Forget Haswell-E, Configure An E5-2697V2 System

[Weeth]

I believe it's better to start a new thread than to extend

Starting to plan my Haswell-E build

since we have to change plans.

There are two basic reasons why I'm giving up on Haswell-E:

1. I can't wait until mid to late Q3 to replace my system
2. The RAM situation is simply unacceptable

There is no way that I can commit to a system that maxes out on 64GB RAM as I can see requiring 128GB RAM on Day One and likely more within a year... and the expected pricing in Q3 for 4x16GB DDR4 well outweighs the extra cost of a full Xeon 12 core, so the decision has been made. Goodbye Haswell-E and your insufficient RAM capacity. Hello E5-2697V2.

Lots of questions now on this system configuration:

1. Go single or (gasp!) dual socket?
2. Anything in a 12 core Xeon coming out soon that's faster than 2.7GHz base (have a pig of a single core proprietary app I gotta run)?
3. Any way to set the 3.5GHz Turbo on by default whenever running that horrible app?
4. Does it need to be ECC RAM?
5. What RAM specs (speed, latency) are best for this CPU?
6. Any reason why Noctua NH-D14 is not the best cooling solution (and of course it will fit, right)?
7. What are the best fit motherboards in either 1C or 2C (need an absolute minimum of 8 RAM slots, 12 or 16 preferred)
8. Any mobos out there with Thunderbolt2 for the display?
9. Otherwise, is there any way to run a 4K display without the silly monitor splitting that most video cards seem to do?
10. Asus or Dell for the 31.5" 4K display?
11. Which video card?

Well, that should get us started!

 

[plugwash]

[*]Go single or (gasp!) dual socket?

IMO if you are building a 12 core system you are better off with 2x6 than 1x12. Doing so will get you higher clock speeds, more ram channels (which means higher max ram) and more PCIe.

 

[Weeth]

IMO if you are building a 12 core system you are better off with 2x6 than 1x12. Doing so will get you higher clock speeds, more ram channels (which means higher max ram) and more PCIe.

What I really want is the e-peen... er... power of 24 full cores but that may simply be unaffordable. That's $5K just in CPUs and there isn't much chance I could justify that. However, If something like the E5-4627V2 comes in well below $2K I could certainly try to justify a 16 core system at 3.3GHz. That would give me the extra speed on the single-core Jurassic App and let me pile on as much RAM as my greedy little heart desired!

 

[lutjens]

I'd be all over the E5-2697V2s if they were unlocked, and would buy a box of 5 of these processors if this were the case. Awesome chips with incredible potential, that is unfortunately arrogantly and ignorantly locked away by Intel. You can't force the x35 multiplier for all cores AFAIK, the best you can hope for is a couple of MHz on the bus with the maximum x30 all core multiplier.

The RAM situation with Haswell-E is rumored...the rated memory speed quoted (2133) is indeed with one DPC, but I've seen nothing concrete that indicates that Haswell-E will be limited to one DPC.

The only exception is perhaps the 8 core E5-1680V2, which might be unlocked (still not confirmed one way or the other). These chips have been deigned OEM-only like more and more new computer hardware of late and probably won't be available in the channel (if they ever are) until they become obsolete and are ready to be replaced. I've become very frustrated with this OEM-only path that more and more hardware manufacturers seem to be taking, and will be sitting very firmly on my wallet, only buying what I absolutely need hardware-wise. I'm moving more and more away from computers as a hobby into something more worthwhile where participants are actually respected and not offered merely scraps.

 

[Weeth]

I'd be all over the E5-2697V2s if they were unlocked, and would buy a box of 5 of these processors if this were the case. Awesome chips with incredible potential, that is unfortunately arrogantly and ignorantly locked away by Intel. You can't force the x35 multiplier for all cores AFAIK, the best you can hope for is a couple of MHz on the bus with the maximum x30 all core multiplier.

The RAM situation with Haswell-E is rumored...the rated memory speed quoted (2133) is indeed with one DPC, but I've seen nothing concrete that indicates that Haswell-E will be limited to one DPC.

The only exception is perhaps the 8 core E5-1680V2, which might be unlocked (still not confirmed one way or the other). These chips have been deigned OEM-only like more and more new computer hardware of late and probably won't be available in the channel (if they ever are) until they become obsolete and are ready to be replaced. I've become very frustrated with this OEM-only path that more and more hardware manufacturers seem to be taking, and will be sitting very firmly on my wallet, only buying what I absolutely need hardware-wise. I'm moving more and more away from computers as a hobby into something more worthwhile where participants are actually respected and not offered merely scraps.

Given that this is a workstation I'd like to give it a mild OC as I have with my current 3930K but it's not a dealbreaker to run it at stock speed. If I can get mid 3s GHz base I'm happy.

As for the 4 DIMM limit, that previous thread:

Starting to plan my Haswell-E build

Had an Intel graphic posted by Tsumi which is quite categorical about it. I'd been hoping that wouldn't be the case, but I think that there may be no way to escape it.

The Xeon 4 series are supposed to be for 4C systems but they should work fine on a 2C, or am I wrong?

I agree with you that the manufacturers have killed the whole computers as a hobby thing. I make my living with my PC but if I were an enthusiast for enthusiast's sake, I would have long ago walked away. The air went out of the balloon the day Bulldozer came out and announced to the world that the CPU biz was now a monopoly.

 

[Warrior]

Given that this is a workstation I'd like to give it a mild OC as I have with my current 3930K but it's not a dealbreaker to run it at stock speed. If I can get mid 3s GHz base I'm happy.

It already does that on Turbo-Boost.

 

[Nathan_P]

2.7 is as fast as it goes at the moment, no news of anything faster for the 12 core cpu's
ECC ram is a must, a xeon Ivy E equipped mobo will not boot with normal ram even if it says it should
Cooler fit will depend on the mobo you purchase, especially if going 2P
Video card - the best you can afford.
Mobo's, either supermicro or asus for the 2P solution, single cpu may give you the option of a consumer board if it supports xeon but you may be ram limited. There are other 2p boards available but retailer availability is patchy at best.
If you look hard enough you need not get retail chips ;-). I have ten xeon cpu's, only 2 are retail

 

[Weeth]

It already does that on Turbo-Boost.

Can you set Turbo-Boost on the Xeons to automatically engage on the launch of a specfic app, or is it only either manual or automatically dictated by CPU load?

2.7 is as fast as it goes at the moment, no news of anything faster for the 12 core cpu's
ECC ram is a must, a xeon Ivy E equipped mobo will not boot with normal ram even if it says it should
Cooler fit will depend on the mobo you purchase, especially if going 2P
Video card - the best you can afford.
Mobo's, either supermicro or asus for the 2P solution, single cpu may give you the option of a consumer board if it supports xeon but you may be ram limited. There are other 2p boards available but retailer availability is patchy at best.
If you look hard enough you need not get retail chips ;-). I have ten xeon cpu's, only 2 are retail

You have to forgive me for what may seem as stupid questions but this is my first foray out of prosumer CPUs and into enterprise stuff. So, the 2697V2 is just about the fastest we can get at this time, has to have ECC, good luck figuring out the cooler & go Asus or Supermicro. Got it. However, can you please tell me more about the retail vs. non-retail thing and which one is better and why? Is it an OEM difference, or an engineering factor or ???

 

[somebrains]

If you aren't booked on jobs that you can offset the invoice on I'd look at having a chat with CDW, Dell, Lenovo, HP to finance a box.

Even if your pockets are deep enough, the time spent on your storage + network takes away from production time. I can't think of any good ad/content agency in SF that wasn't rendering on AWS and keeping their gear footprint as light as possible.

 

[lutjens]

Given that this is a workstation I'd like to give it a mild OC as I have with my current 3930K but it's not a dealbreaker to run it at stock speed. If I can get mid 3s GHz base I'm happy.

As for the 4 DIMM limit, that previous thread:

Starting to plan my Haswell-E build

Had an Intel graphic posted by Tsumi which is quite categorical about it. I'd been hoping that wouldn't be the case, but I think that there may be no way to escape it.

The Xeon 4 series are supposed to be for 4C systems but they should work fine on a 2C, or am I wrong?

I agree with you that the manufacturers have killed the whole computers as a hobby thing. I make my living with my PC but if I were an enthusiast for enthusiast's sake, I would have long ago walked away. The air went out of the balloon the day Bulldozer came out and announced to the world that the CPU biz was now a monopoly.

The E5-2697V2, if you are very lucky, may allow you to run 105 MHz on the bus for an absolute maximum speed of 3150 MHz. Faster simply isn't possible, unless you are willing to use a GTX580, which seems to be more tolerant of a higher bus speed in some cases. The turbo multis that are theoretically up to x35 are very unlikely to be seen unless you disable the excess cores in the BIOS.

The Haswell-E graphic you posted states 1 DPC at 2133MHz. It doesn't explicitly state 1 DPC maximum. The 2133MHz speed stated may mean that only 1 DPC is supported at that speed, and it's quite possible that 2 DPC may be supported at a lower speed.

 

[lutjens]

ECC ram is a must, a xeon Ivy E equipped mobo will not boot with normal ram even if it says it should

I have to disagree with you on this point. The Xeons will work with unbuffered RAM and many server manufacturers include unbufered RAM in their configuration options.

Cooler fit will depend on the mobo you purchase, especially if going 2P

This may be an issue depending on the exact unit that's chosen. Some Xeon E5 machines use the narrow ILM, which drastically restricts your options when it comes to coolers. One has to be very mindful of which ILM is used on the particular board...Narrow or Square.

Video card - the best you can afford.

Depends on what his exact needs are. The GTX580 has been shown to be more tolerant of higher PCI-E bus speeds and may be an option that'll permit him to extract some more MHz on the CPU, but at the expense of a last generation video card offering last generation performance

Mobo's, either supermicro or asus for the 2P solution, single cpu may give you the option of a consumer board if it supports xeon but you may be ram limited. There are other 2p boards available but retailer availability is patchy at best.

Using a server as a workstation is also an option, as many servers today offer PCI-E power supplies to drive GPGPU cards.

If you look hard enough you need not get retail chips ;-). I have ten xeon cpu's, only 2 are retail

For a production machine, the risk of encountering early stepping CPUs with erratas or other bugs isn't worth taking.

 

[Weeth]

Great to know about the unbuffered RAM option, I'll definitely try to get as much space around the ILM as I possibly can, as for the video card I have to make sure that it can comfortably drive 4K, I definitely want as many RAM slots as practicable, but I'm still confused on the retail chip angle. Are we saying that I should check to see that it's not an early issue CPU?

 

[drescherjm]

I have to disagree with you on this point. The Xeons will work with unbuffered RAM and many server manufacturers include unbufered RAM in their configuration options.

ECC does not need to be registered. I have had lga1155 server boards that would not boot with non ECC unbuffered ram (they wont take reg ecc either).

 

[lutjens]

ECC does not need to be registered. I have had lga1155 server boards that would not boot with non ECC unbuffered ram (they wont take reg ecc either).

I agree, ECC memory doesn't need to be registered. The Xeon will support both, registered ECC and un-registered ECC, as well as non-ECC RAM. In order for the registered ECC memory to work, however, the board has to explicitly support it. Typically, boards that support Registered ECC, will also support un-registered ECC, but not every board that supports un-registered ECC will support Registered ECC.

In your situation, the board you used likely just didn't play well with the type of unbuffered memory you used, but the CPU itself will support all types. What motherboard were you using with which type of RAM?

 

[lutjens]

Great to know about the unbuffered RAM option, I'll definitely try to get as much space around the ILM as I possibly can, as for the video card I have to make sure that it can comfortably drive 4K, I definitely want as many RAM slots as practicable, but I'm still confused on the retail chip angle. Are we saying that I should check to see that it's not an early issue CPU?

You should avoid ES CPUs for production work, as often they are pre-release, early stepping CPUs with errata and bugs that have been corrected in production CPUs. As for the difference between retail and OEM, there is no difference, except the length of the included warranty. Often the price difference between OEM and Retail is negligible, so I'd recommend the Retail version (especially for the higher end, most expensive models), simply for the warranty.

 

[Weeth]

You should avoid ES CPUs for production work, as often they are pre-release, early stepping CPUs with errata and bugs that have been corrected in production CPUs. As for the difference between retail and OEM, there is no difference, except the length of the included warranty. Often the price difference between OEM and Retail is negligible, so I'd recommend the Retail version (especially for the higher end, most expensive models), simply for the warranty.

Ok, got it. Thanks. I've steered way clear of ES CPUs since almost fifteen years ago when I got one because of my noobie error and not only was it a way early ES but it had been OC'd to the point of frying. Since then I've only bought CPUs in sealed factory packs.