublock Origin does. Better yet, just pretend to not live in a place that doesn't require age verification. Other than Chrome and Firefox, I just do see any software that will actually use the age verification system. Also, FireFox and Chrome have dozens of forks, so it's not hard to avoid this either. I'm already in the middle of dumping FireFox for their implementation of AI. I'm going either LibreWolf for better privacy or Zen Browser for performance boost. It's not like Fusion 360 and Photoshop will require age verification.

A prime example of why this will fail is ads, because it's not like ads aren't everywhere. One could even say that ads are unavoidable and everywhere. Ads have been around for over 30 years on computers. Yet, we know ad blocking is very effective. Windows has gotten so bad with ads that it drove some people away to Linux and MacOS. This is how age verification is going to end up, except there's no financial incentive for corporations to enforce it. Anyone who wanted to know your age has already asked you and you probably already entered it in.

It has nothing to do with reading comprehension or cognitive bias.

The people supporting these laws are either looking to cause additional harm or are unable or unwilling to recognize the consequences.

Do you understand that these laws would shield companies from liability for a huge list of things? Your kid got addicted to xyz thing on a social media site; too bad. All they have to say is it wasn't "designed" for kids and it's your fault the OS age thing allowed them to access xyz. You can no longer sue. That means the companies can go even further in the design of intentionally addictive content. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It will shield them from liability from so many different things.

The very tool you claim will help will only cause harm. There will be no reason for these companies to hold back anymore when they no longer face financial harm from their practices.

Meta's lobbying of age verification is meant to avoid legal ramifications of the crap they put out on Social Media, hence why they spent millions on it. What this also means is that nothing will change. The burden has now shifted from companies like Meta to the individual user. Slop content with sex appeal will not go away. Sex sells and this is what makes Meta the big money. What pro age verification people here need to understand is that this changes nothing. What has changed is that parents can no longer sue websites like Facebook if their children see questionable content.

The other thing to understand is that this is also aimed at Linux users. As much as some people here want to believe that your privacy has left you a long time ago, then people here don't understand how OS's like Linux has been shielding them. Linux has become such a problem that age verification is almost exclusively aimed at it. Microsoft, Google, and especially Apple who were eager to implement this without question. It's only Linux users who have been causing an uproar over this. These laws also make sure to mention Linux as if Linux age verification is enforceable.

To give an idea how much this has turned the Linux world upside down, even pacman lead developer had some choice words on this. Unlike Windows and MacOS where you have no choice, but with Linux there's a lot of distros. Like... a lot of distros. If people are upset over a distro with age verification then they could just distro hop over to one that doesn't. Distros are afraid of losing users over this. For what is a small subset of people who happen to have laws that require age verification for something that is very likely unenforceable. As a CachyOS user I see EndeavourOS as an attractive alternative since they have no plans to do age verification. Assuming that Arch Linux and CachyOS don't also go against age verification as there's no official stance on this yet.

"Also, web browsers provide access to adult material on the internet (and as far as I can tell, have no other usage), so we need to block these too."

 

[LukeTbk]

Do you understand that these laws would shield companies from liability for a huge list of things?

yes (which like section 236) is a last attempt at keeping the Internet free. the more exposed to lawsuit companies are the more restrective and fearful they become.

A self-censor/parent responsability base proposed by california, shielding company for what adults do on the Internet (and not be too much responsible if kids pass themselve as adult, just some if normal use of the app gave clear clue of the user age), is if we are realistic by far the best outcome for a free Internet and privacy/anonymity on it continu with the world pressure against big tech going on.

 

[ChadD]

Open source means you have all the options.

People were hoping more open source projects would stand up to this age verification like what we're seeing with GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS is matching expectations here.

The other issue is how disjointed this age implementation is. Ubuntu and forks based on it are going to do local D-Bus API. There's SystemD and Fedora might use Apple's API. It's almost certain that no single method is going to be implemented, which also means no single application will ever use it.

I also don't see this being legally enforced. Brazil has the law active and they make extensive use of OpenSuse and there is still no age verification system in OpenSuse. It's very likely these age verification laws will have no teeth and over time they'll be removed and forgotten. At least on the Linux side of things. Too many people will fork projects that implement age verification that it'll break age verification more so than it already is. Distros that have a corporate backing like Fedora will quickly lose people.

View: https://youtu.be/ud7NEaHKP-k?si=2U9jRDndJf-CLDX2

Stand up? You can speak out against laws if you want and you should if its a stupid or bad law.

On the other hand if a company is operating in a place which has a law. Saying FUCK you I don't like your law piss off. Is actually not an option.

Companies conform to different laws in different countries all the time. It is a reality of conducting business.

I get expecting a little open source project based in some other country to say no we won't is fun. But expecting the big Linux players like IBM to say fuck the gov. is honestly just dumb. They won't be doing that its not an option. Also I have no idea what the effect of using any of these OS not offering the abilty to conform to the law could be. I mean if you live in China and decide to run a non apporved OS... your device is going to get confiscated and your going to go to reeducation. In the US I guess just confiscation is very possible. I am sure any one arrested in the effected states or maybe even flying into. If your phone has graphine on it you may well end up loosing your device.
I hope they are all lobbying against this moronic crap. I also understand them somewhat preparing for what seems inevitable at this point. A optional flag in systemd is logical. If a distro is forced to require the field to be filled. Fine. As long as its a optional flag in systemd which as I understand it is all it is or has been setup to be. (There is builtt in KILL SYSTEMD, or even a report to X if the field or full of anything) SystemD also has optional flags for your address in user profiles.... no one was ever upset by that.

Sure its stupid and annoying. But yes distros like RHEL, Fedora, Ubuntu, SLES all the commercial linux distros are going to implement this. Not operating in California isn't really an option.

Companies conform to laws in places like the MIddle east and Chiina all the time. We don't know about it cause it doesn't effect us. I think its abosutltely fucking stupid that American states are going the same route... but I don't live there either. I can't effect laws in places I don't live and am not a citizen of. Just like I have no power to tell China to get bent. If I want to operate in China, I have to conform to their laws or just not operate there.

 

[DukenukemX]

On the other hand if a company is operating in a place which has a law. Saying FUCK you I don't like your law piss off. Is actually not an option.

This is why I assumed Ubuntu would implement this first, because Canonical is a business who's interested in selling Ubuntu services. Same goes for Fedora who is owned by Red Hat... who is owned by IBM. These type of distros will usually implement age verification because privacy was never their goal. But there will be Linux distros that will go ageless and people will switch to those.

In the US I guess just confiscation is very possible. I am sure any one arrested in the effected states or maybe even flying into. If your phone has graphine on it you may well end up loosing your device.

I doubt anyone is going to your home to take your device, let alone fine those who aren't doing what is needed by this law. It wouldn't be hard to disguise GrapheneOS as my default phones OS, just like I can disguise Linux to look like Windows 11. Linux is not a sold product and is likely immune to such lawsuits. Remember computer source code is a form of expression that is protected by free speech under the First Amendment. This was already tested in court in 1996 with Bernstein v. United States which took place in California of all places. Nobody is going to court over this because it's an easy case to win. If anything these age verification laws are like scare crows, meant to scare Linux distros into compliance. The hope is that nobody actually takes this to court.

I hope they are all lobbying against this moronic crap. I also understand them somewhat preparing for what seems inevitable at this point. A optional flag in systemd is logical. If a distro is forced to require the field to be filled. Fine. As long as its a optional flag in systemd which as I understand it is all it is or has been setup to be. (There is builtt in KILL SYSTEMD, or even a report to X if the field or full of anything) SystemD also has optional flags for your address in user profiles.... no one was ever upset by that.

What is inevitable is people who will remove SystemD in favor of an alternative that doesn't even have an optional flag. Anything that requires age verification will likely have an ageless version because open source.

Sure its stupid and annoying. But yes distros like RHEL, Fedora, Ubuntu, SLES all the commercial linux distros are going to implement this. Not operating in California isn't really an option.

That's fine because those distros will eventually die a slow death. This is why having so many Linux distros is a good thing, because eventually this sort of thing happens and people will distro hop. People will vote by switching distros.

 

[ChadD]

This is why I assumed Ubuntu would implement this first, because Canonical is a business who's interested in selling Ubuntu services. Same goes for Fedora who is owned by Red Hat... who is owned by IBM. These type of distros will usually implement age verification because privacy was never their goal. But there will be Linux distros that will go ageless and people will switch to those.

I doubt anyone is going to your home to take your device, let alone fine those who aren't doing what is needed by this law. It wouldn't be hard to disguise GrapheneOS as my default phones OS, just like I can disguise Linux to look like Windows 11. Linux is not a sold product and is likely immune to such lawsuits. Remember computer source code is a form of expression that is protected by free speech under the First Amendment. This was already tested in court in 1996 with Bernstein v. United States which took place in California of all places. Nobody is going to court over this because it's an easy case to win. If anything these age verification laws are like scare crows, meant to scare Linux distros into compliance. The hope is that nobody actually takes this to court.

What is inevitable is people who will remove SystemD in favor of an alternative that doesn't even have an optional flag. Anything that requires age verification will likely have an ageless version because open source.

That's fine because those distros will eventually die a slow death. This is why having so many Linux distros is a good thing, because eventually this sort of thing happens and people will distro hop. People will vote by switching distros.

All the commercial distros will do what they must. Complying with laws isn't really optional.
Which is why I find it silly for people to be getting upset with any distro that says we will do what we have to do to comply with the law. When has not doing that ever been an option. Honestly GrapheneOS and other hobby distros can say such things cause no one cares... and they are not real businesses.

I have no ideas what the laws are in California, just like I don't really know what the laws are in China. Same same right? /jk

SLES RHEL and the like are not going anywhere. You think IBM cares what the MA PRIVACCCY folks think? Banks are going to continue using RHEL. lol

As for open source your right, which is why I don't know why anyone is all upset. Age verification account setups? This might possibly come to the larger workstation distros like Ubuntu sure. It won't be coming to the distros we use no. Systemd has plenty of empty data fields who cares. You can put your address into your Linux account if you wish. No one does but the data field is there. lol

As for confiscations sure no one is going to come get your desktop. Good luck buying commercial operating systems that are not complying with laws. Windows Mac all commercial Linux flavors will comply cause no complying with legal laws is actually not an option. Having said that if you fly a lot.... there are countries that will do crap like confiscate phones. I don't think my friends in the United States are at that point yet. It seems like some of your govs are pushing for it though.

 

[DukenukemX]

All the commercial distros will do what they must. Complying with laws isn't really optional.
Which is why I find it silly for people to be getting upset with any distro that says we will do what we have to do to comply with the law. When has not doing that ever been an option. Honestly GrapheneOS and other hobby distros can say such things cause no one cares... and they are not real businesses.

GrapheneOS made a deal with Motorola phones in 2027 that will have phones with their OS, so I really doubt that's the case. It's most likely that GrapheneOS's main value which is privacy would be worthless if they bend the knee to age verification. Again, Red Hat and Canonical aren't doing Linux to sell you privacy but GrapheneOS does.

As for open source your right, which is why I don't know why anyone is all upset. Age verification account setups? This might possibly come to the larger workstation distros like Ubuntu sure. It won't be coming to the distros we use no. Systemd has plenty of empty data fields who cares. You can put your address into your Linux account if you wish. No one does but the data field is there. lol

Nobody even wants an empty field. It seems benign until it turns into cancer.

As for confiscations sure no one is going to come get your desktop. Good luck buying commercial operating systems that are not complying with laws. Windows Mac all commercial Linux flavors will comply cause no complying with legal laws is actually not an option. Having said that if you fly a lot.... there are countries that will do crap like confiscate phones. I don't think my friends in the United States are at that point yet. It seems like some of your govs are pushing for it though.

I'm not sure how they would know what's on my device unless I have to give them my password to unlock it? I've had this happen before, which is why I would travel with the worst cheapest phone I can possibly carry with me. The laptop could have a spare SSD waiting to get swapped, and once I arrive at my destination then I'll swap out the Windows SSD for the Linux ageless SSD. I could also just dual boot or just fake Linux to look like Windows 11 and nobody would care. We're not exactly talking about smart people here. If it sounds like Windows, acts like Windows, and looks like Windows, then surely it's Windows?


View: https://youtu.be/0A6KCp_wMQw?si=zCQqiXSmT31_9z0I

 

[ChadD]

GrapheneOS made a deal with Motorola phones in 2027 that will have phones with their OS, so I really doubt that's the case. It's most likely that GrapheneOS's main value which is privacy would be worthless if they bend the knee to age verification. Again, Red Hat and Canonical aren't doing Linux to sell you privacy but GrapheneOS does.

If they have a deal with the Lenovo to be on Motorola phones. Then you can 100% be sure that their current stance is going to change.
Lenovo is not going to break laws to sell phones.

Or the version that goes on Motorola phones at min will comply. You think Lenovo who complies with every Chinese law is going to knowingly on purpose flaunt and ignore US laws? No.

 

[Mazzspeed]

GrapheneOS made a deal with Motorola phones in 2027 that will have phones with their OS, so I really doubt that's the case. It's most likely that GrapheneOS's main value which is privacy would be worthless if they bend the knee to age verification. Again, Red Hat and Canonical aren't doing Linux to sell you privacy but GrapheneOS does.

If it becomes law and they're a commercial entity, they will have no choice but to comply. What part of this are you struggling with? You seem to be directing your anger at distro level when you should be directing your anger at Government/Meta level.

Websites like Instagram and Facebook already ask for age verification from the user, so why would they go after the OS?

Others, myself included, have stated many times over why big US tech wants to add age fields at OS level. What makes this comment really strange is the fact that latter in your post you actually state the reason why.

To quote yourself from latter in your post:

Meta's lobbying of age verification is meant to avoid legal ramifications of the crap they put out on Social Media, hence why they spent millions on it. What this also means is that nothing will change. The burden has now shifted from companies like Meta to the individual user.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

 

[DukenukemX]

If they have a deal with the Lenovo to be on Motorola phones. Then you can 100% be sure that their current stance is going to change.
Lenovo is not going to break laws to sell phones.

Or the version that goes on Motorola phones at min will comply. You think Lenovo who complies with every Chinese law is going to knowingly on purpose flaunt and ignore US laws? No.

If it becomes law and they're a commercial entity, they will have no choice but to comply. What part of this are you struggling with? You seem to be directing your anger at distro level when you should be directing your anger at Government/Meta level.

If GrapheneOS does bend the knee for age verification because of Motorola then nobody will want to use it. The community behind GrapheneOS aren't exactly the friendly type. I'm not saying that GrapheneOS maybe won't comply, I'm saying that the community will eviscerate them. The people behind the project are also not exactly the most friendly either.

View: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0?si=YR0330VkodJih_HK

Others, myself included, have stated many times over why big US tech wants to add age fields at OS level. What makes this comment really strange is the fact that latter in your post you actually state the reason why.

To quote yourself from latter in your post:

Are you deliberately being obtuse?

Do you think I feel bad for big tech companies? The only reason this has come up is because Section 230 may get repealed. Instead of lobbying to protect Section 230, they'd rather push this onto the individual instead, while claiming this is "for the children". The children gain negative protection and social media companies are no longer liable. I don't think Section 230 should be repealed and I think it should be protected.

 

[ChadD]

If GrapheneOS does bend the knee for age verification because of Motorola then nobody will want to use it. The community behind GrapheneOS aren't exactly the friendly type. I'm not saying that GrapheneOS maybe won't comply, I'm saying that the community will eviscerate them. The people behind the project are also not exactly the most friendly either.

That may be.
联想集团有限公司 (Lenovo)
The publicly traded company founded and based in Beijing, China. Is making plenty of phones that spy on people. Including probably every phone sold branded as Motorola.

There is ZERO chance they are breaking any of these age requirement laws. ZERO.

So either the deal is off with Graphene if they insist. OR they add it to their OS proper or the version they give to Lenovo.

It isn't even a question. Like hmmm maybe they will maybe they won't. NO THEY WILL. They are not breaking US law. Even unpopular US laws. And anything anyone is accusing the age requirement thing of doing spy wise. They are doing far worse already.... so .

I'm going to buy a Freedom phone from... MOTOROLA. A brand owned by a company headquartered in Beijing? I mean it never made sense. Maybe all this stuff makes people consider how silly that idea was anyway.

 

[mullet]

Laws get broken all day long, even by the people that made them.

 

[Mazzspeed]

If GrapheneOS does bend the knee for age verification because of Motorola then nobody will want to use it. The community behind GrapheneOS aren't exactly the friendly type. I'm not saying that GrapheneOS maybe won't comply, I'm saying that the community will eviscerate them. The people behind the project are also not exactly the most friendly either.

If GrapheheOS is installed on a commercial product, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. That's the simple reality of the situation.

Do you think I feel bad for big tech companies? The only reason this has come up is because Section 230 may get repealed. Instead of lobbying to protect Section 230, they'd rather push this onto the individual instead, while claiming this is "for the children". The children gain negative protection and social media companies are no longer liable. I don't think Section 230 should be repealed and I think it should be protected.

Well none of us feel bad for the tech companies, but your anger is directed in totally the wrong direction.

 

[DukenukemX]

Laws get broken all day long, even by the people that made them.

Especially the ones who made them. If law makers really wanted to protect the children then someone would have done something with the Epstein files by now, and not make stupid laws that break the constitution for something stupid like age verification.

If GrapheheOS is installed on a commercial product, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. That's the simple reality of the situation.

Ok, and like I said the community will eviscerate them.

Well none of us feel bad for the tech companies, but your anger is directed in totally the wrong direction.

Where should I direct it then? No matter what, my goal is to remove age verification from the OS. Legal or otherwise, it will be removed. By the way, CachyOS team seems in favor of age verification or at least neutral. The backlash is very real. People are already threatening to leave for Artix Linux because it's Arch based and isn't using SystemD. Artix made it clear they'll never support age verification.

View: https://youtu.be/IJN6UWZPrzk?si=FksHpyYzjhppTRyJ

 

[Mazzspeed]

Ok, and like I said the community will eviscerate them.

Because the devs bound to follow the law?

Where should I direct it then?

Don't you have a local Government official or some form of Government department regarding communication you can email your grievances to?

No matter what, my goal is to remove age verification from the OS.

So you're gonna get those pending laws OS developers are obliged to follow changed?

By the way, CachyOS team seems in favor of age verification or at least neutral.

The developers of 'Arch' are neutral on the matter. If the law requires it (considering the Steam Deck runs an Arch variant), they will be forced to comply. But if you don't like it, go dig up a distro running an init system other than systemd and see how far you get.

The backlash is very real. People are already threatening to leave for Artix Linux because it's Arch based and isn't using SystemD. Artix made it clear they'll never support age verification.

There's a vocal minority that were spurred on by the very YouTube influencer linked in your post, probably the same people sending death threats to systemd devs while thinking such actions are righteous and acceptable - It has to be stated, such actions are not only unacceptable, they're directed at the wrong people.

 

[DukenukemX]

Because the devs bound to follow the law?

A law for two states and Brazil that likely also breaks the 5th amendment. A law that is likely illegal. Which as a reminder, Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Anything that breaks the Constitution is considered null and void. These age verification laws just haven't been challenged yet in court. I'm just waiting for a video from LegalEagle to see his professional view on this.

Don't you have a local Government official or some form of Government department regarding communication you can email your grievances to?

Already did for the state of NY. I have a home in NY so I can complain if I want to.

So you're gonna get those pending laws OS developers are obliged to follow changed?

Probably don't have to. These age verification laws are technically illegal. The only reason everyone is afraid is because in order to prove these laws null and void, you'd need to spend a lot of money on lawyers.

The developers of 'Arch' are neutral on the matter. If the law requires it (considering the Steam Deck runs an Arch variant), they will be forced to comply. But if you don't like it, go dig up a distro running an init system other than systemd and see how far you get.

A lot of people didn't like SystemD to begin with so... Also, there will be forks.

There's a vocal minority that were spurred on by the very YouTube influencer linked in your post, probably the same people sending death threats to systemd devs while thinking such actions are righteous and acceptable - It has to be stated, such actions are not only unacceptable, they're directed at the wrong people.

I'm not in favor of death threats. Seems like every time something controversial happens, people always end up mentioning death threats like we're all in favor of it. I already mentioned a number of peaceful methods of protest, so why harp on death threats? Also, don't think I like Lunkuke at all. Remember, he's the guy who made videos on how Linux sucks, and then betrayed everyone in favor of Google owning the Linux kernel. Lunduke is just the only guy who's actually taking about this. We live in strange times. First, Tucker Carlson seems sane and now Lunduke is defending privacy for Linux users. I swear, Hell must have frozen over.

View: https://youtu.be/mhqeuO9RKKk?si=6NcSEOJYskGMaeG1

 

[Mazzspeed]

A law for two states and Brazil that likely also breaks the 5th amendment. A law that is likely illegal. Which as a reminder, Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Anything that breaks the Constitution is considered null and void. These age verification laws just haven't been challenged yet in court. I'm just waiting for a video from LegalEagle to see his professional view on this.

And yet it's still a proposed law that OS developers will be forced to comply with should they be involved in any corporate entity at all.

Probably don't have to. These age verification laws are technically illegal. The only reason everyone is afraid is because in order to prove these laws null and void, you'd need to spend a lot of money on lawyers.

You think the Government cares about legal technicalities? I'm sure there's some loophole that allows them to pass the proposed age field as law. If they pass this as law, OS developers will have to comply - It's that simple.

A lot of people didn't like SystemD to begin with so... Also, there will be forks.

So you have options? Great, this whole discussion is moot.

 

[DukenukemX]

Some pretty good memes floating around.

 

[mope54]

If it becomes law

If they pass this as law

I'm really tired of you repeating this.

Once again it is already the law.

California's Digital Age Assurance Act (AB 1043) was signed into law on October 2025 and takes effect January 1, 2027.

Colorado's SB26-051 is set to go into effect on January 1, 2028 unless a referendum is passed.

Unlike your earlier non-sequitur to me, AB 1043 and SB26-051 mandate that operating systems (OS) and app stores verify user ages during device setup. It requires self-reported age data to create age-appropriate experiences, focusing on four age brackets (<13, 13–15, 16–17, 18+). Additionally, you simply ignored the salient points I raised regarding the relevance of the other states' laws to this discussion even though they don't require OS level verification.

You don't seem to have conducted the most rudimentary research on this topic you're opining so strongly about and appear to be engaging in bad-faith discussion in my opinion.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Once again it is already the law.

And, once again, you have options. Your feelings regarding repetitiveness are largely mutual, and, due to the fact you have options - this thread over an arbitrary figure that could be anything you wish it to be is moot.

 

[mope54]

Your response doesn’t even make sense or seem to relate to what I wrote. The sentences don’t even seem coherent in and of themselves other than the random words strung together all happen to be in English. Like a bot…or someone having a stroke.

What are you even trying to say?

 

[MaZa]

And, once again, you have options. Your feelings regarding repetitiveness are largely mutual, and, due to the fact you have options

For how long? How far are countries willing to go in their desire to create an Orwellian dystopia which they are in control of? Will people who are against this get pushed into the digital equivalent of an underground slum from Demolition Man where folk struggle to get anything because they refuse to comply with the norms of the land above? More and more shopping is done online and mom 'n' pop stores dissappear. Depending on how far they will go digital ID checks may become mandatory even for mundane things.

I don't know about you but I'd rather not find out where this road will lead. All this nonsense should be nipped in a bud before it potentially grows into a monster.

 

[mullet]

My next phone will have GrapheneOS for sure. The standard Apps are perfect for me.

 

[Axman]

I don't know about you but I'd rather not find out where this road will lead. All this nonsense should be nipped in a bud before it potentially grows into a monster.

I get the impression that some people are so opposed to Lunduke that they would comply with anything he's opposed to. To the point where some of his critics working in the open-source community have made statements about how dangerous open-source software is and needs to be shut down.

 

[DukenukemX]

My next phone will have GrapheneOS for sure. The standard Apps are perfect for me.

I'm thinking of getting a Linux phone because Google seems to want to lock down Android. We'll see how long before side loading is no longer an option even for custom roms like GrapheneOS.

I get the impression that some people are so opposed to Lunduke that they would comply with anything he's opposed to. To the point where some of his critics working in the open-source community have made statements about how dangerous open-source software is and needs to be shut down.

Lunduke doesn't matter. If he happens to be on the same side as I am on the issue of age verification, then I'll consider this a temporary truce. Once we find ways to change these laws then I'll go right back to hating him.

Oh a sad note, MidNightBSD is adopting age verification. It's called version 4.0.4.

To set age 15 on a user account:
doas agectl -a 15 myuser

You may also use date of birth if you prefer
agectl -b 2006-02-28 myacct

By default, the root account assumes it's run as a user 18+. Parents should manage PCs in jurisdictions requiring this functionality for it to work as intended. You can change the age of the root account.

Application developers needing to check for the signal can do so in 3 ways:
run agectl without arguments as the user. (for shell scripts, etc)
use the new functions in libutil

int * agev_get_age_bracket(const char *username);
int agev_set_age(const char *username, int age);
Directly communicate with the aged(8) socket. (not recommended)

 

[Axman]

Lunduke doesn't matter. If he happens to be on the same side as I am on the issue of age verification, then I'll consider this a temporary truce. Once we find ways to change these laws then I'll go right back to hating him.

I wasn't accusing anyone here or anything like that. More toward the tech industry. I think a lot of people in the operating system business would be putting up a fight, or at least a stink, if there wasn't this perceived rift. We are generally more alike, especially when it comes to open-source, but there is a push from big tech to make a lot of this stuff suck.

It's not a left-right issue, it's an up-down issue.

I mean, look at how much backpedaling Microsoft is doing with Windows to make it look more user-friendly, while simultaneously gutting projects like Bazzite. I very much think the Deck, Steam Machine, and SteamOS are ringing alarm bells at Microsoft. They know that if word gets out that there are viable alternatives, including Apple getting a lot more competitive, that they'll start losing users, which are their actual product. They're throwing their whole ass and a half into the next Xbox...insert the "it's scared" meme.

 

[ERipley]

Here I sit with my lowly Pixel 10 Pro XL locked to At&t for 3 years or whatever.....

 

[DukenukemX]

I wasn't accusing anyone here or anything like that. More toward the tech industry. I think a lot of people in the operating system business would be putting up a fight, or at least a stink, if there wasn't this perceived rift.

Just cause it's open source doesn't mean there isn't a business strategy behind it. That's why I assumed that Ubuntu would be the first to adopt this, because in the end Ubuntu sells services for Ubuntu. When I used to use Mint there was a time that FireFox did not default to Google search and I had to change it every time. I then found out that this occurred because Mint wasn't getting paid by Google to make Google the default.

This is also why I don't disagree that maybe GrapheneOS will comply with age verification, because it seems that GrapheneOS is now working with Motorola. At the moment, GrapheneOS is against age verification, but we'll see how long that'll last. The other Linux distros that aren't implementing age verification are just not getting funding from a commercial source. At least, not a major commercial source.

We are generally more alike, especially when it comes to open-source, but there is a push from big tech to make a lot of this stuff suck.

Don't pay too much attention to tech. Pay attention to the Zuckerberg behind the curtain. These laws are designed specifically to attack open source OS's since this will easily defund them. The tech industry is just responding in a way that will hopefully make both the government and their user base happy. The problem is, you can't make everyone happy. Distros either side with users, in hope to continue to exist or side with the government and watch as they slowly lose funding from said users. Distros like Ubuntu and Ferdora don't care because in the end, they are a commercial product.

It's not a left-right issue, it's an up-down issue.

Never said it was a left or right issue. I hope that more people realize this is a bipartizen issue, and one that isn't in your favor.

I mean, look at how much backpedaling Microsoft is doing with Windows to make it look more user-friendly, while simultaneously gutting projects like Bazzite. I very much think the Deck, Steam Machine, and SteamOS are ringing alarm bells at Microsoft. They know that if word gets out that there are viable alternatives, including Apple getting a lot more competitive, that they'll start losing users, which are their actual product. They're throwing their whole ass and a half into the next Xbox...insert the "it's scared" meme.

Linux has been nipping at Microsoft's heels for a while, but it's Apple's Neo that maybe turning Microsoft around with Windows 11. That being said, Linux now doubles MacOS on Steam. There should be some alarm bells for Apple as well. Apple's answer maybe the Neo itself. At the end of the day, both Apple and Microsoft won't fight age verification because it benefits them. Microsoft and Apple could easily lobby to stop this, but won't. As long as "think of the children" exists, they have their excuses.

 

[MaZa]

I get the impression that some people are so opposed to Lunduke that they would comply with anything he's opposed to. To the point where some of his critics working in the open-source community have made statements about how dangerous open-source software is and needs to be shut down.

I am not his follower, I have seen only few videos from him but so far from what I have seen, his takes have been very level headed and mature. I dont know why would anyone be so vehemently against him unless he has a history?

Or is it a political issue which these seems to make people drop their brains in the USA and attack the messenger rather than the message...

 

[DukenukemX]

I am not his follower, I have seen only few videos from him but so far from what I have seen, his takes have been very level headed and mature. I dont know why would anyone be so vehemently against him unless he has a history?

Or is it a political issue which these seems to make people drop their brains in the USA and attack the messenger rather than the message...

He does have a history. For me, it was when he thinks the future of the Linux kernel was Google. More specifically, Google's ChromeOS. ChromeOS is now nearly dead. If only Google treated ChromeOS like a Linux distro and not it's own OS. Things would have been different.


View: https://youtu.be/mhqeuO9RKKk?si=f5FKdC39Dqfz1Eh8

 

[Nobu]

I think his opinions are well thought out, but maybe misguided. He's certainly intelligent.

 

[longblock454]

I'm thinking of getting a Linux phone

I have been longing for a nice Linux Tablet with LTE for years. Had a 1st Gen Pinephone years ago but it wasn't even good enough to call a toy.

 

[Nobu]

I have been longing for a nice Linux Tablet with LTE for years. Had a 1st Gen Pinephone years ago but it wasn't even good enough to call a toy.

The first Pinephone was okay, did what it was intended to do. It was a development platform first, and that was clear if you ever had to use it. Poor battery life, slow, buggy. But it did work.

I do want a good Linux phone one day. I would try on my pixel 8a, but apparently it's the only Pixel 8 that isn't supported by most alternate firmwares. I could maybe make it work, but since this is my dd, I'm hesitant.

 

[MaZa]

He does have a history. For me, it was when he thinks the future of the Linux kernel was Google. More specifically, Google's ChromeOS. ChromeOS is now nearly dead. If only Google treated ChromeOS like a Linux distro and not it's own OS. Things would have been different.


View: https://youtu.be/mhqeuO9RKKk?si=f5FKdC39Dqfz1Eh8

I haven't watched the video fully yet but so far it is mostly complaining about his political views, and mostly because he is a obviously very, VERY conservative. "See!? See!? Thats what he thinks of women or sexuality or <insert subject here>" seems to be the theme here.

Maybe the video changes at some point, we'll see. If we have to mix politics in, while I have conservative views myself (so I can see where Lunduke is coming from at the times) I hate left and right equally and bloody hell, I even hate the term centrist which some might consider me as. I am a typical Black Metal-head who'd rather live in isolation in some forest or mountain rather than deal with political bickering. People are after all complex individuals with differing views and not dots on some two dimensional straight line with labels...

*Edit* an hour in, still politics but yeah... Lunduke does seem to jump the shark... Often...

 

[DukenukemX]

HaHa, I mean meow.
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/07/28/us/duress-password-phone-wipe-charge.html

 

[Nobu]

Yeah, technicallllly the phone deleted the data. I'd lawyer up and it'd be "my client forgot his credentials" till the cows come home.

 

[Lateralus]

Yeah, technicallllly the phone deleted the data. I'd lawyer up and it'd be "my client forgot his credentials" till the cows come home.

Well, there is precedent for this kind of thing after all.

Prosecutor: “Nobu, the passcode that you provided to Customs was designed to wipe the phone, correct?”

Nobu: “Sorry - not sure what you mean. Why would they wipe it? Like with a cloth or something?”