Kaspersky Labs Sues Trump Administration

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DooKey

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Kaspersky Labs has filed a lawsuit against the US government for banning use of their software without due process. Kaspersky is suspected of colluding with Russian spy agencies and as a result of their activities the US government elected to ban their products from use within the government. Kaspersky has denied all of the allegations of wrongdoing and intends to press the matter in court. You can check out the lawsuit filing here.

The Department of Homeland Security in September issued a directive to U.S. civilian agencies ordering them to remove Kaspersky Lab from their computer networks within 90 days. The order came amid mounting concern among U.S. officials that the software could enable Russian espionage and threaten national security.
 
Russian paranoia is funny as hell to watch as it plays out. I really I wish Kaspersky luck with that.

IMHO as someone that does not live under the U.S. gooberment, I see no real difference between Kaspersky, Norton, McAfee or any other since I am not convinced that there is such a thing as an internet suckurity system that does not have back orifices that gooberment agencies can snoop in to their heart's content. Whether it is KGB, CIA, NSA, NDS, BND, MI6, CSIS or some other 3-4 character snoop agency.

Kaspersky works better on my system than 90% of the options originating closer to home.
 
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cyberguyz said:
Russian paranoia is funny as hell to watch as it plays out. I really I wish Kaspersky luck with that.

IMHO as someone that does not live under the U.S. gooberment, I see no real difference between Kaspersky, Norton, McAfee or any other since I am not convinced that there is such a thing as an internet suckurity system that does not have back orifices that gooberment agencies can snoop in to their heart's content. Whether it is KGB, CIA, NSA, NDS, BND, MI6, CSIS or some other 3-4 character snoop agency.

Kaspersky works better on my system than 90% of the options originating closer to home.
Click to expand...

Really intelligent post.

/Sarcasm
 
CNN be like "is Donald Trump getting Russian antivirus companies to sue Obama? Yes and we'll tell you why at eleven"

Wasn't there some shred of truth to Kaspersky being tainted?
 
Master_shake_ said:
CNN be like "is Donald Trump getting Russian antivirus companies to sue Obama? Yes and we'll tell you why at eleven"

Wasn't there some shred of truth to Kaspersky being tainted?
Click to expand...

Well Kaspersky products were flagged by the DIA as a threat actor in 2004 - so this process was already in motion over a decade ago. This followed with the Pentagon's assessment in 2012, and then finally the DHS taking action this September.
 
Mav451 said:
Well Kaspersky products were flagged by the DIA as a threat actor in 2004 - so this process was already in motion over a decade ago. This followed with the Pentagon's assessment in 2012, and then finally the DHS taking action this September.
Click to expand...

None of that is important, the only lens any piece of information should be viewed in is did it blame a Democrat or Republican.

Kaepersky is suing the US government, the head of which is Trump currently.
 
Govt hates competition from others spying i guess LULZ..........Go Kaspersky Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!
 
TwistedAegis said:
None of that is important, the only lens any piece of information should be viewed in is did it blame a Democrat or Republican.
Click to expand...

Hell yeah! All I care about us whether it was "my" guy's fault or if it was the "other" guy's fault! And I get to pick and choose how I throw that blame around, not the media.
/s
Kaepersky is suing the US government, the head of which is Trump currently.
Click to expand...

On a non-sarcastic note, I came here to post this latter part of your post but you beat me to it.
 
c3k said:
Misleading headline. Is [H] heading towards fake news? The lawsuit stems from an obama era ruling. This would more accurately state it is vs. the US government.
Click to expand...

Funny, if you read the article they do not mention Obama:
"WASHINGTON/TORONTO (Reuters) - Moscow-based security software maker Kaspersky Lab said on Monday it has asked a U.S. federal court to overturn a Trump administration ban on use of its products in government networks, saying the move deprived the company of due process."

and the text of the lawsuit:

Kaspersky Lab, Inc., a Massachusetts corporation, together with its U.K. parent


company Kaspersky Labs Limited (“Plaintiffs” or “Kaspersky Lab”), bring this action under the

Administrative Procedure Act (“APA”) to uphold their constitutional due process and other

rights which Defendants violated through unprecedented, sweeping, and retroactive debarment of

Kaspersky Lab from U.S. Government information systems by way of the Department of

Homeland Security’s (“DHS”) Binding Operational Directive 17-01 issued on September 13,

2017 (the “BOD”).

Soo, what do we call a fake news faker?
 
The lawsuit is amusing. "Due Process" refers to what is required before you can be deprived of your property or your rights. But there is no "right" to have the government buy your products. If they choose not to buy from you that's too bad - make your product more attractive to them and that will change.
 
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There really is nothing stopping the Russian government from showing up, taking over some Kaspersky assets, pushing an update that is a back door into whatever they want access too, and then instant compromise. I was honestly VERY surprised Kaspersky was ever even used. In my government environments over the years I couldn't even install a simple SSH client if it wasn't made in America.
 
Thanks for doing the work. :)

otherweeb said:
Funny, if you read the article they do not mention Obama:
"WASHINGTON/TORONTO (Reuters) - Moscow-based security software maker Kaspersky Lab said on Monday it has asked a U.S. federal court to overturn a Trump administration ban on use of its products in government networks, saying the move deprived the company of due process."

and the text of the lawsuit:

Kaspersky Lab, Inc., a Massachusetts corporation, together with its U.K. parent


company Kaspersky Labs Limited (“Plaintiffs” or “Kaspersky Lab”), bring this action under the

Administrative Procedure Act (“APA”) to uphold their constitutional due process and other

rights which Defendants violated through unprecedented, sweeping, and retroactive debarment of

Kaspersky Lab from U.S. Government information systems by way of the Department of

Homeland Security’s (“DHS”) Binding Operational Directive 17-01 issued on September 13,

2017 (the “BOD”).

Soo, what do we call a fake news faker?
Click to expand...
 
c3k said:
Misleading headline. Is [H] heading towards fake news? The lawsuit stems from an obama era ruling. This would more accurately state it is vs. the US government.
Click to expand...

If there is one scary thing about the current administration it's this:

A lot of followers of Trump have blindly accepted that any information that doesn't play into their narrative is unequivocally fake. All critical thinking out the window because of a few buzz words that don't fit the Trump agenda. Think about it for a second and there is nothing misleading about the headline and you know...try to read the article?

Disagree with Democrats and Republicans all you want but the flat out denial of facts that you don't like should never be the norm.
 
nutzo said:
Happened almost 2 months before Trump was elected, yet it's Trumps fault.

Please don't turn this site into another MSNBC or CNN.
Click to expand...

Politics likes the blame game.

It's simple logic: If the Obama admin made the decision, Kaspersky is suing Trump admin (because, you know...Obama isn't in office anymore...)

None of the headline is misleading. How can they sue the Obama administration? Should they go back in time? Don't let buzz words set you off.

Edit:
It would appear I bought into nutzo's incorrect version of the facts without validating them myself. September 2017 is well within the time of the Trump Admin as noted in the post he himself quoted.
 
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Sonicks said:
Politics likes the blame game.

It's simple logic: Obama admin made the decision, Kaspersky is suing Trump admin (because, you know...Obama isn't in office anymore...)

None of the headline is misleading. How can they sue the Obama administration? Should they go back in time? Don't let buzz words set you off.
Click to expand...

I read the filing. They are suing the Department of Homeland Security. It doesn't say 'Trump admin' anywhere on the filing. But I'm guessing an article that says the Trump admin is being sued gets more click than the DHS being sued.
 
nutzo said:
You can say the same about the last administration and their supporters.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it isn't.

The difference this time around is how vocal the president is and how much it plays into people's love of bravado and political incorrectness. Doesn't mean it's right either way but this time the notion of not thinking for one's self has got the official endorsement of the president.
 
SilverSliver said:
I read the filing. They are suing the Department of Homeland Security. It doesn't say 'Trump admin' anywhere on the filing. But I'm guessing an article that says the Trump admin is being sued gets more click than the DHS being sued.
Click to expand...

I found a source that you may appreciate:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...aspersky-lab-products-from-us-government.html

Could answer some of your questions. It would appear Trump had direct involvement with solidifying the ban on Kaspersky products within the government.

More info:
Homeland Security’sBinding Operational Directive 17-01 issued on September 13, 2017 (the “BOD”) was from acting secretary Elaine Duke who was nominated to that position by Trump himself on January 30th 2017.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...tification-of-issuance-of-binding-operational
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Duke

Still think the headline is misleading?
 
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cyberguyz said:
Russian paranoia is funny as hell to watch as it plays out. I really I wish Kaspersky luck with that.

IMHO as someone that does not live under the U.S. gooberment, I see no real difference between Kaspersky, Norton, McAfee or any other since I am not convinced that there is such a thing as an internet suckurity system that does not have back orifices that gooberment agencies can snoop in to their heart's content. Whether it is KGB, CIA, NSA, NDS, BND, MI6, CSIS or some other 3-4 character snoop agency.

Kaspersky works better on my system than 90% of the options originating closer to home.
Click to expand...


were they not caught (possibly offguard) with russian vulnerabilities? I think kaspersky is saying "we had a vulnerability but it was not intentional" . ... which puts them in an awkward spot for being a russian based company which is dumb in the first place for the government to trust for security software. however USA didn't ban cisco, microsoft etc who had dozens/hundreds of vulnerabilities exploited by the russians, chinese and north koreans.
 
otherweeb said:
Homeland Security’s (“DHS”) Binding Operational Directive 17-01 issued on September 13, 2017 (the “BOD”).
Click to expand...

nutzo said:
Happened almost 2 months before Trump was elected, yet it's Trumps fault.

Please don't turn this site into another MSNBC or CNN.
Click to expand...

September 2017 is 2 months prior to Trump being elected? Really?

Anyway, ultimately as someone else posted above, good luck as a business trying to take a government to court with your case being the government has to do business with you. If they succeed, I'm starting up a $100M per sheet of paper business and hiring their law firm.
 
Master_shake_ said:
CNN be like "is Donald Trump getting Russian antivirus companies to sue Obama? Yes and we'll tell you why at eleven"

Wasn't there some shred of truth to Kaspersky being tainted?
Click to expand...
The CIA has been working on its own ways of defeating it for some time according to the info provided by WikiLeaks earlier this year. If the CIA wants a way to break into it that bad, the software has a high likelihood of having a connection to the Russian government in some form.

That's two government agencies from two different countries that at the very least want a means of bypassing it. There is a possibility, albeit unconfirmed, that its already been defeated or has backdoors.
 
Yes.
"The Trump Administration" will not be listed anywhere in a lawsuit filed by Kaspersky. It will be "The US Government" or "Department of Homeland Security".

How is the Trump Administration being sued if they are not listed in the lawsuit?

In the Barack Hussein era, his name was NEVER associated with negativity. In the Trump era, the name "Trump" is only used if there is a negative context.

A bit of accuracy and consistency would eliminate the stench of bias from the media. If it's not too late for that. (Sorry. Posting this makes shivers run down my leg.)

Edited to add: I thought the Obama administration banned the use of Kaspersky products about 2 or 3 years ago. They may have been under investigation since 2004, but it was BHO who ordered their product off government computers.

I'll try to find the date.
 
Sonicks said:
Look up the term "Confirmation Bias".

Loved the Hussein bit, btw, that was a nice touch. (y)
Click to expand...

Confirmation Bias.

Tell me how many in-depth stories on Barack Hussein Obama (or Barry Soweto, your choice) did the media report while he was running for office? You know, where he grew up, girlfriends, drugs, college entrance scores/essays, major, friends in college, guiding figures, business deals, etc.

Now, tell the same about Trump.

Confirm your own bias.
 
Why does the order only target Kasperskky Labs and not all Russian antivirus/software? That doesn't make sense.
 
Seelenlos said:
So you refer to everyone by their full name. Do you also do that in person? Cause that would be more than a little odd.

I'm going to try this tomorrow at work.
Click to expand...
I agree. It's hard not to hear an agenda behind someone who speaks like this.
 
c3k said:
Confirmation Bias.

Tell me how many in-depth stories on Barack Hussein Obama (or Barry Soweto, your choice) did the media report while he was running for office? You know, where he grew up, girlfriends, drugs, college entrance scores/essays, major, friends in college, guiding figures, business deals, etc.

Now, tell the same about Trump.

Confirm your own bias.
Click to expand...

Either you didn’t look up “ confirmation bias” or you missed the point.

Your statement is an opinion that cannot objectively be substantiated in either agreeance or disagreeance precisely because of confirmation bias.

It’s not an argument.
 
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oROEchimaru said:
were they not caught (possibly offguard) with russian vulnerabilities? I think kaspersky is saying "we had a vulnerability but it was not intentional" . ... which puts them in an awkward spot for being a russian based company which is dumb in the first place for the government to trust for security software. however USA didn't ban cisco, microsoft etc who had dozens/hundreds of vulnerabilities exploited by the russians, chinese and north koreans.
Click to expand...

What I find is the most embarrassing point in all this is that U.S. intelligence agencies cannot cultivate enough specialists of their own to develop internal software for such services. As such I completely agree with your post and feel a deeper sense of shame for a government I desperately would like to be proud of.
 
thebufenator said:
Really intelligent post.

/Sarcasm
Click to expand...

I can't really tell what insinuation you're going for with that post. I guess that makes it a:

"Really intelligent post.

/Sarcasm"


... type of post.

At any rate, the extensively-proven exploitation of US software by US security services is a much greater threat to people living in North America than hypothetical infiltration by Russian security services.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-data
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterc...ss-how-u-s-snoops-on-your-skype/#785a0420484e
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ies-said-to-swap-data-with-thousands-of-firms
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data
http://fortune.com/2017/04/13/microsoft-fisa-requests/
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/11/17/us_military_spying_archive_exposed/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ocuments-reveal-CIA-hacked-Wi-Fi-routers.html
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...de-factory-show-cisco-router-getting-implant/
https://www.rt.com/news/379775-cia-weaponized-85pc-worlds-smartphones/
https://arstechnica.com/information...-nsa-hid-for-14-years-and-were-found-at-last/

 
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viscountalpha said:
Wasn't Kaspersky caught with stolen files that were improperly flagged? How is this even a case?

https://arstechnica.com/information...ms-kaspersky-helped-steal-secret-nsa-secrets/
Click to expand...

If Kaspersky's full protection is turned on, which is a user-configurable option, then samples of suspicious files are sent back to Kaspersky for analysis. Kaspersky has said that the files in question were sent to them because they were infected with malware from a pirated copy of Microsoft Office that was on the PC with those files.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/25/kaspersky_nsa_keygen_backdoor_office/


Timeline
On September 11, 2014, Kaspersky's software detected the Win32.GrayFish.gen trojan on the NSA staffer's PC. Some time after that, the employee disabled the antivirus to run an activation-key generator designed to unlock pirated copies of Microsoft Office 2013. The malicious executable was downloaded along with an ISO file of Office 2013.

As is so often the case with rogue key-gens, the software came with malware included, which was why the employee had to disable his AV. Fast forward to October 4, and Kaspersky's software was allowed to run again, and the fake key-gen tool's bundled malware, Win32.Mokes.hvl, which has been on the security shop's naughty list since 2013, was clocked by the defense software.

"To install and run this keygen, the user appears to have disabled the Kaspersky products on his machine," Kaspersky Lab said in its report.

"Our telemetry does not allow us to say when the antivirus was disabled, however, the fact that the keygen malware was later detected as running in the system suggests the antivirus had been disabled or was not running when the keygen was run. Executing the keygen would not have been possible with the antivirus enabled."

The user was warned his computer was infected, so he told the toolkit to scan and remove all threats. The antivirus duly deleted the Mokes malware, but also found several new types of NSA code – which appeared to be similar to the agency's Equation Group weapons that Kaspersky was already familiar with – which were pinged back to Russian servers for analysis.

According to the security firm's account, one of its researchers recognized that they had received some highly advanced malware, and reported the discovery to Kaspersky's CEO Eugene:

One of the files detected by the product as new variants of Equation APT malware was a 7zip archive.

The archive itself was detected as malicious and submitted to Kaspersky Lab for analysis, where it was processed by one of the analysts. Upon processing, the archive was found to contain multiple malware samples and source code for what appeared to be Equation malware.

After discovering the suspected Equation malware source code, the analyst reported the incident to the CEO. Following a request from the CEO, the archive was deleted from all our systems. The archive was not shared with any third parties.
Click to expand...

Kapsersky said it never received any more malware samples from that particularly user, and went public with its Equation Group findings in February 2015. It says that after that disclosure, it began to find more Equation Group malware samples in the same IP range as the original discovery – honeypots to snare whoever may have stolen copies of the cyber-weapons, presumably.

"These seem to have been configured as 'honeypots', each computer being loaded with various Equation-related samples," Kaspersky Lab said. "No unusual (non-executable) samples have been detected and submitted from these 'honeypots' and detections have not been processed in any special way."
 
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