NSA Likely Targets Anybody Who's 'Tor-Curious'

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
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There was once a time when you could have an expectation of privacy and in the extreme, be innocent until proven guilty. It seems those days are past us now and all it takes for the NSA to suspect a user of wrongdoing is to be guilty of looking for information on the Tor network.

Snowden's X-Keyscore files indicated that it allowed NSA employees to obtain a person's phone number or email address, view the content of email, and observe full Internet activity including browsing history without a warrant.
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The question is no longer whether or not if NSA would build dossiers on everyone and anyone, but rather on how to hold NSA accountable.

I don't know. What do you Americans think when it comes to oversight and balances to NSA's black box operation?
 
Parmenides said:
Why worry unless you have something to hide? ;)
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I'm assuming that was sarcasm because of the winkie face.

History has plenty of lessons on why that exact reasoning is wrong and why our country was set up to prevent such abuses.
 
I think the NSA is actually trying to create a terrorist organization here in the US.
 
I use to think people were nothing but tin foil hat wearers...and then this happened and I really started to think about what America was founded for...and it wasn't to be spied on. I don't have the answer to what we as people should do, but I no longer think people that talk about a revolution are nuts.

Our great nation was founded because of a revolution because people weren't happy with their government, why can't that happen again in modern times?

Our government is overstepping what they should be allowed to do and we need to do something about it.
 
Besides wanting protection from the government when deriding that very same government for anything if you don't have anything to hide what's the suspicion?
 
so NSA is spying on me.....................cool :D :cool:................... hey NSA, Go F*ck yourself...running
 
The NSA and other government agencies have grown in power because Americans are cowards. Some will allow any expansion of power all the name of "keeping us safe."
 
The whole keeping us safe crap is the same shit any one looking to abuse power would claim.
Its what tricks the most people.
 
Congrats USA. This is the result of giving up freedom for terrorist laws.
 
What has this world gone to when you can't be EXTREME! without being put on some list.
 
MajorDomo said:
There was once a time when you could have an expectation of privacy
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Not on the Internet.

Anyone who thinks they are entitled to privacy on the Internet is an idiot. Anyone who thinks they have ever had privacy on the Internet is a fool.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
The whole keeping us safe crap is the same shit any one looking to abuse power would claim.
Its what tricks the most people.
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Or it could mean they are really be trying to keep us safe and you're over thinking it.

So what is someone supposed to say if they are trying to keep you safe? Fuck everyone your ass is screwed, j/k we're the good guys LOL?

Just saying.

People need to remember Snowden lied, cheated, and stole to get what he had then commited treason, ran away to China then Russia, sounds legit to me. Class A citizen I'd trust for sure...
 
xX326Xx said:
People need to remember Snowden lied, cheated, and stole to get what he had then commited treason, ran away to China then Russia, sounds legit to me. Class A citizen I'd trust for sure...
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So?

Judge each fact/piece of information by it's own merit. I don't care how or why we have the truth, just that we have the truth. Oh, none of those things are any worse than what the NSA did/does IMO, in fact I think the NSA is much worse. Theft is nothing compared to the systematic violation of practically our whole populations rights being violated.
 
evilsofa said:
Anyone who thinks they are entitled to privacy on the Internet is an idiot.
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Words converted to electrical impulses by a telephone and sent over wires to someone else is totally fucking different than words converted to electrical impulses by a keyboard and sent over wires someone else. You know, because the internets changed everything and anyone who can't see that is an idiot...
 
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?

And to the TOR users targeted: HA! I told you so! Anyone using encryption/TOR while not working for government or secret projects is automatically suspicious. Not only in NSAs eyes but mine too.
 
There are jurisdictions where anyone who thinks that they are entitled to privacy when they communicate in any way, shape or form is an idiot.

Don't rejoice about keeping your thoughts to yourself. The tinfoil hats are warning that anyone who thinks that they are entitled to privacy when they exist in any way, shape or form is an idiot.
 
B00nie said:
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?

And to the TOR users targeted: HA! I told you so! Anyone using encryption/TOR while not working for government or secret projects is automatically suspicious. Not only in NSAs eyes but mine too.
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At this rate, anyone that doesn't have a Facebook profile is automatically suspicious...
 
B00nie said:
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?
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:D

We must choose between "the land of teh free and home of the brave" or "OMG!!!9/11Mushroomcloud9/11no-one-could-have-predictedterrorist!!!". There are no other possibilities.
 
NSA targeting people interested in The Old Republic Story or game? That's just silly.
 
If you want a picture of the future, imagine the NSA stamping on the Constitution — forever.
 
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?
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I do not understand how one can go through history classes learning of all the human rights violations that occurred because too few had too much power. Even our own American history shows us that the NSA is truly acting in an non american fashion.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
I do not understand how one can go through history classes learning of all the human rights violations that occurred because too few had too much power. Even our own American history shows us that the NSA is truly acting in an non american fashion.
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The good news is that your country is not going through a second McCarthyist witch hunt when it comes to online anonymity. It would be horrifying if merely advocating for anonymity would be enough ground to persecute you. I certainly don't mean the likes of Snowden here, but just average Joes that would dare complain about changes to Facebook's TOS...
 
B00nie said:
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?

And to the TOR users targeted: HA! I told you so! Anyone using encryption/TOR while not working for government or secret projects is automatically suspicious. Not only in NSAs eyes but mine too.
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like the boston bombing?

like fort hood?

the gifford shooting?

which modern real-world examples?
 
B00nie said:
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?

And to the TOR users targeted: HA! I told you so! Anyone using encryption/TOR while not working for government or secret projects is automatically suspicious. Not only in NSAs eyes but mine too.
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hmm right. so, please do tell, how many terrorist attacks domestic or otherwise did this surveillance prevent? so far they only got a taxi driver who transfered money to a terrorist organization. whooo, amazing. money well spent.

the issue with this whole surveillance thing is that they claim "nothing has happened because we were closely monitoring terrorists and secretly arresting them". if something happens it's "we didn't have enough data, we need more surveillance". this belief in the cybernetic approach "big data - if you have enough data now, you can predict the future (pioneered by norbert wiener)" simply does not work.

also, i can somehow understand if people accept that the rest of the world needs to be under surveillance (not just high profile targets, but each and every civilian), but why are there people who think that even in their own country it's ok to have mass surveillance?
 
B00nie said:
So you guys would rather accept getting a second 911 or two just to keep your privacy from automated data mining scripts? Is that a good tradeoff?

And to the TOR users targeted: HA! I told you so! Anyone using encryption/TOR while not working for government or secret projects is automatically suspicious. Not only in NSAs eyes but mine too.
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We would rather the government not let terrorists in the country on purpose (Boston Marathon Bombers?), enforce existing immigration laws, not support terrorist regimes and not hire criminals into presidential cabinet positions, etc.

I think those actions would better mitigate a second 9-11 type event than spying on every citizen of the country.

As for the TOR thing, the actual XKeyscore source code revealed that users residing within the 5 I's (The international alliance comprising the IK, Australia, New Zealand, USA and Canada) are exempt from surveillance from the SKeyscore program.

Funny how not many people here read that part of the ZDnet article.
 
aardvark sandwich said:
like the boston bombing?

like fort hood?

the gifford shooting?

which modern real-world examples?
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The Gifford shooting was not done by any terrorist organization (unless you call democrats terrorists, in which case I agree). Remember, the perpetrator was a mentally disturbed person...err, I mean a democrat, who was mad because he felt his own party let him down.
 
xX326Xx said:
People need to remember Snowden lied, cheated, and stole to get what he had then commited treason, ran away to China then Russia, sounds legit to me. Class A citizen I'd trust for sure...
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Uh, is there a better way to expose a corrupt gov't who would lock you up and throw away the key for telling the truth? Snowden sacrificed his life for this. You think he enjoyed being on the run? And still being on the run? You think he likes having to look over his shoulder even in Russia? Waiting for that day somebody either sells him out and throws a hood over his head and puts him on a C-17, or his brakes suddenly fail driving to the store?

What exactly has he gained as a result of his treason? Because without a motive, your trust issues should fall flat. You think he's just partying it up over there? You think somebody paid him? He lived, LIVED, in an airport terminal for over a month.

None of the things revealed by him have been that outlandish. They all fall well without the realm of typical gov't conspiracy and what we as IT professionals know could happen. We never really quite knew for sure, mainly because of the cost and scope of executing such a system. But between you and me we are aware that the technology exists, you just gotta have the funds to throw at it.
 
So we start a big campaign to get as many people as possible using TOR?

Take it mainstream.
 
Remember around the turn of the century the Internet in general was still seen as pretty underground by the mainstream.

Things change as more people get involved and accept it.
 
gigatexal said:
Besides wanting protection from the government when deriding that very same government for anything if you don't have anything to hide what's the suspicion?
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We haven't been protected by the government since WWII. /Don't need their protection at home or abroad.
 
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