why do people want the ms surface more than the ipad?

I'd love to get Surface, buT IMO Microsoft is making same mistake as with Zune - they release it only in US, and forget, that rest of the world would love to get that stuff too.

In other countries people won't wait for official distribution and either get stuff from US, and can forget about warranty, or buy competition's device.

I'm waiting for Nokia tablet tho :)
 
My brother got a surface pro and it's brilliant. It effectively bridges the gap between a laptop and a tablet, what's not to like? The only issue in this case is the battery life, which is pretty short sadly, but the device itself gives you an idea of what to expect with full windows tablets (non-RT) and I like what I see.
 
I'd like to know where these journalists base these reports on.

The initial iPad launching was probably one of the hugest and most anticipated and talked about pre-launches to date. Everybody was talking about the iPad at the water-cooler. Nobody actually knows what the Surface is today at today's water-cooler.

iPad quite possibly pre-sold as many as partners have actually sold Surface period.

Apple announced presale sold figure. Microsoft refuses to comment on Surface or Windows 8. They're blaming everybody except themselves for it's dismal sales. Manwhile everybody is still buying the iPad and people who aren't buying the iPad are getting the Samsung or the Nexus(?).
 
I ended up with both! I bought an old iPad 1 from a friend a while ago and I bought a surface pro recently. And I use both.

The iPad is great for what it does and how much I paid for it (80$). It lets me take random stuff on the go, read manga, and pulls up recipes in the kitchen. Games are played occasionally and reddit surfed, but not that often.

The surface was basically a new laptop for me. I read ebooks on it, sure, but I love how I can flip it out and use a full version of excel, photoshop, or even the occasional game of CivV or LoL. The part I like about it the most, though, is the potential in the future. As an x86 device, I can do anything with it in the future.

That all being said, I don't get what that journalist was saying, since I'm definitely not who he was talking about
 
squeakyl said:
The surface was basically a new laptop for me. I read ebooks on it, sure, but I love how I can flip it out and use a full version of excel, photoshop, or even the occasional game of CivV or LoL. The part I like about it the most, though, is the potential in the future. As an x86 device, I can do anything with it in the future.

That all being said, I don't get what that journalist was saying, since I'm definitely not who he was talking about
Click to expand...
Microsoft actually sort of pulled an Apple on both occasions (the flip and the swipe)

The Flip Laptop was done before by several major people (both Dell and Lenovo iirc). It ended up getting not purchased like many cool and innovative but ultimately not that useful ideas.

And Touchscreen is not new. People were swiping in the exact same manner that Microsoft has said "only Windows 8 can be swipe" when Windows 7 was released. Back then the cool idea was the HP all-in one with swipe everything. Another novel idea that never caught on.

So Kudos to Microsoft for being able to pull two "cool but only mildly useful" ideas and putting them together and putting a re-spin on them and "sort of" making them work.

However as all the critics and skeptics said about the iPad when it blasted the water cooler globally for 2 weeks pre-launch, "Let's see what people are saying/using in 4-6 months"

The iPad has continued to do extremely well despite what the critics said. Probably harder to find somebody who has a Microsoft Surface than find somebody who doesn't have an iPad or know somebody who has one.

Only time will tell what the cards lay in store for Microsoft, Windows 8 and Surface. So far they aren't looking too good but the one advantage of being the only one who sells something, the one who controls all the huge pc makers and electronics retail. Eventually they will force people to buy it.
 
Fort_Major said:
And Touchscreen is not new. People were swiping in the exact same manner that Microsoft has said "only Windows 8 can be swipe" when Windows 7 was released. Back then the cool idea was the HP all-in one with swipe everything. Another novel idea that never caught on.
Click to expand...

Not exactly sure where Microsoft has said "only Windows 8 can be swipe" or even what that means. If you're referring to prior versions of Windows, Windows 8 is far more touch friendly, even than Windows 7 for the simply reason that there are actually touch friendly applications. Though the Windows Store is much smaller than Apple's or Google's, that's still tens of thousands more touch applications than any prior version of Windows had.

Fort_Major said:
The iPad has continued to do extremely well despite what the critics said. Probably harder to find somebody who has a Microsoft Surface than find somebody who doesn't have an iPad or know somebody who has one.

Only time will tell what the cards lay in store for Microsoft, Windows 8 and Surface. So far they aren't looking too good but the one advantage of being the only one who sells something, the one who controls all the huge pc makers and electronics retail. Eventually they will force people to buy it.
Click to expand...

Well considering the 2.5 years the iPad has had on Windows 8/RT tablets well of course. As for Windows 8 not looking too good, at this moment overall probably not. The Surface RT has underperformed it looks, however the Surface Pro may have actually over performed a bit, though the number for the Pro are not doubt much smaller due to the much higher price.

However things look at this moment, I don't see anyone looking at this objectively and thinking that if Microsoft simply put back the Start Button and Start Menu, Windows 8 would take off. The bottom line is that the computing device has undergone a very radical shift since Windows 7 was launched and the classic PC is simply in less demand. If Windows can't transition to tablets and touch devices then no amount of desktop awesomeness is going to boost the plight of the Windows PC and it won't be Macs of Linux distros that take the place but tablets.
 
I am sure I could grow to like the MS Surface pro if I used it long enough.

But from what I took from using for 30 minutes was it was way to damn big and I still cant get my head around Win 8 yet.

Ill stick with my Ipad until the next gen of Win 8 tabs come out and then try again.
 
I'm sorry, but a Surface Pro isn't really a tablet. It's an ultrabook with a touch/digitizing screen. It's the same as my Samsung UMPC that I bought years ago, with an OS that barely has decent touch support after all this time. Comparing it to an iPad or Android tablet is silly. When it come to doing real work, it is useless without a keyboard.
 
AQ_OC said:
I'm sorry, but a Surface Pro isn't really a tablet. It's an ultrabook with a touch/digitizing screen. It's the same as my Samsung UMPC that I bought years ago, with an OS that barely has decent touch support after all this time. Comparing it to an iPad or Android tablet is silly. When it come to doing real work, it is useless without a keyboard.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with you. The Pro is great if you want to use it and get a secondary use of using it as a bullet proof vest.

Ipad all the way.
 
AQ_OC said:
I'm sorry, but a Surface Pro isn't really a tablet. It's an ultrabook with a touch/digitizing screen. It's the same as my Samsung UMPC that I bought years ago, with an OS that barely has decent touch support after all this time. Comparing it to an iPad or Android tablet is silly. When it come to doing real work, it is useless without a keyboard.
Click to expand...

How many tablets are highly productive without a keyboard. There's a great deal that can be one without a keyboard on Windows 8 tablet productivity wise, much can be done effectively though maybe not quickly with touch in Office 2013 and I use OneNote all of the time with just a pen and I doubt there's a better note taking app on iOS of Android especially using only touch.
 
heatlesssun said:
How many tablets are highly productive without a keyboard. There's a great deal that can be one without a keyboard on Windows 8 tablet productivity wise, much can be done effectively though maybe not quickly with touch in Office 2013 and I use OneNote all of the time with just a pen and I doubt there's a better note taking app on iOS of Android especially using only touch.
Click to expand...

I was surprised how quickly I type with the iPad on screen keyboard. About 75% of normal speed. That's really impressive for an onscreen display I think. I'm maybe 10% faster than that with the MS Surface keyboard.

There's an app available for IOS for the Microsoft Office Suite, called CloudOn that is a virtualized service. Its the actual office suite that's been modified a bit to be touch friendly running in a virtualized environment. It's rather impressive for what it is. but personally I found it too slow. But it's also free, and still basically in beta. It will never be a substitute for desktop, but an interesting idea of what's possible on a tablet.

Where I think the iPad excels, and why I picked it is because of one app. PDF Expert. and that, I suppose is really where the iPad sinks or swims. is there an app for what you need to do.

This particular app allows me to 2-way sync with drop box where I can view PDF documents, mark them up with hand-written, typed or highlighted markups that are 2-way synced to Dropbox and those markups can be read by any PDF reader. And (this is huge) I can fill in PDF forms, and capture signatures, then flatten and email the file or sync it via Dropbox.

Doing this on a laptop would be unmanageable (especially signature capture), and even on the surface pro it would be, at best, equal in functionality, but heavier and with less battery life. But the truth is, it is even slower at these tasks, and less optimized for touch. Not to mention it doesn't even offer LTE which is a must for any (high end) mobile business tool.

Personally, I have no loyalty to any brand or technology. My metric is my total income at the end of the year. And whatever tools help me make more with less effort are a win in my book. And right now... today, the iPad is tough to beat, its a very efficient tool.

Surface pro is very interesting. And I can't wait to see where it is in a year. But right now, as it is, I would never use it for business.
 
Chrisroman said:
I was surprised how quickly I type with the iPad on screen keyboard. About 75% of normal speed. That's really impressive for an onscreen display I think. I'm maybe 10% faster than that with the MS Surface keyboard.
Click to expand...

As with all things, some people are better at if than others. My Windows tablets are 11.6" diagonal and larger, easily used with two hands and about the size of my ultraportable laptops and bigger than old school 10" netbooks and it's still just nothing like a physical keyboard to me, glass just doesn't have enough feedback for me. Functional but not anything I could work on for long.

Chrisroman said:
There's an app available for IOS for the Microsoft Office Suite, called CloudOn that is a virtualized service. Its the actual office suite that's been modified a bit to be touch friendly running in a virtualized environment. It's rather impressive for what it is. but personally I found it too slow. But it's also free, and still basically in beta. It will never be a substitute for desktop, but an interesting idea of what's possible on a tablet.
Click to expand...

Remote solutions are great but the more mobile the device the less practical it becomes. And when were talking LTE, that's a very pricy option to simply run software that can be run locally.

Chrisroman said:
Where I think the iPad excels, and why I picked it is because of one app. PDF Expert. and that, I suppose is really where the iPad sinks or swims. is there an app for what you need to do.

This particular app allows me to 2-way sync with drop box where I can view PDF documents, mark them up with hand-written, typed or highlighted markups that are 2-way synced to Dropbox and those markups can be read by any PDF reader. And (this is huge) I can fill in PDF forms, and capture signatures, then flatten and email the file or sync it via Dropbox.


Doing this on a laptop would be unmanageable (especially signature capture), and even on the surface pro it would be, at best, equal in functionality, but heavier and with less battery life. But the truth is, it is even slower at these tasks, and less optimized for touch. Not to mention it doesn't even offer LTE which is a must for any (high end) mobile business tool.
Click to expand...

You can do most of what you've mentioned hear with the Microsoft Reader, it allows for PDF forms and ink annotations. There is no support for text annotations or PDF flattening, however there are very powerful desktops PDF apps that are quite a bit more than equal than iPad apps. Of course they aren't touch optimized or very cheap but then they will also run on a laptop or desktop. There is a new version of one of the top PDF programs Bluebeam Revu that claims to support the Surface Pro and multi-touch.
 
I went and found the article that the OP was referring to:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/07/office_workers_want_microsoft_tablets/

So, apparently somebody surveyed 600 million workers to see what kind of... oh, wait, no, they didn't, I'm just kidding.

Someone surveyed 10,000 workers. 33% wanted a Windows Surface and 26% wanted an iPad. However, 12% already have an iPad and only 2 percent have a Surface.

By waving my hands and doing magical extrapolation like the source of the article does, I realize that this means that about 150 million workers want an iPad, 75 million already have an iPad and - note this carefully - 12 million already have a Surface.

Now we know that all of this extrapolation is just bullshit, because Microsoft hasn't even sold 1 million Surface tablets as of February.
 
evilsofa said:
I went and found the article that the OP was referring to:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/02/07/office_workers_want_microsoft_tablets/

So, apparently somebody surveyed 600 million workers to see what kind of... oh, wait, no, they didn't, I'm just kidding.

Someone surveyed 10,000 workers. 33% wanted a Windows Surface and 26% wanted an iPad. However, 12% already have an iPad and only 2 percent have a Surface.

By waving my hands and doing magical extrapolation like the source of the article does, I realize that this means that about 150 million workers want an iPad, 75 million already have an iPad and - note this carefully - 12 million already have a Surface.

Now we know that all of this extrapolation is just bullshit, because Microsoft hasn't even sold 1 million Surface tablets as of February.
Click to expand...

Where-as, as I recall iPad easily pre-sold one million. But I love the math they used. Actually pretty bad math For TheRegister. Wonder how much they got paid for that.
 
heatlesssun said:
How many tablets are highly productive without a keyboard. There's a great deal that can be one without a keyboard on Windows 8 tablet productivity wise, much can be done effectively though maybe not quickly with touch in Office 2013 and I use OneNote all of the time with just a pen and I doubt there's a better note taking app on iOS of Android especially using only touch.
Click to expand...

The Surface is not a tablet, its a laptop that has tablet features. Take OneNote away and you can't do anything on it (and few people are using inking on the whole, for productivity) approaching real productivity on it. And some tablets can work with a pen too, and lots of people do use a stylus on other tablets. Some tablets can have or be made to have laptop features, but they are really tablets, not laptops.

But the biggest reason the Surface is not a tablet is because it runs Windows, and Windows needs a keyboard. If it were a Windows Phone device, then it would be a tablet.

This is a confused thread. One can be totally justified to owning a tablet and a Surface. They are not really overlapped devices.
 
AQ_OC said:
The Surface is not a tablet, its a laptop that has tablet features. Take OneNote away and you can't do anything on it (and few people are using inking on the whole, for productivity) approaching real productivity on it. And some tablets can work with a pen too, and lots of people do use a stylus on other tablets. Some tablets can have or be made to have laptop features, but they are really tablets, not laptops.

But the biggest reason the Surface is not a tablet is because it runs Windows, and Windows needs a keyboard. If it were a Windows Phone device, then it would be a tablet.

This is a confused thread. One can be totally justified to owning a tablet and a Surface. They are not really overlapped devices.
Click to expand...

Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, fully featured PDF creation and editing are all practical via touch or with touch and pen.
 
heatlesssun said:
Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Photoshop, fully featured PDF creation and editing are all practical via touch or with touch and pen.
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that using a tablet in touch/pen mode as a work device for the aforementioned software is a lesson in Sado Massochism.

Also, I am 100% sure that the risk/affects of R.I.S will probably be 10 to 100 fold if you try swiping for 8 hours like many office workers do on a PC.
 
wonderfield said:
AQ_OC said:
Windows needs a keyboard.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't.
Click to expand...

Let's amend that to reflect what (the poster probably meant).

Any OS requires a keyboard to do something actually productive.

Something that will move the world or an industry or a business forward. Something that can't be done with a swipe of a wrist or by knocking the structure that is protecting a pig over in order to kill the pig, requires a keyboard

Try to build a database and write queries without a keyboard.
Try to write code without a keyboard.
Try to use engineering software that will be used to test formulas used to develop a more efficient fuel injector without a keyboard.

You might be able to balance the US budget with the swipe of a wrist, but lets face it that action will probably not actually result in anything productive.
 
Fort_Major said:
I am pretty sure that using a tablet in touch/pen mode as a work device for the aforementioned software is a lesson in Sado Massochism.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. Not everything is about high text input rates. If I am just starting out on a document and don't have a clear picture of what exactly I'm trying accomplish I'm not going to be banging out text at 60+ words a minute. That's when I like to grab a tablet and pen and write things in ink as it often helps me connect with what I want to do and at the same time it's not just useless scribble, I actually can have some useful artifacts that I can then take along and then start typing or whatever as things progress.

All of these discussions of tablets and input methods and productivity seem to focus only on input speed of text. They never take in account other variables like the one I just described.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not necessarily. Not everything is about high text input rates. If I am just starting out on a document and don't have a clear picture of what exactly I'm trying accomplish I'm not going to be banging out text at 60+ words a minute. That's when I like to grab a tablet and pen and write things in ink as it often helps me connect with what I want to do and at the same time it's not just useless scribble, I actually can have some useful artifacts that I can then take along and then start typing or whatever as things progress.

All of these discussions of tablets and input methods and productivity seem to focus only on input speed of text. They never take in account other variables like the one I just described.
Click to expand...

That's because what you described above really falls into the "casual mode/add-on" category. The tablet complements a creative process which is what you described.

It's actually about far more than just "text input"

Companies spend millions of dollars on engineers who run about the place watching how people do things, what they do. They then make make modifications ranging from huge to small, to how people are doing things that sometimes only shaves off 2 physical (man taken) steps off a process, or several 3 seconds.
 
Last edited:
Fort_Major said:
That's because what you described above really falls into the "casual mode/add-on" category. The tablet complements a creative process which is what you described.
Click to expand...

Not sure how Windows 8 complements Windows 8 of Office 2013 complements Office 2013. Same OS, same apps. From a hardware perspective I can see your point, but all Windows 8 tablets can hook up to external monitors and keyboards and work like traditional desktops and laptops. At that point the only thing that's complementary is hardware from a performance and portability standpoint.

Long story short, be it a desktop or laptop or tablet, it's all the same software from a user perspective so the only thing that can be complementary is the hardware and that hardware can transform into other input methods.
 
heatlesssun said:
Long story short, be it a desktop or laptop or tablet, it's all the same software from a user perspective so the only thing that can be complementary is the hardware and that hardware can transform into other input methods.
Click to expand...
And (IMHO) this thinking that leads to conclusions like this, is why Windows Vista failed, Windows 7 is still competing for Market share with Windows XP a 10+ year old OS, why Windows Phone failed and why Windows 8 tablet sales are insanely sluggish.

Just because 1.7 has a One in it doesn't make it 1.

A 2000 dollar laptop is still a klunky replacement for a serious workstation that costs less money.

A low-powered tablet that flips into a laptop is not actually a laptop.

Making a desktop OS that is connected to multiple monitors and a keyboard and mouse and sat in front of for 8+ hours a day into a tablet/touchscreen orientated OS is a horrible decision.

This is the equivalent of saying: if a then b, if b then c, if c then d, thus if a then z.

The world does not work like that and I'm not sure what mal-function of Microsoft caused them to not be able to predict the now, 12 months ago.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not sure how Windows 8 complements Windows 8 of Office 2013 complements Office 2013. Same OS, same apps. From a hardware perspective I can see your point, but all Windows 8 tablets can hook up to external monitors and keyboards and work like traditional desktops and laptops. At that point the only thing that's complementary is hardware from a performance and portability standpoint.

Long story short, be it a desktop or laptop or tablet, it's all the same software from a user perspective so the only thing that can be complementary is the hardware and that hardware can transform into other input methods.
Click to expand...

Your tablet complements your process/workflow. Your tablet could actually be any tablet that allowed you to draw/doodle in a document that would ultimately go out in RTF/Doc format.
 
Fort_Major said:
Your tablet complements your process/workflow. Your tablet could actually be any tablet that allowed you to draw/doodle in a document that would ultimately go out in RTF/Doc format.
Click to expand...

The integration is much tighter than that. Same apps, files and file system. Going from device to device isn't a matter of different programs or OS, just input methods and even then just attach a keyboard and mouse to a Windows 8 tablet and the only differentiating factor is performance.
 
heatlesssun said:
The integration is much tighter than that. Same apps, files and file system. Going from device to device isn't a matter of different programs or OS, just input methods and even then just attach a keyboard and mouse to a Windows 8 tablet and the only differentiating factor is performance.
Click to expand...

That sounded way too similar to Microsoft Ad/Marketing material.

I think the past has shown and the future is going to continue showing us that being tied to one platform will not only matter less and less but will not be able to be counted upon.

I think one of the most common combos I see is: Apple iPad (they may have tried an Android tablet but returned it) and an Android Phone and a Windows Desktop. Laptop choice is split between Windows and Apple with Windows being favored but far from being the only player.
 
Fort_Major said:
That sounded way too similar to Microsoft Ad/Marketing material.

I think the past has shown and the future is going to continue showing us that being tied to one platform will not only matter less and less but will not be able to be counted upon.

I think one of the most common combos I see is: Apple iPad (they may have tried an Android tablet but returned it) and an Android Phone and a Windows Desktop. Laptop choice is split between Windows and Apple with Windows being favored but far from being the only player.
Click to expand...

I agree with your last assessment. I personally use the same Windows applications, both desktop and Metro. across laptops, tablets, hybrids and desktops all of the time. I've not said anything about that which I don't use daily and cannot easily demonstrate.
 
heatlesssun said:
I personally use the same Windows applications, both desktop and Metro. across laptops, tablets, hybrids and desktops all of the time. I've not said anything about that which I don't use daily and cannot easily demonstrate.
Click to expand...
Majority of the important applications I use day-to-day have a LOT of difficulty running on any laptop. They tend to be quite IOPS intensive, ignoring the multiple-monitor requirements.

Probably would not ever imagine using them on a MS Surface Pro. It would actually be less useful than my iPad (because it's 1/2 lb heavier)

None of my day-to-day applications that I use have Metro Equivalents nor will they ever have Metro Equivalents. They are actual Applications.

Barring encryption, a majority if not almost all Metro App can/could be done in Javascript + a few bloated libraries and will actually be cross-platform. Which is why Microsoft actually heavily pushes Metro apps done in its bastardized form of Metro Html+Javascript through its partner channels.
 
Fort_Major said:
Majority of the important applications I use day-to-day have a LOT of difficulty running on any laptop. They tend to be quite IOPS intensive, ignoring the multiple-monitor requirements.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. If you need the power of desktop, then you need the power of a desktop. A lot of what I do needs that kind of power, a lot of what I do doesn't.

Fort_Major said:
Probably would not ever imagine using them on a MS Surface Pro. It would actually be less useful than my iPad (because it's 1/2 lb heavier)
Click to expand...

I understand. This is the reason that my primary tablet is a Clover Trail. Though not nearly as fast as a Surface Pro it is much lighter, thinner with much more battery life and much less heat and it runs key applications just fine for my purposes like Office which is exactly the same Office I run on my desktops and laptops. works with mouse, keyboard, touch and a pen.

Fort_Major said:
None of my day-to-day applications that I use have Metro Equivalents nor will they ever have Metro Equivalents. They are actual Applications.
Click to expand...

Which is why there is still a desktop in Windows 8.

Fort_Major said:
Barring encryption, a majority if not almost all Metro App can/could be done in Javascript + a few bloated libraries and will actually be cross-platform. Which is why Microsoft actually heavily pushes Metro apps done in its bastardized form of Metro Html+Javascript through its partner channels.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. Even in situations where code can be JavaScript browsers lack standard support for true touch applications, ink, sensors, etc. And I'd love to see a DX game in JavaScript.
 
AQ_OC said:
Nonsense. Not true even with the modern UI.
Click to expand...

I use all of these things all of the time with the exception of Photoshop on Windows 8 tablets touch only or a combination of touch and pen. Plenty of folks use Photoshop on pen enabled Windows tablets and have long before the iPad.
 
AQ_OC said:
Nonsense. Not true even with the modern UI.
Click to expand...

You mean the Duplex Logo 1-3 buttons on the screen at a time UI only capable of resizing a window at like 2-3 presets. Not sure i would classify that as being a "Modern UI"

I would say it reminds me of the very first Windows Managers that Borland had but those windows actually were re sizable (x,y) and stackable (z).

Funny story, Somebody was trying to show me how awesome Metro Office was. Needless to say we found out about the resize presets which are quite hilarious on a 30" monitor.
 
heatlesssun said:
I use all of these things all of the time with the exception of Photoshop on Windows 8 tablets touch only or a combination of touch and pen. Plenty of folks use Photoshop on pen enabled Windows tablets and have long before the iPad.
Click to expand...

Pen/Tablet users have been around for the past 10+ years.

And, they have also always been extremely vocal about how awesome the experience is and how they can do anything/everything on it.

The Pen/Tablet market for productivity never took off except in niches where it was useful or needed. For good reason(s) too.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not exactly. Even in situations where code can be JavaScript browsers lack standard support for true touch applications, ink, sensors, etc. And I'd love to see a DX game in JavaScript.
Click to expand...

Games are already being done in Javascript more and more. See Unity

The point of that statement I made, was more aimed at people who talk about using "Apps" as if they were full blown "Applications" which I take major offense to because they're not. Almost all of that stuff can be or has been done in Javascript.

Like, Metro Office, which is a joke, a really bad one.
 
Fort_Major said:
The Pen/Tablet market for productivity never took off except in niches where it was useful or needed. For good reason(s) too.
Click to expand...

But some of the most productive things one ran do with a tablet are done with a pen. Lots of iPad users use pens and its not even designed for pens.
 
Fort_Major said:
Games are already being done in Javascript more and more. See Unity
Click to expand...

Causal games can, 3D shooters not so much.

Fort_Major said:
The point of that statement I made, was more aimed at people who talk about using "Apps" as if they were full blown "Applications" which I take major offense to because they're not. Almost all of that stuff can be or has been done in Javascript.

Like, Metro Office, which is a joke, a really bad one.
Click to expand...

There is no Metro Office but there is a Metro version of OneNote and you're correct, it's not nearly its desktop counterpart. Fortunately OneNote 2013 received a lot of touch enhancements, perhaps more than any of the other applications in Office 2013.
 
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