Nvidia Pascal GPU has 17 billion transistors

TaintedSquirrel said:
Nvidia pretty consistently obsoletes their GPUs in 1 year timeframes. Or maybe look at only flagships/Titan/Ti models. Might help to narrow things down.
Safe to say the 980 Ti will be dead sometime during summer 2016. With HBM/16nm delays maybe Fall. I would be surprised if Nvidia rides Maxwell into 2017. Blame AMD for that one... More rebrands, please. :rolleyes:

If we knew we weren't getting the "GTX 1000" series until early 2017 I would be all over a 980 Ti right now. Screw that noise... Another year and a half on the same GPUs which are already up to 1 year old.
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if they are announcing details of pascal now then i highly doubt nvidia will go until 2017 with maxwell ROFL. The Ti is already oboslete and is not much of an improvement over the 980s overclocked. The MSI lightining will come because nvidia will allow it to milk all whats left over of the cripple hot titan probably about 3 months from now. Dont get suckered into that though because

NVIDIA has updated their next generation graphics roadmap at the GTC 2015 conference with the upcoming Pascal GPU and Volta GPU. While we are still a few years away from knowing what the Volta GPU would look and perform like, CEO of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang did confirm three key aspects of the Pascal GPU which will make it 10 times faster than current generation Maxwell based chips when launched in 2016

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/#ixzz3gsDp1VhX

once again thank i had enough of MSI 980 TI 6G . Went back to amazon yesterday. Good luck to anyone who wants hot idle temps , and sucks nothing but power with a 10-15 percent improvement at 2k. Great however for users at 4k gaming
 
Advil said:
The 970 has been a good buy since the day it launched. Maybe better early on since the prices have not changed.

I'd love to get a 980ti but that kind of price tag is too [H] for me. I used to only buy video cards at or under $250 but they've gotten me to break my rule the last couple of times and go a little over $300. That's going to stay the limit though. Since I change cards every year or year and a half there's only so much depreciation I'm willing to eat between selling cards. The 980ti, as awesome as it is, is going to crater in value near the launch of Pascal. The 970 probably won't lose more than $100-120 in value over the next year.
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Sadly, I think the days for $250 getting you a capable GPU are behind us. the GTX970 with an OC has some trouble in the most demanding games a 1080.
 
UnrealCpu said:
if they are announcing details of pascal now then i highly doubt nvidia will go until 2017 with maxwell ROFL. The Ti is already oboslete and is not much of an improvement over the 980s overclocked. The MSI lightining will come because nvidia will allow it to milk all whats left over of the cripple hot titan probably about 3 months from now. Dont get suckered into that though because

NVIDIA has updated their next generation graphics roadmap at the GTC 2015 conference with the upcoming Pascal GPU and Volta GPU. While we are still a few years away from knowing what the Volta GPU would look and perform like, CEO of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang did confirm three key aspects of the Pascal GPU which will make it 10 times faster than current generation Maxwell based chips when launched in 2016

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/#ixzz3gsDp1VhX

once again thank i had enough of MSI 980 TI 6G . Went back to amazon yesterday. Good luck to anyone who wants hot idle temps , and sucks nothing but power with a 10-15 percent improvement at 2k. Great however for users at 4k gaming
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They always show exponential performance they did it with the keplar vs maxwell. It is highly unlikely to be 10X the fps of 980. Yes it will probably obsolete the 980 ti but i'm thinking 1070 to be a bit faster than 980 ti (1080 will be a bit faster than 1070) and 1080 ti will be much faster than 1070 making the wait for upgrade longer. We already saw that hbm didn't translate to be significantly better fps until you went to 4k resolution even though bandwidth is many times that of gddr5.
 
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UnrealCpu said:
if they are announcing details of pascal now then i highly doubt nvidia will go until 2017 with maxwell ROFL. The Ti is already oboslete and is not much of an improvement over the 980s overclocked. The MSI lightining will come because nvidia will allow it to milk all whats left over of the cripple hot titan probably about 3 months from now. Dont get suckered into that though because

NVIDIA has updated their next generation graphics roadmap at the GTC 2015 conference with the upcoming Pascal GPU and Volta GPU. While we are still a few years away from knowing what the Volta GPU would look and perform like, CEO of NVIDIA, Jen-Hsun Huang did confirm three key aspects of the Pascal GPU which will make it 10 times faster than current generation Maxwell based chips when launched in 2016

Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-gtc-2015/#ixzz3gsDp1VhX

once again thank i had enough of MSI 980 TI 6G . Went back to amazon yesterday. Good luck to anyone who wants hot idle temps , and sucks nothing but power with a 10-15 percent improvement at 2k. Great however for users at 4k gaming
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You had oced 980 SLI so of course oced 980 Ti SLI cards are not a massive improvement at 2560x1440. Stop acting like a 980 Ti is not a decent jump over the 980 though because it is. An oced 980 Ti is nearly 40% faster at 1440 than an oced 980.
 
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dragonageinquisition said:
The cost of GPUs at the retail level are primarily due to the research cost associated with designing the die, to be more precise, paying off the loans you took out to pay for the research, which can reach the billions. The actual GPUs dont cost nearly what you think. In fact to make a profit from just the marginal cost of a big die graphics chip probably starts closer at $150 than $999. Lower yields/transistor cost is a bigger problem for Nvidia than AMD simply because Nvidia's shareholders expect a much higher profit margin.

Nvidia will have to eat the loss in profit compared to 28nm chips because they know AMD will sell a big die 14/16FF card at a price point range regardless of what Nvidia does. It's one of the benefits of competition--Nvidia doesn't have a choice but to sell a big die 16FF card at an affordable price once AMD hits the market with their next gen solution. Sure, they are free to ask $1250 for a Titan 2 to maintain their 28nm profit margin, but once AMD hits the market a few months later, guess what? They can sell a cut down card at $650 or they can choose to lose the market.
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Umm they're gonna have to sell cut down chips anyway regardless of AMD, because otherwise those imperfect dies become a sunk cost.

It's very possible that the full chip will be a Titan exclusive from here on out, and for some that alone is worth the premium.
 
Flogger23m said:
Sadly, I think the days for $250 getting you a capable GPU are behind us. the GTX970 with an OC has some trouble in the most demanding games a 1080.
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Nope- with AAA development being tied to consoles we are at the low point of gpu power vs console gpu.

So demands of game will be stable for next 2-3 years while gpus will be getting better.
 
Michaelius said:
Nope- with AAA development being tied to consoles we are at the low point of gpu power vs console gpu.

So demands of game will be stable for next 2-3 years while gpus will be getting better.
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That is flat-out nonsense. Just like on the previous generation of consoles, PC versions of most games got more and more demanding every year.
 
misterbobby said:
You had oced 980 SLI so of course oced 980 Ti SLI cards are not a massive improvement at 2560x1440. Stop acting like a 980 Ti is not a decent jump over the 980 though because it is. An oced 980 Ti is nearly 40% faster at 1440 than an oced 980.
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Yeah not sure why he keeps bagging on the 980 Ti because he has 980's. It's a considerable step up from a 980. Let people decide for themselves if it's worth it.

As for Pascal I'll be pretty disappointed if it doesn't spank Maxwell and get close to 2x performance in demanding games. That's a massive increase in transistor count and bandwidth coming down the pipe.
 
The 980ti is not worth the upgrade and is no where near 40% improvement over a highly over clocked 980. In fact 3dmark and extreme were only 2-3k more. You guys keep going to justify your purchases and it was a bad purchase for me in my case . sorry the ti version of the 980 is a failure in price and design . too hot and not much as a keeper in my opinion. Can't wait for pascal when it blows the doors off maxwell especially in direct x 12 windows 10
Oh btw my 980ti was at 1506/7960 with a huge vornado fan keeping it cool that moves air 100ft to prevent it from throttling . My 980 overclocked was cool and quiet and still got 12500 in extreme . It wasnt 14500 like my overclocked 980ti with the vornado fan but was fully stable unlike the overpriced 980 ti
 
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MangoSeed said:
Yeah not sure why he keeps bagging on the 980 Ti because he has 980's. It's a considerable step up from a 980. Let people decide for themselves if it's worth it.

As for Pascal I'll be pretty disappointed if it doesn't spank Maxwell and get close to 2x performance in demanding games. That's a massive increase in transistor count and bandwidth coming down the pipe.
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They already mentioned it will have twice the transistor count 17 billion vs 8 billion titan. 4k gaming will double and eat 2k gaming for breakfast. People like to justify their purchase, i like to tell the truth. If MSI releases the lightning and can do 1650 core on air then i might be interested of course if the price is right.
 
UnrealCpu said:
The 980ti is not worth the upgrade and is no where near 40% improvement over a highly over clocked 980. In fact 3dmark and extreme were only 2-3k more. You guys keep going to justify your purchases and it was a bad purchase for me in my case . sorry the ti version of the 980 is a failure in price and design . too hot and not much as a keeper in my opinion. Can't wait for pascal when it blows the doors off maxwell especially in direct x 12 windows 10
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3dmark must be a fun game. Those synthetic benchmarks must really translate to real world gaming every time.

You have a great overclocked 980 and you bought a bad 980TI that didn't OC well and ran too hot. Some chips run faster and/or cooler than others. Personally if I already own a 980, I wouldn't upgrade to a 980Ti either. However, extrapolating your experience to all 980TIs and bashing it at every chance is pretty weak. 980TI has 40% more cores, 50% more memory, at clock for clock, it's going to be 40% faster than a 980, especially at the 4K and high bandwidth situations. Also, the biggest benefit is the minimum rather than max frame rate improvement over a 980. Its just common sense (and reviews prove it) that a 980TI is more than 10-15% improvement over a 980 in gaming situations. Your bad experience with it won't be able to change that.
 
I'm glad you're happy with your 980's but you can't decide the "truth" for everyone else. An overclocked Ti is objectively much faster than an overclocked 980.
 
Never had a 980 but my 980ti absolutely destroys my old 970 at 1440p, approx double the FPS in some games at 1440p... 980 is not really that much better than a 970.
 
Cyph said:
3dmark must be a fun game. Those synthetic benchmarks must really translate to real world gaming every time.

You have a great overclocked 980 and you bought a bad 980TI that didn't OC well and ran too hot. Some chips run faster and/or cooler than others. Personally if I already own a 980, I wouldn't upgrade to a 980Ti either. However, extrapolating your experience to all 980TIs and bashing it at every chance is pretty weak. 980TI has 40% more cores, 50% more memory, at clock for clock, it's going to be 40% faster than a 980, especially at the 4K and high bandwidth situations. Also, the biggest benefit is the minimum rather than max frame rate improvement over a 980. Its just common sense (and reviews prove it) that a 980TI is more than 10-15% improvement over a 980 in gaming situations. Your bad experience with it won't be able to change that.
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Fun game rofl... Thats why video card manufactures and reviewers use it as a baseline to evaluate the performance of video cards. K|ngp|n for example ring a bell? On to your other comment... My ti was not a poor overclocker and was average to what the 980 ti can do on core , 1506-1533 is respectable ... Do some research.. On to your other comment.. Across the board evga, gigabyte, Msi, non reference have been hot , loud, and not stable like people want it, again do some research... At 4k yah you will have an improvment but not much at 2k where i want , in fact for almost 700 bucks a single card should be giving me 20-30fps more but its not. 10-15 at most is more like it. Not worth it in my book , i will put my money towards skylake and 8 physical cores and get pascal . If people have 980s in sli and have a 4k monitor yah i would upgrade. Still waiting for 4k IPS at 144hz gsync though, i will give it 6 month to a year. No bad expereience here i did several runs in SLI with a highly overclocked TI and was sad to say the least for the money nvidia wants for these cards. Like i said earlier, hot idle, hot load, hot case , everything was hot but the fps . Its obvious the non reference heatsink sucks and is barely suitble for overclocking
 
Nicholars said:
Never had a 980 but my 980ti absolutely destroys my old 970 at 1440p, approx double the FPS in some games at 1440p... 980 is not really that much better than a 970.
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Overclocked 970 and gimped 3.5 gb ram and can barely match an a stock 980 let alone a highly overclocked 980. I would disagree especially gaming at 2560x1440
 
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MangoSeed said:
I'm glad you're happy with your 980's but you can't decide the "truth" for everyone else. An overclocked Ti is objectively much faster than an overclocked 980.
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I agree but 2-3k more in 3dmark default and extreme is not worth 500-600 more after selling my nicely overclocked 980s and taking a huge hit. Dollar to performance ratio is not worth it when investing in SLI. If you were a single 970 or 980 owner yeah great upgrade especially at 4k. The loss on each 980 for me is not worth it
Btw i have 3d mark scores to prove the 980 ti is not much faster when highly overclocked.
I guess owning a 980ti will help you get a slight improvment when using DSR, however what is not well known is that gsync can not be run while using DSR,, failure again for 980ti users who own gsync. I predict within 6 months though it will be fixed within the drivers and pascal will love DSR . Until then sorry nvidia you wont be getting my money this go around . At least AMD is providing a nice cooling solution with the fury x and freesync is free .
 
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Isn't pascal also going to be an entirely new arch along with DP because of the contracts they have to fill? Also i thought i read somewhere that the recticle limit would be 400mm^2.
 
rumartinez89 said:
Isn't pascal also going to be an entirely new arch along with DP because of the contracts they have to fill? Also i thought i read somewhere that the recticle limit would be 400mm^2.
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I've heard people guesstimating the first gen 16nm products would max out around 400mm^2 because it wont be mature, but by the time a refresh happens it'll be very mature a year later.

Not sure if it'll be a new architecture. Although since they consider the single 750/750Ti Maxwell cards to be Maxwell 1.0 then that makes the 900 Series Maxwell 2.0, which I think is silly, but whatever. In that case it would, or should, be a new architecture.

Doesn't nVidia still do that cycle of every 4 generations there is a major architecture change, followed by a refresh, then a new improved architecture based on the existing, followed by a refresh, then the cycle starts all over again?
 
UnrealCpu said:
I agree but 2-3k more in 3dmark default and extreme is not worth 500-600 more after selling my nicely overclocked 980s and taking a huge hit. Dollar to performance ratio is not worth it when investing in SLI.
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high end GPU is always bad in dollar to performance ratio
 
In terms of features / architecture it seems like Pascal is more oriented towards non-gaming customers. We'll benefit from the new node and all that stuff of course, but I think they're focusing on their HPC customers and the neural network stuff for this round.
 
PeeWeePee said:
high end GPU is always bad in dollar to performance ratio
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I just kinda think this is new maxwell is nothing but a minor improvement over 980 maxwell with extra ram and a 10-15 and possibly 20 percent boost in 2k

I dont think this video card should be priced at 679.00 , more like 500 and the 980s like 400.00

but i also think its a great upgrade for 4k users and the monitor industry has already moved to cheaper 4k displays and those owners have the right to have a card like the 980 ti

Not for me personally that runs 2k at 980 SLI overclocked
my extreme bench on 3dmark was 12500 roughly, on my 980 ti sli setup i barely got 14k and that was max overclock with a huge vornado fan that can blow air 100 ft into my case. So Stable was like 13500 and my case got hot and when you run 10 hard drives in a corsair 760t case with a 5 120mm cougar fan setup /Kraken etc i dont want my hard drives idling while exposed to hot air from 2 video cards. I should not have to use a custom fan profile either.

I also think AMD has a great card for Media room setups since they are small and have watercooling stock
Not impressed with any non reference cooling for the 980ti
another reason why i am staying away but since i am a gsync owner i am a die hard fan of the drivers, and other functions of geforce experience. I also like the fact Nvidia shows improvements during driver updates. But sad to say since this card is basically a titan cripple the drivers are probably already going to be optimized the best they can since the titan x has been out for awhile
 
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UnrealCpu said:
I just kinda think this is new maxwell is nothing but a minor improvement over 980 maxwell with extra am and a 10-15 and possibly 20 percent boost in 2k

I dont think this video card should be priced at 679.00 , more like 500 and the 980s like 400.00

but i also think its a great upgrade for 4k users and the monitor industry has already moved to cheaper 4k displays and those owners have the right to have a card like the 980 ti

Not for me personally that runs 2k at 980 SLI overclocked
my extreme bench on 3dmark was 12500 roughly, on my 980 ti sli setup i barely got 14k and that was max overclock with a huge vornado fan that can blow air 100 ft into my case. So Stable was like 13500 and my case got hot and when you run 10 hard drives in a corsair 760t case with a 5 120mm cougar fan setup /Kraken etc i dont want my hard drives idling or getting heat.
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When are you going to understand that 3DMark is just simply SHIT to real world usage, those results are never, listen "NEVER" translate into real world gaming performance, not matte how you want to see it, not matter if a card its only 500 points higher in 3dMARK (which also you have to see at Graphics results and not overall results because its even more shittier to real world). if in real world gaming you see higher improvements. which its certainly the case of 980 vs 980TI.

Where are you getting those stupid numbers in 980 vs 980TI? at 2560x1440 at stock clocks a GTX 980TI its about 20-30% faster than a 980 and that gap just widen with both cards overclocked... if you don't want to see it then you are just blind, let me show you some real numbers Straight from [H].

Witcher 3: 980TI 28% Faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_1.gif


Dying Light: 980TI 29% Faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_3.gif


Far Cry 4: 980TI 26% faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_4.gif
 
DF-1 said:
WCCFtech said the 980 ti would be $700, no wait $800 no wait $850 no wait $500.

yeah, that website can fuck off.
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ROFL

Well I think Nvidia based price off the Fury and AMD is hurting big time . I hope Samsung steps in and stomps on Nvidia to bring back competition. Samsung is a huge company not to be messed with
 
Araxie said:
When are you going to understand that 3DMark is just simply SHIT to real world usage, those results are never, listen "NEVER" translate into real world gaming performance, not matte how you want to see it, not matter if a card its only 500 points higher in 3dMARK (which also you have to see at Graphics results and not overall results because its even more shittier to real world). if in real world gaming you see higher improvements. which its certainly the case of 980 vs 980TI.

Where are you getting those stupid numbers in 980 vs 980TI? at 2560x1440 at stock clocks a GTX 980TI its about 20-30% faster than a 980 and that gap just widen with both cards overclocked... if you don't want to see it then you are just blind, let me show you some real numbers Straight from [H].

Witcher 3: 980TI 28% Faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_1.gif


Dying Light: 980TI 29% Faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_3.gif


Far Cry 4: 980TI 26% faster than 980
1434362721x0aYnDVBA9_8_4.gif
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Stupid numbers? Do you not listen? I already tested both cards in SLI with a max overclock on both cards. 10 or 20 percent at most is what you get going SLI 980 ti over someone who owns 980s overclocked . After selling my cards i would be into a 980ti for about 500-550 dollars to go SLI. Not worth it... i could careless about a 10-15 FPS gain at 2k. Also by the time i play witcher 3 pascal will be out. In the mean time i can play 99% of the games on steam just fine. I guess you could say the GTX 980 ti is only good for people who want to turn up the eye candy so to speak . Other than that until a video card can do 120 fps average in every game at 2k then this upgrade is worthless. Pascal will destroy the Ti when it comes to performance per dollar with less power consumption which mean alot less heat over the 980 ti . Why even come out with a 980ti Nvidia ? Just sell the Titan X for 699.99 with a non reference design and gimp it to 6 gb of memory. Once again i wont be fooled by Nvidia marketing scheme this time around. Im sure hella glad i did not go with the 3.5 gb 970s ... however if i was a 970 owner right now i would dump those asap and jump into ONE 980ti especially if you own a 4k monitor
These are better benchmarks
980-ti-benchmark-gta-4k.png

980-ti-benchmark-witcher-1440.png

GTAV.jpg
 
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PeeWeePee said:
high end GPU is always bad in dollar to performance ratio
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That is a poor generalization as the 980 Ti actually has just as good performance per dollar as the 980. In fact some of the 980 TI non reference cards have slightly better than some non reference 980 cards. What he keeps posting is nonsense as a 980 Ti has quite a huge step over the 980 for people that actually need it. AGAIN he had 980 SLI at 2560x1440 so of course going to 980 Ti SLI at the same res and settings is not a huge jump. And he refused to use DSR to run a higher resolution.
 
UnrealCpu said:
his message is hidden because misterbobby is on your ignore list.
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Yes I know I am on your ignore list and the only reason you posted that was to stir up crap because that's the kind of person you are. I am addressing your BS for others to read not you.

You make short sided comments about the 980 Ti and dont want to hear it when people call you on them. As you can see in this thread no one is agreeing with your ridiculous conclusions about a 980 Ti not being much faster than the 980. I guess pretty soon everyone will be on your ignore list. :rolleyes:
 
I decided on the evga GTX970 SC card today. With windows 10 next week coming and my son pc is running a dx11 card gtx460 he will get my current gtx760.
I think we will both be happy with this upgrade.
gtx 460 1 gig ram
gtx760 2 gig ram

ps. had gift cards on amazon so it cost me 307$
 
Probably the first card top have DP 1.3 which is a big step towards high quality 4k displays
 
jwcalla said:
In terms of features / architecture it seems like Pascal is more oriented towards non-gaming customers. We'll benefit from the new node and all that stuff of course, but I think they're focusing on their HPC customers and the neural network stuff for this round.
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I agree, it seems to be the next Kepler.

Double the transistors of Maxwell but unlikely to be double the performance due to transistor budget for Tesla and DP, so now it's maybe 50-60% faster, and of course depends highly on leakage and how well 16FF will clock compared to 28nm.
 
dragonageinquisition said:
I agree, it seems to be the next Kepler.

Double the transistors of Maxwell but unlikely to be double the performance due to transistor budget for Tesla and DP, so now it's maybe 50-60% faster, and of course depends highly on leakage and how well 16FF will clock compared to 28nm.
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Pascal will destroy all maxwells

i will wait with my 980s in SLI Overclocked
to see my 30-50 % improvement
 
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