What are optimal specs?

E

element72

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Hello HF community!

I am upgrading from an Asus P6T with i7-920 @ 3.8Ghz. I am currently getting a new GIGABYTE GA-Z97X-UD5H with a 4790k. I chose this motherboard because I like the protected features it offers for longevity and this cpu for its single thread performance. 6 years ago I was told that the optimal memory you would want is 1600Mhz because going any higher meant looser timings and little performance difference. I haven't been following the PC hardware fads. I mainly use my PC for gaming. Can someone tell me, if I could have made a better choice by going to DDR4? And what are the optimal memory module specs for gaming and overclocking as of now? :)

P.S I'm looking to buy new memory modules that's why I'm asking these questions, and any suggestions are very much welcomed!
 
ASRock Extreme 6 is what i got and its nice. It also comes with this awesome debug feature that tells you where an issue is....saves lots of guess.

For optimal memory is an odd question. Ideally this would be one of the best memories you can get but anything comparable will be good.

G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB Desktop Memory Model F3-2400C10Q-32GTX - Newegg.com

Fair notice: I have this set and I am struggling with it but it might be something i have done wrong. I still got to trouble shoot. I have OCs and custom settings and lots of stuff so don't take my case as a common issue with this set.

I personally would get anything over 2100 MTs. I also have 16GB of Gskill sniper that i would be okay with selling you. I have no use since i replaced them. 2133 CL 10 (F3-2133C10D-16GsR). Its a decent set of RAM but i wanted the best so i upgraded to the above. As i said i wouldn't go with less than 2100MTs RAM if this is a new build. You want this to last.

Also if your going new build why not get 6700K? epscially if single thread is the issue....I am Single thread limited too. I went with an SL 4.8GHz chip since I already had a Z97 board already...was kinda waste to do a whole new build. (so waiting for Kaby Lake)

Also you have a few misconceptions about RAM speed and latency. I use this calc I made to see the actual latency of RAM. It'll be easier to compare RAM using this Calc.

Excel file to find 1st, 4th, 8th word Latency!

SomeGuy133 said:
timings are only relevant when put into perspective/context as i keep telling people who keep missing the major point that timings is literally only half of the equation.

2133MT/2=1066.5Mhz

(1/(1066.5mhz*10^6))*1000000000=0.937646507ns (cycle time)*10 CL=9.376465073 ns, which is the true latency of the RAM.

The red number is the only number you should care about. CL is meaningless without considering the MTs.

You can have a 4000 CL for all i care as long as the MTs is freakin gigantic.

It is simpler to just use my excel sheet.
Click to expand...

Fair note my Calc only does CAS latency. there are several other factors in latency. I haven't gotten a chance to expand it yet but this well help you compare RAM. from different MTs to different CL


Also as stated above. Anything 2400MTs or above is solid according to Anandtech but 2133 is still even decent but 1600/1866 are fairly slow for today even for gaming. Not the end of the world by any means but there is a small tangible difference.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
ASRock Extreme 6 is what i got and its nice. It also comes with this awesome debug feature that tells you where an issue is....saves lots of guess.

For optimal memory is an odd question. Ideally this would be one of the best memories you can get but anything comparable will be good.

G.SKILL Trident X Series 32GB Desktop Memory Model F3-2400C10Q-32GTX - Newegg.com

Fair notice: I have this set and I am struggling with it but it might be something i have done wrong. I still got to trouble shoot. I have OCs and custom settings and lots of stuff so don't take my case as a common issue with this set.

I personally would get anything over 2100 MTs. I also have 16GB of Gskill sniper that i would be okay with selling you. I have no use since i replaced them. 2133 CL 10 (F3-2133C10D-16GsR). Its a decent set of RAM but i wanted the best so i upgraded to the above. As i said i wouldn't go with less than 2100MTs RAM if this is a new build. You want this to last.

Also if your going new build why not get 6700K? epscially if single thread is the issue....I am Single thread limited too. I went with an SL 4.8GHz chip since I already had a Z97 board already...was kinda waste to do a whole new build. (so waiting for Kaby Lake)

Also you have a few misconceptions about RAM speed and latency. I use this calc I made to see the actual latency of RAM. It'll be easier to compare RAM using this Calc.

Excel file to find 1st, 4th, 8th word Latency!



Fair note my Calc only does CAS latency. there are several other factors in latency. I haven't gotten a chance to expand it yet but this well help you compare RAM. from different MTs to different CL


Also as stated above. Anything 2400MTs or above is solid according to Anandtech but 2133 is still even decent but 1600/1866 are fairly slow for today even for gaming. Not the end of the world by any means but there is a small tangible difference.
Click to expand...
4790k scored the highest in single-core cpubenchmark, so I just decided on that. I didn't know the specs I was reading were MT/s. I thought it was Mhz. It seems to me that in a handful of CPU-intensive games you will see at most a 10fps difference. Does ram speed contribute to loading times or rendering in-games? Is there a reason to get 32GB over 16GB?
 
element72 said:
4790k scored the highest in single-core cpubenchmark, so I just decided on that. I didn't know the specs I was reading were MT/s. I thought it was Mhz. It seems to me that in a handful of CPU-intensive games you will see at most a 10fps difference. Does ram speed contribute to loading times or rendering in-games? Is there a reason to get 32GB over 16GB?
Click to expand...

the standard in my eyes is min of 16GB no matter what. Only certain people need 32GB like me. 16GB is solid. You should know if your having issues with 16GB.

higher bandwidth aka more MTs can help loading and FPS but it is fairly minimal once your pushing 2133+ MTs. 2400+ is ideal but not a big deal in terms of gaming. Other programs that can be different so case by case of course.

SKL has ~6% better IPC so a 4.8GHz SKL vs a 4.8GHz HW will be faster by 6% on average.

going from a 920 to HW/SKL will be night and day especially in older games. If you play older games with bots or large units there will be a massive FPS difference. Source engine, Total War, RCT3, NS2, and others are heavily single thread limited.

So yea anything 2133MTs or faster you will be fine. Faster is better but nothing major. (we are talking 1-3% difference assuming RAM has the same over all latency) 2400 CL10 ~ same as 2133 CL9 in terms of latency. 3200 CL 14 ~ 2400 CL 10 but one has better BW, which again only affects a small sample of games and programs.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
the standard in my eyes is min of 16GB no matter what. Only certain people need 32GB like me. 16GB is solid. You should know if your having issues with 16GB.

higher bandwidth aka more MTs can help loading and FPS but it is fairly minimal once your pushing 2133+ MTs. 2400+ is ideal but not a big deal in terms of gaming. Other programs that can be different so case by case of course.

SKL has ~6% better IPC so a 4.8GHz SKL vs a 4.8GHz HW will be faster by 6% on average.

going from a 920 to HW/SKL will be night and day especially in older games. If you play older games with bots or large units there will be a massive FPS difference. Source engine, Total War, RCT3, NS2, and others are heavily single thread limited.

So yea anything 2133MTs or faster you will be fine. Faster is better but nothing major. (we are talking 1-3% difference assuming RAM has the same over all latency) 2400 CL10 ~ same as 2133 CL9 in terms of latency. 3200 CL 14 ~ 2400 CL 10 but one has better BW, which again only affects a small sample of games and programs.
Click to expand...
Where did you get that 6% difference in single-core performance?
 
SomeGuy133 said:
The Intel 6th Gen Skylake Review: Core i7-6700K and i5-6600K Tested

you need to do the math. HW-BW-SKL 1.00*1.033*1.027=1.060891=~106.1%
Click to expand...

Thank you. The game I am focusing on is using the unreal engine 3. The game is well known to be cpu-intensive because of the unreal engine. Can you recommend me a site that shows benchmarks of 6700k vs 4790k relative to this game engine? If I decide to get 6700k and return the 4790k, I have to research for another motherboard, heatsink and RAM.. :( I would like to overclock the 6700k if needed by the game.
 
element72 said:
Thank you. The game I am focusing on is using the unreal engine 3. The game is well known to be cpu-intensive because of the unreal engine. Can you recommend me a site that shows benchmarks of 6700k vs 4790k relative to this game engine? If I decide to get 6700k and return the 4790k, I have to research for another motherboard, heatsink and RAM.. :( I would like to overclock the 6700k if needed by the game.
Click to expand...

if you already got Z97 there is no reason to scrap your system. Thats why i spent 350 on a binned 4.8GHz from SL..its close enough and was a small price to pay.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
if you already got Z97 there is no reason to scrap your system. Thats why i spent 350 on a binned 4.8GHz from SL..its close enough and was a small price to pay.
Click to expand...
They're still new in the box. I think I will exchange the setup for 6700k. I saw some real world performance for a few games. I can get a similar mobo with the new cpu around the same price. I have a hard time choosing a mobo that is known to OC well with the 6700k. Any suggestions? I like the Gigabyte z170x gaming 7, but I don't see any ESD protection features, so I'm going to assume that's a given for modern boards? Please correct me on this. What would be the trident x equivalent in DDR4?
 
element72 said:
hmmm I'm not willing to shell out $254 for ram unless its somehow justified for gaming.
Click to expand...
you dont need to. Its just the best. Also thats 32GB. get 16GB. thats ~120. Also Get anything that is 2400+ but with low latency. Use my excel sheet to compare latencys. So you might find some 2400 with comparable latency...at least close. Anything under 10ns is good enough for first word.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
you dont need to. Its just the best. Also thats 32GB. get 16GB. thats ~120. Also Get anything that is 2400+ but with low latency. Use my excel sheet to compare latencys. So you might find some 2400 with comparable latency...at least close. Anything under 10ns is good enough for first word.
Click to expand...
excel sheet? ur referring to the equation u posted on this thread right?
 
its comparable in CAS but not the other latency. If it was 10-10-10 vs 10-12-12 yes.

The other latency is in the 10ns range so its on the boarder in my opinon

either save a few bucks and get this
$90
HyperX Savage 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Desktop Memory Model HX424C12SB2K2/16 - Newegg.com

or spend a little more and get this. its entirely up to you. I doubt there is anything major in terms of games for your use. For me I would go with the 120 option but i am picky
$105
DDR4 3000, 14, 16GB (2 x 8GB), Desktop Memory, Memory, Components - Newegg.com
$120
DDR4 3200, 14, 16GB (2 x 8GB), Desktop Memory, Memory, Components - Newegg.com
 
SomeGuy133 said:
its comparable in CAS but not the other latency. If it was 10-10-10 vs 10-12-12 yes.

The other latency is in the 10ns range so its on the boarder in my opinon

either save a few bucks and get this
$90
HyperX Savage 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Desktop Memory Model HX424C12SB2K2/16 - Newegg.com

or spend a little more and get this. its entirely up to you. I doubt there is anything major in terms of games for your use. For me I would go with the 120 option but i am picky
$105
DDR4 3000, 14, 16GB (2 x 8GB), Desktop Memory, Memory, Components - Newegg.com
$120
DDR4 3200, 14, 16GB (2 x 8GB), Desktop Memory, Memory, Components - Newegg.com
Click to expand...

The TridentZ ram you showed me has 14-14-14-34. Would I see any real difference if I got the same tridentZ ram you suggested, except it has 15-15-15-35? The cycle time is the same, but I don't know why I should care about 1st word, 4th word, and 8th word. I guess bigger question is would you able to see a difference in practical sense?
 
for mere gaming? Nothing noticeable as far as i know. It plays a bigger role in other aspects but unless ur crazy about performance u could save the same depending. Like is it 120vs100 in cost you could save the 20 bucks.

but i would get the 3000-14-14-14 over the 3200 15-15-15.
 
for gaming and normal use, i wouldnt get anything faster than 2133 (DDR3) or 2400-3000 (DDR4),
since you dont gain much in performance, but it will most of the time cost more.

try to get the lowest timings possible (without paying more), but since intel's run better with
(high) MHz (vs lower timing) ram anyway, its not THAT important.

and unless you dont plan on upgrading (rig and/or ram) in the next 4-5y, or your doing stuff like photoshop/video editing, more than 16 (get 2x 8gb) would be a bit of a waste,
since amount of vram/gpu performance will affect game fps much more.

i do recommend getting a Asrock or Asus ROG board. one reason: i have never seen MSI/Gigabyte boards providing the same amount of "feats",
when compared to Asus/Asrock boards at the same price level.
e.g, the asrock Z170 extreme 6 is cheaper than msi M5 or gigabyte UD5.


i dont say they are "bad", but i only had one defective asus board in the past 15y (TUF board, bought it used),
vs not one of the msi/gigabytes i tried worked as "flawlessly" (no bsod etc).
and since most swaps included same os/cpu/gpu, i know it wasn't caused by something else.

plus, the "Digi" power solution used on asus/asrock boards is one of the best on the market (less relevant if not OCing).
 
I just picked up 4 8GB sticks of TridentZ DDR 3733 (F4-3733C17D-16GTZA) for my Maximo VIII Hero 6700K build. Specs are:
  • Timing 17-17-17-37
  • Cas Latency 17
  • Voltage 1.35V
According to Asus, the Hero needs all 4 slots populated to achieve 3733. Their specific wording as follows:

--- cut ---
ASUS 2nd generation T-Topology allows DDR4 memory overclocking to reach new heights: over DDR4-3733 MHz with all memory slots populated. Featuring a customized trace layout for reduced crosstalk and coupling noise, ASUS 2nd generation T-Topology ensures time-aligned signal transfer for improved memory stability and compatibility.
--- cut ---

Did I read that wrong? Did they mean that 3733 is easy to do with just 2 slots populated but that their ROG brand can pull it off with all 4 slots populated?

I would have gotten a pair of 16GB sticks if that's the case, except I don't see any available at the moment that run 3733 speed...

17/1866.5*1000 = 9.1079ns Pretty decent, no?
 
Last edited:
Did they mean that 3733 is easy to do with just 2 slots populated but that their ROG brand can pull it off with all 4 slots populated?
Click to expand...

I believe this is basically what they are saying.
 
Thanks. I went ahead and created RMA requests for my 4 x 8GB DDR 3733 sticks (cost me $170 a pair) and instead ordered the DDR4 3200 2 x 16Gb pair of 14-14-14. This saved me $105 over the 4 8GB stick. And 14/1600*1000 = 8.75ns is better than the 9.11ms of the DDR 3733.

Should have done my homework before ordering in the first place, but with the free return shipping and no restock fee, it just added a little extra effort.
 
pclausen said:
Thanks. I went ahead and created RMA requests for my 4 x 8GB DDR 3733 sticks (cost me $170 a pair) and instead ordered the DDR4 3200 2 x 16Gb pair of 14-14-14. This saved me $105 over the 4 8GB stick. And 14/1600*1000 = 8.75ns is better than the 9.11ms of the DDR 3733.

Should have done my homework before ordering in the first place, but with the free return shipping and no restock fee, it just added a little extra effort.
Click to expand...
one of the best sticks you can buy ATM and room to upgrade!
 
SomeGuy133 said:
one of the best sticks you can buy ATM and room to upgrade!
Click to expand...

The board I'm looking at (MSI Z170A SLI PLUS) doesn't list any of the G.Skill TridentZ 3000 or 3200 speed CAS 14 modules as compatible on their site. I only saw references to CAS 15 being supported. Would it still be worth trying to get the C14D sticks to work or should I stick with 15D?
 
chillstatus said:
The board I'm looking at (MSI Z170A SLI PLUS) doesn't list doesnof the G.Skill TridentZ 3000 or 3200 speed CAS 14 modules as compatible on their site. I only saw references to CAS 15 being supported. Would it still be worth trying to get the C14D sticks to work or should I stick with 15D?
Click to expand...
Not sure. I dont know that board and on cell so too hard to review specs. You might just want a better board if it doesnt even list 3000mts as supported


if your saying it supports 32000 but not the cas latency i dont think it matters but i could be wrong. Freq and voltage is what motherboards are concerned with as far as i know but i could be wrong
 
I had no issues just telling my Asus Maximus VIII Extreme to use the XMP timing on this RAM. It is not shown as compatible in the manual either (they don't list anything faster than 15-15-15 for the 3200 stuff).
 
Well I just ordered F4-3200C14D-16GTZ from Newegg since there is a 10% off discount code for PAX East.
 
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