Steam Integration coming to XBox ???

[d3athf1sh]

Does de bloating windows magically replace NTFS?

like with windows 11 literally, this october, microsoft is literally producing largest amount of e-waste in the history of the world by making 90% of compatible devices, incompatible with their new OS. why wouldn't they not take that opportunity to replace the file system and anything else that's antiquated? what a dumb farkin move. if you ask me, i'm gonna tell you to "never do anything halfass". but it really makes no difference to me. i've gone linux. and i absolutely hate Bill Gates, what a garbage human.

but really we know why this is going down like it is. if you remember correctly, win 10 was suppose to be the last version of windows and was just going to be continually upgraded from there, similar to OSX. but then AMD started beating Intel and taking marketshare. and instead of just "updating the scheduler", i'm guessing intel paid them a large chunk of money to write a whole new OS to take advantage of their new architecture (big little). man can you imagine the world we'd be living in right now if MS would've wrote a whole new OS to take advantage of AMD's piledriver+++ multithreaded architecture instead of just keeping everything including games to only work with dual-quad cores? i mean there are games now that won't run on systems with more than 4 cores and you have to use workarounds to play them. not to mention that AMD got sued for them "technically not having 8 cores" when technically they did for most workloads, basically hardware hyper-threading. and now i look in trade magazines and see say laptops advertised as having "10 cores!" when really it's just the same old quad core with 6 "e cores"? how the f*** is that any better? that's not 10 "real cores". not to mention they're still pushing those trash 12-14th gen with their degradation problems. those should've all been recalled. but hey i guess that's the world we live in.

 

[HeadRusch]

all that text to say absolutely nothing about what i originally replied to.

to quote you again:

to explain to you, since you obviously don't understand my comment, (ugh i can't believe i'm having to do this) you are all excited MS bought a bunch of big name game studios? just to claim license to their IP's and then proceeded to fire most of the staff and then keep a few people around to train the new low wage noobs and help enforce all the woke rules/agenda that comes with being owned by microsoft. and all that money spent, just to add a bunch more mid game slop to their subscription service?! i guess you're too young to understand the statement "everything MS touches turns to sh*t". either that or you're one of those woke defenders that enjoys woke slop? because any game worth it's salt is going to self publish and reap the rewards. all those sweet baby games and stuff like dragqueen age: the failhard, take MS's money to be on game pass to "just get by" instead of actually making a great game like Baldur's Gate 3 that people don't mind paying for, especially when they get an actual hard copy/forever license (GOG) and turning into multi-millionares over night? or take GTA for instance, i don't think that's going to make it to game pass my friend. but that isn't really the point, the original point is, like i said (and this is historically accurtate) "everything microsoft "aquires" turns to sh*t" ...weeee!!! ?

You're correct about one thing, I didn't understand your comment. Now I see what you really meant to say instead of "Hows that working out for you?".....was....whatever the F all this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is. Next time just lean-in with the ranting diatribe against Microsoft, but I do appreciate you clarifying your point.

 

[HeadRusch]

Really you know what MS could actually do to attempt to kill of SteamOS..... Embrace. Make a Xbox Linux distro. Use XFS or Samsungs F2FS... Use a core/thread aware linux scheduler. Tweak the kernel up (they know how 90% of MS own server and cloud stuff runs MS linux) Use DirectX 12 instead of DXVK. The windows back end doesn't matter to users. MS could scrap all their stuff that doesn't work and have a working MS Xbox Linux distro in probably a couple months. MS really wants to go full Embrace Extend.... open source DirectX and release a Linux version. Now DXVK and to an extent Vulkan becomes redundent.

Could be, or they could keep being MIcrosoft and create a new handheld OS that runs Xbox code the way xbox does on some bespoke AMD hardware, too.......how it stacks up to SteamDeck might be immaterial if they aim it at Console gamers and not PC gamers who are, like this thread here clearly illustrates, going to argue the nuts and bolts and point out a half-dozen other, better, options. All I truly know is this: I ain't buyin one, I just have no interest in this kind of portable gaming.

 

[Lakados]

Could be, or they could keep being MIcrosoft and create a new handheld OS that runs Xbox code the way xbox does on some bespoke AMD hardware, too.......how it stacks up to SteamDeck might be immaterial if they aim it at Console gamers and not PC gamers who are, like this thread here clearly illustrates, going to argue the nuts and bolts and point out a half-dozen other, better, options. All I truly know is this: I ain't buyin one, I just have no interest in this kind of portable gaming.

The emulation options for that machine interests me greatly though.

 

[DukenukemX]

like with windows 11 literally, this october, microsoft is literally producing largest amount of e-waste in the history of the world by making 90% of compatible devices, incompatible with their new OS.

Another way of looking at it, is this is the best time for 90% of Windows computers to install Linux.

why wouldn't they not take that opportunity to replace the file system and anything else that's antiquated? what a dumb farkin move. if you ask me, i'm gonna tell you to "never do anything halfass". but it really makes no difference to me. i've gone linux. and i absolutely hate Bill Gates, what a garbage human.

Microsoft was working on ReFS which was going to be a half decent file system, but was left to servers. It has things like Copy-on-write (COW). Apple's file system (APFS), is far more advanced by comparison. Things like TPM2.0 and Secure Boot are not benefiting users what so ever, but is enforced by Windows 11. These are features meant to keep out unwanted OS's like Linux, while being a tool for copyright. This shows the priority Microsoft has for Windows.

but really we know why this is going down like it is. if you remember correctly, win 10 was suppose to be the last version of windows and was just going to be continually upgraded from there, similar to OSX. but then AMD started beating Intel and taking marketshare. and instead of just "updating the scheduler", i'm guessing intel paid them a large chunk of money to write a whole new OS to take advantage of their new architecture (big little). man can you imagine the world we'd be living in right now if MS would've wrote a whole new OS to take advantage of AMD's piledriver+++ multithreaded architecture instead of just keeping everything including games to only work with dual-quad cores? i mean there are games now that won't run on systems with more than 4 cores and you have to use workarounds to play them. not to mention that AMD got sued for them "technically not having 8 cores" when technically they did for most workloads, basically hardware hyper-threading. and now i look in trade magazines and see say laptops advertised as having "10 cores!" when really it's just the same old quad core with 6 "e cores"? how the f*** is that any better? that's not 10 "real cores". not to mention they're still pushing those trash 12-14th gen with their degradation problems. those should've all been recalled. but hey i guess that's the world we live in.

This is happening because of a few reasons. One is that Microsoft is trying to make Windows as much like iOS as possible so they can push for their app store. The second reason is that Microsoft wants Windows to migrate over to ARM, where things like UEFI and universal standards are not implemented. This is meant to keep out other OS's like Linux. The 3rd reason is that Microsoft does want to at some point stop piracy of apps on Windows. Again, to push users to purchase software from their store. Microsoft is a business after all, and their bottom line is what they care about.

Could be, or they could keep being MIcrosoft and create a new handheld OS that runs Xbox code the way xbox does on some bespoke AMD hardware, too.......how it stacks up to SteamDeck might be immaterial if they aim it at Console gamers and not PC gamers who are, like this thread here clearly illustrates, going to argue the nuts and bolts and point out a half-dozen other, better, options. All I truly know is this: I ain't buyin one, I just have no interest in this kind of portable gaming.

There's no reason to buy one because the benefit of this machine is running Xbox games, and ALL the Xbox games are on Windows anyway. I also don't see these machines costing the same as SteamOS versions. Microsoft isn't going to give out a custom version of Windows for gaming at no cost. What Microsoft could do is push OEM to sell the SteamOS version at the same cost as the Windows version, but that would put OEM at a disadvantage. Not to forget that Windows sleep feature is really broken, and needs to be entirely reworked to be on par with SteamOS. If you're in the market for a hand held then the Xbox/Windows machines are just not going to be attractive.

 

[ND40oz]

Another way of looking at it, is this is the best time for 90% of Windows computers to install Linux.
View attachment 736326

Microsoft was working on ReFS which was going to be a half decent file system, but was left to servers. It has things like Copy-on-write (COW). Apple's file system (APFS), is far more advanced by comparison. Things like TPM2.0 and Secure Boot are not benefiting users what so ever, but is enforced by Windows 11. These are features meant to keep out unwanted OS's like Linux, while being a tool for copyright. This shows the priority Microsoft has for Windows.

TPM allows full system encryption, why wouldn't you want that? Especially on any portable you own.

This is happening because of a few reasons. One is that Microsoft is trying to make Windows as much like iOS as possible so they can push for their app store. The second reason is that Microsoft wants Windows to migrate over to ARM, where things like UEFI and universal standards are not implemented. This is meant to keep out other OS's like Linux. The 3rd reason is that Microsoft does want to at some point stop piracy of apps on Windows. Again, to push users to purchase software from their store. Microsoft is a business after all, and their bottom line is what they care about.

Microsoft has a deal with Qualcomm for ARM and basically only supported them, they're not pushing users to ARM, they just wanted low cost/power hardware that could run Windows for that market. There's a reason they just signed a deal with AMD for Xbox and it isn't to push ARM.

There's no reason to buy one because the benefit of this machine is running Xbox games, and ALL the Xbox games are on Windows anyway. I also don't see these machines costing the same as SteamOS versions. Microsoft isn't going to give out a custom version of Windows for gaming at no cost. What Microsoft could do is push OEM to sell the SteamOS version at the same cost as the Windows version, but that would put OEM at a disadvantage. Not to forget that Windows sleep feature is really broken, and needs to be entirely reworked to be on par with SteamOS. If you're in the market for a hand held then the Xbox/Windows machines are just not going to be attractive.

All Xbox games are not on Windows, that really shows up in the exclusives they have. They've definitely rolled out more of their games across both platforms but it certainly isn't one to one yet. I have Steam Deck, a PS Portal and I'll be buying the ROG X as well. Handheld gaming has really come a long way in the past couple of years. I'm sure sleep will work fine on their mobile devices, it's not like they haven't had it working on the rest of the console lineup for generations. It's pretty easy to come back to completely dead Steam Deck because it didn't bother shutting down from sleep mode. It's not like SteamOS is great with it right now.

 

[LukeTbk]

This is happening because of a few reasons. One is that Microsoft is trying to make Windows as much like iOS as possible so they can push for their app store. The second reason is that Microsoft wants Windows to migrate over to ARM, where things like UEFI and universal standards are not implemented. This is meant to keep out other OS's like Linux. The 3rd reason is that Microsoft does want to at some point stop piracy of apps on Windows. Again, to push users to purchase software from their store. Microsoft is a business after all, and their bottom line is what they care about.

Big obvious reason is price, intel/amd charge them a fortune with giant margin.

That said UEFI is implemented on ARM, it feel purely a decision to have them or not.

Ampere arm server has UEFI, that seem a completely different subject than x86 vs arm, they could easily make microsoft x86 computer without it and easily make arm computer with it no ? you can make a proprietary bootloader or not if you want, I imagine apple when they were using intel x86 often had customized bootloader (Apple EFI or something)

but it certainly isn't one to one yet.

it must be really close too now to, what was the last major one ?
...

 

[ND40oz]

it must be really close too now to, what was the last major one ?
...

I think Gears was the last major franchise with Reloaded coming to both.

 

[LukeTbk]

I think Gears was the last major franchise with Reloaded coming to both.

Back in 2013 for the last one without a windows release ? Xbox360 era ?

 

[DukenukemX]

TPM allows full system encryption, why wouldn't you want that? Especially on any portable you own.

Disk encryption should be my choice to make. Especially which method I wish to use to encrypt my data. I can't use Veracrypt over Bitlocker. Also, what problem is this trying to solve? If I try to do any data recovery and bitlocker is enabled (which is the default in Windows 11) then good luck recovering the data.

Microsoft has a deal with Qualcomm for ARM and basically only supported them, they're not pushing users to ARM, they just wanted low cost/power hardware that could run Windows for that market. There's a reason they just signed a deal with AMD for Xbox and it isn't to push ARM.

I remember Windows RT and what could have been. It luckily failed.

All Xbox games are not on Windows, that really shows up in the exclusives they have.

Like what games? Conker Live & Reloaded?

I'm sure sleep will work fine on their mobile devices, it's not like they haven't had it working on the rest of the console lineup for generations. It's pretty easy to come back to completely dead Steam Deck because it didn't bother shutting down from sleep mode. It's not like SteamOS is great with it right now.

Sleep is still a problem with the way the BIOS is doing it. This is still Microsoft's fault because their idea to fix Windows sleep was really bad.

Big obvious reason is price, intel/amd charge them a fortune with giant margin.

The Qualcomm Snapdragon X laptops are not much better, and soon Nvidia's SoC won't be either. Looking right now on Amazon and I can find laptops with Ultra 7 256V that's cheaper than a Snapdragon X. It's not a Microsoft Surface device, but that should tell you something about Microsoft and what they're trying to push. Like, look here. Here is a Microsoft Surface with Snapdragon X for $1029. Good deal right? Except, here we have a Lenovo with an Ultra 7 256V for $1,154. The Lenovo has twice the SSD storage as the Snapdragon X Surface device. I can't even find a Surface Laptop with the new Lunar Lake chips.

That said UEFI is implemented on ARM, it feel purely a decision to have them or not.

A decision we don't see being made often on ARM.

Ampere arm server has UEFI, that seem a completely different subject than x86 vs arm, they could easily make microsoft x86 computer without it and easily make arm computer with it no ? you can make a proprietary bootloader or not if you want, I imagine apple when they were using intel x86 often had customized bootloader (Apple EFI or something)

Ampere is for servers. How does that apply to end users? We have examples of UEFI in ARM based devices, but not consumer grade devices. Qualcomm Snapdragon X chips have UEFI, but not ACPI. Most ARM based devices don't have UEFI and ACPI, but instead depend on Device Tree.

 

[ND40oz]

Back in 2013 for the last one without a windows release ? Xbox360 era ?

Halo 5: Guardian's didn't have a Windows release. Forza didn't until 7, Apex was teaser that was PC only. Forza Horizon didn't until 5. That's only the Xbox exclusives, there are still a ton of other games I have on the consoles that aren't available on PC. Gamepass Ultimate also has more console games available than on PC.

Disk encryption should be my choice to make. Especially which method I wish to use to encrypt my data. I can't use Veracrypt over Bitlocker. Also, what problem is this trying to solve? If I try to do any data recovery and bitlocker is enabled (which is the default in Windows 11) then good luck recovering the data.

It is your choice to make, you don't have to enable bit locker if you run windows, but it certainly nice to have hardware encryption be an option.

I remember Windows RT and what could have been. It luckily failed.

MCE and Home Server were great as well, all single releases as well.

Like what games? Conker Live & Reloaded?

Going by 24 years of Xbox games now, it's a ton of them. It's not like they've backported their entire library to PC, but they have backported a ton of their older catalog to the console. It's obvious when even I fire any of my consoles and then compare what I have there to what I have available in the Xbox PC app.

Sleep is still a problem with the way the BIOS is doing it. This is still Microsoft's fault because their idea to fix Windows sleep was really bad.

And SteamOS is doing the same type of stuff on the Steam Deck. It has to use some battery because it's sleeping and not hibernating.

 

[LukeTbk]

The Qualcomm Snapdragon X laptops are not much better,

Do you know how much Qualcomm was able to charge, I think the noise/rumours is that it was much lower (why would you go with them otherwise they do not have much bargaining power either), why would you look at amazon to know how much Microsoft pay for their soc, the price of the final product has no link with it, those laptop will try to be sold the maximum of money they can regardless of how much they cost to make,

Ampere is for servers. How does that apply to end users?

People that make arm computer for end users could choose to put UEFI on the motherboard as they want, we just do not have people making such device yet,

but not consumer grade devices.

How many not made by Microsoft are we talking about (rasberry pi, which is quite the popular one true) ? Even some from Microsoft some did
https://raesene.github.io/blog/2022/10/30/Project-Volterra-ARM-Desktop/ , maybe did not had time to make their own for both Android and windows instead..

Most ARM based devices don't have UEFI and ACPI, but instead depend on Device Tree.

But as ampere and Apple on x86 show, anything inherent with arm vs x86 or mostly orthogonal ?

One of the biggest success "consumer" is the Nvidia tegra platform, like the jetson orin, UEFI is the default out of the box option so is some limited ACPI (support decice tree as well), Ubuntu-redhat-fedora-L4T debian work on them I think, closed drivers will probably be more the main issue than boot system.

The moment non microsoft made computer (but that can run windows on arm on it) are made, I would not say in advance how they will work, why Amd arm CPU-motherboard would choose to not do all of that for example, not sure how exactly Nvidia DGX spark will look like but it will run linux out of the gate and I would not bet large money it will not be like Orin platform with UEFI in that regard, seem to be the case:
https://www.ami.com/blog/2025/06/03...er-the-nvidia-dgx-spark-personal-ai-computer/
The NVIDIA GTC 2025 AI Conference in March was an opportunity to learn more about the new NVIDIA DGX™ Spark – a personal AI supercomputer. In the wake of these announcements, AMI is proud to share that its Aptio® V UEFI Firmware has been selected by NVIDIA as a UEFI firmware solution to power this new device.

 

[LukeTbk]

Halo 5: Guardian's didn't have a Windows release. Forza didn't until 7, Apex was teaser that was PC only. Forza Horizon didn't until 5. That's only the Xbox exclusives, there are still a ton of other games I have on the consoles that aren't available on PC. Gamepass Ultimate also has more console games available than on PC.

That show how fast time is getting, Halo 5 was in 2015, Xbox One era, maybe an Xbox360/One emulator could get good enough will see, the Xbox One started to be both quite similar to a regular PC but running its game in a VM has well I think, to make future retroactive support theoretically easier.

 

[DukenukemX]

It is your choice to make, you don't have to enable bit locker if you run windows, but it certainly nice to have hardware encryption be an option.

It's my choice but not TPM2.0. You need TPM2.0 in order to install Windows 11. Again it's on by default.

MCE and Home Server were great as well, all single releases as well.

That's not my point. Windows RT was Microsoft trying to see if people were OK with only getting software from their store, while having no x86 backwards compatibility. People were not Ok with this.

Going by 24 years of Xbox games now, it's a ton of them. It's not like they've backported their entire library to PC, but they have backported a ton of their older catalog to the console. It's obvious when even I fire any of my consoles and then compare what I have there to what I have available in the Xbox PC app.

Most of those games are playable on PC anyway thanks to emulation. Which is the same kind of tool you'd use on Xbox anyway. The more popular games are getting ported to PC through the community.

View: https://youtu.be/T68h6vAjNEM?si=6uVq_TxPnC98_jQo

And SteamOS is doing the same type of stuff on the Steam Deck. It has to use some battery because it's sleeping and not hibernating.

I bet it could use a lot less power if we updated the sleeping method on PC.

Do you know how much Qualcomm was able to charge, I think the noise was much lower (why would you go with them otherwise they do not have much bargaining power either), why would you look at amazon to know how much Microsoft pay for their soc, the price of the final product has no link with it, those laptop will try to be sold the maximum of money they can regardless of how much they cost to make,

Why do I care what Microsoft pays? I care what I pay. Why does it matter if the cost reduction isn't making it's way to the consumer? It makes no sense to care how much corporations spend to make products, when I care what I spend on products.

How many not made by Microsoft are we talking about (rasberry pi, which is quite the popular one true) ? Even some from Microsoft some did
https://raesene.github.io/blog/2022/10/30/Project-Volterra-ARM-Desktop/ , maybe did not had time to make their own for both Android and windows instead..

That's a dev kit, which is not a consumer device. Rasberry Pi doesn't have a UEFI and ACPI standard. They have something completely different.

But as ampere and Apple on x86 show, anything inherent with arm vs x86 or mostly orthogonal ?

You pick the two worst examples for this. Ampere is again not something you can just run to MicroCenter and buy. Apple has always sucked but you can at least install Windows and Linux on their x86 devices. The main reason these things happen is because the rest of the industry does it, and the rest of the industry does it because of IBM compatibles from decades ago.

One of the biggest success "consumer" is the Nvidia tegra platform, like the jetson orin, UEFI is the default out of the box option so is some limited ACPI (support decice tree as well), Ubuntu-redhat-fedora-L4T debian work on them I think, closed drivers will probably be more the main issue than boot system.

What? The Jetson? That's a developer kit. Have you noticed that all the ARM devices that do have UEFI and ACPI are for developers and servers?

 

[LukeTbk]

Why do I care what Microsoft pays? I care what I pay. Why does it matter if the cost reduction isn't making it's way to the consumer? It makes no sense to care how much corporations spend to make products, when I care what I spend on products.

who say you should care, you gave a list of reason why Microsoft was doing this, saving money seem an obvious one. It matter to them of course, if AMD accepted to make nice SOC (and MIcrosoft would decide fully what they want as a bootloader amd or anyone else) at the same price then ARM alternative, you think microsoft would not jump on the AMD solution ?

Rasberry Pi doesn't have a UEFI and ACPI standard. They have something completely different.

Yes that why I mentioned them in that category.

You pick the two worst examples for this

It is not like there is many to go buy, it is just to show it is a different decision that the cpu isa being used, I am not sure if there is even any link between them.

What? The Jetson? That's a developer kit.

Also use in end product, consumer being in quote, like the rasberry pi is maybe not for your average consumer but so popular that it is kind of a "consumer" device, maybe people have them to use (run pi-hole and what not, not to dev prototype until the final device)

Here it was more for what to expect for the nvidia even more consumer facing upcoming device which like the link just after that went with UEFI, could you explain the link between an CPU isa and a bootloader choice ?

 

[ChadD]

The emulation options for that machine interests me greatly though.

What about microsoft and windows makes you believe a xbox handheld is better at emulation then the deck? If anything I would expect emulation to be greatly discouraged. No doubt this slimmed down xbox isn't going to just install .exe files. Its going to be the most locked down windows experience you could imagine I would assume. I mean if it wasn't locked down would we need to be talking about Steam being on it at all, if it was just windows you could install steam anyway no ?

 

[ChadD]

There's no reason to buy one because the benefit of this machine is running Xbox games, and ALL the Xbox games are on Windows anyway. I also don't see these machines costing the same as SteamOS versions. Microsoft isn't going to give out a custom version of Windows for gaming at no cost. What Microsoft could do is push OEM to sell the SteamOS version at the same cost as the Windows version, but that would put OEM at a disadvantage. Not to forget that Windows sleep feature is really broken, and needs to be entirely reworked to be on par with SteamOS. If you're in the market for a hand held then the Xbox/Windows machines are just not going to be attractive.

How many times has Microsoft had their fingers slapped legally for demanding OEMS not play nice with competition. I mean they could try that again, I think at this point Steam has way to much cash for MS to try and bully them with OEMs. No doubt moves like that would land them in court arguing what they did shouldn't trigger anti trust penalties.

All MS can do at this point is give the Xbox OS thing away, and hope somehow it doesn't flop which it will. In all of this I feel for Asus. They clearly had a contract to produce the Xbox handheld and instead they are now on the hook for marketing an also ran ROG device with a weird looking controller setup, and most likely their Microsoft contract stipulates they can't go and sell it as a SteamOS device down the road.

 

[DukenukemX]

who say you should care, you gave a list of reason why Microsoft was doing this, saving money seem an obvious one. It matter to them of course, if AMD accepted to make nice SOC (and MIcrosoft would decide fully what they want as a bootloader amd or anyone else) at the same price then ARM alternative, you think microsoft would not jump on the AMD solution ?

I still don't care what benefit Microsoft has for going ARM. The price difference isn't huge enough as a consumer which is what ultimately matters.

 

[DukenukemX]

How many times has Microsoft had their fingers slapped legally for demanding OEMS not play nice with competition. I mean they could try that again, I think at this point Steam has way to much cash for MS to try and bully them with OEMs. No doubt moves like that would land them in court arguing what they did shouldn't trigger anti trust penalties.

Court fees are just part of doing business at this point.

All MS can do at this point is give the Xbox OS thing away, and hope somehow it doesn't flop which it will. In all of this I feel for Asus. They clearly had a contract to produce the Xbox handheld and instead they are now on the hook for marketing an also ran ROG device with a weird looking controller setup, and most likely their Microsoft contract stipulates they can't go and sell it as a SteamOS device down the road.

Microsoft might give it away as a strategy to strengthen Xbox as a brand. What's to stop laptops from having this Windows gaming OS as well? I could see people just install this over regular Windows 11 just to avoid the bloat. Also, stopping them from selling it under another brand like SteamOS? You mean like Geforce Partner Program?

 

[LukeTbk]

I still don't care what benefit Microsoft has for going ARM. The price difference isn't huge enough as a consumer which is what ultimately matters.

But that was not the conversation, you pointed out a list of reason why Microsoft choose arm, I added another very probable one (maybe the #1 one... price tend to be quite the factor), I did not imply that you should care (like almost no one should care about TPM... either as they have no intention of running unsigned OS or new os on very old hardware), I do not imagine you have any interest in a heavily Microsoft branded laptop regardless, so even if the price was passed to consumer you would not care either.

 

[Lakados]

What about microsoft and windows makes you believe a xbox handheld is better at emulation then the deck? If anything I would expect emulation to be greatly discouraged. No doubt this slimmed down xbox isn't going to just install .exe files. Its going to be the most locked down windows experience you could imagine I would assume. I mean if it wasn't locked down would we need to be talking about Steam being on it at all, if it was just windows you could install steam anyway no ?

Windows is ultimately windows, lock downs are relatively simple to remove because at the end of the day your still a local admin.

I would not at all be surprised to discover this is just a stripped down Win 11 LTSC where they have removed Desktop Experience, and have it auto launching XBox GameBar that has a few extra icons for Steam and maybe Epic.

Locked down or not, if they left prompt and powershell I’m confident it won’t be hard to work from there.

And at this stage the Decks hardware is just old.

 

[ChadD]

Court fees are just part of doing business at this point.

Microsoft might give it away as a strategy to strengthen Xbox as a brand. What's to stop laptops from having this Windows gaming OS as well? I could see people just install this over regular Windows 11 just to avoid the bloat. Also, stopping them from selling it under another brand like SteamOS? You mean like Geforce Partner Program?

Oh I have no doubt MS will not be releasing ISO versions of this. Just like no one can download the current Xbox OS. I have a feeling no one will be offering this other then ASUS. Ya the GPP was highly illegal.

 

[ChadD]

Windows is ultimately windows, lock downs are relatively simple to remove because at the end of the day your still a local admin.

I would not at all be surprised to discover this is just a stripped down Win 11 LTSC where they have removed Desktop Experience, and have it auto launching XBox GameBar that has a few extra icons for Steam and maybe Epic.

Locked down or not, if they left prompt and powershell I’m confident it won’t be hard to work from there.

And at this stage the Decks hardware is just old.

IMO its delusional to believe this Xbox OS is going to allow Admin access.
The people dreaming about striped down lean mean Windows ISOs are just that delusional. MS isn't doing that.
That is what consumers would like. That doesn't mean MS is going to give anyone that.
I am pretty sure. There will be no powershell. There will be no prompt. There will be no run command. I expect this stripped down w11 will be stripped of all such things as well. I'm not even sure you'll be able to install software on it from outside the store. Maybe its just a game bar, with a mostly normal W11 home... maybe. If they do that though I doubt its nearly as stripped down as they claim either. Its either a functional desktop and runs like ass... or it really is stripped of everything including most user control and it might be fast, but unattractive.

From the ASUS announcment. "We wanted to create an authentic Xbox experience in a handheld form factor," explained Roanne Sones, CVP at Xbox.
They do go on and mention using mods from other sources. I'm not so sure that just means fire up your web browser and download random .exes to run. IMO Xbox experience means Xbox expereince. I expect this thing to be the same locked down xbox handheld you would assume Microsoft would have put their name on.

 

[ND40oz]

It's my choice but not TPM2.0. You need TPM2.0 in order to install Windows 11. Again it's on by default.

Yes, you need a modern system to install Windows 11, and by modern, we only mean something released in the past 10 years.

That's not my point. Windows RT was Microsoft trying to see if people were OK with only getting software from their store, while having no x86 backwards compatibility. People were not Ok with this.

Well they've been lockng their console down for 24 years, that doesn't seem to have hurt them when it comes to selling them. It's not going to hurt them when it comes to a handheld either. If people really want to tinker, they'll wipe the thing and install the full version of Windows 11 anyway.

Most of those games are playable on PC anyway thanks to emulation. Which is the same kind of tool you'd use on Xbox anyway. The more popular games are getting ported to PC through the community.

I don't want to have to worry about emulation and pirating games that I already own. If you're going to claim that PC and Xbox are truly cross-platform, then all the games I have need to be available in the Xbox app on my PC. With the new ROG handheld, everything that I have on my Series consoles will be available to play.

I bet it could use a lot less power if we updated the sleeping method on PC.

Well then you're going to need AMD and Intel to support new CPU states if you want that to happen.

 

[ChadD]

Yes, you need a modern system to install Windows 11, and by modern, we only mean something released in the past 10 years.

Well they've been lockng their console down for 24 years, that doesn't seem to have hurt them when it comes to selling them. It's not going to hurt them when it comes to a handheld either. If people really want to tinker, they'll wipe the thing and install the full version of Windows 11 anyway.

I don't want to have to worry about emulation and pirating games that I already own. If you're going to claim that PC and Xbox are truly cross-platform, then all the games I have need to be available in the Xbox app on my PC. With the new ROG handheld, everything that I have on my Series consoles will be available to play.

Well then you're going to need AMD and Intel to support new CPU states if you want that to happen.

The main issue with TPM and W11 is that it is required to be on.

Has it not hurt their sales? I would argue the Xbox has failed as everyone knows its a PC, but its locked down. Sony doesn't also sell a Playstation desktop alternative. PS5 75 million units sold.... Xbox 32 million units. Some of that is Sony, I would argue a lot of that is the PC being a legit Xbox Alternative. The Xbox sold decently in its first year when its hardware could be argued to a good value vs a gaming PC. Past its first year of life however many gamers will just opt for a PC. I doubt MS makes another Xbox.

On the ROG handheld. I think were just going to have to wait and see what that unit really looks like when its shipping. It was clearly the in development MS Xbox handheld. I have a feeling a lot of the things it was being designed to do have been axed. It might really just be windows 11 home with a Xbox bar on it now.
https://press.asus.com/news/press-releases/rog-xbox-ally-handheld-gaming/
I mean I have read through their announcement. I don't see anything about playing Xbox games. I don't think a hash tag #playallyourgames counts as confirmation of anything. Reading their announcement this isn't a console. Its a windows handheld. That would mean PC games. I see no confirmation here that you can install your digital XBox games or any such thing.

You don't need new sleep states. You need to properly use what is already there. Microsofts main issue is they like to use S0ix sleep mode which allows for backgruond activity while asleep. That burns power like a mother. It also leads to systems doing stupid ass things while asleep that greatly increases the chances of games crashing when they are woken up. Microsoft insisting that thier sleeping machiens still be allowed to phone home, use the network, and even process updates is why Windows sleep mode sucks balls. Linux in general will go to S3 sleep mode when you put it to sleep. Its why Valve has been able to suspend the entire system including running games to ram, and sip power generally a few % points a day of your battery... then pop right back into the game you where playing when you wake. Microsoft COULD fix their sleep mode... but then how would windows stay in contact with the mother server?

 

[ND40oz]

The main issue with TPM and W11 is that it is required to be on.

Yes, a feature that they required to be in the system is required to be on.

Has it not hurt their sales? I would argue the Xbox has failed as everyone knows its a PC, but its locked down. Sony doesn't also sell a Playstation desktop alternative. PS5 75 million units sold.... Xbox 32 million units. Some of that is Sony, I would argue a lot of that is the PC being a legit Xbox Alternative. The Xbox sold decently in its first year when its hardware could be argued to a good value vs a gaming PC. Past its first year of life however many gamers will just opt for a PC. I doubt MS makes another Xbox.

Microsoft just signed a 3 year deal with AMD for the next gen consoles. Whether or not they're first party or going to pivot to having someone like Asus release them remains to be seen.

On the ROG handheld. I think were just going to have to wait and see what that unit really looks like when its shipping. It was clearly the in development MS Xbox handheld. I have a feeling a lot of the things it was being designed to do have been axed. It might really just be windows 11 home with a Xbox bar on it now.
https://press.asus.com/news/press-releases/rog-xbox-ally-handheld-gaming/
I mean I have read through their announcement. I don't see anything about playing Xbox games. I don't think a hash tag #playallyourgames counts as confirmation of anything. Reading their announcement this isn't a console. Its a windows handheld. That would mean PC games. I see no confirmation here that you can install your digital XBox games or any such thing.

This article claims it will only play Xbox PC games, which is not what I want from an Xbox branded console.

https://www.polygon.com/xbox/607616/microsoft-amd-next-gen-xbox-pc

The Xbox Ally runs on a streamlined version of Windows and has a console-like interface. But it is missing one key component of an Xbox console: the ability to play Xbox console games natively. It will only play Xbox games that have PC versions.

You don't need new sleep states. You need to properly use what is already there. Microsofts main issue is they like to use S0ix sleep mode which allows for backgruond activity while asleep. That burns power like a mother. It also leads to systems doing stupid ass things while asleep that greatly increases the chances of games crashing when they are woken up. Microsoft insisting that thier sleeping machiens still be allowed to phone home, use the network, and even process updates is why Windows sleep mode sucks balls. Linux in general will go to S3 sleep mode when you put it to sleep. Its why Valve has been able to suspend the entire system including running games to ram, and sip power generally a few % points a day of your battery... then pop right back into the game you where playing when you wake. Microsoft COULD fix their sleep mode... but then how would windows stay in contact with the mother server?

My Steam Deck has just burned through 40% of it's battery in 3 days just sitting in sleep mode. If I let it go a week in sleep mode, it's completely dead, that's not a few percentage points a day. So even it using S3 mode isn't much better. Some sort of S4 hibernate mode would be much better for battery life if they could have quicker wake times.

 

[LukeTbk]

I mean I have read through their announcement. I don't see anything about playing Xbox games. I don't think a hash tag #playallyourgames counts as confirmation of anything. Reading their announcement this isn't a console. Its a windows handheld. That would mean PC games. I see no confirmation here that you can install your digital XBox games or any such thing.

And because of the playanywhere program... they could rely on that sub-library, maybe Microsoft will purchase more license just before launch but maybe not.

search say, more than 1000 titles are already play anywhere title, so all of those at least will be available on the ROG like they are on your regular PC right now for an Xbox user. And because of that, chance are that you are right, low effort will be made for non-play anywhere title.

If it does not include a larger playanywhere library bought for this, I am not sure where the value would come from here (after all Xbox is mostly a right to play xbox game licensing brand).

This article claims it will only play Xbox PC games, which is not what I want from an Xbox branded console.

if that is true:. It will only play Xbox games that have PC versions. I.e if microsfoft bought all game license for this, that would be great as virtually all xbox game have pc version pretty much, my feeling wsa more that it would be the subset of the playanywhere that microsoft already bought PC publishing for them that would be transfered. Or at least only play Xbox PC games is not per say an issue, as xbox only game do not really exist. Xbox license only game if bought it from the xbox store, those are common too.

 

[ChadD]

Yes, a feature that they required to be in the system is required to be on.

Microsoft just signed a 3 year deal with AMD for the next gen consoles. Whether or not they're first party or going to pivot to having someone like Asus release them remains to be seen.

My Steam Deck has just burned through 40% of it's battery in 3 days just sitting in sleep mode. If I let it go a week in sleep mode, it's completely dead, that's not a few percentage points a day. So even it using S3 mode isn't much better. Some sort of S4 hibernate mode would be much better for battery life if they could have quicker wake times.

MS also signed a deal with ASUS to mass produce the Xbox handheld... and here we are Xbox handheld cancelled. ASUS having to spend marketing money to market their ROG "Xbox" handheld. Signing a contract to design chips frankly doesn't mean a whole lot. Really if I'm looking at what the Xbox team has been doing the last few months. I am more inclined to believe they are trying to make it harder for the MS CEO to can Xbox. CEO - "Cancel the Xbox handheld." Xbox Team "Yes sir" Also Xbox team to each other. "Unchain the ASUS contract let them sell the hardware" CEO - "No new console production" Xbox Team "He didn't say we couldn't announce chip development" Really when is the last time you saw anyone announce they are going to design a new thing? It smacks of please don't fire us... we are useful and look people love us.

On hibernate. Frankly I'm not sure there is any technical way to do it better. Its the whole storing the system in ram that burns power. The CPU the network is off everything but the ram is off waiting for a resume in S3. Windows is leaving the CPU and the network on. The only other real option is to suspend to disk... though this will never provide an instant on experience either. Maybe a new sleep state could be developed that used its own dedicated partition on a SSD, you might be able to speed the resume up a bit. Won't ever be as fast as suspend to ram due to physics but it could probably be made to be more acceptable. (as long as the CPU and Network are actually off)

If it does not include a larger playanywhere library bought for this, I am not sure where the value would come from here.

When the ASUS device launches we'll get a full picture. Your correct that if it does cover the majority of titles its a selling feature. I think at the very least we'll see how committed MS is. If they go out of their way to ensure almost everything plays maybe Xbox in general has a future. If on the other hand it feels like a big cost saving exercise, I wouldn't be confident MS continues pushing Xbox stuff for much longer. MS could always just pivot to being a PC booster. With the success of the Switch and the power on offer from AMD and even Intel and Nvidia for handhelds. I have a feeling MS top management may be thinking all MS needs to do is push PC gaming, and drop drop console like handhelds and mini PCs. For that matter I mean why brand a new box as a Xbox at all... just call it a "Xbox" brand gaming PC. Have OEMs buy the AMD APU and make systems. Think of it as Microsofts version of Steam Machine V1. lol

 

[Lakados]

IMO its delusional to believe this Xbox OS is going to allow Admin access.
The people dreaming about striped down lean mean Windows ISOs are just that delusional. MS isn't doing that.
That is what consumers would like. That doesn't mean MS is going to give anyone that.
I am pretty sure. There will be no powershell. There will be no prompt. There will be no run command. I expect this stripped down w11 will be stripped of all such things as well. I'm not even sure you'll be able to install software on it from outside the store. Maybe its just a game bar, with a mostly normal W11 home... maybe. If they do that though I doubt its nearly as stripped down as they claim either. Its either a functional desktop and runs like ass... or it really is stripped of everything including most user control and it might be fast, but unattractive.

From the ASUS announcment. "We wanted to create an authentic Xbox experience in a handheld form factor," explained Roanne Sones, CVP at Xbox.
They do go on and mention using mods from other sources. I'm not so sure that just means fire up your web browser and download random .exes to run. IMO Xbox experience means Xbox expereince. I expect this thing to be the same locked down xbox handheld you would assume Microsoft would have put their name on.

Microsoft says it’s a stripped down Windows 11 Home edition.
Reports from people that have them say you can get mouse and keyboard to get command line to launch the windows UI where you have full access.
It internal memos at Microsoft have also mentioned that Xbox has been granted a lot of power now over the direction of Windows.
Supposedly Nadella is taking the rise of SteamOS very seriously, and was embarrassed that Windows gaming on Bazzite is often better than gaming on Windows 11 natively.

Microsoft has also been pitching to investors that they plan on making every windows device an XBox to justify all their gaming acquisitions.

Pair this with Nadella’s recent disparaging remarks about AI and comments that Windows is too bloated and performance is not what it should be. And we might be seeing a turn around in Windows, because revenue generated from Windows 11 is down because people are increasingly turning elsewhere or searching means of disabling their services.
So now the financial markers are also showing they have gone in the wrong direction.

 

[ChadD]

Microsoft says it’s a stripped down Windows 11 Home edition.
Reports from people that have them say you can get mouse and keyboard to get command line to launch the windows UI where you have full access.
It internal memos at Microsoft have also mentioned that Xbox has been granted a lot of power now over the direction of Windows.
Supposedly Nadella is taking the rise of SteamOS very seriously, and was embarrassed that Windows gaming on Bazzite is often better than gaming on Windows 11 natively.

Microsoft has also been pitching to investors that they plan on making every windows device an XBox to justify all their gaming acquisitions.

Pair this with Nadella’s recent disparaging remarks about AI and comments that Windows is too bloated and performance is not what it should be. And we might be seeing a turn around in Windows, because revenue generated from Windows 11 is down because people are increasingly turning elsewhere or searching means of disabling their services.
So now the financial markers are also showing they have gone in the wrong direction.

Possibly. Time will tell. I have a feeling there is a lot of middle management at MS that all have their babies. I'm not sure even having a CEO that wants to uncrapify windows is enough to get the job done at this point. Its a pretty big ship to just turn on a dime like that. Undo 2 or 3 decades of crapification... I am doubtful.

 

[LukeTbk]

Pair this with Nadella’s recent disparaging remarks about AI

The idea that this:
https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/satya-nadella

Is disparaing remarks about AI, how ?

Satya Nadella

This is where I have a problem with the definitions of how people talk about it. Cognitive labor is not a static thing. There is cognitive labor today. If I have an inbox that is managing all my agents, is that new cognitive labor?

Today's cognitive labor may be automated. What about the new cognitive labor that gets created? Both of those things have to be thought of, which is the shifting…

That's why I make this distinction, at least in my head: Don't conflate knowledge worker with knowledge work. The knowledge work of today could probably be automated. Who said my life's goal is to triage my email? Let an AI agent triage my email.

But after having triaged my email, give me a higher-level cognitive labor task of, "Hey, these are the three drafts I really want you to review." That's a different abstraction.

Dwarkesh Patel

But will AI ever get to the second thing?

Satya Nadella

It may, but as soon as it gets to that second thing, there will be a third thing. Why are we thinking that somehow, when we have dealt with tools that have changed what cognitive labor is in history, why are we worried that all cognitive labor will go away?
...
Let's take something like chemistry. If this thing, quantum plus AI really helped us do a lot of novel material science and so on, that's fantastic to have novel material science being done by it. Does that take away from all the other things that humans can do?
you said recently that you want the next 250 years of progress in those fields to happen in the next 25 years.


More optmistic about AI than Nadella is selling and pushing it in that interview would be going near lunatic level imo...

 

[DukenukemX]

I do not imagine you have any interest in a heavily Microsoft branded laptop regardless, so even if the price was passed to consumer you would not care either.

I said the same thing about Apple products, but then over time the headphone jack and the SD Card slot has gone missing in modern cell phones. Now my choice of phones with these features are nearly gone. I also don't plan to buy Microsoft branded laptops but...

Yes, you need a modern system to install Windows 11, and by modern, we only mean something released in the past 10 years.

Not all systems released in the past 10 years has TPM2.0. Also, people have been able to install Windows 11 without TPM2.0, but with a bit of hacking. Again, what problem is this trying to solve?

Well they've been lockng their console down for 24 years, that doesn't seem to have hurt them when it comes to selling them.

Why you think Steam is getting integrated into Xbox? Or why Xbox is getting integrated into Windows? You live in another universe where Xbox is actually doing really well, but that's not this universe.

I don't want to have to worry about emulation and pirating games that I already own. If you're going to claim that PC and Xbox are truly cross-platform, then all the games I have need to be available in the Xbox app on my PC. With the new ROG handheld, everything that I have on my Series consoles will be available to play.

Again, what games? Seriously, pick a game.

 

[ND40oz]

Not all systems released in the past 10 years has TPM2.0. Also, people have been able to install Windows 11 without TPM2.0, but with a bit of hacking. Again, what problem is this trying to solve?

It's enhancing the security of the OS, things like encryption and Windows Hello. The same reason Apple has the T2 chip in all of their computers. What hardware are you still using that doesn't have a TPM chip?

Why you think Steam is getting integrated into Xbox? Or why Xbox is getting integrated into Windows? You live in another universe where Xbox is actually doing really well, but that's not this universe.

Well maybe we can continue to get more dreamcast ports onto Xbox too, they're certainly doing better than Sega in this universe.

Again, what games? Seriously, pick a game.

Every Assassn's Creeds before Origins, they're all sitting on my Series X but I have no access to them on my PC. Just open the Xbox app on your phone and look at all of the games that are only available to play on the console, it's over half of them across my catalog. That's the entire reason you stick Xbox across the years, the full catalog of backwards compatible games. If you're going to call the PC app comparable, it needs to have the entire catalog and there shouldn't be a pared down PC Game Pass, it should just be Ultimate across the board.

 

[Balkroth]

Welp, kind of going with the XBOX stuff on pc theme.


https://wccftech.com/xbox-classics-emulator-enhancements/

Xbox is reportedly working on its Classics programs together with the team behind a popular emulator to bring original Xbox and 360 games to PC and Game Pass, complete with enhancements.

In a new video shared today, known Xbox Game Pass leaker eXstas1s revealed that Xbox is working with the Xenia Canary development team on a sort of Classics program to create an emulation platform that will bring old games to Series X and S, PC, Game Pass, and xCloud, complete with visual and performance enhancements. The launch of this program will coincide with the brand's 25th anniversary, and games will reportedly launch in multiple waves that will be announced throughout 2026. Among the games that will launch via this new emulation platform will be Fable 2, Skate 3, Gears of War 3, and Batman: Arkham Asylum. Many other titles, however, are also under consideration, with the team evaluating potential technical and licensing issues.

 

[SeymourGore]

Welp, kind of going with the XBOX stuff on pc theme.


https://wccftech.com/xbox-classics-emulator-enhancements/

Hopefully this will lead to me being able to play my copy of Blue Dragon on my PC and not just a slow trickle of releases to Game Pass ala Switch Online.

 

[DukenukemX]

It's enhancing the security of the OS, things like encryption and Windows Hello. The same reason Apple has the T2 chip in all of their computers. What hardware are you still using that doesn't have a TPM chip?

Plenty of people have hardware that's old enough to not have a TPM chip. It also doesn't enhance security beyond making sure if someone gets a hold of your PC that they can't just get access to your data. You will still get infected by malware just as much as before. I don't see why TPM2.0 is required but yet Bitlocker is optional.

Well maybe we can continue to get more dreamcast ports onto Xbox too, they're certainly doing better than Sega in this universe.

What?

Every Assassn's Creeds before Origins, they're all sitting on my Series X but I have no access to them on my PC.

What are you even talking about? I'm pretty sure that every Assassin's Creed game has been on PC. I constantly reference the original Assassin's Creed and how DX10 was removed because of Nvidia.

Just open the Xbox app on your phone and look at all of the games that are only available to play on the console, it's over half of them across my catalog.

I'm not doing your homework. You clearly asked ChatGPT and it gave you bad info. Every game that's been on Xbox has been ported to PC at one point or another. Nowadays it's done at the same time.

That's the entire reason you stick Xbox across the years, the full catalog of backwards compatible games.

And you think PC games isn't? You can still play games from the 90's on PC. Microsoft has also broken backwards compatibility due to licensing reasons.

View: https://youtu.be/WSSnD8vnJ7Q?si=tjkflcNq9b4c1x7_

If you're going to call the PC app comparable, it needs to have the entire catalog and there shouldn't be a pared down PC Game Pass, it should just be Ultimate across the board.

Are you going by PC Game Pass as a metric? Microsoft controls that and they can put and pull games at any time. Only Microsoft games are guaranteed to stay on Game Pass, but like Disney with Netflix, it can disappear. Look at Steam and tell me how many games you can play vs Xbox. Steam has 79,000 games vs Xbox 5,800. That includes all the Xbox's. Go back and do your research instead of depending on ChatGPT. Dumbest stuff I've ever heard.

 

[HeadRusch]

So what I'm seeing is: The next xbox is going to be a MiniPC. Fine by me, because every game sold via the Microsoft store will have to be certified compatible, meaning casuals won't get flummoxed.

 

[ND40oz]

Plenty of people have hardware that's old enough to not have a TPM chip. It also doesn't enhance security beyond making sure if someone gets a hold of your PC that they can't just get access to your data. You will still get infected by malware just as much as before.

You keep saying people have 10+ year old hardware that they want to run Windows 11 on. Where are they? If you're so tied to Linux, keep tinkering with SteamOS and use it.

I don't see why TPM2.0 is required but yet Bitlocker is optional.

Because Windows 11 is used for more than just PC gaming. You want Windows Hello, you need the TPM 2.0 chip. You want bitlocker, you need the TPM 2.0 chip, all things businesses want for their users who are the ones paying the bulk of the licensing for Windows. Apple does the same thing with their T2 chip.

What?

Yeah, my exact response when reading anything you type.

What are you even talking about? I'm pretty sure that every Assassin's Creed game has been on PC. I constantly reference the original Assassin's Creed and how DX10 was removed because of Nvidia.

I'm not doing your homework. You clearly asked ChatGPT and it gave you bad info. Every game that's been on Xbox has been ported to PC at one point or another. Nowadays it's done at the same time.

You can't possibly be this dense. Let me break it down for you in a way maybe you can understand. I have a catalog of Xbox games that's been built up for 24 years now. Many of them are playable on my Series S and X but they are not available on the PC through the Xbox app. I'm not going to rebuy games that I already own on the Xbox to play them on the PC. If you're going to claim the PC app has feature parity with the console, than it needs to support every console game.

And you think PC games isn't? You can still play games from the 90's on PC. Microsoft has also broken backwards compatibility due to licensing reasons.

View: https://youtu.be/WSSnD8vnJ7Q?si=tjkflcNq9b4c1x7_

If it's available on the Xbox console but not on the PC app, then you can't blame it on licensing.

Are you going by PC Game Pass as a metric? Microsoft controls that and they can put and pull games at any time. Only Microsoft games are guaranteed to stay on Game Pass, but like Disney with Netflix, it can disappear. Look at Steam and tell me how many games you can play vs Xbox. Steam has 79,000 games vs Xbox 5,800. That includes all the Xbox's. Go back and do your research instead of depending on ChatGPT. Dumbest stuff I've ever heard.

Game Pass clearly proves there is a discrepancy between the console and the pc, if there was parity, Microsoft wouldn't have separate versions of Game Pass. You seem to be harping on AI way too much instead of relying on personal experience. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[ChadD]

If it's available on the Xbox console but not on the PC app, then you can't blame it on licensing.

Uh ya its almost entirely due to licensing. Yes the Xbox 360 used powerPC but the CPU wasn't so unique or odd that emulation wasn't an option. Games license all sorts of things from Characters from movies for IP games, to specific music pieces. Games like Mavel games for Xbox360, can't just be emulated by MS on newer generations of hardware. Not without signing a new agreement. IP holders don't give you license to just use their IP forever on all hardware. They sign a contract saying you can make a game for X platform... it doesn't transfer to new platform 20 years from now. This is also how many non IP based video games contract their music. Over the years games like Alan Wake as an example were de listed from stores for a chunk of time while the publisher renegotiated rights to the music in the game. Often such as is the case with most movie or comic character games the IP holders quite on purpose refuse to resign deals. They won't make as much money on old games as they will on new ones, and sometimes they view people playing 20 year old IP games as brand damaging. Their are old console games that will never be licensed to be emulated legally on newer hardware.

From our friend the AI;
Xbox 360 games are not automatically compatible with newer Xbox consoles (Xbox One, Series X/S) due to differences in hardware architecture and licensing issues. While some Xbox 360 games have been made backwards compatible, the decision to add compatibility rests with the publisher and is not universal.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Hardware Differences:
  The Xbox 360 and newer Xbox consoles have different processors and architectures. This means that Xbox 360 games need to be specifically adapted or emulated to run on newer hardware.
• Publisher Discretion:
  Whether a game becomes backwards compatible is ultimately up to the publisher of that game.
• Licensing:
  Licensing for things like music, characters, or other copyrighted material can expire or be tied to the specific hardware of the Xbox 360. This can make it difficult and expensive to make a game backwards compatible

 

[ND40oz]

Uh ya its almost entirely due to licensing. Yes the Xbox 360 used powerPC but the CPU wasn't so unique or odd that emulation wasn't an option. Games license all sorts of things from Characters from movies for IP games, to specific music pieces. Games like Mavel games for Xbox360, can't just be emulated by MS on newer generations of hardware. Not without signing a new agreement. IP holders don't give you license to just use their IP forever on all hardware. They sign a contract saying you can make a game for X platform... it doesn't transfer to new platform 20 years from now. This is also how many non IP based video games contract their music. Over the years games like Alan Wake as an example were de listed from stores for a chunk of time while the publisher renegotiated rights to the music in the game. Often such as is the case with most movie or comic character games the IP holders quite on purpose refuse to resign deals. They won't make as much money on old games as they will on new ones, and sometimes they view people playing 20 year old IP games as brand damaging. Their are old console games that will never be licensed to be emulated legally on newer hardware.

I'm referring to games that are on the Series S and Series X and not on the PC Xbox app. I'm not trying to hold Microsoft to some crazy standard where they have to support games that were only on older hardware, just the current consoles.