President-Elect Meets With Silicon Valley Elite

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Draax said:
I don't even live in the US ... so I didn't lose control of anything. Your country can keep the Trump "utopia" you have created ... the rest of the word will continue to sit back and laugh as your country destroys itself.
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No, no, no, not at all. We still have the freedom to leave so we'll move to yours and destroy that too.
 
Ruoh said:
They really need to fix that.



Suckling at the taxpayer teet must be nice.
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All that California sunshine has baked your brain Ruoh. They don't need to fix anything. If it bothers you that much, start a protest, you guys are good at doing that or run for office to change it.

Can't say I'd be so brazen to disrespect a man of the Military to provide us civilians safety.
 
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Ducman69 said:
Uhm, no, the reason they are afraid of a Trump win, is because no one has taken outsourcing of American jobs to the extremes that the tech industry has, and they are particularly afraid of what will happen to their massive numbers of H1B visa workers they have.

They don't like that Trump is asking them to manufacture in the US.

They don't like that Trump is asking them to favor American employees.

They don't like that Trump is threatening them to stop offshoring so many funds to avoid paying taxes in the US.

I can't fathom why so many here are against Trump in this regard, as his primary beef issues are trying to defend American workers in the tech industry. More and more of us are seeing our jobs outsourced, as Intel and the like use the excuse of "improving diversity" to fire expensive employees in Western nations in favor of cheaper labor from India, Pakistan, and S.E.Asia.
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I find myself in agreement.

The big question is "how?"

I am all for him pulling this off but I am having a hard time figuring out how he might be able to do it.

Then again, the man does no how to make a deal. I will certainly try and appeal to their better natures and any concept of citizenship and patriotism they might possess.

But in the end, it's got to come down to what kind of deal is he going to offer them, and can he get Congress behind him for it.
 
Draax said:
I finally understand. It has always made me wonder why a forum, dedicated to technology, is so anti-green technology, anti-climate change, anti-science .... it is because there are so many Trump supporters here.
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Wow, really?

I'm not anti-green. I am anti-some fuck faced bitch forcing me to be green and then making me pay for it.

I'm not anti-climate change, I'm anti-some fuck faced bitch forcing me to pay for someone else's government subsidized bullshit because it's being sold as pro-climate change.

And I am not anti-science, I'm just fed up with anti-fuck faced hypocrites misrepresenting science as a justification for forcing me to pay for all the bullshit they dream up for their better world.

And just for your own clueless edification, all of us anti-green technology, anti-climate change, anti-science Trump supporters have had this exact stance long before Trump announced he was running for President.

In other words, this forum is the way it is because of the people who find comfort here, and it don't have fuck-all to do with Donald Trump.

So which socialist scum pond did you say you come from anyway?
 
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Ruoh said:
They really need to fix that.
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I can live with it, all kinds of things I can deal with whether I personally agree or not, it's called tolerance. Pick some up next time your at Walmart.

Ruoh said:
Suckling at the taxpayer teet must be nice.
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We can change that for you, and then you can take your chances with the draft like everyone else. Military members pay the same taxes too dumbass.
 
lcpiper said:
I find myself in agreement.

The big question is "how?"

I am all for him pulling this off but I am having a hard time figuring out how he might be able to do it.
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Absolutely no clue, but leverage your assets and power that you have (such as control over visas and fees).

For example, Obama mocked Trump along the same lines on the Carrier deal. Obama asked, "Well, what are you going to do, wave a magic wand... pffft", well, no. But Trump is not even in office yet, so by no means has even solidified his power, and yet he looked at what he had to work with, and saw that Carrier has a parent company that gets billions of dollars of US contracts. "Hey, parent company. You like government contracts don't you. It would be a shame if Carrier pulling out jeopardized the great relationship we have with your company, wouldn't it?" What's wrong with that? And Carrier has a legitimate complaint, in that if they move to Mexico they pay virtually nothing in taxes, they get cheap virtually slave labor, no environmental controls to speak of, and their number crunchers say they would save $68 million a year. "I understand, but you understand that you do the overwhelming majority of your business in the United States, the single largest economy in the world, and potential tariffs can impede your access to that market if you want to just take and not treat us fairly. But work with us, to make us both stronger and better, and we can give you a bit of a tax break because some taxes are still better than zero taxes if you shut down US operations".

Bam, the business understands that there is at least a threat to stockholders confidence with threats of loss of government contracts and tariffs on the majority of their existing market, but not just vinegar for hurting us, but also honey for helping us in the form of a tax break.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution to these mega corporations, nor should he reveal strategy to the general public in advance as that is removing leverage and allowing those industries to lobby the support you need in advance of you moving your chess pieces.

Most of his decisions so far have been simple but clever, even just simple things like flag burning, where he understands his base is offended by this, while his pro-Hillary opposition wants to fight him on everything but will have it pointed out that Hillary herself sponsored anti-flag burning legislation which forces them to distance themselves from her, and then just stood back and gave them a shovel knowing how many love to protest anything he supports and so would go out and demonstrate and burn the flag on American national TV (with some waving foreign flags in the crowds) exposing his opponents as unpatriotic and anti-American.

And little things with the wall too, where he talks past the deal like its all done, and gets people arguing about who is going to pay for it, ignoring the fact that by doing so they have basically conceded to the wall being built and just haggling over the bill, lol! Same thing too where he looks at his assets and sees how he can leverage that, and fix trade issues with Mexico to either have an excuse to withhold things like remittance payments using the existing Patriot Act, and the threat alone is enough to affect markets in Mexico and leverage we have as their economy relies on that (which isn't a great deal for us either way, since its a LOT of money flowing out of our economy). Talking about the cartels and criminality, which is something that pisses Mexicans off too as most come from South of their border and make the country unsafe, also garnered support in Mexico to police their own Southern border, which if Mexico also builds a Southern wall could starve out the cartels and provide the United States a double-buffer against illegal arms for drugs trade and the like, and make our borders even safer.

His little political play with Romney too just the other day had me rolling as well, and shows that he at least have advisers that really have their eye on the ball.

tl;dr: For the first time, I actually have some confidence that the government actually can deliver on promises and affect real change. *fingers crossed*
 
The job market sucks because people don't want the work that is out there. Trump won't fix this. We're moving to a service based economy. We don't need you to mine coal. We need you to wipe an old baby boomer's ass after they had a stroke. Before I moved into working IT I took care of mentally handicapped adults. Not glamorous work, but it paid my bills and I worked my ass off for it.

These former factory jockeys that all think they're too good to work at a McDonalds, work as a nurse aide, or do any kind of service work are the ones that created this. Their work is either going to be outsourced or replaced by fricking robots. There's nothing Trump can do to fix this outside of subsidizing dying industries like he did with the Carrier deal with 7 million in tax payer dollars.

There's always work, people just don't want the work that's available. We have illegal immigration issues because American workers won't work in a field for minimum wage.

How is Trump going to retrain a bunch of factory workers and coal miners for REAL jobs that are actually in demand? He has no plan. These people aren't going to go work these Silicon Valley jobs because they completely lack the skills. Are we going to pay for their education?

The issue is so many people are brutally uneducated on the world around them. Same goes for gung-ho Hillary supporters, make no mistake, they're no better. But, sometimes it's better to maintain the crappy house you live in than it is to bulldoze it while you're still inside of it.

But, screw it...I'm a straight middle aged white guy with no debt, no kids, and a gov job that can't be replaced by a machine or outsourced. So while I think Trump will ruin the lives of millions of Americans, I guess that's what ya'll wanted by change, so I'll just sit back, nod my head, and say "At least I didn't vote for him" while everything burns down around me.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
There's nothing Trump can do to fix this outside of subsidizing dying industries like he did with the Carrier deal with 7 million in tax payer dollars.
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Not a single penny came out of any tax payers wallet, please stop lying. A tax break means that they pay less than they otherwise would have, but if I was going to give you 127 million, and I only gave you 120 million, that doesn't mean I took 7 million out of your pocket, it means you are 120 million richer than you would be if I gave you zero dollars and moved to Mexico while putting so many hundreds of people on unemployment collections (which is taking money out of the tax payers wallet).

I understand you need to salt the earth and want America to fail so badly, so you can say "See, you need us liberals", but its really self-destructive and frankly you must see its just not working.
Pusher of Buttons said:
There's always work, people just don't want the work that's available. We have illegal immigration issues because American workers won't work in a field for minimum wage.
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Nor should they, and they don't have to. In the 1960s for example, people working in sanitation could provide for their families, because it was hard dirty work that not everyone wants to do, and no massive imbalance in supply and demand in the labor pool. But when you have uncontrolled immigrants with estimates say 10 million illegal aliens that will work off the books for slave wages, then that drives down wages below what any self respecting person that isn't desperate will work for, especially if they can get more money doing absolutely nothing getting unemployment checks and government subsidies (as long as they keep voting for the politicians who give those handsouts... ehem Democrats). But this lifestyle of government dependence and competing with illegal-aliens for jobs isn't healthy nor a net benefit to our society and doesn't HAVE to persist. We can control our borders, we can stop the illegal-alien problem, and we can promote more industries to stay in the United States.

More jobs + Fewer workers = Higher wages.

This is economics 101, and the way you redistribute income more fairly without food lines, where people earn fair wages for fair work.
 
Krenum said:
All that California sunshine has baked your brain Ruoh. They don't need to fix anything. If it bothers you that much, start a protest, you guys are good at doing that or run for office to change it.

Can't say I'd be so brazen to disrespect a man of the Military to provide us civilians safety.
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Yes, it bothers me. There should be no mention of the Christian god in a pledge of allegiance. It wasn't in there originally, and doesn't need to be there now.

Yes, providing us safety by being "bored".
 
One political candidate deftly used social media to propel their campaign to heights previously scoffed at by elitists. Another was undone by their reckless mishandling of classified information because of their inability to secure basic email.

And who did the tech sector spend a fortune to defeat? The one with the most savvy in technology.

Hm.
 
Ruoh said:
Yes, it bothers me. There should be no mention of the Christian god in a pledge of allegiance. It wasn't in there originally, and doesn't need to be there now.
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As an Atheist, I don't like it either, but its also one of those "transgender bathroom" type issues. Its something we shouldn't exhaust too much energy on, when there are so many real problems facing our nation that we can work together on addressing. Focusing on relatively unimportant things that people kind of have to force themselves to get worked up, at the sacrifice of what is affecting our bottom line, is what doomed the Democrats.
 
Ruoh said:
Yes, it bothers me.
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Man, that must suck for you to have to look at it every time you pay for something. There is no mention of the Christian god. Just "God".


the word "God" shouldn't bother you. There are many Gods, make up your own if you want, there are plenty of them or things to chose from.
 
Krenum said:
Man, that must suck for you to have to look at it every time you pay for something. Besides, the word "God" shouldn't bother you. There are many Gods, make up your own if you want, there are plenty of them or things to chose from.
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There are atheists. Atheists don't believe in gods, so their invocation should not provoke irritation.

There are anti-theists. Anti-theists openly oppose the worship of gods, so they get pissy every time someone invokes one.
 
Ducman69 said:
Not a single penny came out of any tax payers wallet, please stop lying. A tax break means that they pay less than they otherwise would have, but if I was going to give you 127 million, and I only gave you 120 million, that doesn't mean I took 7 million out of your pocket, it means you are 120 million richer than you would be if I gave you zero dollars and moved to Mexico while putting so many hundreds of people on unemployment collections (which is taking money out of the tax payers wallet).
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Um...yes, when you have tax obligations, and your company that utilizes public services, and those services get paid for out of a fund that you have a set amount you're supposed to kick in for, and you get told you DON'T have to pay that...it's going to come from SOMEBODY'S pocket. Trust me. I work in a bankrupt city that offered millions in tax cuts to save a handful of factory jobs. It comes from somewhere.


And I don't want to see the country fail. That's why I didn't vote for the man. The Republicans COULD have had change if they had the backbone to vote for Rand Paul, but they don't REALLY want change, they want someone to scream CHANGE and not have any clue how to do anything with it.

As steal a quote from the great Lyle Lanely...Trump's a little like the mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it, and danged if he knows how to use it!
 
Stiletto said:
There are atheists. Atheists don't believe in gods, so their invocation should not provoke irritation.

There are anti-theists. Anti-theists openly oppose the worship of gods, so they get pissy every time someone invokes one.
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Yeah, well there are no Atheists in foxholes.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
Um...yes, when you have tax obligations, and your company that utilizes public services, and those services get paid for out of a fund that you have a set amount you're supposed to kick in for, and you get told you DON'T have to pay that...it's going to come from SOMEBODY'S pocket. Trust me.
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So you don't believe in tax breaks of any sort, since you appear to believe that all money in the hands of private citizens is by default government property and always owed to the government. Interesting, but I disagree.
 
lol what is this? Killary creeps still angry because lying and cheating doesnt win elections anymore?
 
Chas said:
A state ID is inexpensive ($20), but this could still be something of an impediment to the poorest of us.
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If you're unable to save $5 a year for four years in order to obtain an ID with which to vote, it's safe to say that voting is not an ostensible high priority for you.

It's also soft bigotry to assume that minorities are uniquely unable to obtain said ID. Hell, the majority of people I see in DMV lobbies aren't white.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
The job market sucks because people don't want the work that is out there. Trump won't fix this. We're moving to a service based economy. We don't need you to mine coal. We need you to wipe an old baby boomer's ass after they had a stroke. Before I moved into working IT I took care of mentally handicapped adults. Not glamorous work, but it paid my bills and I worked my ass off for it.

These former factory jockeys that all think they're too good to work at a McDonalds, work as a nurse aide, or do any kind of service work are the ones that created this. Their work is either going to be outsourced or replaced by fricking robots. There's nothing Trump can do to fix this outside of subsidizing dying industries like he did with the Carrier deal with 7 million in tax payer dollars.

There's always work, people just don't want the work that's available. We have illegal immigration issues because American workers won't work in a field for minimum wage.

How is Trump going to retrain a bunch of factory workers and coal miners for REAL jobs that are actually in demand? He has no plan. These people aren't going to go work these Silicon Valley jobs because they completely lack the skills. Are we going to pay for their education?

The issue is so many people are brutally uneducated on the world around them. Same goes for gung-ho Hillary supporters, make no mistake, they're no better. But, sometimes it's better to maintain the crappy house you live in than it is to bulldoze it while you're still inside of it.

But, screw it...I'm a straight middle aged white guy with no debt, no kids, and a gov job that can't be replaced by a machine or outsourced. So while I think Trump will ruin the lives of millions of Americans, I guess that's what ya'll wanted by change, so I'll just sit back, nod my head, and say "At least I didn't vote for him" while everything burns down around me.
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I don't think you are seeing it all clearly.

For instance, you mention migrant workers, (yes you said illegal immigrants but that isn't who is in the fields at all, the people in the fields are the sons and daughters of the people who have been in the fields for decades, migrant workers), but let me continue.

You also talk about the pay, why is the pay so low? It isn't that low because it's migrant workers doing it, it's that low because Government and others are convinced that Americans won't pay $1.00 for a tomato or $.30 for a carrot. It's been going on for over forty years. We did the same with gas too. Politicians work to artificially limit the cost of living because they can't stay in office if the cost of living keeps growing. So they force the markets to stagnate and then, because you are screwing with the natural course of the free market, you now have to make adjustments, you have to subsidize farmers, allow migrant workers, provide incentives for farmers to put big stupid fuel tanks in the bed of their pickups so that they have an excuse to give them money to compensate for their loss of income for their products.

Well it does keep the price of goods down, but we still pay for it one place or another.

It's like the minimum wage increase. These fools that think this is a good thing and will allow these poor minimum wage earners to make it month to month. Bullshit, all this did was raise the cost of living for everyone, minimum wage workers still won't be able to make it, the value of everyone's wages just took a dump. There will be even more games like the ones above with subsidies and incentives.

Nothing is free, everything costs, if someone is telling you something is free or thy can take advantage of something, they are either foolish or they are telling the truth cause someone is certainly going to be taken advantage of.
 
Well i missed the first most fun pages but:

>linking politifact for "facts"
>one week old accounts
>The bubble from obama's two terms not-bursting (then probably getting blamed on trump)
>being a functional member of modern society without having an ID...expecting that people have any respect for your opinion/vote when you can't/won't/aren't intelligent enough to get said ID
>liberals arguing about where tax money has to come from when they want to magically pay for universal everything to everyone no matter their input to society
>pseudo-techies in a tech forum wondering why actual-techies might support Trump (sounds like Apple vs those not affected by the SJRDF all over again)
>liberals being mad that their last decade of indoctrination at every level of education is creating a failing future generation (Strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create bad times, bad times create strong men)
 
Ruoh said:
Yes, it bothers me. There should be no mention of the Christian god in a pledge of allegiance. It wasn't in there originally, and doesn't need to be there now.

Yes, providing us safety by being "bored".
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I'm 57 this March, like I really want to be older. I can not remember "God" not being in the Pledge of Allegiance and I used to have to recite it every damned school day. Of course I also had to hide under my school desk during drills.

As for Military members being "bored", I WANT them to be bored, not that I was every bored all that much. I was usually too busy to be bored. But I never had to fight a war while I was in. And that is the point so to speak. It's like System's Administrators, they do have work that must be kept up, but usually a Sysad spends a good bit of time "looking busy" because if a Sysad is really busy, it's usually because something is wrong, something is broke, that is bad, not good. The same with the Military, they always have things to do that keep them from being bored, if they don't, some leader isn't doing his job. But you don't want them fighting, if your military is fighting it's cause politicians fucked up. War is diplomacy by other means. You want to know what causes a Military to be sitting around not fighting, just training, good foreign policy, smart leadership, and a strong military combined.

Most of the last 15 years saw the US military being improperly used. From what I have heard so far from Trump, he understands that the best use of a military is to not have to use them at all. But that only works if the military is strong, if it's weak then it's just a bluff with no pot to back it up.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
Um...yes, ......... from the great Lyle Lanely..
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Who ?

You know, not everyone agrees that Reagan was such a great president, but I would argue that he was as good as some of the best and better than average.

So if Reagan, who didn't know all that much about being President could pull off a couple of successful terms, I see no reason that Trump can't.
 
Pusher of Buttons said:
Um...yes, when you have tax obligations, and your company that utilizes public services, and those services get paid for out of a fund that you have a set amount you're supposed to kick in for, and you get told you DON'T have to pay that...it's going to come from SOMEBODY'S pocket.
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That's absolutely correct, however, take a step back and look at net gain or loss.

The bottom line is if Carrier now costs more than it inputs into the economy.

Compare the net profit or loss of Carrier staying in America and paying taxes and paying American workers with a $7.5 million tax break over three years, versus Carrier paying zero taxes, shutting down operations, and many of those workers not finding replacement work right away collecting unemployment and government subsidies specifically.

Well, I know that the parent company, United Technology Corp pays an effective tax rate of 32.60% and they made $5B in after tax profits last year. We don't have all the numbers, but I don't think we need to bust out a calculator to see that the total tax revenue generated from the corporation is massive and $7.5 million a drop in the bucket against that. That means that the deal certainly resulted in a huge net profit for America, and that's what is important... I'll give you props for doing your best to try and spin a huge win as somehow being a negative.
 
Endgame said:
If anything, this election proved that flat out lying will win. How many lies were there over the course of the last year? Hell, just one debate generated over 20.... http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/opinion/campaign-stops/the-lies-trump-told.html.
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There you go, linking to a site, linking to politifact and other skewed bs again. Hint: when your link includes "opinion", its 100% chance it was paid to be there by someone with an agenda (and even then, probably 90% chance still with an agenda if its "real" news).

Every one of that guy's list needs an asterix next to it:

>He lied about the loan his father once gave him.
"
“You know, Donald was very fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit. He started his business with $14 million, borrowed from his father.” — Hillary Clinton

“My father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars.” — Donald Trump"

>Trump’s spokesman told the Journal he was referring to Trump's very first loan, a decade earlier.

>He lied about his company’s bankruptcies.
Linking to: >Trump claims he runs his businesses cautiously. We don’t really know.
"rump has not been forthcoming about the details of how he runs his businesses, but given the little information that is available, it appears that Trump has run his business with extensive leverage and debt — at least in the past."

And I could go on (not worth the effort). This is why people don't trust the media or "journalists" anymore. The massive sided agenda.... which MIGHT be ok if it was directed at both sides equally... but of course we know it certainly was not.
 
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Ducman69 said:
That's absolutely correct, however, take a step back and look at net gain or loss.

The bottom line is if Carrier now costs more than it inputs into the economy.

Compare the net profit or loss of Carrier staying in America and paying taxes and paying American workers with a $7.5 million tax break over three years, versus Carrier paying zero taxes, shutting down operations, and many of those workers not finding replacement work right away collecting unemployment and government subsidies specifically.

Well, I know that the parent company, United Technology Corp pays an effective tax rate of 32.60% and they made $5B in after tax profits last year. We don't have all the numbers, but I don't think we need to bust out a calculator to see that the total tax revenue generated from the corporation is massive and $7.5 million a drop in the bucket against that. That means that the deal certainly resulted in a huge net profit for America, and that's what is important... I'll give you props for doing your best to try and spin a huge win as somehow being a negative.
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So you want the tax payers to subsidize jobs? It would certainly cost the taxpayers some money on unemployment, but would it have cost 7.5mil? Some would have found work quickly, some likely would have retired, and some would have been out of the market for a while.

On a different note, it always burns me up when the larger corps pay less tax than a small business - if mom's corner store pays 35% tax, United / Apple / who ever certainly should as well.
 
lilbabycat said:
There you go, linking to a site, linking to politifact and other skewed bs again. Hint: when your link includes "opinion", its 100% chance it was paid to be there by someone with an agenda (and even then, probably 90% chance still with an agenda if its "real" news).

Every one of that guy's list needs an asterix next to it:

>He lied about the loan his father once gave him.
"
“You know, Donald was very fortunate in his life and that's all to his benefit. He started his business with $14 million, borrowed from his father.” — Hillary Clinton

“My father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars.” — Donald Trump"

>Trump’s spokesman told the Journal he was referring to Trump's very first loan, a decade earlier.

>He lied about his company’s bankruptcies.
Linking to: >Trump claims he runs his businesses cautiously. We don’t really know.
"rump has not been forthcoming about the details of how he runs his businesses, but given the little information that is available, it appears that Trump has run his business with extensive leverage and debt — at least in the past."

And I could go on (not worth the effort). This is why people don't trust the media or "journalists" anymore. The massive sided agenda.... which MIGHT be ok if it was directed at both sides equally... but of course we know it certainly was not.
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So you don't like the times, Washington post, politifact... what do you consider news - breitbart.com?
 
Endgame said:
So you don't like the times, Washington post, politifact... what do you consider news - breitbart.com?
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Once trusted (but no longer) places like WaPo have factual articles; but it is sadly absolutely required to look further into their statements instead of taking them at face value these days. You have to dissect every word they say to understand what they're actually saying. They speak basically in a readable legalese, where once you translate it in laymen terms it reads as "We have no idea, but our opinion of it is this" or "Given the extremely limited information, we're making this assumption" or "We absolutely despise this person and you should too...btw this other person, who we have chosen not to look into their past/details at all, is definitely an awesome person and you should think they're awesome too".

At its core, the media is an absolute shitshow that is in denial of themselves because they're "technically" still honest.
 
Ducman69 said:
Uhm, no, the reason they are afraid of a Trump win, is because no one has taken outsourcing of American jobs to the extremes that the tech industry has, and they are particularly afraid of what will happen to their massive numbers of H1B visa workers they have.

They don't like that Trump is asking them to manufacture in the US.

They don't like that Trump is asking them to favor American employees.

They don't like that Trump is threatening them to stop offshoring so many funds to avoid paying taxes in the US.

I can't fathom why so many here are against Trump in this regard, as his primary beef issues are trying to defend American workers in the tech industry.
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Except for Trump and Sanders BOTH parties have been enamored with neoliberalism, and almost anyone benefitting from it is going to like it too, since they're too far detached from regular people to understand how it's hurting the country. I think Trump is a pretty awful choice all around, however this is about the only position of his I agree with. Globalism is a cancer for the average worker and it's been in overdrive since Regan. My main concern there is Trump's cabinet picks seems to be giving mixed messages as to how serious is about implementing policy along these lines, but hey, if there's anything that Trump actually has right, this is it.

Ducman69 said:
Hope that Trump doesn't preemptively win a Nobel Peace Prize before even doing anything, like Obama, who subsequently committed more troops on the ground in the middle-east than Dubya did even during his "massive surge", promoting an "Arab Spring" that resulted in the spread of Islamism, and recently has been doing everything possible to try and provoke at the very least a second Cold War with the next greatest world superpower after ourselves, Russia.

Seriously, I've never seen the Democrats more hawkish, and to try to start a war with Russia of all nations, and to criticize Trump for being "too soft" just because he doesn't believe in this "new normal" of perpetual warfare.

Call Trump an isolationist if you want, but count your lucky stars you don't have the Clinton's back in office if they were going to keep true to their campaign promises or we'd end up in another arms race and proxy wars with Putin, rather than joining forces with Russia to defeat technologically inferior ISIS forces.
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Christ, this is really the short and long of it right here. Democrats now are moderate Republicans, just with liberal social views sprinkled on top. There's nothing "progressive" about Hillary and the like. But wow, you nailed it, Hillary somehow manages to outdo all of Trumps flaws by flirting with another cold war. Pretty much nothing Trump is likely to do could be as bad as nuclear escalation. I think Trump is a pretty awful candidate overall, especially on the environment, but holy crap, nothing beats risk of nuclear war, huh? I think a lot of people didn't necessarily vote for Trump, but AGAINST Hillary.
 
But but but ......

“My father gave me a very small loan in 1975 and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars.” — Donald Trump

Clinton is right on this one. The Wall Street Journal tracked down a 1985 casino-license disclosure that showed Trump’s father lent him $14 million
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Am I the only one seeing a 10 year differential here ?

Now this is Father and Son stuff and Dad was really rich, but a loan is still a loan and must be repaid to remain a loan and not be a gift.

I have given my own kids loans and they were in fact loans that they had to pay me back. Were the terms better than anything a bank would have offered, hell yes. That was why I gave them the loan to start with, to save them having to pay the higher interest rates. But they also paid me back, and promptly as agreed.

Now I only looked at this on the surface, and maybe that 1985 casino-disclosure document was talking about a loan issued in 1975, I don't know. But if it did, why isn't that how it's reported.

Unless someone can't point it out, I'm not seeing a lie here.
 
lilbabycat said:
Once trusted (but no longer) places like WaPo have factual articles; but it is sadly absolutely required to look further into their statements instead of taking them at face value these days. You have to dissect every word they say to understand what they're actually saying. They speak basically in a readable legalese, where once you translate it in laymen terms it reads as "We have no idea, but our opinion of it is this" or "Given the extremely limited information, we're making this assumption" or "We absolutely despise this person and you should too...btw this other person, who we have chosen not to look into their past/details at all, is definitely an awesome person and you should think they're awesome too".

At its core, the media is an absolute shitshow that is in denial of themselves because they're "technically" still honest.
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I am really starting to like this guy.


And while we are talking about him, I found this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-taxes.html?_r=0
 
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Stiletto said:
If you're unable to save $5 a year for four years in order to obtain an ID with which to vote, it's safe to say that voting is not an ostensible high priority for you.

It's also soft bigotry to assume that minorities are uniquely unable to obtain said ID. Hell, the majority of people I see in DMV lobbies aren't white.
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I feel the same way.

I've seen instances of people going out into poorer neighborhoods and asking people about ID, the location of the closest DMV, etc.

Everyone interviewed HAD ID and could basically tell you EXACTLY where the DMV is.
 
Chas said:
I feel the same way.

I've seen instances of people going out into poorer neighborhoods and asking people about ID, the location of the closest DMV, etc.

Everyone interviewed HAD ID and could basically tell you EXACTLY where the DMV is.
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I also find it highly irritating that the same people who said voter ID is silly and unnecessary and racist are now claiming that the election was stolen. One minute, voter fraud doesn't exist, the next federal investigations need to happen and wars need to start over the election. The hypocrisy is pouring out of this election like water from a burst dam.
 
Stiletto said:
I also find it highly irritating that the same people who said voter ID is silly and unnecessary and racist are now claiming that the election was stolen. One minute, voter fraud doesn't exist, the next federal investigations need to happen and wars need to start over the election. The hypocrisy is pouring out of this election like water from a burst dam.
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Or how about, Dems to Trump, that he has to accept the election outcome, Then they lose, only to start riots & create General Mayhem. I guess acceptance only goes so far, eh? :ROFLMAO:
 
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