Amazon Offers Prime Discount to Those on Government Benefits

Let me see if I've got this straight, because you're presumably legitimately disabled, you've got to defend welfare for the able bodied, is that right?

How about this, I think the disabled don't get enough help, largely because so many of the available social welfare resources go to those who are perfectly capable of working, but prefer not to.

Probably truth in that last statement. And no i'm not disabled -anymore- and due to my loss of job over this I pretty much have to start a new career, and will be beginning that training soon. I'm not defending it for able people, but you have been blanket attacking everyone, including those who have been like me, don't act like you weren't. And you certainly don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
You, I actually despise the entitlement of the 'hard working group' more than the laziness of the non-working group.

My stance is indifferent. Amazon is making money off of this move, they are not the benevolent company people make them out to be. They are getting more shoppers by doing this and are getting more press by doing so.

I have known people to exploit our government programs and some who would have starved to death without them. Step back 50ft and it can be hard to see the difference, especially when people have to look over the top of their smartphones to see what others are buying with food stamp cards.

I would rather have more people who need help than people in the middle class wishing others would just starve.

Some people just havent had to experience getting laid off or losing your comforts in life and having to start back over. Tell me again how you survive on your own collecting a paycheck from someone else? (not you personally, just a general statement)

I'm really not sure what you just said, sorry.
 
Funny, you think able bodied people would 'starve' without EBT, while millions of often illiterate, unskilled illegal aliens manage to not only survive, but make enough excess to send back a hefty sum to their home countries.

Contempt for the bourgeois working family, who get shafted by leftist billionaires and their corporation at one end, while footing a disproportionate share of the bill for the scammers at the other end.

That is nothing of what I said, are you just randomly quoting people and spouting your anger?
 
I'm really not sure what you just said, sorry.

Sorry, my grammar might have been off, typing at work.

Basically was saying I despise the entitlement of the middle class more than the exploiting of the lazy.
 
Absolutely no reason for anyone to get their panties in a wad over this.
It sure beats the normal things the poor get like lead in their tap water.

That's BS. Why do I have to pay for the lead in my tap water while they get it for free? Fucking entitled bastards.

I miss lead. That made me a nice strong boy when I was a kid. I remember washing my hands with leaded gas back in the day (good solvent and cleaned the grease off). Chewing on cheap toys with lead paint. Being born in the 70's had it's benefits. So, I look like Sloth... Decent trade off for the fun I had.


What about churches helping out poor folks? They already get tax breaks. They pay people's bills because those people spent their money on the devils lettuce.
 
Probably truth in that last statement. And no i'm not disabled -anymore- and due to my loss of job over this I pretty much have to start a new career, and will be beginning that training soon. I'm not defending it for able people, but you have been blanket attacking everyone, including those who have been like me, don't act like you weren't. And you certainly don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

You have that exactly backwards. I've never said there weren't situations where assistance isn't warranted. In fact, I specifically said temporary help for the able bodied experiencing a hardship is warranted (what excuse is there for them to be exempted from being in work or work training though?). The legitimately disabled and non-Medicaid entitled incapacitated elderly should get much more assistance than they do.

Unfortunately the formula for maximum benefits in this country is to have as many children as possible, all with behavioral problems diagnosed with mental disabilities, and the father not in the household. That dynamic is often generational, which is a tragedy for the children in particular. Even WaPo reported that some parents will discourage their children from learning, so they can be classified as disabled. It's a sick cycle, and I really don't think it would be difficult to sort out, but other, political considerations are driving the current situation.
 
So Amazon taking the money for people buying food and other household items is an abuse of those benefits? What about when Walmart does the same thing? Amazon is essentially trying to take those lower-rung customers from Walmart, and that's all this is. A price war between Amazon and Walmart for that market will HELP those people in the long run, by driving down the prices even more and letting those people get more for their limited money.

Consider it this way...some mother on WIC needs a huge box of diapers. She can either pay for the gas, bus or whatever, take the kids to Walmart, buy her $20 in diapers and then use gas, take the bus or whatever to get home. Or she can spend $20 on diapers at Amazon, and $2 for her Prime membership, and not have to make that trip or spend money on gas/transportation.

Or consider people on these programs because they're injured, sick or otherwise unable to move around. This would be a lifesaver.

Yes there are people who abuse these programs, and yes those people are assholes. But remember the NON asshole people too when you're passing judgement.

Thats a whole lot of words you typed there, but I didn't say anything about abuse or anything else for that mater...all I pointed out was the fact that your statement about tax dollars is wrong.
 
You have that exactly backwards. I've never said there weren't situations where assistance isn't warranted. In fact, I specifically said temporary help for the able bodied experiencing a hardship is warranted (what excuse is there for them to be exempted from being in work or work training though?). The legitimately disabled and non-Medicaid entitled incapacitated elderly should get much more assistance than they do.

Unfortunately the formula for maximum benefits in this country is to have as many children as possible, all with behavioral problems diagnosed with mental disabilities, and the father not in the household. That dynamic is often generational, which is a tragedy for the children in particular. Even WaPo reported that some parents will discourage their children from learning, so they can be classified as disabled. It's a sick cycle, and I really don't think it would be difficult to sort out, but other, political considerations are driving the current situation.

Sadly true.

The system isn't tiered so you either get everything or nothing. In many cases it makes more sense to stay on the system than to get a job because the system pays more than minimum wage (which is a huge problem imo).

I had a friend that was on it for a while, they made her go through 'employment classes' which were 40hrs a week. So she had to go to those classes and somehow in there, apply for jobs, which many jobs were open the hours she was in class. Plus child care only covered her for the time in the class so after that she had to grab her kids and go to places to apply with the kids in tow.

So bascially for that two week period you really do nothing useful except apply for jobs online and hope they don't ask you for an interview because no-showing to the class was grounds for benefit cancellation.

It is a really poorly setup system at best.


Also knew someone that got a raise at a coffee shop and it cost her her health benefits and school benefits, so overall that 70cent raise cost her almost 10k a year. smdh
 
Man if a company wants to use tax payer funded land to plop a pipeline on it's just capitalism doing it's thing, but a company wants to provide a discount on it's services to people funded by the government they're worthless shit bag. Why do you care? Amazon is a corporation. They made a business decision.

And some of you, as usual, are DELIGHTFULLY basking in ignorance. This could go on a bit because ya'll hit lots of buttons:

1. Drug testing, when done on welfare users, has been below the national average. Yes, some use. Less than "normals". It costs more to test them routinely than it would to be to recoup that money. And guess what, take that money away, and they'll just rob a liquor store, end up in prison, and you'll pay MORE for them to live there. Sophie's choice.

2. MOST welfare recipient households ARE EMPLOYED. But they jobs don't pay shit and you can't feed a family if one person loses their job in a minimum wage household. You're screwed. https://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2015/04/13/get-a-job-most-welfare-recipients-already-have-one/

3. I worked with disabled adults for over a decade. A LOT OF THEM can't drive due to their condition. And the town I was in had next to zero transportation options. The options they DID have were medical transport that billed Medicaid $100 round trip. I guess that makes better sense for your money than them ordering a box of Fruit Loops off Amazon with free shipping.

4. It costs MONEY to work. If you have kids, child care is insanely expensive. So that's half or more of your paycheck. If you need a car, you need insurance, and gas. Good jobs don't just exist in the hood. you have to drive them. You might work two jobs and have zero time to get to a grocery store. This would be a godsend for you.

4. Sometimes life just sucks. I haven't personally been unemployed a day in my life since I was 15 years old, I've worked full time since I was 18. My wife is not so fortunate. We lost a pregnancy and she had serious complications from it and has never really recovered fully. While she's not a paraplegic, she has regular hospital visits, needs frequent days off, and her stamina limits her to about 3-4 hours of activity at a stretch. Find me a fucking job that will hire someone like that. She tried. 2 years later we're desperately trying to get government disability after losing our house and downsizing to a "manufactured home" so we could take care of in medical bills. Sometimes you can do everything right and still be screwed. Not everyone is trying to milk the teet, some of us get forced into situations beyond our control. We do A LOT of our shopping on Amazon because it's the only way she can really be involved in shopping right now and our shithole living situation is not convenient to any grocery stores. I'm sure plenty of people who aren't fortunate enough to have a working spouse to cover 99% of things would be completely screwed.


I get you guys see LaChalupa and her 35 kids trading a her food stamps for crack rocks and shake your head and go "Look at my dollars going to waste!"

But you don't see the MILLIONS of other people feeding their families, continuing to work, and barely keeping it all together with the scraps we give them.

Is it an ideal solution? Hell no. In an ideal world labor would be valued enough for this shit not to happen and there'd be enough good jobs we COULD legitimately expect these people to all work and pay for themselves.

But that's not the reality in our country right now. Doubt it ever was, and ever will be.
 
Primepantry is the Amazon grocery section which is indeed prime only. Also, super saver shipping doesn't completely cover the range of Prime items. Paying for shipping fees adds up very quickly.
good point, I didn't consider Prime pantry....
 
Thats a whole lot of words you typed there, but I didn't say anything about abuse or anything else for that mater...all I pointed out was the fact that your statement about tax dollars is wrong.

My point was that Amazon was not spending your tax dollars to provide these discounts. And the people who are buying the membership, are using the tax dollars to buy things they ARE expected to buy with those governement-tax-dollar-funded benefits. So there's no abuse of tax dollars here. To add on to that, people who use these programs also frequently have other income, and use the WIC/SNAP stuff to supplement their income. So every dollar they spend at Amazon is not necessarily a "tax dollar".
 
Those who berate others for being on welfare typically have not experienced any kind of financial hardship in their lives or had a dead-end job with no available opportunities and a family or sick relative to support. I find it disheartening that people rag on those who need assistance as if the only possible reason that they're poor is because they're doing everything they possibly can to avoid working. There are many reasons folks could need these programs, disability, temporary injuries that may or may not be their fault, single parents who have a job and kids to support and still cant make ends meet due to an inability to find employment that pays a living wage. You could even argue that a person's level of schooling or job experience plays a part, and not everyone had the fortune of having a good intermediate schooling experience / training, or can afford additional schooling. Its not like people on unemployment are getting top tier and well-paying jobs either.

At the end of the day these people still need to buy things from time to time. Just because they're poor does not mean that they've been given a break from all the responsibilities that their landlords, jobs, and family put upon them such as basic upkeep, repair, safety, and cleaning. Also, said people need to buy clothes and other things in order to keep their jobs in the first place. Depending on where you live and what you do, these things can be expensive, especially if you work in physically demanding or dirty jobs. And what about those who need babysitting services so that they -can- work. Programs like SNAP tend to be based on your gross monthly income and dont always take into account those types of necessary expenses. Id bet that more than half the people here who are angry at those receiving some kind of welfare probably couldnt make heads or tails out of SNAP: https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligibility

Additionally, consider that ontop of being poor and being unable to afford the education and luxuries of those around you in order to keep up with social circles, people actively belittle and look down on you as if you're the scourge of the earth and have personally insulted them in some way just by existing. As a single example; old, faded, or repaired clothing that less-fortunate or wealthy folk tend to wear often makes others wary of being around them as if they're carrying some kind of contagious disease, causing them to be less likely to make friends (a support group) which leads to even fewer growth and or job opportunities. Why would an employer hire someone who might not be able to reliably afford transportation to always make it to the job on time or clothing to look like a respectful representative of said company? Hint: Usually they wont.

Theres nothing easy or lazy about being poor, you often have to work twice as long and or hard to make ends meet than someone who has a decent job, and you're often in a situation that makes doing so even more difficult. The paperwork involved in getting such assistance tends to be long and confusing, the additional meetings and programs you're required to attend also take up precious and often limited time and or resources for travel, and then you have to make corrections whenever they change something or make mistakes. Being poor isnt a cakewalk like the majority of belittlers think, and receiving benefits isnt tantamount to 'I spent all my money on a smart phone so now I want you to feed me.' Try considering a situation with some critical thinking before judging everyone under the same umbrella.
 
I don't see Amazon as passing the cost of this on to their other customers. They're going to eat the cost and possibly get some tax breaks and advertising out of it. Plus getting a bunch more people hooked on Amazon Prime.

Why should there be ANY controls on the access? Unlike the government, Amazon has no mandate to ensure their dollars are spent wisely. If Amazon wanted to just give away bags of cash to people, they could. Realistically, this is Amazon trying to grab money from Walmart and the like.


Similar here.

So I'm Amazon, I'm going to offer this service, remember part of the cost for normal users is my company's profit margin, how much? A good percent is profit. But how much can I claim as a contribution and receive a tax break on?

Does it increase my numbers of users for Amazon Streaming?

Does it increase sales volumes on goods?

Does it give me better pricing on all my shipping?

I am sure there are other advantages I'm not even seeing.

One thing I am pretty sure of, this is a business move intended to create profit and advantage for Amazon. Any good Samaritan benefits are a side effect incidental to Amazon's purpose.
 
good point, I didn't consider Prime pantry....

In reply to the other comment, SNAP will continue regardless of whether Amazon does this or not. We can debate on the merits and shortcomings of SNAP, but assuming that households that currently get SNAP will still get SNAP, this is coming from Amazon's pocket. I haven't seen anything about Amazon getting tax breaks because of this - that's a whole other discussion, of course.

But Amazon's motives aside, people who are benefiting from this spend $6 a month for at-your-door delivery of boxes of everything from non-perishable food to detergent. That's less than two trips' gas money to a suburban Walmart. Heck, I live alone and in a metropolitan area, and Prime pantry is still a really big money saver.
 
Those who berate others for being on welfare typically have not experienced any kind of financial hardship in their lives or had a dead-end job with no available opportunities and a family or sick relative to support...........................

I bet the study is an interesting read, mind sharing the link oh learned one?
 
Man if a company wants to use tax payer funded land to plop a pipeline on it's just capitalism doing it's thing, but a company wants to provide a discount on it's services to people funded by the government they're worthless shit bag. Why do you care? Amazon is a corporation. They made a business decision.

Snipped the formulaic SJW, unsubstantiated claims.

But that's not the reality in our country right now. Doubt it ever was, and ever will be.

So, how do you explain 14 million+ illegal aliens housing and feeding themselves, providing their own transportation, and in many cases prospering, without access to the myriad of welfare programs? Many of these people don't even have the advantage of being able to speak English to a functional degree.

And of course, you are an advocate of open borders and would love to see illegals actually collect these benefits as well, but that's another topic.

Leave the disabled out of this, that's simply a straw man argument meant to demonize those who question unending benefits for the able bodied.
 
So, how do you explain 14 million illegal aliens housing, feeding, providing their own transportation, and in many cases prospering, without access to the myriad of welfare programs?

And of course, you are an advocate of open borders and would love to see illegals actually collect these benefits as well, but that's another topic.

Leave the disabled out of this, that's simply a straw man argument meant to demonize those who question unending benefits for the able bodied.

I thought illegals were coming in here and stealing all our benefits. Isn't that why conservatives want to close the border?

You can't have it both ways. Either the illegals are using welfare in droves or they aren't.
 
I thought illegals were coming in here and stealing all our benefits. Isn't that why conservatives want to close the border?

You can't have it both ways. Either the illegals are using welfare in droves or they aren't.

Strawmen... Strawmen everywhere...
 
So, how do you explain 14 million illegal aliens housing, feeding, providing their own transportation, and in many cases prospering, without access to the myriad of welfare programs?

And of course, you are an advocate of open borders and would love to see illegals actually collect these benefits as well, but that's another topic.

Leave the disabled out of this, that's simply a straw man argument meant to demonize those who question unending benefits for the able bodied.

What is, they largely work under the table, don't pay taxes, and the ones who are too disabled to work are left back in Mexico, Alex? Where did you get the idea I'm pro-illegal immigrates getting benefits, exactly?



Hey, guess what, do you have ANY idea how much farms are subsidized? A LOT. So buck up if you don't want to suckle on that teet and farm your own food you lazy bodied leeches.
 
Go spend an hour or two hanging out in the parking lot and seeing what type of people roll up to the welfare office. Or if you happen to be in the "shitty" part of town in line at walmart seeing who whips out the EBT/welfare card and then see what they hop into to drive home. Bonus -- seeing/hearing the same people trying to sell their EBT card for cash so they can go buy booze/smokes. Sure there are restrictions on what you can purchase with welfare benefits like this, but I'll tell you one thing I've never seen... someone using that money responsibly. Buy them the necessities and they just use the money we provided for basics and their disposable (i use that term loosely) load up on Soda, snacks, and crap *they don't need*

It's a really comforting feeling knowing my tax dollars are going to help subsidize some people who have always (and will always) make shit life choices. On welfare but rolling up in an Escalade with huge expensive rims... you see that a lot around here.

Social welfare programs started in a great place, and there are people that need/use them but more and more it's taken advantage of by shitty people. Almost 1/4 of the entire country is on some form of welfare... some of them truly need and deserve it, a large portion of them are abusing the system that was put in place to help actual needy people. (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-97.html)

If you don't have money to take care of yourself or your family the last thing you need is help getting an amazon prime membership. As someone with an amazon prime membership I'll be the first one to tell you how much more tempted you are to buy whatever/whenever because it will get there fast and 'free". I like amazon, but this policy of their's won't do shit to help poor people on welfare, all it's going to do is make it easier for them to spend money they don't have on shit they don't need. Which is a recurring theme with just about every welfare recipient I've ever seen.

My point is that it's not a prejudice when you see the same thing over and over done by the same people. Welfare fraud, disability fraud, medicade fraud, all add up to close to 100 billion dollars over the big programs, nice chart here:
http://federalsafetynet.com/welfare-fraud.html

I always get a kick out of one thing: I'd love to see random drug testing for some of these recipients, I have to take a drug test to *get* a job, it's not an unreasonable request to ask someone to take one if they want to get free money for years on end.

Drug testing the poor did nothing in some cases. Seems that most poor people are more interested in surviving than doing drugs.
http://time.com/3117361/welfare-recipients-drug-testing/

The testing is meant to assure taxpayers their money isn’t being “wasted” on the less desirable, those who would somehow manage to buy drugs with the assistance. But in Tennessee, where drug testing was enacted for welfare recipients last month, only one person in the 800 who applied for help tested positive. In Florida, during the four months the state tested for drug use, only 2.6% of applicants tested positive. Meanwhile, Florida has an illegal drug use rate of 8%, meaning far fewer people on services are using drugs than their better-off counterparts. The drug testing cost taxpayers more money than it saved, and was ruled unconstitutional last year.

Where I live at in North Carolina, the main employer is a nationwide chicken processing plant that I won't shame publicly. They employ thousands of people that work like a SOB for every penny they get. They have many mills and smaller offshoots of the main company all around our area that reach into Virginia for example. One of the main features that they tout is a "Wellness Center" for when you get sick, injured on the job, need information on where to look for a daycare, etc. Sounds good right? They also carry welfare applications and the state Social Security employees hold seminars there. Why? Because the chicken processing plant pays such low wages that even the supervisors in the plant qualify for EIC when they do their taxes. Capitalism at work! Oh and the plant was subsidized by the State of North Carolina so the owners of the plant don't even have to pay local taxes.

There are plenty of people on assistance that do need the help. Of course there are assholes clogging up the system. There are assholes at your job too I bet. But you can't punish everyone that deserves help because you saw an asshole exploiting a loophole.


Now as far as the Amazon thing goes, they are just trying to steal Walmart's customers. Around here Walmart is 35 miles away and many poor people don't own cars. You can't expect people to walk 70 miles to get good prices when they shop. So to get food for a person that is disabled, they have to pay a person a $50 - $75 fee per trip to go shopping for them. Disabled people typically get $600 - $700 in cash a month and rent is $450 for a run down trailer to $600 a month for a dilapidated house in the middle of nowhere. You still have to pay for electricity, water, etc. To be exact most areas don't even have city sewers; only septic tanks. Outhouses were finally abolished in the early 2000's. Nice places with city water cost much, much, more. Section 8 has a backlog of 5 years from what I was told by a Social Security employee.

So if you're disabled, you are pretty much fucked. Having the ability to get groceries, bed pads, adult diapers, Clorox bleach, paper towels, toilet tissue, etc delivered to their homes is a godsend. People at the Social Security office have a list of charities that will pay for things like a wheel chair ramp for some; but nobody does "welfare checks" to see if you're still alive or dead in your house as the gas costs too much. It's a rural area so everything is spread out. You just find out one day that Mr. Smith died in his house because he stopped paying the neighborhood kid $5 to cut his grass.

That's how the poor live here. Do some of the kids get high on weed? Sure do! Do some of the people on assistance look like they could get a job? Sure do! For every asshole exploiting there are a TON of people that really need some help. For example every week I visit a little old lady that can't remember if she is 79 or 85. Since I take care of my mom it's easy to carry on a conversation with her. One day I saw that her 65 year old daughter had walked some miles to the super overpriced grocery store and bought her mom some food. Instead of asking them why were they poor, I helped them to repair their vehicle so the daughter could drive to Walmart 35 miles away. Didn't cost me a dime; just some elbow grease and I made a new friend.

In short don't judge everyone by the dirt that the few do. :)
 
You are arguing with corporatist social darwinists who think that the value of a person's life is tied to how slavishly they devote themselves to a corporation.

Use real words, not the shit preached by street warriors.
 
Drug testing the poor did nothing in some cases. Seems that most poor people are more interested in surviving than doing drugs.
http://time.com/3117361/welfare-recipients-drug-testing/

The testing is meant to assure taxpayers their money isn’t being “wasted” on the less desirable, those who would somehow manage to buy drugs with the assistance. But in Tennessee, where drug testing was enacted for welfare recipients last month, only one person in the 800 who applied for help tested positive. In Florida, during the four months the state tested for drug use, only 2.6% of applicants tested positive. Meanwhile, Florida has an illegal drug use rate of 8%, meaning far fewer people on services are using drugs than their better-off counterparts. The drug testing cost taxpayers more money than it saved, and was ruled unconstitutional last year.

Where I live at in North Carolina, the main employer is a nationwide chicken processing plant that I won't shame publicly. They employ thousands of people that work like a SOB for every penny they get. They have many mills and smaller offshoots of the main company all around our area that reach into Virginia for example. One of the main features that they tout is a "Wellness Center" for when you get sick, injured on the job, need information on where to look for a daycare, etc. Sounds good right? They also carry welfare applications and the state Social Security employees hold seminars there. Why? Because the chicken processing plant pays such low wages that even the supervisors in the plant qualify for EIC when they do their taxes. Capitalism at work! Oh and the plant was subsidized by the State of North Carolina so the owners of the plant don't even have to pay local taxes.

There are plenty of people on assistance that do need the help. Of course there are assholes clogging up the system. There are assholes at your job too I bet. But you can't punish everyone that deserves help because you saw an asshole exploiting a loophole.


Now as far as the Amazon thing goes, they are just trying to steal Walmart's customers. Around here Walmart is 35 miles away and many poor people don't own cars. You can't expect people to walk 70 miles to get good prices when they shop. So to get food for a person that is disabled, they have to pay a person a $50 - $75 fee per trip to go shopping for them. Disabled people typically get $600 - $700 in cash a month and rent is $450 for a run down trailer to $600 a month for a dilapidated house in the middle of nowhere. You still have to pay for electricity, water, etc. To be exact most areas don't even have city sewers; only septic tanks. Outhouses were finally abolished in the early 2000's. Nice places with city water cost much, much, more. Section 8 has a backlog of 5 years from what I was told by a Social Security employee.

So if you're disabled, you are pretty much fucked. Having the ability to get groceries, bed pads, adult diapers, Clorox bleach, paper towels, toilet tissue, etc delivered to their homes is a godsend. People at the Social Security office have a list of charities that will pay for things like a wheel chair ramp for some; but nobody does "welfare checks" to see if you're still alive or dead in your house as the gas costs too much. It's a rural area so everything is spread out. You just find out one day that Mr. Smith died in his house because he stopped paying the neighborhood kid $5 to cut his grass.

That's how the poor live here. Do some of the kids get high on weed? Sure do! Do some of the people on assistance look like they could get a job? Sure do! For every asshole exploiting there are a TON of people that really need some help. For example every week I visit a little old lady that can't remember if she is 79 or 85. Since I take care of my mom it's easy to carry on a conversation with her. One day I saw that her 65 year old daughter had walked some miles to the super overpriced grocery store and bought her mom some food. Instead of asking them why were they poor, I helped them to repair their vehicle so the daughter could drive to Walmart 35 miles away. Didn't cost me a dime; just some elbow grease and I made a new friend.

In short don't judge everyone by the dirt that the few do. :)

Problem is I would say 1 in 3 actually deserve benefits. And that's what needs to be fixed. The amount of people abusing welfare has skyrocketed in the last few years and it's disgusting.
 
Good for your prejudice, so because of others I don't have the right to be helped, gotcha, you're a really awesome person, not.

What are you 16? I said nothing of the sort, my point is that the system is easily abused but instead of fixing it they just keep adding to it.
 
I thought illegals were coming in here and stealing all our benefits. Isn't that why conservatives want to close the border?

You can't have it both ways. Either the illegals are using welfare in droves or they aren't.


Anyone here that doesn't claim the mantle of "conservative" want to admit that they would like better control over entry into the US and our border security?

And how is it we are making the jump from recipients of government assistance to foreign nationals who have entered the country illegally?
 
I thought illegals were coming in here and stealing all our benefits. Isn't that why conservatives want to close the border?

You can't have it both ways. Either the illegals are using welfare in droves or they aren't.

I thought the able bodied on welfare were simply unable to survive without benefits? How do these illegals do it? You can't have it both ways.

That said, illegals steal from us in a myriad of other ways, beyond the sheer unfairness of jumping the line ahead of the legal immigrants, people you refer to as "suckers" for patiently going through the system of legal immigration that brings a million+ new people into the country every year.

For one, forcing local workers to compete with people willing to take far less, typically accompanied by evading taxes, making them attractive to unscrupulous employers and meaning the legal workforce doesn't have a chance. Unions would refer to these people as scabs, if union leadership hadn't heeded the call of their democrat masters to become pro-illegal alien. This disproportionately impacts the low skilled and building trades, so like most pro-illegals you don't need to worry about it.

For another, using Emergency rooms as their source for medical care, again leaving legal residents to pick up the tab.

Driving unlicensed and uninsured, leaving countless victims of accidents with no way to recoup their losses.

Filling our prisons, often with extremely violent gang members who should have never been here to begin with. $35,000/year is the average now. I wonder what that money could have been used for.

Filling our schools with high cost, ESL students who often have all sorts of other problems requiring the intervention of social services. In my neck of the woods a regular k-12 student costs taxpayers $20k per year, the average ESL student is $60k per year.

Like has been expressed here many times, for leftists, the middle class working families, including legal immigrants, are targets for contempt and outright hatred for questioning why they have to pay for all of this. Democrats line up future voters, the Catholic church refills it's coffers, the wealthy get access to middle class subsidized personal services via cheap housekeeping, landscaping, and restaurant workers, and the corrupt businesses who profit, again, at the expense of the middle class who bear the brunt of the costs of illegal immigration.

You're a tool, and your handle is an addiction to "compassion" that comes at no cost to you.
 
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Basically was saying I despise the entitlement of the middle class more than the exploiting of the lazy.

I think that's because a lot of the middle class work their ass off and still have to juggle their bills, cut corners with groceries, etc.. Working 50+ hours a week and still living paycheck to paycheck, while someone able but not working is eating better and spending all day at home (even if it's a minority that do it, it's still the big image).

I'd love to relax at home all day and still bring in some income. I will, but it'll be called retirement. That I earned from working my ass off. :)

Kind of makes one feel like a fool for busting his ass working.

No, it doesn't. When I was back to work (back surgeries, so I was on EBT shit), I was fucking proud to be working. Even if I was working paycheck to paycheck, I had a job and was contributing. There is a huge pride thing that some people don't have. I'd rather work for my money, even if it's less than (it's not) the EBT. But, that was also one reason I had another back surgery. I took a contract job a couple weeks after my 2nd surgery. I felt fine, I could lift some things. Just not the huge printer they had. I did it, but it didn't help my back at all.... 6 months later I got my fusion. Back is much better, but it's going downhill again. At least now I have short term and long term disability from work and good insurance. I'm hoping it's 5+ years out, though.

I enjoy working, and I am proud to be a working tax payer. It feels like shit to live off the system. It's embarrassing, it makes you feel worthless (added to the problem of not able to hold your pee or lift anything or barely walk....). I fucking loved getting surgery and going back to work. I HATE not working. I feel like a fool when I don't work. I love working. But, some people lack that pride of working and contributing.
 
I can see a lot of illegal activity being recorded through this program. When someone claims their income is under 100$ a month, and they are spending 500$+ every month on electronics and shit, technically Amazon will be recording fraudulent monetary transactions that would otherwise compromise the viability of said benefits the individuals are receiving. Also, a big FU to everyone paying regular price, as in 99% of Amazons customers.
 
I thought the able bodied on welfare were simply unable to survive without benefits? How do these illegals do it? You can't have it both ways.

That said, illegals steal from us in a myriad of other ways, beyond the sheer unfairness of jumping the line ahead of the legal immigrants, people you refer to as "suckers" for patiently going through the system of legal immigration that brings a million+ new people into the country every year.

For one, forcing local workers to compete with people willing to take far less, typically accompanied by evading taxes, making them attractive to unscrupulous employers and meaning the legal workforce doesn't have a chance. Unions would refer to these people as scabs, if union leadership hadn't heeded the call of their democrat masters to become pro-illegal alien. This disproportionately impacts the low skilled and building trades, so like most pro-illegals you don't need to worry about it.

For another, using Emergency rooms as their source for medical care, again leaving legal residents to pick up the tab.

Driving unlicensed and uninsured, leaving countless victims of accidents with no way to recoup their losses.

Filling our prisons, often with extremely violent gang members who should have never been here to begin with. $35,000/year is the average now. I wonder what that money could have been used for.

Filling our schools with high cost, ESL students who often have all sorts of other problems requiring the intervention of social services. In my neck of the woods a regular k-12 student costs taxpayers $20k per year, the average ESL student is $60k per year.

Like has been expressed here many times, for leftists, the middle class working families, including legal immigrants, are targets for contempt and outright hatred for questioning why they have to pay for all of this. Democrats line up future voters, the Catholic church refills it's coffers, the wealthy get access to middle class subsidized personal services via cheap housekeeping, landscaping, and restaurant workers, and the corrupt businesses who profit, again, at the expense of the middle class who bear the brunt of the costs of illegal immigration.

You're a tool, and your handle is an addiction to "compassion" that comes at no cost to you.

The people you should be mad at are the plutocrats that make the middle and lower classes fight over tablescraps. Not the people who are simply seeking a better life for themselves.

Have you ever actually researched what it takes to immigrate to the US? These aren't the old days where you simply showed up at Ellis Island, answered a few questions, and underwent a medical examination. The process is long, arduous, and virtually impossible unless you are either rich, have relatives, or have a post-graduate degree.
 
......................... There is a huge pride thing that some people don't have. I'd rather work for my money, even if it's less than (it's not) the EBT................

My future Son-In-Law just sent me a job listing at his company,, a VMWare position, but I told him I am not ready to leave this job yet. I have about 4 months of work here before everything should be up solid and "on cruise control". Once I get all of this in good shape it's going to coast along easy peezy until a major tech refresh is needed in 2020 for the storage systems. I feel like once I get everything right and the job turns into baby sitting, I can leave it for the guys here to watch over and I'll be free to hunt down the next job actually worth doing.

I know I am not the only IT guy around who feels this way. I want some kind of challenge to my work, I don't just want to sit in a desk and get paid, where is the personal satisfaction in that? It would be even better if I couldn't work at all, except yes, that retirement thing is coming up in just a few years and sooner or later I'll have to let it go. Maybe that's why I have to make my work right. All that will be left when I retire is my own self image and my reputation I leave with others. I suppose I want it to be a good one and not be talked about like I was a waste of air.

I can't possibly be alone in this or even unique really.
 
Some people do, there's no doubt. But it's not the majority of people who use these programs. It's not good IMO to lump them all together and punish the larger group for the misbehavior of the minority.

Given the large uptake in the sheer number of welfare recipients, one has to wonder. I agree the innocent shouldn't be punished. But there needs to be an overhaul for sure. I guess some people would panic and consider this cruel. But people who are unmotivated in their own self preservation and betterment have no reason to get off the dole. (And is the reason why Soviet Communism caused their manufacturing infrastructure to be years behind us. There was no incentive to work harder towards improvement.)

Again, I'm not saying that welfare isn't needed. There are truly some needed and justified cases for it. But I personally know someone who says, "I will be taken care of as I expect social security to take care of me when I retire" Well they haven't paid SS in over 14 years because of health issues (panic and anxiety). Their social security is non existent.

When I pointed this out to them on the social security site, they paniced, and got severely depressed. After that they set about to make a change because they didn't have an option.
 
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The people you should be mad at are the plutocrats that make the middle and lower classes fight over tablescraps. Not the people who are simply seeking a better life for themselves.

Have you ever actually researched what it takes to immigrate to the US? These aren't the old days where you simply showed up at Ellis Island, answered a few questions, and underwent a medical examination. The process is long, arduous, and virtually impossible unless you are either rich, have relatives, or have a post-graduate degree.

What table scraps?

You know I don't actually believe that shit right?

I'm that middle class guy who thinks most people are getting a fair shake but that they have been mismanaging their finances for so long, that's it's impacting generations.

You know, I'm the one that thinks people are willingly putting on their own slave collar and giving up substantial portions of their income in interest payments on debt because they have bought into a fallacy that you must live being in debt and that you can not live unless you are in debt.

So from my perspective, it's not just table scraps cause if it were, I'd have been just as fucked as everyone else financially.

I don't buy into your view of the world damicatz. I think that's one of the reasons we rarely agree on things.
 
27 year old Legal Administrator for the Department of Justice actually.
And none of that means a hill of beans for the kind of person you are. Making broad generalizations about mass amounts of people you don't know says all anyone needs to know about you.
 
What table scraps?

You know I don't actually believe that shit right?

I'm that middle class guy who thinks most people are getting a fair shake but that they have been mismanaging their finances for so long, that's it's impacting generations.

You know, I'm the one that thinks people are willingly putting on their own slave collar and giving up substantial portions of their income in interest payments on debt because they have bought into a fallacy that you must live being in debt and that you can not live unless you are in debt.

So from my perspective, it's not just table scraps cause if it were, I'd have been just as fucked as everyone else financially.

I don't buy into your view of the world damicatz. I think that's one of the reasons we rarely agree on things.

So I assume you don't own any real property then?
 
So I assume you don't own any real property then?

Does a couple of houses and some cars count?

Oh, I didn't get where you were going with this but I think I do now.

That's two houses and a couple of cars, with no mortgages or loans. I wrote checks for all of it.

OK, a little white lie. When I bought my 2015 Challenger I didn't have enough to pay the entire purchase price so I put about 25K down on it, and paid off the rest three months later. I didn't want to have to pay the penalties and raise my income tax for liquidating an IRA.

Sometimes I roll my 401Ks over into the next company's plan, sometimes I roll them into a new IRA. When I get up to 3 or 4 different IRA's going, some do better then others, I consolidate them.

Since I retired from the Army in 1998, I've worked for L3, Northrup Grumman, CSC, Oberon Associates, Raytheon, SAIC, NCI, and Semper Valens Solutions. That's eight different outfits in 19 years as a contractor, and I was 5 years with the first one, L3. So after L3 I did 7 companies in 10 years.

It's why some people don't like contracting work.

Now you were going somewhere with your question right?
 
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