Project CARS Devs Address AMD Performance Issues

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There is a post on the Project CARS Steam forum addressing performance issues on AMD based video cards. It seems that the developer is blaming AMD's drivers for the performance issues.

  • We've provided AMD with 20 keys for game testing as they work on the driver side.
  • But you only have to look at the lesser hardware in the consoles to see how optimised we are on AMD based chips.
  • What can I say but he should take better stock of what's happening in his company. We're reaching out to AMD with all of our efforts. We've provided them 20 keys as I say. They were invited to work with us for years.
  • Looking through company mails the last I can see they (AMD) talked to us was October of last year.
  • Categorically, Nvidia have not paid us a penny. They have though been very forthcoming with support and co-marketing work at their instigation.
  • We've had emails back and forth with them yesterday also. I reiterate that this is mainly a driver issue but we'll obviously do anything we can from our side.
  • Some great gains we saw from an earlier driver they released have been lost in a later driver they released. So I'd say driver is where we start.
  • Again, if there's anything we can do we will.
Click to expand...

*UPDATE* AMD says it is working on a fix
 
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Although I am not here to cast stones, I do have to wonder about the claim that Nvidia is doing the work for free. Either they are paying them money or getting advertisement space. On the other hand, I was not even aware that this game is out?
 
But you only have to look at the lesser hardware in the consoles to see how optimised we are on AMD based chips.
Click to expand...
Orly? That is why both consoles are having trouble staying at a steady 30 FPS, the XBONE version has audio cutting out frequently, and the PS4 version has weird temporal aliasing issues along with image doubling during motion blur.

It's easy for them to talk tough while no one can look under the hood themselves.

That being said...
I'm loving the game on my PC :D.
 
Typical AMD, always having good hardware but crappy drivers. I have been supporting them for ages and its generally the same old song and dance....and in case your wondering if im a fan boy, i currently have a 290x. This is a side by side comparison of Project Cars on Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. Can anyone verify if this sort of gain applies to other games in Windows 10?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=35&v=XzFe5OOHZko
 
ManofGod said:
Although I am not here to cast stones, I do have to wonder about the claim that Nvidia is doing the work for free. Either they are paying them money or getting advertisement space. On the other hand, I was not even aware that this game is out?
Click to expand...

Well nvidia provided gameworks libraries to the devs. So... This situation is to be expected. Lots of things could happen that we don't know. Is it really a driver optimization that is needed, or were the gameworks libraries "updated" before launch?
 
Its the game programmers duty to make their game work properly on the hardware, not the other way around.
 
Ah yes, Gameworks. The boogeyman of the PC gaming world.
 
Yakk said:
Well nvidia provided gameworks libraries to the devs. So... This situation is to be expected. Lots of things could happen that we don't know. Is it really a driver optimization that is needed, or were the gameworks libraries "updated" before launch?
Click to expand...


no so true, Nvidia usually have good Dev support (case and example: i am a student and working on image processing for my thesis project and i contacted both Nvidia and AMD for OpenCL/CUDA support, and guess who got back to me with full engineering team support behind them! "Nvidia!!!" and on both CUDA and OpenCL..... while with AMD, just 1 email respond and dead....)

this drives me to use Tegra SoC for embedded design (even is more expensive...) i did evaluate both Nvidia Tegra Dev and AMD's G-Series GX210HA SoC Gizmo board!

AMD Gizmo board is wayyyyyyyy cheaper... but guess what? if i need help and the support is that shitty, why am i wasting my time?

that is just my 2cent, Nvidia is always stand behind Developer... while AMD just throw money at marketing hoping increase market share!
 
AMD will continue to lose market share because of driver problems. WHQL is rarely seen anymore. poor relations with game developers is another problem. :mad:
 
purefun65 said:
AMD will continue to lose market share because of driver problems. WHQL is rarely seen anymore. poor relations with game developers is another problem. :mad:
Click to expand...

You do know that WHQL is basically them paying MS to stick a sticker on the driver package, right?
 
no... the WHQL signing is now free....(more of 1 time big lump sum at beginning)
 
Not sure why this is an issue. If they would just write things to DX standards, isn't that supposed to get rid of all this individual make/driver modification shit ?
 
Someone has finally come out and said what I've experienced for the last 10 years with ATI/AMD GPU products......

They just put out late and crappy drivers, sure it happens on the NVidia side too, but AMD jesus.....

I feel like an abused child....I just keep coming back for another beating.:eek: hoping against hope that this time it will be different......

It doesn't look like there's ever going to be a cure for this.:(
 
nVidia logos all over the game "They didn't pay us a dime" so did they code a lot of the engine or something.
It's pretty bad that project cars team can't actually point to a specific driver and say "We used 14.11 for all our development and it ran a constant 70FPS on ultra with a 290x" You can't blame AMD without actually saying "this version of your drivers worked then your broke it after"
 
Next time don't use Gameworks guys, simple really, ask other developers how they do it.
 
magoo said:
Someone has finally come out and said what I've experienced for the last 10 years with ATI/AMD GPU products......

They just put out late and crappy drivers, sure it happens on the NVidia side too, but AMD jesus.....

I feel like an abused child....I just keep coming back for another beating.:eek: hoping against hope that this time it will be different......

It doesn't look like there's ever going to be a cure for this.:(
Click to expand...

It's a gameworks game, nVidia's blackbox. Nuff Said.
 
Steve said:
There is a post on the Project CARS Steam forum addressing performance issues on AMD based video cards. It seems that the developer is blaming AMD's drivers for the performance issues.



*UPDATE* AMD says it is working on a fix
Click to expand...

it seams the only way to get amd to fix shit is publicly shame them or call them out this needs to happen more perhaps they can get on par with nvidias driver updates.
 
I tried very hard to get on with AMD drivers, twice they have pushed me back to NVidia due to negligence and incompetence.
And this was despite my wanting to take a stand against NVidia for hiding the GTX970 3.5GB fiasco, my hand was forced though.
AMD had 1.5 years to sort the most basic of showstopper issues yet they still remain.

I'm so gad I got rid of my 290x and bought a GTX980 this week. See ya, wouldnt want to be ya :p
I like my PC again.

Looking forward to this game now!
 
TechLarry said:
Not sure why this is an issue. If they would just write things to DX standards, isn't that supposed to get rid of all this individual make/driver modification shit ?
Click to expand...

Even if they did it still would happen cause its just how it works.Some times modifications for 1 game causes problems for another that hasn't been released.
 
Don't worry guys, get the 390X when it comes out. No doubt it'll be able to brute force it past the driver issues like every new AMD part. Then the cycle continues until DX12 finally comes to save the day.
 
Looking through company mails the last I can see they (AMD) talked to us was October of last year.
Click to expand...

AMD fans are blaming the game developer, nvidia and aliens for their shitty drivers. When it's clear they are not even trying.
 
PRIME1 said:
AMD fans are blaming the game developer, nvidia and aliens for their shitty drivers. When it's clear they are not even trying.
Click to expand...

Nvidia fans are blaming AMD fans when it is clear they are not even trying. :D
 
purefun65 said:
If you believe that. I SUPPOSE AMD is too cheap for that sticker payment. :eek:
Click to expand...

allenpan said:
no... the WHQL signing is now free....(more of 1 time big lump sum at beginning)
Click to expand...

News to me..

In any case, unless something else has changed, it takes around a month to get a driver WHQL signed.

So AMD releases a "beta" driver and then sends it to MS to get WHQL signed. A month later they can now release the same exact beta driver, but now it is WHQL signed.

So what exactly is the purpose of WHQL signing?

Just because it is signed doesn't mean it will be any better than the beta driver.
 
Has anybody tried this on Windows 10 TP yet?

The AMD driver that is in Windows 10 seems quite a bit faster(less bottlenecked) than the Windows 7/8 driver.

This is also evidenced by multiple benchmarks including the DX11 test in 3dmark for draw calls.
 
shad0w4life said:
nVidia logos all over the game "They didn't pay us a dime" so did they code a lot of the engine or something.
It's pretty bad that project cars team can't actually point to a specific driver and say "We used 14.11 for all our development and it ran a constant 70FPS on ultra with a 290x" You can't blame AMD without actually saying "this version of your drivers worked then your broke it after"
Click to expand...


Came here to agree with this. Most of the previews I've seen on review sites the last few days have a bunch of nvidia logos on the tracks as you race in the game. I'm not saying AMD is completely blameless, but nvidia was clearly involved during the development of this game very early on. Otherwise, why put their logos on the tracks?
 
They might be having a dig at AMD for taking away the performance they already had and not contributing anything since.
 
This sounds like a case of developer sucking at developing. AMD drivers haven't had any issues with AAA titles this year. Why is suddenly Project CARS so unique?
 
Nvidia "help" with games very often goes beyond just throwing a set of libraries at them and calling it good. I have heard from a couple of devs who have asked for help from both AMD and Nvidia with their rendering engines. In one instance an Nvidia engineer was on a plane that night to the studio, while AMD never even returned a call.

I'm not saying this is always the case, but talk to a good number of developers and you will see a clear pattern of AMD historically being lackluster in support.

As for coding to DX standards, yeah, that is a HUGE issue with current game devs. A LOT of the code in drivers is hacks to correct for incredibly incompetent coding on individual titles. In some cases entire blocks of code are overridden on the driver side because the rendering engine is so bad. I'm talking about things like not even initializing the D3D API correctly.
 
Wierdo said:
It's a gameworks game, nVidia's blackbox. Nuff Said.
Click to expand...

That shouldn't prevent them from keeping in contact with a game dev. :rolleyes:

Keep your fanboy bias in check. If nothing else its documented through many source nvidia does a better job of supporting devs while AMD may not even respond.
 
allenpan said:
no so true, Nvidia usually have good Dev support (case and example: i am a student and working on image processing for my thesis project and i contacted both Nvidia and AMD for OpenCL/CUDA support, and guess who got back to me with full engineering team support behind them! "Nvidia!!!" and on both CUDA and OpenCL..... while with AMD, just 1 email respond and dead....)

this drives me to use Tegra SoC for embedded design (even is more expensive...) i did evaluate both Nvidia Tegra Dev and AMD's G-Series GX210HA SoC Gizmo board!

AMD Gizmo board is wayyyyyyyy cheaper... but guess what? if i need help and the support is that shitty, why am i wasting my time?

that is just my 2cent, Nvidia is always stand behind Developer... while AMD just throw money at marketing hoping increase market share!
Click to expand...

Agreed, having good support is essential for development. Both companies have support, and like any sort sometimes it's the luck of who you get to talk to that makes a big difference.


AVogel said:
Nvidia "help" with games very often goes beyond just throwing a set of libraries at them and calling it good. I have heard from a couple of devs who have asked for help from both AMD and Nvidia with their rendering engines. In one instance an Nvidia engineer was on a plane that night to the studio, while AMD never even returned a call.

I'm not saying this is always the case, but talk to a good number of developers and you will see a clear pattern of AMD historically being lackluster in support.

As for coding to DX standards, yeah, that is a HUGE issue with current game devs. A LOT of the code in drivers is hacks to correct for incredibly incompetent coding on individual titles. In some cases entire blocks of code are overridden on the driver side because the rendering engine is so bad. I'm talking about things like not even initializing the D3D API correctly.
Click to expand...

Yup, DX11 (and under) is a real, real mess. Sooner it's gone, the better at this point.
 
Steve said:
There is a post on the Project CARS Steam forum addressing performance issues on AMD based video cards. It seems that the developer is blaming AMD's drivers for the performance issues.



*UPDATE* AMD says it is working on a fix
Click to expand...

PRECISELY why I own nVidia exclusively now. So many driver issues with AMD.
 
Ultima99 said:
That shouldn't prevent them from keeping in contact with a game dev. :rolleyes:

Keep your fanboy bias in check. If nothing else its documented through many source nvidia does a better job of supporting devs while AMD may not even respond.
Click to expand...

It's a black box, you can't see inside, it's difficult to debug or optimize around that, the game dev decided to take a shortcut by using it and it bit them in the ass, sure AMD should do better with dev relations, but this would be allot easier if the Devs didn't chain themselves to a proprietary optimization barrier.

And for the record I use a Geforce, but I know BS when I see it. It's just common sense to hammer this point so other devs don't go this lazy route again in the future - one would hope.
 
Dev: Uh, AMD? Hi... so here's the thing: We designed our game using your competitor's proprietary development solution and they of course wouldn't wanna help us optimize for their competition but they're really nice with optimizing for themselves when we ask.

Can you help us support their stuff for us on their behalf?

*click*
 
Rav3n said:
PRECISELY why I own nVidia exclusively now. So many driver issues with AMD.
Click to expand...

Nice to see a developer throw AMD under the bus publicly for something many other game developers have stated in the past.

Is "bang for the buck" worth all the driver issues? In the current state of the GPU industry, I would wait until you could afford a decent nVidia card.
 
Wierdo said:
Dev: Uh, AMD? Hi... so here's the thing: We designed our game using your competitor's proprietary development solution and they of course wouldn't wanna help us optimize for their competition but they're really nice with optimizing for themselves when we ask.

Can you help us support their stuff for us on their behalf?

*click*
Click to expand...

LoL... AMD did minor miracles actually getting the last batch of Gameworks titles from ubisoft working (well working as well as an ubisoft game can). This gameworks revision probably was able to knock out those old gameworks codepaths workarounds.
 
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