Ok, so Win 8 is growing on me...

I'm not sure how you get "you'll spend half your time in Metro" from "shoving two completely different UI paradigms down peoples throats simultaneously".
 
"You can choose a local account when installing windows, it is not hidden at all."

So how do I stop from having to sign in , I didn't see the "don't want to sign in" option when installing.

If it's not much different than Win 7 then why use it ? especially not having a touch screen.

Win 8 is fine but I do not see the purpose like with Win 7 over Vista.

Never mind , I'm staying with Win7.
 
Last edited:
mrjones said:
"You can choose a local account when installing windows, it is not hidden at all."

So how do I stop from having to sign in , I didn't see the "don't want to sign in" option when installing.

If it's not much different than Win 7 then why use it ? especially not having a touch screen.

Win 8 is fine but I do not see the purpose like with Win 7 over Vista.

Never mind , I'm staying with Win7.
Click to expand...

Even Win7 makes you create a user account. It's bottom left:

hNuc2.jpg
 
I put Windows 8 on my netbook just to give a whirl and while it runs nice and smooth, it doesn't bode well with me at all. Nothing about it feels like an "upgrade." It reminds me of the days of dropping in a custom shell for Windows XP.

I understand that Microsoft is desperately trying to catch up with Google and Apple in the mobile market, but their efforts are too little, too late. Furthermore, Microsoft did such a horrible job in previous versions of Windows with file synchronization (Offline Files, to this day, is such an utterly horrible POS), that I simply don't trust their implementation of cloud services.

Metro is stupid and unnecessary. All Microsoft needed to do to make an already great desktop OS work well with tablets was to beef up desktop gadgets and add better touch and gesture features to Explorer. Android functions in this manner and it works great. This coupled with simplifying the taskbar for tablet use would make Windows 8 extremely accessible on mobile devices while retaining its desktop functionality (and definitely compete with Android in this respect). This "tile" garbage is sloppy and poorly executed. Remember the last time you heard someone raving about Windows Phone and wishing their computer was just like it? Yeah, me neither.

Microsoft still seems to think that the average computer user is savvy and knows what they're doing. The average computer user is an idiot. Even people who sit in front of a computer every single day and use it for hours on end at the office still haven't a clue how to defragment a hard drive or consolidate the 500 shortcuts sitting on their desktop. People are going to shit themselves just trying to figure out how to get to their files.

Old habits die hard and when you make no efforts to innovate or improve your products until years after the competition does it, you end up alienating your own customers.

The other major issue with Windows 8 is the fact that, under the hood, it's still the same OS we've been using for 15 years. It really hasn't changed all that much. Windows still uses the registry, "virtual" memory, still requires a restart when you update it, and will easily get hosed through Internet Explorer just like its predecessors. These are the tenets of an extremely dated, antiquated piece of software that Microsoft refuses to let go of.

People love iOS and Android. Nobody really "loves" Windows. With old PC titles becoming mobile games, Valve making a solid effort to reintroduce games to Mac, it's really just a matter of waiting for creative and productivity software to become available for Android and I'll have no problem saying goodbye to Windows. Microsoft will still have a healthy stake in Enterprise and IT solutions, but I don't see them having much of a consumer OS presence by 2020. I think it's pretty much down hill from here.

People are going to try Windows 8, hate it, and go back to either Windows 7 or give their money to Apple and Google for offering OS's that do it right.
 
Last edited:
spanq said:
I put Windows 8 on my netbook just to give a whirl and while it runs nice and smooth, it doesn't bode well with me at all. Nothing about it feels like an "upgrade." It reminds me of the days of dropping in a custom shell for Windows XP.

I understand that Microsoft is desperately trying to catch up with Google and Apple in the mobile market, but their efforts are too little, too late. Furthermore, Microsoft did such a horrible job in previous versions of Windows with file synchronization (Offline Files, to this day, is such an utterly horrible POS), that I simply don't trust their implementation of cloud services.

Metro is stupid and unnecessary. All Microsoft needed to do to make an already great desktop OS work well with tablets was to beef up desktop gadgets and add better touch and gesture features to Explorer. Android functions in this manner and it works great. This coupled with simplifying the taskbar for tablet use would make Windows 8 extremely accessible on mobile devices while retaining its desktop functionality (and definitely compete with Android in this respect). This "tile" garbage is sloppy and poorly executed. Remember the last time you heard someone raving about Windows Phone and wishing their computer was just like it? Yeah, me neither.

Microsoft still seems to think that the average computer user is savvy and knows what they're doing. The average computer user is an idiot. Even people who sit in front of a computer every single day and use it for hours on end at the office still haven't a clue how to defragment a hard drive or consolidate the 500 shortcuts sitting on their desktop. People are going to shit themselves just trying to figure out how to get to their files.

Old habits die hard and when you make no efforts to innovate or improve your products until years after the competition does it, you end up alienating your own customers.

The other major issue with Windows 8 is the fact that, under the hood, it's still the same OS we've been using for 15 years. It really hasn't changed all that much. Windows still uses the registry, "virtual" memory, still requires a restart when you update it, and will easily get hosed through Internet Explorer just like its predecessors. These are the tenets of an extremely dated, antiquated piece of software that Microsoft refuses to let go of.

People love iOS and Android. Nobody really "loves" Windows. With old PC titles becoming mobile games, Valve making a solid effort to reintroduce games to Mac, it's really just a matter of waiting for creative and productivity software to become available for Android and I'll have no problem saying goodbye to Windows. Microsoft will still have a healthy stake in Enterprise and IT solutions, but I don't see them having much of a consumer OS presence by 2020. I think it's pretty much down hill from here.

People are going to try Windows 8, hate it, and go back to either Windows 7 or give their money to Apple and Google for offering OS's that do it right.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with desktop icons ?

P.s I agree with you're post 100%

Reminds me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8_Kfjo3VjU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
spanq said:
The other major issue with Windows 8 is the fact that, under the hood, it's still the same OS we've been using for 15 years. It really hasn't changed all that much. Windows still uses the registry, "virtual" memory, still requires a restart when you update it, and will easily get hosed through Internet Explorer just like its predecessors. These are the tenets of an extremely dated, antiquated piece of software that Microsoft refuses to let go of.
Click to expand...

This was the paragraph where I realized you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for that, having an accurate way to gauge someone is so important.
 
spanq said:
I understand that Microsoft is desperately trying to catch up with Google and Apple in the mobile market, but their efforts are too little, too late. Furthermore, Microsoft did such a horrible job in previous versions of Windows with file synchronization (Offline Files, to this day, is such an utterly horrible POS), that I simply don't trust their implementation of cloud services.
Click to expand...

So you put Windows 8 on a current gen netbook, hardware that virtually NO ONE will 8 run Windows 8 on an concluded that Windows 8 is too little, too late?

Plus if you had actually bothered to actually TRY the cloud services integration in Windows 8 you might have actually found some interesting things, they are actually very good.

spanq said:
People are going to try Windows 8, hate it, and go back to either Windows 7 or give their money to Apple and Google for offering OS's that do it right.
Click to expand...

But this isn't really possible, Windows 7, iOS, and Android can't do all that Windows 8 does on one device. Not Windows RT, that's another matter.
 
Tawnos said:
This was the paragraph where I realized you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for that, having an accurate way to gauge someone is so important.
Click to expand...

There are multiple factual errors in that post and his personal conclusion of Windows 8 was drawn by using it on a current get netbook, hardware that no one will ever run Windows 8 on, particularly if it's a typical 1024x600 netbook device that can't run Metro apps.
 
spanq said:
I put Windows 8 on my netbook just to give a whirl and while it runs nice and smooth, it doesn't bode well with me at all. Nothing about it feels like an "upgrade." It reminds me of the days of dropping in a custom shell for Windows XP.

I understand that Microsoft is desperately trying to catch up with Google and Apple in the mobile market, but their efforts are too little, too late. Furthermore, Microsoft did such a horrible job in previous versions of Windows with file synchronization (Offline Files, to this day, is such an utterly horrible POS), that I simply don't trust their implementation of cloud services.

Metro is stupid and unnecessary. All Microsoft needed to do to make an already great desktop OS work well with tablets was to beef up desktop gadgets and add better touch and gesture features to Explorer. Android functions in this manner and it works great. This coupled with simplifying the taskbar for tablet use would make Windows 8 extremely accessible on mobile devices while retaining its desktop functionality (and definitely compete with Android in this respect). This "tile" garbage is sloppy and poorly executed. Remember the last time you heard someone raving about Windows Phone and wishing their computer was just like it? Yeah, me neither.

Microsoft still seems to think that the average computer user is savvy and knows what they're doing. The average computer user is an idiot. Even people who sit in front of a computer every single day and use it for hours on end at the office still haven't a clue how to defragment a hard drive or consolidate the 500 shortcuts sitting on their desktop. People are going to shit themselves just trying to figure out how to get to their files.

Old habits die hard and when you make no efforts to innovate or improve your products until years after the competition does it, you end up alienating your own customers.

The other major issue with Windows 8 is the fact that, under the hood, it's still the same OS we've been using for 15 years. It really hasn't changed all that much. Windows still uses the registry, "virtual" memory, still requires a restart when you update it, and will easily get hosed through Internet Explorer just like its predecessors. These are the tenets of an extremely dated, antiquated piece of software that Microsoft refuses to let go of.

People love iOS and Android. Nobody really "loves" Windows. With old PC titles becoming mobile games, Valve making a solid effort to reintroduce games to Mac, it's really just a matter of waiting for creative and productivity software to become available for Android and I'll have no problem saying goodbye to Windows. Microsoft will still have a healthy stake in Enterprise and IT solutions, but I don't see them having much of a consumer OS presence by 2020. I think it's pretty much down hill from here.

People are going to try Windows 8, hate it, and go back to either Windows 7 or give their money to Apple and Google for offering OS's that do it right.
Click to expand...

With this hard-hitting strategy of yours you could run Microsoft into bankruptcy in no time!
 
I was actually asking how to stop from having to sign in after it has already been installed or is that even possible ?
 
heatlesssun said:
So you put Windows 8 on a current gen netbook, hardware that virtually NO ONE will 8 run Windows 8 on an concluded that Windows 8 is too little, too late?
Click to expand...

The hardware of my netbook is irrelevant. Microsoft's effort to make desktop users use a tablet UI for their PC is silly. Windows 8 as solely a tablet OS is one thing, but Average Joe running it on his/her desktop who's been used to the old fashioned Start Menu since the 95/98 days and dragging shortcuts from every corner of his PC onto the desktop? No, it ain't gonna bode well at all.

heatlesssun said:
There are multiple factual errors in that post and his personal conclusion of Windows 8 was drawn by using it on a current get netbook, hardware that no one will ever run Windows 8 on, particularly if it's a typical 1024x600 netbook device that can't run Metro apps.
Click to expand...

My netbook runs the dual-core Atom chip, ION GPU, 4GB of memory, and a 1366x768 resolution display. It's more notebook than netbook, really. Windows 8 runs beautifully on it. It's quick, snappy, and very responsive. Metro and all the included applications run just fine. Everything works.

Tawnos said:
This was the paragraph where I realized you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for that, having an accurate way to gauge someone is so important.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but what part of that statement is incorrect? Windows has come a long way since the '90s, sure, but at its core, it hasn't changed. When it's no longer possible to hit a dirty Web site in IE and get an executable dropped into your AppData folder that goes and changes your browser's proxy settings, hides all your files in your user profile, and prevents you from executing the Task Manager, I will concede that Windows has made strides to truly change. Granted, this situation won't happen to you or I, but Average Joe always finds a way.
 
Tawnos said:
This was the paragraph where I realized you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for that, having an accurate way to gauge someone is so important.
Click to expand...
Do all Microsoft employees spend more time gauging what Microsoft customers know about Microsoft products than they do focusing on what customers want from Microsoft products? Seems like very dismissive and unproductive behavior to me.
 
spanq said:
Windows still uses <snip> "virtual" memory,
Click to expand...

Tawnos said:
This was the paragraph where I realized you don't know what you're talking about. Thanks for that, having an accurate way to gauge someone is so important.
Click to expand...

wonderfield said:
Do all Microsoft employees spend more time gauging what Microsoft customers know about Microsoft products than they do focusing on what customers want from Microsoft products? Seems like very dismissive and unproductive behavior to me.
Click to expand...

He thinks Microsoft should ditch virtual memory. That alone tells me I don't want him anywhere near any OS dev team.

Not to mention the contradicting points he brings up.

spanq said:
The average computer user is an idiot. Even people who sit in front of a computer every single day and use it for hours on end at the office still haven't a clue how to defragment a hard drive or consolidate the 500 shortcuts sitting on their desktop. People are going to shit themselves just trying to figure out how to get to their files.

Old habits die hard and when you make no efforts to innovate or improve your products until years after the competition does it, you end up alienating your own customers.
Click to expand...
They're changing it too much!
spanq said:
The other major issue with Windows 8 is the fact that, under the hood, it's still the same OS we've been using for 15 years.
Click to expand...
They're not changing it enough!
 
spanq said:
The hardware of my netbook is irrelevant. Microsoft's effort to make desktop users use a tablet UI for their PC is silly. Windows 8 as solely a tablet OS is one thing, but Average Joe running it on his/her desktop who's been used to the old fashioned Start Menu since the 95/98 days and dragging shortcuts from every corner of his PC onto the desktop? No, it ain't gonna bode well at all.
Click to expand...

Your netbook does meet the base requirements for optimal Windows 8 functionality. That said the one key ingredient that you are missing is either a touch screen or enhanced track pad. As much as people want to keep touch out of the discussion of Windows 8 touch will be a key ingredient on Windows 8, if not via a touch screen then with a track pad and with form factors very few Windows users have seen before. Windows 8 is deeply tied to hardware and it cannot be evaluated for what it has to offer without some touch mechanism. Will that deter non-touch users from upgrading. Perhaps at first but then there are a whole slew of Metro apps that might change their mind.





My netbook runs the dual-core Atom chip, ION GPU, 4GB of memory, and a 1366x768 resolution display. It's more notebook than netbook, really. Windows 8 runs beautifully on it. It's quick, snappy, and very responsive. Metro and all the included applications run just fine. Everything works.



I'm sorry, but what part of that statement is incorrect? Windows has come a long way since the '90s, sure, but at its core, it hasn't changed. When it's no longer possible to hit a dirty Web site in IE and get an executable dropped into your AppData folder that goes and changes your browser's proxy settings, hides all your files in your user profile, and prevents you from executing the Task Manager, I will concede that Windows has made strides to truly change. Granted, this situation won't happen to you or I, but Average Joe always finds a way.[/QUOTE]
 
wonderfield said:
Do all Microsoft employees spend more time gauging what Microsoft customers know about Microsoft products than they do focusing on what customers want from Microsoft products? Seems like very dismissive and unproductive behavior to me.
Click to expand...

So tell me, if you spent years on a product would you take the word of a tiny minority of people that have seen your product and an even tinier minority of those people that actually used you product on the platform for which it was optimized?

Whether you did or didn't you'd have no clue as to how well received your product would be in the wild.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
He thinks Microsoft should ditch virtual memory. That alone tells me I don't want him anywhere near any OS dev team.
Click to expand...
There has to be some reason why he put "virtual" in quotation marks. That definitely needs clarification.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Not to mention the contradicting points he brings up.
Click to expand...
They appear contradictory only when the interpretation is radically skewed. In one quote he's talking about the interface; the other he's talking about the Windows 'core'. Those elements which aren't directly user-facing, as evidenced by the words "under the hood". These are obviously different things.
 
heatlesssun said:
So tell me, if you spent years on a product would you take the word of a tiny minority of people that have seen your product and an even tinier minority of those people that actually used you product on the platform for which it was optimized?
Click to expand...
Would I "take the word"? No. Would I take an elitist, wholly-dismissive attitude toward negative feedback? No. Somewhere in between lies a sensible approach to dealing with customer feedback. You disagree, do you?
 
wonderfield said:
Do all Microsoft employees spend more time gauging what Microsoft customers know about Microsoft products than they do focusing on what customers want from Microsoft products? Seems like very dismissive and unproductive behavior to me.
Click to expand...

Do any Microsoft employees spend more time gauging what customers know about products than focusing on improving the products? I certainly don't. But needless an uninformed bitching is best met with a dismissive attitude than anything else. It's clear he's made up his mind despite his lack of knowledge. I mean, FFS, he claimed that it's the exact same kernel for the past 15 years. That's so laughably inaccurate that I don't even know where to begin debunking it. I mean, I could link to this really cool and in depth explanation of removing the kernel dispatcher lock, but that would fly right over his uninformed little head. Scarequoting virtual memory and making comments about restart just shows that the rest of his screed wasn't worth the time.
 
wonderfield said:
There has to be some reason why he put "virtual" in quotation marks. That definitely needs clarification.
Click to expand...
Given some of the other points in that paragraph, I don't think it's unwise to assume he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

He also says that Windows is the same OS we've been using for 15 years. 15 years ago was Windows 98. Last I checked Windows doesn't have any 16-bit components in the kernel anymore.

In that time we've also switched to the NT kernel, which was largely rewritten for Vista.

Wikipedia said:
In addition to the new user interface, security capabilities, and developer technologies, several major components of the core operating system were redesigned, most notably the audio, print, display, and networking subsystems; while the results of this work will be visible to software developers, end-users will only see what appear to be evolutionary changes in the user interface.
Click to expand...

Wikipedia said:
At the core of the operating system, many improvements have been made to the memory manager, process scheduler, heap manager, and I/O scheduler.
Click to expand...

Very few things still actually require a restart anymore. Once back in the Vista days I noticed a bug in the version of the nVidia drivers I was using. It was a known issue with a fix in the next version. I installed the new version without rebooting, re-launched the game, and the bug was obviously and undeniably fixed - no more obvious texture artifacts. This wasn't some application, this was the display driver - a core component of the operating system. If nVidia could make this work there is no excuse for other developers not being able to do the same in their installers. None.

When an installer these days says it needs to reboot, it's probably for XP compatibility, or because they didn't want to bother implementing a way to cleanly bring down their resident services and let the reboot do it for them.

wonderfield said:
They appear contradictory only when the interpretation is radically skewed. In one quote he's talking about the interface; the other he's talking about the Windows 'core'. Those elements which aren't directly user-facing, as evidenced by the words "under the hood". These are obviously different things.
Click to expand...
The core has changed greatly over the past 15 years. See above.

But, no, I still feel his argument is not internally consistent. He wants Microsoft to basically give up on the consumer market, because Android and iOS have already won:

spanq said:
People love iOS and Android. Nobody really "loves" Windows. With old PC titles becoming mobile games, Valve making a solid effort to reintroduce games to Mac, it's really just a matter of waiting for creative and productivity software to become available for Android and I'll have no problem saying goodbye to Windows.
Click to expand...

In the same breath he says Microsoft will retain the Enterprise market:

spanq said:
Microsoft will still have a healthy stake in Enterprise and IT solutions, but I don't see them having much of a consumer OS presence by 2020. I think it's pretty much down hill from here.
Click to expand...
Hello? If Android has sufficient productivity tools to satisfy him, a supposed power user, then why would anyone expect Windows to hold on to its lead in the Enterprise market?

What would really erode this is the fact that if Google and Apple really did have the consumer market to themselves in 2020, then new hires wouldn't know what Windows is. The learning curve that keeps people from jumping ship to Linux en masse would work against them.

Abandoning the consumer market is not a bright idea. At least not when you still have a chance.
 
I probably should've been more clear about the system specs before my post, especially if it gave you guys the impression I wasn't getting the full experience of Windows 8.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
He thinks Microsoft should ditch virtual memory. That alone tells me I don't want him anywhere near any OS dev team.
Click to expand...

I never said they should ditch virtual memory. I didn't even remotely hint that whatsoever. My point was that that aspect and others I've mentioned have been with Windows for a long time. You can breathe easy, though. I don't have any plans to hang out with or stand near OS dev teams.

Tawnos said:
I mean, FFS, he claimed that it's the exact same kernel for the past 15 years. That's so laughably inaccurate that I don't even know where to begin debunking it.
Click to expand...

Are you serious? I never said that, either. I stated the OS as a whole hasn't really changed in 15 years. Is it exactly the same? Of course it isn't. However, you can still hose it the same way you could in the 95/98/ME days and subsequently you can fix it the same way, too. Relax, Mr. Days of Our Lives.

heatlesssun said:
Your netbook does meet the base requirements for optimal Windows 8 functionality. That said the one key ingredient that you are missing is either a touch screen or enhanced track pad. As much as people want to keep touch out of the discussion of Windows 8 touch will be a key ingredient on Windows 8, if not via a touch screen then with a track pad and with form factors very few Windows users have seen before. Windows 8 is deeply tied to hardware and it cannot be evaluated for what it has to offer without some touch mechanism. Will that deter non-touch users from upgrading. Perhaps at first but then there are a whole slew of Metro apps that might change their mind.
Click to expand...

From what I've seen, I have no doubt that Windows 8 will rock on a tablet. I'm not disputing that at all. My argument is that as a desktop OS in the hands of Average Joe, the significant changes to the UI are going to be a problem, especially if he or she has no desire or interest in mobile platforms. As for me personally, I just don't care for Metro. I don't see the need for it when I can mix shortcuts and gadgets together on my desktop.

I get what Microsoft is trying to do here. There's always been that slight disconnect between the PC and your iPad or Android tablet. It's been a few years and most people have accepted that. Microsoft is trying to bridge that gulf and Windows 8 most likely will get the job done. I just believe that not doing it much sooner and forcing it on the PC-end of things is a bad idea.

wonderfield said:
They appear contradictory only when the interpretation is radically skewed. In one quote he's talking about the interface; the other he's talking about the Windows 'core'. Those elements which aren't directly user-facing, as evidenced by the words "under the hood". These are obviously different things.
Click to expand...

Thank you for simply taking my post at face value and not putting words into my mouth. Yes, the UI has changed dramatically and Average Joe may have a problem with that. Under the hood, no, things haven't really changed much, which is also a problem because Windows 8, just like all its predecessors, will still succumb to the wrath of "Super AV Pro 2012" and the like.
 
spanq said:
I never said they should ditch virtual memory. I didn't even remotely hint that whatsoever. My point was that that aspect and others I've mentioned have been with Windows for a long time. You can breathe easy, though. I don't have any plans to hang out with or stand near OS dev teams.
Click to expand...
Okay - what exactly about the memory subsystem would they have to change before you would say it's not the same as 15 years ago?

spanq said:
Thank you for simply taking my post at face value and not putting words into my mouth. Yes, the UI has changed dramatically and Average Joe may have a problem with that. Under the hood, no, things haven't really changed much, which is also a problem because Windows 8, just like all its predecessors, will still succumb to the wrath of "Super AV Pro 2012" and the like.
Click to expand...
Back in the 98 days the most popular vector in the browser was ActiveX. This vector is effectively gone.

These days IE has its own security sandbox. It has privileges even lower than a local user. This means there are only three ways out, in ascending difficulty:

  1. Get a user to click the button and grant permission to execute code outside the sandbox.
  2. Exploit a plugin (I'm looking at you, Adobe)
  3. Find an exploit in the sandbox itself (difficult but not impossible)

For this reason, in 2011 a study found that IE was more secure than Firefox.

So, even though you've backpedaled from 'no changes under the hood' to 'well, it can still get infected through the browser!', your argument is still incorrect. IE has evolved to deal with security threats, and the security threats have evolved with it. The easiest way through security, though, is going to be 1. on that list above - which they've tried to combat with things like SmartScreen. That can't always work, but you can only do so much to stop someone from downloading shady smiley packs.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
If the kernel is not 'core' or 'under the hood', then pray tell what is?
Click to expand...
He also said "it really hasn't changed all that much", indicating that he acknowledges changes. He's guilty of over-generalizing, not of ignorance, by my reckoning. That seems like a pretty minor charge in the grand scheme of things, and doesn't warrant the kind of responses which followed, in my opinion.
 
geraltofrivia said:
I do.
Click to expand...

No one really loves Windows and many hate it. But many have to deal with it, that's the thing that most people miss. No Windows release in the last 22 years has been a commercial failure. If the word had to loose everything on iOS, Android and Windows, which would be missed the most? Maybe absence does make the heart more fonder.

Microsoft HAD to do Windows 8 now, while it still had the chance, Call it force, call it stupid. I call it survival, and that's the thing Microsoft does no best.
 
Decibel said:
So when I ask what we need Metro for, your answer is "you don't?"
Click to expand...

You won't hear that from me. You need Metro when you want an environment that is touch friendly. Most Metro opponents simply don't get, and to be fair, few get. the idea of taking a device from desktop to tablet via a screen twist or undock.

Gotcha.
 
spanq said:
From what I've seen, I have no doubt that Windows 8 will rock on a tablet. I'm not disputing that at all. My argument is that as a desktop OS in the hands of Average Joe, the significant changes to the UI are going to be a problem, especially if he or she has no desire or interest in mobile platforms. As for me personally, I just don't care for Metro. I don't see the need for it when I can mix shortcuts and gadgets together on my desktop.
Click to expand...

And you may very well be correct. All I'm saying is that the Average Joe until now has never had the opportunity to have both a desktop and tablet in one device.
 
heatlesssun said:
And you may very well be correct. All I'm saying is that the Average Joe until now has never had the opportunity to have both a desktop and tablet in one device.
Click to expand...
I will believe the idea of convertible tablets breaking out of their niche-product status when I see it.

They're going to have a hard enough time as it is getting the ARM tablets to within spitting distance of the iPad's price. Let alone Intel tablets, or Intel tablets with keyboards, or Intel tablets with keyboards and sufficient horsepower to replace a desktop.
 
heatlesssun said:
And you may very well be correct. All I'm saying is that the Average Joe until now has never had the opportunity to have both a desktop and tablet in one device.
Click to expand...
Travel back in time to 2002, when Windows XP Tablet Edition was introduced, and this post will actually make sense.
 
wonderfield said:
He also said "it really hasn't changed all that much", indicating that he acknowledges changes. He's guilty of over-generalizing, not of ignorance, by my reckoning. That seems like a pretty minor charge in the grand scheme of things, and doesn't warrant the kind of responses which followed, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Except that's just blatantly untrue. Drivers have moved from kernel mode into user mode, including the creation and use of UMDF. The entire display, audio, and networking subsystems have been rewritten. The mechanism used for locking threads and synchronizing access has been rewritten to provide stable scalability to multiple systems. The underlying filesystem architecture has been made more robust, and even moreso in win8, where the ability to verify integrity is automatic. Services have been moved out of Session 0. The level map is unidirectional in call ordering. Kernel-level driver signature enforcement exists.

In short, the changes are anything but minor. The fact that the app compat team has done such a great job maintaining backwards compatibility in spite of all of this is a testament to their efforts and dedication.
 
The whole "nobody loves windows" comment just isn't true. I LOVE Windows 7, and I was quite fond of Windows 2000 and the older NT line. While I dont love XP, its decent and gets the job done for a work PC. I am also quite fond of Server 2003...its a workhorse. I know quite a few people in IT who feel the same way, and many non-IT people who also like Windows 7. Ive also owned a Macbook, and have had plenty of experience with Unix over the years, so its not because I just haven't experienced anything else. I think too many people like to shit on Windows because "all the cool kids are doing it" - but to say no one loves it, while that's just dishonest.
 
wonderfield said:
Travel back in time to 2002, when Windows XP Tablet Edition was introduced, and this post will actually make sense.
Click to expand...

Actually if you had been in 2002 and bought a Tablet PC like myself and using one a daily basis through XP, Vista, 7 and now Windows 8 this post makes little sense as the Tablet PCs and Windows of 2002 look very little like the Tablet PCs and Windows 8 coming out this fall. In fact, the Tablet PCs of 2002 were focused around digital ink and pens. Ink is still in Windows 8 but it is afar superior touch UI than XP.

The Tablet PCs coming out this fall will overall be faster, lighter, cheaper and have a good touch UI compared to the Tablet PCs and Windows of 2002 so it's hard to see the sense of this post other than as a vague generalization from someone who's never used a recent Tablet PC with Windows 8.
 
LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
I will believe the idea of convertible tablets breaking out of their niche-product status when I see it.

They're going to have a hard enough time as it is getting the ARM tablets to within spitting distance of the iPad's price. Let alone Intel tablets, or Intel tablets with keyboards, or Intel tablets with keyboards and sufficient horsepower to replace a desktop.
Click to expand...

And yes price will be the key. But I'm pretty sure that Microsoft, Intel, ARM and OEMs all understand this.The price ranges on Windows 8/RT devices will vary significantly but at the low end I thin Atom Cedar Trail devices on x86 will match up pretty well on the price side and actually perform well.
 
heatlesssun said:
...the Tablet PCs and Windows of 2002 look very little like the Tablet PCs and Windows 8 coming out this fall.
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. You said "Average Joe until now has never had the opportunity to have both a desktop and tablet in one device." The tablets of 2002 combined the tablet with the Windows desktop.

heatlesssun said:
The Tablet PCs coming out this fall will overall be faster, lighter, cheaper and have a good touch UI compared to the Tablet PCs and Windows of 2002
Click to expand...
Irrelevant. Again, you said "Average Joe until now has never had the opportunity to have both a desktop and tablet in one device." The tablets of 2002 combined the tablet with the Windows desktop.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top