Star Trek: Discovery Will Return on January 7th, 2018

griff30 said:
I torrented the first two episode to see if it was worth watching.
It isn't Star Trek. Not worth torrenting and definitely not worth $10 a month to stream.

If it aired on terrestrial broadcast TV, it would be cancelled by season 3.
Click to expand...

It gets more Star Trek like almost immediately after. Almost feels like the start of the Dominion War arc in DS9.
 
Not included on my already overpriced TV package and I'm not interested in paying for another streaming service to watch a single show.

I haven't heard good things about the series anyhow to justify paying to check it out.

I live Star Trek but this series is doomed.
 
NeoNemesis said:
This is quite literally what it means these days. The second you have a non-white character in a leading position in a movie / video game / TV series or whatever, the racists and misogynists crawl out of the woodwork and begin complaining.

The funny thing about all these complaints is that they're baseless. Michael's race and gender are irrelevant to the story, they haven't even been mentioned.
Click to expand...

CBS, as well as the cast and crew, made a HUGE deal about her race and gender though. A lot of the negative reaction early towards her came from all the bullshit spewed by people involved. Then they revealed her dumbass, fanfiction quality, backstory and that just made it worse. She's just a bad character period. Race and gender are irreverent, she is just completely unlikable. While the people casting and writing might not have had this big agenda in mind when making the show, but it sure as hell turned into when during marketing. CBS even went as far to make a big deal about her having a boy's name, something that I don't think many people even cared about until CBS brought it up.

The backlash against her, and the show, had nothing to do with people be racist or sexist (at least, in most cases). Stop pretending otherwise. The entire buildup to the launch focused on how "progressive" the show was and how "groundbreaking" Martin-Green as captain is, and all that bullshit. Shit like that is totally at odds with what Star Trek is. No one made a big deal about Janeway, no one made a big deal about Cisco. CBS cast them, put them out there, and let them prove themselves through the quality of their acting as well the quality of the writing and storytelling. Hell, Kate Mulgrew practically carried Voyager by herself quite often since the writing was rarely up to snuff.
 
NeoNemesis said:
It gets more Star Trek like almost immediately after. Almost feels like the start of the Dominion War arc in DS9.
Click to expand...

DS9 was great, but there were whiners that had the same complaints about DS9 as they do now about Discovery: It wasn't Star Trek because it was too dark, and didn't follow Roddenberry's Utopian outlook. IMO the Utopian crap made TNG the most unrealistic Trek, because humans are too fucked up to ever create or live in a Utopia. So no way do I wan't to see more Utopian drivel.

IMO DS9 was the best Star Trek series by a wide margin, and Discovery is closest in tone to DS9. It had a rough couple of initial episodes but it has already found it's footing. Most other Trek took a couple of seasons before it got good.
 
NeoNemesis said:
So many whiners.

I wasn't born when the original series came out but I'll bet my bottom dollar people said the same damn thing back then too.

The show itself is fine. It isn't as good as TNG, but it's certainly better than Enterprise.
Click to expand...

I did not care for it. I wish they had spent more money on acting talent and less on effects. The lead is a doofus, the admiral can't even speak. It's sad. Even the most anemic ST series has amazing pivotal characters. This show has characters you could not care less about. It's a shitty show, comparing it to the other series is a huge mistake in my view. Let it be something other than star trek then it can be some mediocre space opera and we are all fine with it. So many whiners thining
Ultima99 said:
I'll agree that there are some good stories mixed in there, but the pilot Farpoint was awful IMO as was Dr Crusher in S1. Then in S2 I thought Dr Pulaski was just terrible. When Crusher came back in S3 she was much better.
Click to expand...

TNG at its worst was still something I wish I had today. I have watched even the terrible episodes a lot lol
 
Snowdog said:
DS9 was great, but there were whiners that had the same complaints about DS9 as they do now about Discovery: It wasn't Star Trek because it was too dark, and didn't follow Roddenberry's Utopian outlook. IMO the Utopian crap made TNG the most unrealistic Trek, because humans are too fucked up to ever create or live in a Utopia. So no way do I wan't to see more Utopian drivel.

IMO DS9 was the best Star Trek series by a wide margin, and Discovery is closest in tone to DS9. It had a rough couple of initial episodes but it has already found it's footing. Most other Trek took a couple of seasons before it got good.
Click to expand...

I remember people calling DS9 a soap opera because it focused on the personal live of the characters. I didn't hear a lot of complains about it being too dark until much later. My circle of Trek watchers just hated that it wasn't on a starship. So I ended up being the only one that watched it all the time and ended up loving it. DS9 has gotten a lot of love in the last several years though, I think people decided to take another look at it and realized just how good it was. I'd say DS9 ended up being the most consistently good Trek series from beginning to end. It had some bad episodes and the ending was a big of a mess, but it never had a bad season and the lead up to the finale was excellent.
 
Derangel said:
CBS, as well as the cast and crew, made a HUGE deal about her race and gender though. A lot of the negative reaction early towards her came from all the bullshit spewed by people involved. Then they revealed her dumbass, fanfiction quality, backstory and that just made it worse. She's just a bad character period. Race and gender are irreverent, she is just completely unlikable. While the people casting and writing might not have had this big agenda in mind when making the show, but it sure as hell turned into when during marketing. CBS even went as far to make a big deal about her having a boy's name, something that I don't think many people even cared about until CBS brought it up.

The backlash against her, and the show, had nothing to do with people be racist or sexist (at least, in most cases). Stop pretending otherwise. The entire buildup to the launch focused on how "progressive" the show was and how "groundbreaking" Martin-Green as captain is, and all that bullshit. Shit like that is totally at odds with what Star Trek is. No one made a big deal about Janeway, no one made a big deal about Cisco. CBS cast them, put them out there, and let them prove themselves through the quality of their acting as well the quality of the writing and storytelling. Hell, Kate Mulgrew practically carried Voyager by herself quite often since the writing was rarely up to snuff.
Click to expand...

First off, Martin-Green isn't the captain. The fact that you've made that error leads me to believe that you've never seen the show, which makes me wonder how you could possibly know that she is a bad character. I'll admit that her backstory is a bit hokey, but it was clearly done in an effort to tie it more closely with the rest of the ST universe.

I've made a list of everything progressive in the show below for you to look over:

1) There is a black female crew member who is a sort of Spock/Worf hybrid character in terms of her personality.
2) There is a gay couple.

That's it.
 
dwd999 said:
From what I remember, TOS spoke of the Eugenics wars and Khan, and the DS9 series pretty firmly established that there was a devastating world war in the 21st century. This led to the post war setting that we see in the 8th movie First Contact, which then ends with a new age due to meeting the Vulcans. This later evolved in the Enterprise series, where there's one episode exploring the need for what eventually became the Prime Directive. Although TOS wasn't perfect, they still had the ideals of the Federation, which seem to be missing in Discovery. It seems like Discovery is being set up as a war time only series, with the start of the Klingon war and the siege mentality. This is darker than TOS and Next Generation, although somewhat similar to the DS9 wartime of the Dominion war. But there's definitely less emphasis on Federation ideals than TOS.
Click to expand...
No, it's a single ship that's doing that at this point and it's a case of the Klingons attacking the Federation. A quick search on google shows that we'd been in conflict with the Klingons since sometime in the 2200's and all out war occurred in 2267.

I'm sorry, but this is not in conflict with what we saw on TOS or the movies in the TOS universe.

For reference: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Human-Klingon_history (and no I'm not an expert on this stuff, but this page seems to reenforce my memory of the TOS universe.
 
Derangel said:
CBS, as well as the cast and crew, made a HUGE deal about her race and gender though. A lot of the negative reaction early towards her came from all the bullshit spewed by people involved. Then they revealed her dumbass, fanfiction quality, backstory and that just made it worse. She's just a bad character period. Race and gender are irreverent, she is just completely unlikable. While the people casting and writing might not have had this big agenda in mind when making the show, but it sure as hell turned into when during marketing. CBS even went as far to make a big deal about her having a boy's name, something that I don't think many people even cared about until CBS brought it up.

The backlash against her, and the show, had nothing to do with people be racist or sexist (at least, in most cases). Stop pretending otherwise. The entire buildup to the launch focused on how "progressive" the show was and how "groundbreaking" Martin-Green as captain is, and all that bullshit. Shit like that is totally at odds with what Star Trek is. No one made a big deal about Janeway, no one made a big deal about Cisco. CBS cast them, put them out there, and let them prove themselves through the quality of their acting as well the quality of the writing and storytelling. Hell, Kate Mulgrew practically carried Voyager by herself quite often since the writing was rarely up to snuff.
Click to expand...

Agreed, we are not racist or sexist, I would give my left ball for Geordi or Worf or Cisko or Dr Crusher etc. I haven't seen much of their work outside of the two discovery episodes I saw but those two made me sad. I hope beyond hope it is like those other shows at some point. They were magical shows.

They were wooden, sterile, boring, not dynamic, they just sucked. I personally hated the Klingons too but at least they wanted you to not like them. That is a completely different long winded discussion I could have.
 
farscapesg1 said:
I'm actually enjoying both Discovery and Orville. The difference is I'm not one of those nut jobs that needs everything to follow canon or be like the previous shows :p I also don't follow creator or producer comments, keep up with show social media posts, etc. I tune into the shows and watch them for themselves and then move on.
With that said, I like the darker side of Discovery. I always felt ST in general was way too "pie in the sky".
Click to expand...
Discovery feels a bit like DS9 in that respect....then again, I really didn't think TOS was as idealized as some seem to think...that was TNG.
 
NeoNemesis said:
First off, Martin-Green isn't the captain. The fact that you've made that error leads me to believe that you've never seen the show, which makes me wonder how you could possibly know that she is a bad character. I'll admit that her backstory is a bit hokey, but it was clearly done in an effort to tie it more closely with the rest of the ST universe.

I've made a list of everything progressive in the show below for you to look over:

1) There is a black female crew member who is a sort of Spock/Worf hybrid character in terms of her personality.
2) There is a gay couple.

That's it.
Click to expand...

I didn't even notice a gay couple, in episode one and two. I saw them both, was it something they just kind of glanced over maybe?
 
5icko said:
Horrible show. Couldn't get past the second episode.

Predictable, shallow, canned, and chalk full of SJW horse shit.

Oh, and the denture clattering of the captain is just mind numbing. How she even manages to keep them from falling out is something of a miracle.
Click to expand...
IOW, you have no idea what the show is about, because that captain is dead.
 
NeoNemesis said:
This is quite literally what it means these days. The second you have a non-white character in a leading position in a movie / video game / TV series or whatever, the racists and misogynists crawl out of the woodwork and begin complaining.

The funny thing about all these complaints is that they're baseless. Michael's race and gender are irrelevant to the story, they haven't even been mentioned.
Click to expand...
Technically her race is mentioned...human race....that and her being raised as a Vulcan. ;)

griff30 said:
I torrented the first two episode to see if it was worth watching.
It isn't Star Trek. Not worth torrenting and definitely not worth $10 a month to stream.

If it aired on terrestrial broadcast TV, it would be cancelled by season 3.
Click to expand...
So it'd do as well as the much loved TOS.
 
NeoNemesis said:
My absolute favorite scene from DS9, possibly Star Trek in general.

Click to expand...


So much of the ST shows were completely outside their weight class. Great scene which I had forgotten completely. I loved how you liked all the characters even the bad ones you ended up wanting to see. Geniuses writing that show. 47 years old and I feel like a 5 year old with my lunch juice and a blanky when I see that show!
 
Derangel said:
I remember people calling DS9 a soap opera because it focused on the personal live of the characters. I didn't hear a lot of complains about it being too dark until much later. My circle of Trek watchers just hated that it wasn't on a starship. So I ended up being the only one that watched it all the time and ended up loving it. DS9 has gotten a lot of love in the last several years though, I think people decided to take another look at it and realized just how good it was. I'd say DS9 ended up being the most consistently good Trek series from beginning to end. It had some bad episodes and the ending was a big of a mess, but it never had a bad season and the lead up to the finale was excellent.
Click to expand...
I did. It was too dark adn went against the vision of Gene. Oh and it was a space station not a ship.
 
Aireoth said:
There is a difference, ToS didn't really ram it down your throut in a ham fisted manner.

When the agenda is being pushed over quality of plot, characters, and acting, its a problem.

I gave up after 4 episodes, might revisit in a year on a boring sunday.
Click to expand...

Man you're just wrong. You need to look at the show through the lens of when it aired. When it was running, those things you think are so minor now, really weren't then. We just have a bunch of crybabies who will whine about even the smallest thing.
 
NeoNemesis said:
First off, Martin-Green isn't the captain. The fact that you've made that error leads me to believe that you've never seen the show, which makes me wonder how you could possibly know that she is a bad character. I'll admit that her backstory is a bit hokey, but it was clearly done in an effort to tie it more closely with the rest of the ST universe.

I've made a list of everything progressive in the show below for you to look over:

1) There is a black female crew member who is a sort of Spock/Worf hybrid character in terms of her personality.
2) There is a gay couple.

That's it.
Click to expand...

They didn't have to do that to tie it to the rest of the universe though. It's not a hokey backstory, its complete and utter horse shit. Its some writer's self-insert fanfiction. You tie to the rest of the universe simply through quality writing and making the series feel like part of the universe. You can't force something to be part of a universe simply be making painfully stupid connections between characters. It makes it feel fake and like the writers were desperate or like they had no confidence in Michael being her own character.
 
gulguran said:
I didn't even notice a gay couple, in episode one and two. I saw them both, was it something they just kind of glanced over maybe?
Click to expand...

No, they weren't introduced in the pilot. Only two characters actually make the transition from the Shenzhou to the Discovery.

Derangel said:
They didn't have to do that to tie it to the rest of the universe though. It's not a hokey backstory, its complete and utter horse shit. Its some writer's self-insert fanfiction. You tie to the rest of the universe simply through quality writing and making the series feel like part of the universe. You can't force something to be part of a universe simply be making painfully stupid connections between characters. It makes it feel fake and like the writers were desperate or like they had no confidence in Michael being her own character.
Click to expand...

Okay, I disagree but that's a valid opinion, but it has nothing to do with the SJW nonsense that so many people seem to be harping on.
 
percydaman said:
Man you're just wrong. You need to look at the show through the lens of when it aired. When it was running, those things you think are so minor now, really weren't then. We just have a bunch of crybabies who will whine about even the smallest thing.
Click to expand...
Indeed. As I recall, some stations didn't air the episode when Kirk and Uhuru kissed and the character of Uhuru itself was revolutionary and insanely progressive. People that liked the older stuff, because they weren't ideologues when they were younger.
 
bigdogchris said:
DSC is pretty good. Worth watching each week but I still wished they did something post VOY.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. If there is one complaint that can be made about the series its that it's sandwiched between ENT and TOS which means that nothing they do can really impact the ST universe in any meaningful way.
 
bigdogchris said:
DSC is pretty good. Worth watching each week but I still wished they did something post VOY.
Click to expand...

I will say one thing for the series: The design of everything is beautiful. CBS clearly put a lot of money into the show and put some incredibly talented people on the art, character, makeup, and costume design teams.
 
NeoNemesis said:
This is quite literally what it means these days. The second you have a non-white character in a leading position in a movie / video game / TV series or whatever, the racists and misogynists crawl out of the woodwork and begin complaining.

The funny thing about all these complaints is that they're baseless. Michael's race and gender are irrelevant to the story, they haven't even been mentioned.
Click to expand...

no one complained about the Exorcist. (older gay with an onscreen gay kiss, latino, oriental) It's about how you do it. Do it well like the Exorcist, you get praised or no one bates an eye. Do it like ST-D, you get condemned. Same as the Wire, 'the Night Of', Black Mirror...

Michael is designed to be butch, with a hoodlum attitude, irrational, rash, dangerously insubordinate. All which would never see a candidate even pass the Academy but she's here because of SJW's rhetoric on race (black only. They don't care about the rest) and gender identity (LBGT only.They don't care about the rest). Too late now to retcon her character
 
Last edited:
I really can't believe that people are using the SJW is why it sucks. Star Trek was always about that shit.

Know why it's not that great? The lead actress is just not likable. That's it. Her acting is meh. The character is meh. Her whole story from the beginning was butchered. Matter fact I would go as far as to say I really don't like any of the characters. Christ the fat room mate chick is damn near face palming bad in every aspect.
 
I watch both the Orville and Discovery. At this point in the seaon I look forward to Discovery episodes the most. It's just better "sci-fi" than Orville. Too bad it's been demoted to CBS Online, which most people will never pay for, or even know how to watch (as very few TV's can stream from CBS's service out-of-the-box).
 
Gmok Bonecrusha said:
I really can't believe that people are using the SJW is why it sucks. Star Trek was always about that shit.

Know why it's not that great? The lead actress is just not likable. That's it. Her acting is meh. The character is meh. Her whole story from the beginning was butchered. Matter fact I would go as far as to say I really don't like any of the characters. Christ the fat room mate chick is damn near face palming bad in every aspect.
Click to expand...

This. The lack of likable characters is why I gave up on this show. It's not that the main character is black or a woman. It's not that the show has openly gay characters. It's that they're all annoying, douchebags, or both. I just don't like anyone on this show.
 
Cmdrmonkey said:
This. The lack of likable characters is why I gave up on this show. It's not that the main character is black or a woman. It's not that the show has openly gay characters. It's that they're all annoying, douchebags, or both. I just don't like anyone on this show.
Click to expand...

Sadly they killed off the one character I liked. Michelle Yeoh's character was great. She played off everyone well and was able to carry the bad writing. Yeoh could have been the Janeway for Discovery. An actress capable of carrying the bad parts of a series while allowing the good moments to shine. Yeoh deserves to be far more well known than she is.
 
cocheese256 said:
Another Star Trek, and Dark Matter gets cancelled.
Click to expand...

Luckily Killjoys survived the cancellation axe this time around. I'm disappointed about Dark Matter though, it finally started getting good again. Also I seem to enjoy The Orville much more than this new "Trek" show as it's got just the right amount of humor and old Trek qualities too it. The latest episode with the blue guy banging both Mercer and Grayson
was awesome.
 
DS9 was OK depending on what they were doing at the time. Quark and Garak were awesome while the religious prophet crap, Kai Wynn, and Pah Wraiths were not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jh24
like this
I've been very much enjoying Discovery. Orville is... ok. I have seen episodes, but don't feel any real compulsion to ssek it out when it airs or DVR it.

Of course I should mention that the last truly good Trek I've seen was TOS and Star Trek VI. Everything TNG and after just seemed to latch on to a few TOS cues and go completely overboard with them while kind of just letting the "raw and genuine" feel of TOS stagnate. All the newer shows until Discovery just felt wildly unbalanced and IMHO suffered for it. I watch the newer Treks, they can be entertaining - but they never earned the devotion I have for TOS.
 
Ultima99 said:
DS9 was OK depending on what they were doing at the time. Quark and Garak were awesome while the religious prophet crap, Kai Wynn, and Pah Wraiths were not.
Click to expand...

The prophet stuff had its ups and downs, I think the real problem with that came towards the end of the series. They kept Dukat around far too long and he really added nothing of value to the end of the series. The entire prophecy just became a huge mess at the end.
 
Just an FYI: DS9 was airing alongside another Sci-Fi called Babylon 5. Maybe you've heard of it. It was eating DS9's lunch so badly that they started the Dominion War in order to try to infuse enough action for it to compete with B-5.
 
theBrownLlama said:
no one complained about the Exorcist. (older gay with an onscreen gay kiss, latino, oriental) It's about how you do it. Do it well like the Exorcist, you get praised or no one bates an eye. Do it like ST-D, you get condemned. Same as the Wire, 'the Night Of', Black Mirror...

Michael is designed to be butch, with a hoodlum attitude, irrational, rash, dangerously insubordinate. All which would never see a candidate even pass the Academy but she's here because of SJW's rhetoric on race (black only. They don't care about the rest) and gender identity (LBGT only.They don't care about the rest). Too late now to retcon her character
Click to expand...
So Gay bad, because they didn't do it in a way that theBrownLlama approves of. And you disapprove of Michael because she was insubordinate in one specific contact (albeit the first you see). Can I assume that you hate James T. "I cheated on the the kobayashi maru" Kirk who ignored orders whenever it suited him and his insubordination eventually got him demoted, or is it OK for him to do it, because he's straight white guy? Asking for a friend.
 
daringx said:
I watch both the Orville and Discovery. At this point in the seaon I look forward to Discovery episodes the most. It's just better "sci-fi" than Orville. Too bad it's been demoted to CBS Online, which most people will never pay for, or even know how to watch (as very few TV's can stream from CBS's service out-of-the-box).
Click to expand...
I agree with it being a pay stream. It'd be different if CBS had a lot of new content, but unless you watch Big Brother all the time, they've got ST and at some point they'll bring back The Good Fight. That's not a $10/month service. I'll pick up the rest of the series sometime next year or maybe I'll be in Europe again and I'll just grab it on Netflix.
 
Derangel said:
Sadly they killed off the one character I liked. Michelle Yeoh's character was great. She played off everyone well and was able to carry the bad writing. Yeoh could have been the Janeway for Discovery. An actress capable of carrying the bad parts of a series while allowing the good moments to shine. Yeoh deserves to be far more well known than she is.
Click to expand...
1. Voyager is arguably the worst Trek series (though Enterprise was pretty awful too). Mulgrew did what she could, but she was essentially Gilligan on a star ship. "We can get home" "No prime directive we must stay". Happened way too many times. 7/9 made it somewhat better, but it was horribly inconsistent.
2. Yeoh's character could not be on this show, unless she was written as someone else. The entire premise is that this ship and captain are on the edge protecting the Federation from the Klingons (and perhaps other bad guys). Yeoh's character is dead, because she thought she could work with the Klingons. Michael knew they couldn't. Had she listened to Michael, she'd still be alive.
 
Madoc said:
Just an FYI: DS9 was airing alongside another Sci-Fi called Babylon 5. Maybe you've heard of it. It was eating DS9's lunch so badly that they started the Dominion War in order to try to infuse enough action for it to compete with B-5.
Click to expand...
More likely that it was because RD Moore joined the writing crew and Pillar left, leaving Behr in charge (and the show largley ignored by Dr. Evil...er Rick Berman) The Dominion was being setup as early as S2 and the dominion was slowly being built into a major arc by S3. As for B5 kicking it's ass, it got 5 seasons and DS9 got 7. What's more, according to RD Moore, DS9 could have gone 1 or 2 more seasons but Berman felt that if it wasn't there, Voyager would do better (but Voyager's horrible writing led to a huge number of bad filler episodes).
 
nilepez said:
1. Voyager is arguably the worst Trek series (though Enterprise was pretty awful too). Mulgrew did what she could, but she was essentially Gilligan on a star ship. "We can get home" "No prime directive we must stay". Happened way too many times. 7/9 made it somewhat better, but it was horribly inconsistent.
2. Yeoh's character could not be on this show, unless she was written as someone else. The entire premise is that this ship and captain are on the edge protecting the Federation from the Klingons (and perhaps other bad guys). Yeoh's character is dead, because she thought she could work with the Klingons. Michael knew they couldn't. Had she listened to Michael, she'd still be alive.
Click to expand...

1. Its hard to call whether Voyager or Enterprise was worse. Enterprise had two entire bad seasons and part of a 3rd, while every season of Voyager ended up just being okay or average with a lot of good and bad mixed in. Enterprise had the better finale, even though that show really should have been allowed to continue on. I think I'd give a slight edge to Voyager, just on the strength of its captain. I like Scott Bakula, but he struggled to make Archer work and really didn't succeed until season 3. Mulgrew was Janeway from the get go. She felt like a Starfleet captain. The writing for her was abysmal far too often, but I can't say I ever felt she feel to Archer's level of incompetence. Beyond that, its a complete toss-up. 7 of 9 was a much needed addition to Voyager, even if the show did manage to completely ruin the Borg before it finally, mercifully, ended.

2. If the writers wanted to they could have found a way to keep Yeoh around. However, the plot demanded that she needed to die in order to serve Michael's development and the overarching story itself. I don't blame the writers for killing her off, the character made mistakes and there were consequences. Its just a pity that she was the only character I really liked from the Shenzou crew and that she played off the rest of the cast so well. Martin-Green isn't a bad actress, I think she's trying her best to make Michael work, but Yeoh is a commanding presence. From moment one it feels like it should be her show.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top