NVIDIA’s GameWorks Blocking AMD From Optimizing?

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Can't we all just get along?

In Nvidia’s GameWorks program, though, all the libraries are closed. You can see the files in games like Arkham City or Assassin’s Creed IV — the file names start with the GFSDK prefix. However, developers can’t see into those libraries to analyze or optimize the shader code. Since developers can’t see into the libraries, AMD can’t see into them either — and that makes it nearly impossible to optimize driver code.
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Typical of nVidia. They always have their own best interest at heart, rather than what's best for gamers and the industry as a platform.


Physx - proprietary
Light boost - proprietary
G-sync - proprietary
 
eh - just makes me glad I bought two R9 290s before the litecoin boom.

The fact that they have (literally) paid for themselves makes it pretty damn awesome too.

As nice as Gsync is - I'm glad I have team Red this time around.
 
So maybe developers should refuse to use it? It may make life a little more complicated for you but why let nVidia fuck your customers through you?

I know that pre-made libraries make life easier for coders, but at the expense of your customer's enjoyment of your product? I checked, all of these features can be made in house, the libraries are just a short cut for developers. If you take short cuts that screw your customers you're just a sleazy as nVidia has always been.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
So maybe developers should refuse to use it? It may make life a little more complicated for you but why let nVidia fuck your customers through you?

I know that pre-made libraries make life easier for coders, but at the expense of your customer's enjoyment of your product? I checked, all of these features can be made in house, the libraries are just a short cut for developers. If you take short cuts that screw your customers you're just a sleazy as nVidia has always been.
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same can be said about Mantle
 
Steve said:
Can't we all just get along?
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And this is different to AMD's "Mantle" how? Oh yeah, that's right, this will still work with AMD cards, it just means that AMD has to optimize their drivers with the fully-compiled shader code, rather than working with the pre-compiled shader code.
 
Lith1um said:
Typical of nVidia. They always have their own best interest at heart, rather than what's best for gamers and the industry as a platform.


Physx - proprietary
Light boost - proprietary
G-sync - proprietary
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Why wouldn't they? They're in a business to sell videocards, not a charity or some other type of non-profit. What about "Mantle"? Until we get some third party that starts coming up with solutions that are so amazing that AMD and Nvidia both have to jump on top of it, while being an open standard, both companies are going to go back and forth with features and optimizations. This has been the case for years, and expecting any different is just silly.
 
Merc1138 said:
Why wouldn't they? They're in a business to sell videocards, not a charity or some other type of non-profit. What about "Mantle"? Until we get some third party that starts coming up with solutions that are so amazing that AMD and Nvidia both have to jump on top of it, while being an open standard, both companies are going to go back and forth with features and optimizations. This has been the case for years, and expecting any different is just silly.
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Some people think R&D is free.
 
Anaerin said:
And this is different to AMD's "Mantle" how? Oh yeah, that's right, this will still work with AMD cards, it just means that AMD has to optimize their drivers with the fully-compiled shader code, rather than working with the pre-compiled shader code.
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AMD have designed a better way to get more from their cards which is incorporated into game engines alongside current tech such as DirectX.
This doesnt stop NVidia doing the same.

NVidia have prevented AMD from optimising games.
 
AMD debuts Mantle, world gives zero fucks. Nvidia has own proprietary libraries, prepare yourselves for the great shitstorm of our time.
 
Yep. R&D aint free, and since all of the new gaming consoles are AMD/radeon now, because of a few dollars cheaper, Nvidea has to be hurting on the bottom line.

I don't fault them for this move, as giving away the secrets of how it's done is worth serious money. And this is just an SDK, after all. If the game companies had decent programmers, they wouldn't need the kit, they could write their own.

In short, Nvidea is being a tiny bit douche baggish, by not making it open source. The developers are being a tiny bit douche baggish by using an SDK that they can't optimize (let's forget that they COULD optimize, if they wanted to develop that optimization themselves).

I continue to support Nvidea, as they have always (in my experience) produced a quality product with good drivers. That, and i think they have the better tech. I have used Radeon products in the past, but they have always had driver and compatability issues.
 
LAiN_OfTheWired said:
AMD debuts Mantle, world gives zero fucks. Nvidia has own proprietary libraries, prepare yourselves for the great shitstorm of our time.
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What? They are not even remotely comparable. Mantle is a toolset to utilize AMD hardware better, this thing is a black box. It intentionally obfuscates shader code etc. which is bad for a number of things - bad for modding, bad for developers, bad for consumers.

They're digging their own grave though. This won't catch on except where Nvidia pays people because it's dumb and bad.
 
I'm just waiting for more Mantle fanboys to jump up and down chanting Mantle inside their sacrificial hymns to AMD.

Let's talk about Mantle when it is released... For all we know AMD could simply be inflating their product, noone here knows, just pure speculation.
 
sobe88 said:
I'm just waiting for more Mantle fanboys to jump up and down chanting Mantle inside their sacrificial hymns to AMD.
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You've just done exactly the same thing.
Your desperation must be taking your breath away :p
 
Nenu said:
You've just done exactly the same thing.
Your desperation must be taking your breath away :p
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Or your own as you want to do exactly as I stated :p

I'd simply prefer to wait and see how it turns out before spewing opinion as fact. It could turn out to be another PhysX :/
 
sobe88 said:
Or your own as you want to do exactly as I stated :p

I'd simply prefer to wait and see how it turns out before spewing opinion as fact. It could turn out to be another PhysX :/
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I only commented on your tongue chewing that you alone started.
 
Nvidia should just jump on-board the Mantle train, everyone needs a lower-level API and it makes more sense to pull together on one standard than waste money developing all this proprietary junk.
 
Nenu said:
I only commented on your tongue chewing that you alone started.
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Not to worry friend, I commented once more on your own tongue chewing and fanboy Mantle humping that you alone started :)

As an owner of both NV and AMD cards (780Ti / 290x), I prefer fact to opinions blessing Mantle as a savior. If Mantle turns out to do exactly as promised by AMD, that is GREAT and will in turn force competition for more performance for us, the end users.
 
I own both NVidia and AMD cards too.
You are barking up the wrong tree.
 
So you're pissed that a company received money from Nvidia to sponsor their game, and then expect Nvidia to share their technology/R&D/code? They're a business after all, try explaining to investors why another company is leeching all your work for free.
 
eggrolls said:
same can be said about Mantle
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he he. AMD has had many other proprietary initiatives too, but none really worked out. ;)

Although AMD also has a less successful optimization program with developers, doesn't this exact same complaint apply? I mean, Nvidia doesn't get to look into what work AMD helped game developers with either.

Typical crying.
 
Time2Kill said:
So you're pissed that a company received money from Nvidia to sponsor their game, and then expect Nvidia to share their technology/R&D/code? They're a business after all, try explaining to investors why another company is leeching all your work for free.
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Maybe AMD should do the same. Maybe they should have proprietary code that makes Nvidia cards crash if they try and run AMD sponsored games. That would suit you fine?
 
nvidia isn't the publisher. They are paying the developers to include physx in their game.
I'm starting to wonder if this is getting in the intel level of anti competitive practices.

Prediction, Next year FTC will announce they are investigating Nvidia.
 
Let me get this straight. Nvidia fan boys are crying Mantle, which doesn't actually prevent Nvidia from optimizing the same game(s) that use it,unlike what Nvidia is doing with their libraries. AMD offers game optimizations to certain publishers for their cards, which they turn down (wink, wink) and refuse to implement. Yeah, that's totally the same. :rolleyes:
 
Time2Kill said:
So you're pissed that a company received money from Nvidia to sponsor their game, and then expect Nvidia to share their technology/R&D/code? They're a business after all, try explaining to investors why another company is leeching all your work for free.
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I could be wrong, but I've always been under the assumption that nvidia works more closely with game developers. It just seems more games have "the way it's meant to be played" rather than whatever the ATI/AMD slogan is. Also when looking at benchmarks nvidia usually seems to have more consistent performance across games where ATI/AMD will have a couple of good ones and a couple of shit ones.
 
Lith1um said:
Typical of nVidia. They always have their own best interest at heart, rather than what's best for gamers and the industry as a platform.


Physx - proprietary
Light boost - proprietary
G-sync - proprietary
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Yeah I really hate how they come up with all this cool tech and dont give it away for free to the competition.....
 
23e874e75679a902b71cdc09355f76a00f087d0bb9e3e54c3d5c71a2b1bc4652.jpg
 
I think AMD should lock out Nvidia from Mantle, put the shoe on the other foot on Nvidia for once
 
ShamisOMally said:
I think AMD should lock out Nvidia from Mantle, put the shoe on the other foot on Nvidia for once
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Mantle is proprietary. It's a low level interface to the underlying AMD GPU hardware. lol

There's a whole list of failed proprietary AMD initiatives, so I don't even
 
I dont really care if nVidia does this. Everything is fair game these days. We will see who is on top in 5 years AMD or nVidia. I feel its going to be AMD. They have mining, consoles and mantle.
 
ShamisOMally said:
I think AMD should lock out Nvidia from Mantle, put the shoe on the other foot on Nvidia for once
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That's not something I want to see AMD do. It certainly won't benefit anyone if AMD and Nvidia start being assholes about who gets to use their tech.

///AMG said:
I dont really care if nVidia does this. Everything is fair game these days. We will see who is on top in 5 years AMD or nVidia. I feel its going to be AMD. They have mining, consoles and mantle.
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Honestly, I want to see Nvidia and AMD on top in 5 years. Cause as a consumer, I don't benefit to see either one fail. Not to say I want Nvidia to get away with this. I want to see their sales slump, so they get the message. But it's not like AMD hasn't done some shady shit as well.

I also wouldn't mind seeing more competition in the market as well. More companies fighting over your money, the better it'll be for you.
 
Ashbringer said:
Honestly, I want to see Nvidia and AMD on top in 5 years. Cause as a consumer, I don't benefit to see either one fail. Not to say I want Nvidia to get away with this. I want to see their sales slump, so they get the message. But it's not like AMD hasn't done some shady shit as well.

I also wouldn't mind seeing more competition in the market as well. More companies fighting over your money, the better it'll be for you.
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I never said AMD doesnt do some shitty stuff. Also I would like to see AMD on top for once as nvidia has been dominating the market for far too long dictating stupid high pricing whenever they want. I know that at least for the better part of a decade nvidia has had more market share and sales than ATi/AMD in the graphics sector. I would like AMD for once to be either 50% or a little higher so nvidia can't do $800 GPUs anymore. I am also curious to see what AMD will do when they are finally on top.
 
Mantle isn't proprietary... letting people know..So Nvidia could support it if they want..
 
///AMG said:
Also I would like to see AMD on top for once as nvidia has been dominating the market for far too long dictating stupid high pricing whenever they want. I know that at least for the better part of a decade nvidia has had more market share and sales than ATi/AMD in the graphics sector. I would like AMD for once to be either 50% or a little higher so nvidia can't do $800 GPUs anymore. I am also curious to see what AMD will do when they are finally on top.
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I've always been an ATI fan over Nvidia, cause historically Nvidia has done terrible things for market dominance. Especially when it comes to drivers and cheating in benchmarks. Though again, ATI/AMD has had theirs. Anyone remember Quake Quack?

But Nvidia dominates cause there's just so many people who are behind them. Vocal minority has huge influence over the majority in sales. The worst Nvidia has ever done was their Geforce FX chips. I don't know why, but even though they screwed up big, people still bought them, even when it's been proven they can't do true DX9. Thanks to an awesome PR department, and convincing developers to go DX8.1 instead of DX9, they got aware with it. Until Half Life 2 was released and it was a true DX9 game, then the Geforce FX owners bitched.

I bet those Gefore FX owners are still buying Nvidia products today. Nvidia could sell an anal probe and people would still buy it. The label "way it's meant to be played", would be appropriate for them.

nvidia-troll-shirt.jpg
 
ravensteel said:
Mantle isn't proprietary... letting people know..So Nvidia could support it if they want..
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Mantle is an API for AMD's GCN architecture.

AMD's Mantle page said:
The solution: a unified industry
Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture is the hardware answer to these concerns, unifying the console ecosystem (and much of the PC market) under a common graphics architecture.

This is where AMD’s Mantle comes in. Mantle is a software component that makes it easy to apply programming techniques and optimizations written for consoles to PC’s containing GCN architecture. The chasm between consoles and PCs has been closed.
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And it is proprietary.
 
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