- Joined
- May 7, 2007
- Messages
- 13,443
Don't forget UNIX, Blackberry OS, and a whole slew of other proprietary OSes.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Windows 8 Adoption Gaining Steam
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
Don't forget UNIX, Blackberry OS, and a whole slew of other proprietary OSes.
#1 People like choice.
#2 People will abandon old "habits" in a split second without a single thought given if the new system or methods attempting replace the old are a natural extension and improvement, versus simply change for the sake of change with no real benefit except to, in this case, Microsoft's mobile ambitions.
Metro is dead. Nobody cares. Make all the excuses you want about people "not adapting to change" because here's the thing you Microbots can't seem to get through your heads: people will only go through as much trouble and effort as change for their own needs requires, not the change Microsoft's needs requires.
The only Win8 PC sales at this point are purely inertia, not because people are walking by PC's at the store and seeing a screen full of giant, blinking multicolored tiles and thinking to themselves "I need that. It looks like it was designed for children and the visually impaired but I NEED IT". No.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
You do realize that live tiles don't blink, the change state through sliding transitions.
I think they are over counting the number of systems running Windows 8.
All those new system are still counted as Windows 8, even if the user upgrades it to Windows 7 after they buy it.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
No, they are looking at Internet traffic, it has nothing to do with counting licenses. That's why this number is looked at by a lot of people because it's about the best gage of actual users.
win8 > 7, no reason to downgrade 8.1 will fix the people who don't like metro screen @ boot, and honestly metro screen is same as the start button
win7:
windows key - opens start menu
+ type what you want to open ie win+ word = microsoft word
win8
windows key - opens metro screen
+ type what you want to open ie win+ word = microsoft word
Seems to me that the function is the same, except if you have touchscreen or want to setup custom metro screen to make other things easier.
ill take the faster boot times of 8, upgrade from 7 was 15 bucks. the 45 seconds it took to get used to a different start screen soooo skery.....
I tried to shrug 'em off for the last year or so, but I'm fairly sure you are an MS shill. Hows that pay?
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
And I'm absolutely certain you have no idea what you're talking about.
+1 Agreed
D
Deleted whining member 223597
Guest
Well you post in, literally, every single Microsoft thread. You are very dedicated to defending Microsoft everywhere. But hey, it is fun sometimes to see someone who doesn't shit on Microsoft like most do here.
apopleptic
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2013
- Messages
- 340
I remember being hesitant to upgrade to win95 in the beginning, and eventually did it anyhow. It was quick and easy once I jumped in. Same story with XP and 7. But ME, and Vista were nothing but issues all things considered, and I gladly skipped them completely. I figured that if I had more than 1 HW issue on each PC I ran that it wasn't worth my time. Now I tried 8 and didn't have the HW issues, but I really don't dig how it tries to get you to log into windows live for everything. I didn't like the start menu replacement either. Other than that I suppose I didn't find any other issues, but hopefully the next V will be a little better... even if it's 8.1
Personally I hope they come out with some whacky new naming scheme for the OS because Windows 9 is too predictable.
Personally I hope they come out with some whacky new naming scheme for the OS because Windows 9 is too predictable.
Ashbringer
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2010
- Messages
- 5,522
Wait, so we're including mobile OS's? I would think iOS and Android would dwarf all of these? Unix yes, but I would think mobile OS's aren't included in this graph.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Microsoft has made plenty of mistakes and certainly has with Windows 8. But there are just very fundamental differences of opinions about the hybrid approach that Microsoft took with Windows 8. Yes there are problems with the approach, maybe there should be a Metro off switch, etc. But where was there any place for Windows to go as desktop only OS? Windows has long dominated the desktop and that market is shrinking. It seems reasonable to add touch and tablet features to Windows so that it can be used on more devices and in ways that are proving to be very popular to consumers and even businesses to some extent.
Obviously the approach Microsoft wasn't without issues and of course this wasn't only way to go about it. On the other hand there are lot of complaints that seem totally blown out of proportion. Like the notion that 8 isn't suitable for desktop productivity when it runs EXACTLY the same desktop programs as it predecessors and they function as they always have. My position is pretty middle of the road. Windows 8 isn't a hit but it's not the disaster many make it out to be but I do think the hybrid approach extends the life and function of Windows even if the approach needs work.
TheMadHatterXxX
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2004
- Messages
- 3,032
Still have not installed my copy. : /
Its funny you mentioned android.. I used a Samsung android tablet for a few minutes (this is very new hardware).. in seconds, I was checking Wifi connections, opened the internet, checking out pre-loaded apps.. cheking the clock/calendar.. I used windows 8 for 20 minutes.. the only thing I had was a strong urge of twisting the tablet.. can you explain that?... I can, its a called properly done OS, but you know that is history for MS I guess...
And yes, yes, humans can learn anything, that is meaningless argument.. I can get very, very fast at either number-based menu DOS software, or letter based menu (I used one with 3 letters).. I mean fast, I will smoke anyone with windows and a mouse... the tradeoff is a longer learning curve if the software is large (both were).
I don't understand MS choices here, they are so poor.. Wouldn't window 7 not be suitable for touch? I think it would.. considering how advanced touchscreens are to be honest I wish I had a scroll bar on the touch phone my wife has (don't know what android is that) many times I am scrolling something, but end up interacting instead, Yeah I suppose I do it slowly, but I want to read as I scroll, not read, stop, scroll, read, stop scroll.. there is a lot an improved version of windows 7 in touch (it would need zoom, and some tweaks) would beat, the other touch OS in the market... no I don't think for phones as the screen is too small, but for tablets, and PC it would have been incredible.
Savi
Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2009
- Messages
- 657
install Start8 from Stardock and you wont be saying that, been using it like that since release and i never see that crappy touch UI.
install Start8 from Stardock and you wont be saying that, been using it like that since release and i never see that crappy touch UI.
Gotta wonder if the start 8 adoption is gaining steam too?
I just recently switched all my home PCs to Windows 8 after couple months of testing on my own main system. I found subjectively that W8 runs faster compared to W7. So add 5 more PCs to W8's market share.
I did, however, install Start8 and ModerMix on all 5 PCs. No Start Button and full screen app are deal breakers in my household. Extra $40 spent but worth it considering it only cost me $15 for each W8 license. I did try Classic Shell but it's ugly as heck and not as polished as Start8.
I did, however, install Start8 and ModerMix on all 5 PCs. No Start Button and full screen app are deal breakers in my household. Extra $40 spent but worth it considering it only cost me $15 for each W8 license. I did try Classic Shell but it's ugly as heck and not as polished as Start8.
In UI design terms that's called conveyance, and its precisely what Metro is totally devoid of - even on touch based systems where it should have remained until it was built out more to accommodate a more rational transition for desktop users coming from the start menu.
Unfortunately no amount of minor tweaks or gimmicks like stacking two metro apps and other such half measures present in 8.1 are going to fix it. A total, clean slate, from-scratch reboot of their mobile and touch UI strategy is what MS needs to have any hope of not just fading into profitable enterprise/B2B territory within five years while coasting there way there on mostly ELA renewal profits.
Every additional moment they have development teams spend on Metro instead of a total replacement and successor is another moment wasted while the rest of the world continues to pass them by.
Really? I have two Windows 8 machines in my house and they do the job just fine. One is a gaming machine (hooked up to the TV) and the other is a tablet. They both do their jobs perfectly with no headaches. I dock the tablet when I want to use a keyboard and mouse for some dedicated typing or photo management.
I have windows 8 but its on a Steambox mItx console I built and it boots direclty into big picture without loading the Windows 8 shell at all. Does that count? My experience with Windows 8 is as follows: The drivers installed properly, and it hasn't exploded yet.
Basically what the chart implies what has already been said. Consumers buying new computers are the majority of those moving to windows 8. You can interpret that however you like. The sad part is windows 8 could have easily been an overwhelming success with just a few minor tweaks which they knew about. Anyways, like most discussions, little that is said will sway the other side. WE all believe what we believe for the most part.
Nokia purchase was a little silly and uneeded, but I wonder if it was a promise should windows 8 phone sales ...
The write off and the fact that the CEO is stepping down does not mean anything? We won't even get into the good will they lost. All because they tried to force the market into a UI direction which does not suit the current PC. Sure eventually they will re-brand the failure as they were to forward thinking, but in all honesty that is not the case. The PC market will become smaller as it switches to mainly content creators. More and more will find smart tvs, consoles, tablets and phones good enough for a majority of their needs. It would be great though if we could have a seamless experience on all the device we use.
The market is just reaffirming what Microsoft was warned about...
Metro should be an optional UI/API. Users should be encouraged versus feeling forced. It would have been a great front end of a new online store. Offering media, access to phone tablet apps on the desktop and the like. It lets desktop users see what a tablet might be like and see why they might want one. When they go to buy they might even buy a Microsoft tablet.
Microsoft should be focusing on improving development tools. Therefore making it easier to code once port everywhere.
Microsoft should be focusing on the backend. This way they can start earning money on media and apps.
In the end I should want a Microsoft DVR/console, Microsoft Phone and a Microsoft PC. All because they work well together and make my life easier. X86 might be a red herring at this point.
Lets leave the insults about adapting out of the form most users here can adapt just fine. We are all likely always looking for a better tool. We all likely have various phones, tablets which we can all use. We would all likely like a tablet which acts like a watcom tablet and runs x86 apps as well as tablet/phone apps.
The move to phones/tablets for content consumption happened long before Windows 8 came along. It was Microsoft's move to capture some of that themselves instead of just throwing up their hands and giving up. They (I think rightfully so) wanted an operating system that could work well on a tablet and a desktop computer so people could operate both equally well and switch back and forth without blinking. Atom is the infancy of that but with the next couple generations that could prove very forward thinking. The Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2, for instance, which I own ... seamlessly plugs in to a desktop dock and slings my desktop up to the big screen with a keyboard and mouse attached to the dock. I said "infancy" because Atom doesn't have the power to run any significant desktop applications while also running two monitors.
But, the Windows 8 interface works in my opinion for this sort of setup. Metro works excellent on a tablet and then when I plug in I can decide if Metro stays on the tablet or flicks up to the big screen (Window Key + Pg Up/Pg Down). I often use the Metro interface on the full screen, especially Internet Explorer if I'm just looking up one thing. No, it isn't for multiple tabs and easy switching back and forth but if I want that I flick over to Desktop and use IE 10 or Chrome there. I find IE 10 a little faster on Windows 8 right now but it is very close.
For a hardcore desktop experience? Yes, I think they dropped the ball a bit. Windows 8.1 will solve a number of those issues and I eagerly wait seeing how it pans out. But, for the "smaller market" of content creators you reference ... Windows is making the right move by offering a tablet focused piece of software that can also work well for a desktop experience when plugged in to a dock. I think it just needs to add a "power desktop" mode to its Windows 8 experience and it'll have a good piece of software. The dock thing (to me) is one area where Windows 8 tablet makers have fallen flat on their face. Only Lenovo really seems to make something that a corporate type would consider putting on his desk which is probably why they're taking the lead.
Hagrid
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2006
- Messages
- 9,168
Thats what alot of the posts are about is the 3rd party software making it behave like win 7.
It is basically a upgraded win 7 install after that.
I havnt seen Start8, but should try it for myself and see if its better then classicshell.
I got used to metro and my programs have never been easier and faster to start nor easier to organized. Hate against W8 is blind or from people who have "tried" it a few hours. I know no person who has had it a month that has gone back and do not feel people hating on 8 just look retarded. It is nothing but a faster W7. If you like W7, you like windows 8, or are suffering from a split personality disorder that makes you look stupid on the internet.
Blind support for Windows 8 is staggering. Assuming that people used it for couple hours and formed of their opinion on is just plain arrogant and blind hatred for other users, who disagree with you.
Other "users". riiiight. It's the same empty BS every-single-iteration. I can understand people not wanting to move from XP to Vista+. It is a major difference, and Vista was not all that stable. 7 was superior to XP in many ways, but it is OK to want to keep what's not broken, if dated. But there is no significant difference between 7 and 8 except that 8 is snappier. That's it. Install classic shell if you do not like metro, which there is no denying is superior and has more potential, but still needs work and is different enough that many understandably don't like it. Maybe they'll mange to make it catch on and build on it, maybe they won't. But aside from that tou are left with an up to date W7 and will barely notice a difference. I couldn't recommend going from 7 to 8, as they are basically the same damn thing. But going back from 8 to 7 or trying to get 7 instead of 8 when you buy new is pure idiocy. Hell, I got my version of 8 for 15 bucks and when I upgraded I logged right back on my W7 desktop with everything still working as if nothing had changed. Smoothest transition I have ever seen. I did not come express an opinion but just to let know, and now I consider it done. So keep hating if you want; you're the ones who will have to look back on your comments you know to be empty.
wonderfield
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 7,396
I'm of the opinion that wanting to be a shill is actually worse than being a shill. This doesn't seem to stop some from trying so desperately and failing so completely.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
You, like others, have their reasons for not liking Windows 8 and I happen to agree with some of the points. But hatred of people I don't even know simply because of a disagreement over a UI doesn't make any sense. I just don't believe that 8 is some huge disaster that's totally horrific to use and that most people in time can adapt to it without a huge ordeal even on a keyboard and mouse driven system.
And the thing is that this isn't so much a defense of Microsoft as it is of average people, who I think are smarter and more adaptable overall than many in places like this think.
Not sure where you disagree with me, as you don't seem to... you just assume...anyways
The question is not Microsoft's past mistakes in ignoring a market, but how poorly they are leveraging the desktop near monopoly into the new markets which threat to eclipse the desktop market in short order. That is the whole point of why windows 8 is a failure. Instead of leading people to new devices(which we all know are the future) they alienated them.
Windows 8 is a failure and was a bad approach to the transition that needs to happen. All the bad PR from the complaints of PC users is putting a negative halo on all other products. In the end it was a very poor transition.
I think it was simply poor marketing. It was presented as integration of other devices, but thing is people don't yet use their other devices, so many saw it as a "nerf" to deskstop in favor of tablets. It does work great for those who do use windows phone and tablet, but aside from that is still a pretty solid OS in it's own right without all those touchscreen shenanigans. It's like people just said "Screw that, I'm a deskstop user, bitch" as a reaction to that move.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2005
- Messages
- 44,154
Lot of different points here but Surface RT and Windows 8 are pretty distinct things. To this point Windows RT has failed but I don't think the same can be said of Windows 8 to this point. 8 certainly has not been a hit but it seems to be fairing better than RT.
Benzino
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2005
- Messages
- 1,710
I saw Windows 8 and Steam and figured it was an article about Steam gaming on Windows 8. I was disapoint.
Manaknight
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2005
- Messages
- 5,446
now that someone was able to reintroduce aero glass I'm gonna give it another go this week.
startisback plus putting aero glass back in means it's now at a point of usable for me, provided all my compatibility is there.
startisback plus putting aero glass back in means it's now at a point of usable for me, provided all my compatibility is there.
grtitan
Telemetry is Spying on ME!
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,266
If all new PC's had an option at start up to select W7 or W8, I wonder how much higher the W8 adoption would be.
Because, for some people, there is only black or white ... love or hate. There is nothing in between. There can be no "it is ok, except for a few points". They either love it or hate it. It is either a total failure or a massive success. They loved XP and hated Vista and in turn loved 7 and now hate 8. I have used everything from 3.0 to XP, Vista, Win7, and now Win8 and I never loved nor hated any of them. I had more grief moving from MSDOS and "launching" Windows to just pure Windows from launch than I did moving to Win8 or Vista. Vista I used for many years on a laptop I owned and never had a problem with it. The thing soldiered on until just a month ago when I got the Win8 Lenovo tablet and dock to replace it on the desk in the living room.
For the record... I have Windows 7 and 8 running on my PCs as well as Linux, OSX. I have WebOS, Android, Windows Tablets. I have one of each phone OS as well.
You could say the same think about OSX. just because you and a small group of friends like it does not make it a superior product nor worth purchasing. How many write down, lost jobs must occur before fans admit Microsoft made a mistake.
The Start Menu(UI changes) is just the start of the long list of errors made. It is just the most widely known and commented on. The preverbal straw which broke...
Anyways it is oddly true that it only requires a bit of effort on the consumers report to fix many UI complaints, but in all honest they should not have to...In the end the consumers has to spend money and time to get back to where they were, so why would they upgrade? For minor UI speed improvements, when most computers are already faster than most consumers need?
Why would a consumer upgrade?
Reminds me of when friends upgraded to Vista because they might as well learn the UI of the future. I said they will just change it a version or two anyways. In the end my opinion is they would have done better with the carrot approach. Given an incentive for users to use and learn metro, to make computers do more then they currently do and to make peoples lives better.