AMD: Doing The Work For Everyone

Michaelius said:
Hmm are they really ?
When the technology is open there is no force behind it to push it's adoption.

OpenGL games are a drop in a sea compared to DirectX stuff
OpenCL as alternative to PhysX is literally non existing
OpenCL is losing to CUDA
AMD open linux drivers are tragic compared to closed Nvidia ones
Nvidia 3D is lot more popular
TresFX was used in 1 game

So no as a consumer I don't feel like a winner because technology is open when noone uses it.
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Don't think you are comparing apples to apple here.

Nvidia is the more popular video card. I agree. (since you seem to be a fanboy)
And their support is better on the Linux side than AMD is. (very bad for AMD; they are playing catch up now.)

BUT it sure seems Nvidias way of doing things lean toward proprietary solution rather than open ones.

We are talking about what method they each support variable vertical blanking tech.
Nvidias solutions "Buy our card with G-Sync and a G-Sync certified monitor from one of these vendors".

AMDs is "We support the new variable blanking spec in the new VESA specs".
Most most of the newer monitors going forward will build their to support the new VESA specs.
This is just 2 different business minded approaches.
Nvidias is "it belongs to us, pay us"
AMD's "it is the new standard we are supporting, choose the supporting monitor you want"
 
SGA76 said:
Why should Intel and AMD exist separate then?
IBM developed the X86, Intel and AMD refined it.
If it wasn't for the cross license agreement between Intel and AMD we all might be running ARM or Power PC chips right now. That agreement made the X86 explode and become the backbone of modern computing.
Hell if Intel hadn't paid companies like Dell and HP to keep AMD out, Intel and AMD could have very easily flipped positions and we'd be rooting for Intel as the underdog. Too bad damage was done. Intel paid its fines and kept its throne.

Imagine if AMD and Nvidia did the same.
Cuda, Physx and Mantle fully supported on all GPUs.
And with Mantle fully supported, PC gaming transcends Windows.
Free BSD, Linux, Windows, OSX... They all get a big immediate boost, cross platform coding becomes easier because now its ONE language instead of 100, we all win.
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And after all of that, Intel still crushed AMD in CPUs.
A company still needs something to separate itself from the other.
It's silly to expect everyone sharing tech and all boats to be lifted. That's a pipe dream.

If all tech are the same, people will choose the best from the bunch i.e. Intel.
If each company has a exclusive feature that the people want, consumers will buy based on that need i.e. competition.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Don't think you are comparing apples to apple here.

Nvidia is the more popular video card. I agree. (since you seem to be a fanboy)
And their support is better on the Linux side than AMD is. (very bad for AMD; they are playing catch up now.)

BUT it sure seems Nvidias way of doing things lean toward proprietary solution rather than open ones.

We are talking about what method they each support variable vertical blanking tech.
Nvidias solutions "Buy our card with G-Sync and a G-Sync certified monitor from one of these vendors".

AMDs is "We support the new variable blanking spec in the new VESA specs".
Most most of the newer monitors going forward will build their to support the new VESA specs.
This is just 2 different business minded approaches.
Nvidias is "it belongs to us, pay us"
AMD's "it is the new standard we are supporting, choose the supporting monitor you want"
Click to expand...

The difference is that the NVIDIA solution has already been released and reviewed. While the AMD solution has no timetable of ever seeing the light of day.

Not to mention that the NVIDIA solution is specifically designed to make games smoother while VBLANK is not intended for that purpose. Which is probably why (even though it's been out for years) no one has used it for that. AMD has no current plans to release a product based on it.
 
PRIME1 said:
The difference is that the NVIDIA solution has already been released and reviewed. While the AMD solution has no timetable of ever seeing the light of day.

Not to mention that the NVIDIA solution is specifically designed to make games smoother while VBLANK is not intended for that purpose. Which is probably why (even though it's been out for years) no one has used it for that. AMD has no current plans to release a product based on it.
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Since you know the future so well, could I get the next Mega Millions winning numbers?
 
darkstarcow said:
Since you know the future so well, could I get the next Mega Millions winning numbers?
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Since vsync is not a huge issue for me as we ll as I imagine the majority of gamers I certainly can wait to see if AMD's solution is implemented, especially if cheaper. Not many are going to get rid of perfectly good monitors for the privilege of paying more and being tied into strictly using Nvidia cards for the life of the monitors. Bash AMD all you want but that's the bottom line.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
nVidia is welcome to use the technology. Of course we all know that nVidia will block it and screw their "customers" as has always been nVidia policy. We also all know that nVidia has fans, not customers, just like Apple. I'm still not fully sold on either of them yet, AMD's software has been so bad so many times, but at least a statement has been made to throw down the gauntlet, competition is an awesome thing.
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Please. Like AMD doesn't have fans that are insane. I have used both. Given my decreasing free time and disposable income I'm willing to dump into video cards, I'm likely to avoid two things in the future SLI/crossfire, and AMD cards. Pretty much for the reason you stated. AMD has fallen on it's face in the driver department too many times on games I personally like, but may not be the benchmarkers' favorites. Nvidia SLI has been similar, and AMD crossfire had basically a $300+ paperweight that used electricity that peaked at a best result of not actually harming performance or visual quality. I don't have time to play beta tester until the end of my card's useful life, and AMD has screwed me over more in that department. These days it's nvidia on the tock, and all I've suffered for it is some FPS that don't seem to be impacting game play and visual quality much if at all.

In the end, WE the consumer are irrelevant. I'm on the same team you are, and would buy whatever works, and the more bang something gets me for my buck, the more I'm for it. WE however are not who determines what tech wins. I can't recall oany of this stuff being decided by the vast majority of the market buying into a tech and then devs grudgingly providing support. It will be decided by the game devs. Right now it is interesting, because NVIDIA like always will pay devs to support closed standards, and AMD who usually creates some half-assed open implementation that is never finished has the weight of both major consoles behind it's architecture right now. Normally, if the announcement were team green, we'd say ok, it'll be in games, but the devs won't make their game that proprietary, so will it make it look awesomely cool or not? If it were team red, we'd shrug and say ideologically I'm down with you, but call me when the software that doesn't suck and uses it shows up. THen we'd wait aorund until MS declared any real moves in video card technology by changing the DX standard.

In the end, with mantle, nvidia is not relevant. The question is will it displace DX on the or Open GL. That's a pretty tall order. The only reason they haven't been laughed off the internet is because right now, outside of mobile, you have PC gaming, XB1, PS4, and the steambox, and they are ALL basically x86 PCs with a DX11/Open GL 4.X capable video card. IF you ever could have a watershed move, it's now. But good luck with that.
 
Michaelius said:
OpenGL games are a drop in a sea compared to DirectX stuff
OpenCL as alternative to PhysX is literally non existing
OpenCL is losing to CUDA
AMD open linux drivers are tragic compared to closed Nvidia ones
Nvidia 3D is lot more popular
TresFX was used in 1 game
Click to expand...
OpenGL is the #1 API if you look outside of Windows. On a Windows PC, sure it's DirectX, but Android uses OpenGL, as does Apple products, and Linux. So generally, OpenGL destroys Direct3D.

OpenCL right now is responsible for a huge price increase in graphic cards. So anyone wondering why graphic cards cost so much lately, this is why. While the only game I can think of that uses it is Dolphin, and it's nearly useless for the emulator, on the other hand Bitcoin mining has exploded. In Bitcoin mining, AMD destroys Nvidia. There are Cuda bitcoin miners, but OpenCL is just better.
So no as a consumer I don't feel like a winner because technology is open when noone uses it.
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That's cause you're stuck using Microsoft Windows, where Nvidia does indeed win over open products. But there is a world outside of Windows, where open products rule.
 
WorldExclusive said:
And after all of that, Intel still crushed AMD in CPUs.
A company still needs something to separate itself from the other.
It's silly to expect everyone sharing tech and all boats to be lifted. That's a pipe dream.

If all tech are the same, people will choose the best from the bunch i.e. Intel.
If each company has a exclusive feature that the people want, consumers will buy based on that need i.e. competition.
Click to expand...

If you knew a bit of computer and technology history, you would know that Intel did not crush AMD because of superior products; when AMD got ahead in performance, intel payed off OEMs to not use AMD products at all, AMDs market share had not recovered since.
 
KazeoHin said:
If you knew a bit of computer and technology history, you would know that Intel did not crush AMD because of superior products; when AMD got ahead in performance, intel payed off OEMs to not use AMD products at all, AMDs market share had not recovered since.
Click to expand...

That's what happens when companies share tech, some of them start not to play fair to distinguish themselves from the pack. Money is a very good tool.
AMD paid DICE to use Mantle, boosting performance above Nvidia, and Nv has done the same in other games.

If Origin adopted Steam's exact business model, people will continue to use Steam.
If Nvidia adopted Mantle, and AMD hardware is faster using Mantle, people will still buy AMD. Nvidia loses anyway.
 
KazeoHin said:
If you knew a bit of computer and technology history, you would know that Intel did not crush AMD because of superior products; when AMD got ahead in performance, intel payed off OEMs to not use AMD products at all, AMDs market share had not recovered since.
Click to expand...

When Intel went to the Pentium 4 architecture, they put a lot of bets on high clock speed over efficiency. Along with the use of super expensive RDRAM, the Pentium 4 was out performed by Athlon XP chips and cost more. During the Athlon XP era, AMD never outsold Intel due to Intel making some very real threats to OEM.

Even when AMD went Athlon 64, Intel was behind AMD by a huge factor. They continued to threaten OEM if they went AMD. AMD never saw the benefits of superior performance over Intel. Add to the problem that Intel compilers purposely crippled AMD chips, and you can see that Intel is a huge dick to AMD.
 
WorldExclusive said:
That's what happens when companies share tech, some of them start not to play fair to distinguish themselves from the pack. Money is a very good tool.
AMD paid DICE to use Mantle, boosting performance above Nvidia, and Nv has done the same in other games.
Click to expand...
That's not the same thing what Intel did to AMD. What Intel did was an illegal business practice, and AMD was even awarded money from the verdict.

Both Nvidia and AMD give money to game developers to add features and tools to their games, which is becoming a worrisome practice. Clearly some games favor one graphics card over the other, and it depends who gave the developer money. Creative does this for sound cards as well, or at least did. Don't see too many games showing off EAX audio.

That's why some games you can't even skip the logos that they tend to show off. Some companies spent good money for those logos. Nvidia though is notorious for this, and "The Way It's Meant to be Played" intro is very annoying. Can't even ESC that shit.
 
PRIME1 said:
The difference is that the NVIDIA solution has already been released and reviewed. While the AMD solution has no timetable of ever seeing the light of day.

Not to mention that the NVIDIA solution is specifically designed to make games smoother while VBLANK is not intended for that purpose. Which is probably why (even though it's been out for years) no one has used it for that. AMD has no current plans to release a product based on it.
Click to expand...
AMD's FreeSync capability is currently being shipped with laptops.
 
gunbust3r said:
Moving the industry forward with broken switchable graphics (Enduro), Broken frame pacing for Crossfire, review samples that ran fans at different RPM from retail, and copy cat vaporware free sync.

I cant contain my excitement. Oh wait I mean that's all being worked on in software. Hold on it will be fixed whenever.
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My Samsung ATIV Book 8's Enduro function works fine and Samsung has updated it for Windows 8.1.
AMD fixed fan's RPM issue with a driver update.
FreeSync is currently being ship with laptops.
DisplayPort 1.3 standard supports variable refresh rates.
 
WorldExclusive said:
And after all of that, Intel still crushed AMD in CPUs.
A company still needs something to separate itself from the other.
It's silly to expect everyone sharing tech and all boats to be lifted. That's a pipe dream.

If all tech are the same, people will choose the best from the bunch i.e. Intel.
If each company has a exclusive feature that the people want, consumers will buy based on that need i.e. competition.
Click to expand...

NOW Intel is, but in the days of the K6-2, socket A and socket 939 AMD blew the doors off of Intel, Intel was a joke until Core.
AMD was shut out of the mainstream and just us enthusiasts ran AMD because we built our own.
 
pcjunkie said:
Voids warranty and some features not available after conversion...and only for one model from one manufacturer....sure thing chief.
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Still better than a paper launch. If you don't want to void the warranty than just wait for asus to release it pre installed in a month or two or the other manufactures g-sync will be licensed to. 144hz plus no tearing could be worth it even if you can't use light-strobing at the moment with G-sync, hopefully nvidia delvers and is able to do g-sync with the strobing to cut down on ghosting.
 
Semantics said:
Still better than a paper launch. If you don't want to void the warranty than just wait for asus to release it pre installed in a month or two or the other manufactures g-sync will be licensed to. 144hz plus no tearing could be worth it even if you can't use light-strobing at the moment with G-sync, hopefully nvidia delvers and is able to do g-sync with the strobing to cut down on ghosting.
Click to expand...

Why not just buy a quality 140/144Hz panel, a faster video card, disable v-sync, limit fps to 140, and then not worry about proprietary hardware?
 
darkstarcow said:
Why not just buy a quality 140/144Hz panel, a faster video card, disable v-sync, limit fps to 140, and then not worry about proprietary hardware?
Click to expand...
You still get screen tearing even if you don't get frame doubling. Depends on the game like the original dragon age: origins; the most horrible amounts of screen tearing when v-sync was disabled, even though the game rarely went over 60 fps. Plus G-sync lends itself to the lowest possible lag from input, although light strobing would increase lag a bit.
 
pcjunkie said:
Didn't you see the demo?
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I was referring to their rhetoric. I'll believe AMD rhetoric when they deliver on it - that's on the shelf and available to the general public. Same goes with Nvidia or any other company's promises.
 
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