Help w/ slow SolidWorks drawing server - Engineer side, not IT side

[CMadki4]

Hi all!

I'm hoping you can help me with a problem I'm having at work. I work with SolidWorks all day long and some of the assemblies I deal with are large (1000+ parts and subassemblies). The problem is that the server here is dog-turd-slow. More often than not, it will take 5 minutes or more to open a complete assembly (not lightweight). And seeing as how I have to open and close assemblies constantly and need the information on demand, this can get a bit frustrating. Especially when I get the wonderful "Not Responding" w/ Explorer.

Can I do something like get a couple of 2TB drives in Raid 0 in a USB3.0 enclosure, copy the entire drawing network drive (G:\) to it, and have it update itself on a schedule?

I would greatly appreciate some advice. IT here is not compliant with fixing the issue. They complain that our assemblies are too large. We complain that their network is too slow. It goes round and round like that.

Thanks in advance!

 

[diizzy]

Without any real world experience I very sure the that general recommendation is not to run RAID over USB unless you're looking for trouble. Does your workstation even support 3.0?
Are you really sure its a network performance issue?
//Danne

 

[dashpuppy]

Hi all!

I'm hoping you can help me with a problem I'm having at work. I work with SolidWorks all day long and some of the assemblies I deal with are large (1000+ parts and subassemblies). The problem is that the server here is dog-turd-slow. More often than not, it will take 5 minutes or more to open a complete assembly (not lightweight). And seeing as how I have to open and close assemblies constantly and need the information on demand, this can get a bit frustrating. Especially when I get the wonderful "Not Responding" w/ Explorer.

Can I do something like get a couple of 2TB drives in Raid 0 in a USB3.0 enclosure, copy the entire drawing network drive (G:\) to it, and have it update itself on a schedule?

I would greatly appreciate some advice. IT here is not compliant with fixing the issue. They complain that our assemblies are too large. We complain that their network is too slow. It goes round and round like that.

Thanks in advance!

Maybe it's not the server that's the bottle neck, maybe you guys have a 10/100 switch instead should have a Gigabit switch.

You could maybe use a NAS drive ? get one that has 2-4 drives and setup a raid on it so your data is not lost.

 

[CMadki4]

Without any real world experience I very sure the that general recommendation is not to run RAID over USB unless you're looking for trouble. Does your workstation even support 3.0?
Are you really sure its a network performance issue?
//Danne

Yes, it supports USB3.0. It's a Dell M6500 w/ i7.

I'm pretty sure its a network issue, because if I dump an assembly from the network on to my hdd in its entirety, it loads much faster.

A NAS would be a good option. I do already have a raid enclosure and one 2TB drive.

I'll ask one of our more knowledgeable IT guys about the switch.

Thanks for the responses so far!

 

[leeleatherwood]

Your IT guys are wrong. They need to develop the network around the demands of its users.

I work with Solidworks too, they simply cannot tell you your assemblies have too much parts, that's the way Solidworks is designed to work. If you put all the parts and assemblies into one assembly it would still load slow because instead of several small files you would have 1 large ass file. (Albeit the 1 large ass file will load faster, but not enough to make a huge difference.

If your network guys are being retarded assholes who dont know what they are talking about, go with an external SSD on USB3, will be much faster than a 2TB drive.

 

[dashpuppy]

Your IT guys are wrong. They need to develop the network around the demands of its users.

.

I agree with this. Hopefully there is a gigabit switch in the loop, if not WELL GET ONE! or tell the so called IT guys to invest in one as it should already be installed..

 

[CMadki4]

Yeah, there is no way around the file structure of SW. It's just a heavy load. I wouldn't think it would be asking a lot to have our assemblies/models load in a reasonable amount of time. IT, as critical as they are, is a support role. Especially here at a major engineering house. They need to be accommodate our technology. Not the other way around. I'll continue to work with IT and see what can be accomplished on the network/switch side.

But on the note of an USB3.0 external drive: using what I have, with minimal additional purchases, what would be the best way to setup the storage (raid, etc.), dump all the data onto the drive, and keep it updated/backed up?

 

[Parja]

Especially here at a major engineering house.

So you're a "major engineering house" but you don't have a PDM system?

Using pretty much any PDM system, you're going to cache the files locally to work with them.

 

[CMadki4]

So you're a "major engineering house" but you don't have a PDM system?

Using pretty much any PDM system, you're going to cache the files locally to work with them.

Did I say no PDM? No. Don't give me crap about something I have no control over. Regardless, my question is about what I can do about it on my end, which is Engineering, not IT.

 

[CMadki4]

Update: IT Joe says 10/100, with no plans for gigabit.

 

[aronesz]

Update: IT Joe says 10/100, with no plans for gigabit.

Nothing you can do about it. Complain to your supervisors/superiors. This is IT's responsibility.

Other than that, just sit back and relax. If they ever crack a whip on you because of this, point them back to this; it's not your job, not your responsibility, not your fault, not your business.

 

[hotcrandel]

Time to complain to your boss.

That should be a very easy issue to fix/upgrade, and your IT staff is just being stubborn.

 

[CMadki4]

Nothing you can do about it. Complain to your supervisors/superiors. This is IT's responsibility.

Other than that, just sit back and relax. If they ever crack a whip on you because of this, point them back to this; it's not your job, not your responsibility, not your fault, not your business.

Haha, that's exactly what we do. Click to open an assembly, then go find something else to do. Formal complaints have been logged by others in the past, but to no avail. But hopefully, with some reading/knowledge/Power of the [H], I can call b.s. on IT and get my superiors to push them.

IT Joe has agreed to help get the entire G:\ drive onto my raid array. I'll let you know how that goes, when it goes.

Also: is going from 10/100 to Gigabit a costly endeavor? Go on the assumption that 800 total employees w/ only 20 to 50 using any significant amount of computing/network on a day-in/day-out basis (not sure that matters). IT Joe gave this as the reason gigabit was not in our future: too costly... :rollseyes:

 

[hotcrandel]

I'd speculate IT Joe already has gigabit to his desk. It's such a common technology that most computer people have it in their homes.

I don't know your exact networking situation, but you can buy 24 port cisco gig switches for a couple grand, and not the small business kind.

 

[dashpuppy]

Haha, that's exactly what we do. Click to open an assembly, then go find something else to do. Formal complaints have been logged by others in the past, but to no avail. But hopefully, with some reading/knowledge/Power of the [H], I can call b.s. on IT and get my superiors to push them.

IT Joe has agreed to help get the entire G:\ drive onto my raid array. I'll let you know how that goes, when it goes.

Also: is going from 10/100 to Gigabit a costly endeavor? Go on the assumption that 800 total employees w/ only 20 to 50 using any significant amount of computing/network on a day-in/day-out basis (not sure that matters). IT Joe gave this as the reason gigabit was not in our future: too costly... :rollseyes:

You are shitting us right ? no wonder your network is so slow, 10/100 switches are so out dated and useless.. should ask yur boss to fire IT JOE! and replace him with someone who knows what your needs are.. Maybe ask the boss why it joe has gigabit but the important people like your self doesn't...

 

[aronesz]

Haha, that's exactly what we do. Click to open an assembly, then go find something else to do. Formal complaints have been logged by others in the past, but to no avail. But hopefully, with some reading/knowledge/Power of the [H], I can call b.s. on IT and get my superiors to push them.

IT Joe has agreed to help get the entire G:\ drive onto my raid array. I'll let you know how that goes, when it goes.

Also: is going from 10/100 to Gigabit a costly endeavor? Go on the assumption that 800 total employees w/ only 20 to 50 using any significant amount of computing/network on a day-in/day-out basis (not sure that matters). IT Joe gave this as the reason gigabit was not in our future: too costly... :rollseyes:

Overhauling the cabling might be the most costly part. IT Joe could get a HP ProCurve 1410-24G switch with lifetime warranty on it and use that, but to be honest I do not know what equipment the IT at your workplace actually has, how old and ancient it may possibly be, etcetera. Without knowing what equipment is already being used and possibly how the network is linked together, I personally don't really know what to advise.

I work in IT at my workplace, and the Engineers use SolidWorks too. Every outlet in the building has a dedicated 100mbit run that goes to a wiring closet. Wiring closets typically have some HP ProCurve 16xx/24xx/25xx 48-port managed switch (or two). I am not sure if the switches are interlinked as gigabit though, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were (it would only make sense that the backbone be of greater bandwidth tier to be able to support a ~100 some users in the same physically building who use a ThinClient/workstation). Engineering department is the same way, but I think the switch their department is hooked to has a gigabit backbone (but 100mbit to outlets).

And, just in general, you don't have to go with Cisco. Cisco is just a big name like Apple. There are other good vendors out there too -- like HP (they offer lifetime warranty on many of their networking products). As long as a sysadmin knows the fundamentals and generals to networking, switching, and routing, it really doesn't matter if you use Cisco or not. "The Cisco Way" is really mostly just a marketing and commercialization thing.

 

[geiger]

What kinda of phone do you have on your desk?

 

[jonnyjl]

You are shitting us right ? no wonder your network is so slow, 10/100 switches are so out dated and useless.. should ask yur boss to fire IT JOE! and replace him with someone who knows what your needs are.. Maybe ask the boss why it joe has gigabit but the important people like your self doesn't...

Without knowing how their company works, its kind of hard to determine why their network is so out of date and why their IT department is seemingly unresponsive.

The truth is, most old-school-of-thought businesses don't give two shits about infrastructure. They think blowing a wad of cash on the fastest servers, SANs, etc means something when the data/workload can't possibly be shared out to the clients (other "server" systems or end-users) in any speedy or equitable/balanced fashion. You have managers who listen to marketing material, "oh that new EMC thingamajig can do 250,000 IOPs!!!!! No wayz, can I haz?"... while the systems engineers are saying, "uh have you given a second thought about the antiquated fabric (or the workload characteristics) and/or network infrastructure that this crap is going to be plugged into?!?!? " This is the difference between non-systems and systems thinkers.

My guess is the OP will get GigE when the "business" departments cough up the cash for it.

My advice to the OP, keep complaining, and yeah get some nice SSD action on your local system

PS Sure seems to be a lot of assumptions (not necessarily from the person I'm quoting) about this being as easy as replacing ONE switch....

 

[leeleatherwood]

A single SSD will do what you need. Just make sure to send nightly backups to the server at night.

Another option is to create a small Gigabit network for the engineers. Assuming you all work in the same "area" this should be easy. You guys could have your own NAS just for Solidworks assemblies. Connect the "Engineers" gigabit switch to the rest of the 10/100 network to still have access to that part of the network.

 

[aubsxc]

Remind It that their existence is supported by the work you do, not the other way around. If it is not doing their job, find somebody who can make them do it and complain loudly until they address the situation. There is no excuse fofor this sort of attitude especially in todays economy where it personnel are a dime a dozen.

Hi all!

I'm hoping you can help me with a problem I'm having at work. I work with SolidWorks all day long and some of the assemblies I deal with are large (1000+ parts and subassemblies). The problem is that the server here is dog-turd-slow. More often than not, it will take 5 minutes or more to open a complete assembly (not lightweight). And seeing as how I have to open and close assemblies constantly and need the information on demand, this can get a bit frustrating. Especially when I get the wonderful "Not Responding" w/ Explorer.

Can I do something like get a couple of 2TB drives in Raid 0 in a USB3.0 enclosure, copy the entire drawing network drive (G:\) to it, and have it update itself on a schedule?

I would greatly appreciate some advice. IT here is not compliant with fixing the issue. They complain that our assemblies are too large. We complain that their network is too slow. It goes round and round like that.

Thanks in advance!

 

[CMadki4]

You are shitting us right ? no wonder your network is so slow, 10/100 switches are so out dated and useless.. should ask yur boss to fire IT JOE! and replace him with someone who knows what your needs are.. Maybe ask the boss why it joe has gigabit but the important people like your self doesn't...

Haha, my thoughts exactly. But there has got to be more to it than meets the eye. I wish it was a resistance free solution I could just put a req in for.

What kinda of phone do you have on your desk?

It's a Cisco.

Another option is to create a small Gigabit network for the engineers. Assuming you all work in the same "area" this should be easy. You guys could have your own NAS just for Solidworks assemblies. Connect the "Engineers" gigabit switch to the rest of the 10/100 network to still have access to that part of the network.

I like this idea. Seems like it would be a good isolated upgrade.

As far as an SSD, what size are thinking is sufficient? I figured up that on average I access 80% of the drawing drive, which is about 880GB. Are thinking of a smaller SSD used for caching?

 

[nobody_here]

nobody likes a complainer. are you paid by the hour? i bet the vast majority of people there don't complain about it. thats not to say it isn't bad.....but what i am saying is, shut up, and get paid by the hour to watch the hourglass sometimes.....

 

[CMadki4]

nobody likes a complainer. are you paid by the hour? i bet the vast majority of people there don't complain about it. thats not to say it isn't bad.....but what i am saying is, shut up, and get paid by the hour to watch the hourglass sometimes.....

• nobody likes a thread crapper
• i am salary
• everyone complains about it, i'm actually trying to do something about it
• watching the hourglass may be an acceptable choice for you, but not me and my coworkers

 

[nobody_here]

• nobody likes a thread crapper
• i am salary
• everyone complains about it, i'm actually trying to do something about it
• watching the hourglass may be an acceptable choice for you, but not me and my coworkers

I'm not crapping your thread bro, I'm giving you real world advice from a grown Solidworks user who has been there done that when it comes to office etiquette. You being salary get paid the same either way, the older I get the less willing I am to put my neck out. Let's look at it this way, they are willing to pay more to get less done, you need to learn how to be okay with that or find another job.

There are people in your company, including your manager, the IT staff, and the CFO among others who they pay a crap ton more than you to make budgetary decisions for the company. If they felt like they had the budget and it made sense to upgrade the network, they would upgrade the network. For whatever reason, they choose not to. Now you have made it clear you think it is too slow. Now they know what you think. They do not pay you for your opinion. They do not pay you to moan and groan about something they already know is slow. Especially if everyone complains about it. You cannot change it. You expressed your dissatisfaction with their network, now go sit back down and do your job. Do you think hearing it 100 times makes things any easier for your manager or the IT staff? You don't want to be that guy who is a loud complainer. It's like one of your children who keeps screaming "I want the toy!!". Even though you may really want to give it to them, they piss you off by complaining so much that you refuse to give them what they want out of spite.

So if I were you, and I have been you, I would sit back, relax, enjoy the slow moments life gives you, put on a pair of headphones and get lost in the tunes while you wait on their slow system. You get paid the same either way. I used to be like you, but I learned it does not actually help you and you only need to worry about yourself. Someone has decided it makes more financial sense to pay you to sit and wait than it does to upgrade the network. Accept the things you cannot change. Enjoy life.

 

[jen4950]

• nobody likes a thread crapper
• i am salary
• everyone complains about it, i'm actually trying to do something about it
• watching the hourglass may be an acceptable choice for you, but not me and my coworkers

Agreed-

I buy Dell PowerConnect 6248P (PoE Gigabit, stackable) switches for about 4G each with 4 hour mission critical support. We use them for our VoIP phones and desktops.

Your company will need at least twenty of them.

...

I worked for a big engineering firm back in the day, and IT was such a pain in the ass to deal with. I vowed to myself that I would never let IT get in the way of my company, and we are more efficient than ever because of it.

Payroll is so much more expensive than IT.

$100,000 of equipment is less than a day's worth of work (about 6 hours) for 800 people at 20 bucks an hour on average.

 

[jen4950]

I'm not crapping your thread bro, I'm giving you real world advice from a grown Solidworks user who has been there done that when it comes to office etiquette. You being salary get paid the same either way, the older I get the less willing I am to put my neck out. Let's look at it this way, they are willing to pay more to get less done, you need to learn how to be okay with that or find another job.

...

Enjoy life.

There is the difference between the "employee" mentality and the "employer" mentality. There are only those two.

The employer mentality is the type that truly strives to provide the client good value, work hard, and earn an ownership or management stake in the business. The enjoyment is in providing this value for this type of person. Waiting diminishes this greatly- it's like wasting your talent sitting idle waiting for a progress bar- that really pisses some people off.

An employee mentality is they are only there to collect a paycheck. That it doesn't matter what you do with your time at work- just as long as you can fog the mirror in the breakroom.

Some people prefer to not sit and watch files being downloaded across an antiquated network even if they are being paid. They want to create value for the people who are paying them with the expectation that career advancement and more challenging projects will come their way in time.

It's two different philosophies- different strokes for different folks.

Providing great value is how some people enjoy life.

IT should not get in the way of that; clients always appreciate young punks who bust their ass on their projects- at least that was my experience. And they do notice who does the work.

 

[the-one1]

I'm not crapping your thread bro, ..............................................Accept the things you cannot change. Enjoy life.

HERE! HERE!

 

[CMadki4]

I'm not crapping your thread bro, I'm giving you real world advice from a grown Solidworks user who has been there done that when it comes to office etiquette. You being salary get paid the same either way, the older I get the less willing I am to put my neck out. Let's look at it this way, they are willing to pay more to get less done, you need to learn how to be okay with that or find another job.

There are people in your company, including your manager, the IT staff, and the CFO among others who they pay a crap ton more than you to make budgetary decisions for the company. If they felt like they had the budget and it made sense to upgrade the network, they would upgrade the network. For whatever reason, they choose not to. Now you have made it clear you think it is too slow. Now they know what you think. They do not pay you for your opinion. They do not pay you to moan and groan about something they already know is slow. Especially if everyone complains about it. You cannot change it. You expressed your dissatisfaction with their network, now go sit back down and do your job. Do you think hearing it 100 times makes things any easier for your manager or the IT staff? You don't want to be that guy who is a loud complainer. It's like one of your children who keeps screaming "I want the toy!!". Even though you may really want to give it to them, they piss you off by complaining so much that you refuse to give them what they want out of spite.

So if I were you, and I have been you, I would sit back, relax, enjoy the slow moments life gives you, put on a pair of headphones and get lost in the tunes while you wait on their slow system. You get paid the same either way.

I appreciate your input. But you seem to be too eager to bash me and are missing the main point, which is NOT about complaining. Read carefully, and you'll see I'm really asking about using a raid enclosure to host all the drawing files and how feasible that is and if it will improve my load/save times. I'm not trying to change the world, or even my company. Just trying to make my little slice of the pie a little faster.

And please don't act like you know how everything works at every company and that you have all the answers. And you really don't need to be making broad assumptions about a company and employees you have no knowledge of. It makes you look like an ass.

If you have nothing useful to add, other than a more than likely rude rebuttal I suspect, just don't post at all. I'm sure there are some other threads you can go pound your chest at.

 

[nobody_here]

There is the difference between the "employee" mentality and the "employer" mentality. There are only those two.

The employer mentality is the type that truly strives to provide the client good value, work hard, and earn an ownership or management stake in the business. The enjoyment is in providing this value for this type of person. Waiting diminishes this greatly- it's like wasting your talent sitting idle waiting for a progress bar- that really pisses some people off.

An employee mentality is they are only there to collect a paycheck. That it doesn't matter what you do with your time at work- just as long as you can fog the mirror in the breakroom.

Some people prefer to not sit and watch files being downloaded across an antiquated network even if they are being paid. They want to create value for the people who are paying them with the expectation that career advancement and more challenging projects will come their way in time.

It's two different philosophies- different strokes for different folks.

Providing great value is how some people enjoy life.

I absolutely agree. I used to be one of those people. As you get older and experience and witness things, you come to find that sticking your neck out only serves to make you out to be the loud mouth. Nobody likes the guy who always complains. Nobody wants to hear it no matter how much you think it is justified. That's why I said he may need to find another job, because it sounds like they are aware and are uninterested in changing. So he will be perpetually unhappy working there for people with lowered expectations. He should find a job where the network doesn't slow him down so he has nothing to complain about.

 

[nobody_here]

I appreciate your input. But you seem to be too eager to bash me and are missing the main point, which is NOT about complaining. Read carefully, and you'll see I'm really asking about using a raid enclosure to host all the drawing files and how feasible that is and if it will improve my load/save times. I'm not trying to change the world, or even my company. Just trying to make my little slice of the pie a little faster.

And please don't act like you know how everything works at every company and that you have all the answers. And you really don't need to be making broad assumptions about a company and employees you have no knowledge of. It makes you look like an ass.

If you have nothing useful to add, other than a more than likely rude rebuttal I suspect, just don't post at all. I'm sure there are some other threads you can go pound your chest at.

I read it. Your employer doesn't utilize EPDM which is silly.... You said when you open the files on your local hard drive it is much faster than opening on the network. You said the network was the problem as have others. You said you complained to IT. You said they told you they were not going to upgrade the network switches. Adding a RAID array to your computer is not the solution to the problem with the network. The solution, as others have said, is for them to upgrade the network. And we have come full circle, they refuse to upgrade the network.......

I'm not bashing you. I am offering you experienced advice on your approach. You cannot change the situation. So you have to learn how to deal with it.

 

[CMadki4]

There is the difference between the "employee" mentality and the "employer" mentality. There are only those two.

The employer mentality is the type that truly strives to provide the client good value, work hard, and earn an ownership or management stake in the business. The enjoyment is in providing this value for this type of person. Waiting diminishes this greatly- it's like wasting your talent sitting idle waiting for a progress bar- that really pisses some people off.

An employee mentality is they are only there to collect a paycheck. That it doesn't matter what you do with your time at work- just as long as you can fog the mirror in the breakroom.

Some people prefer to not sit and watch files being downloaded across an antiquated network even if they are being paid. They want to create value for the people who are paying them with the expectation that career advancement and more challenging projects will come their way in time.

It's two different philosophies- different strokes for different folks.

Providing great value is how some people enjoy life.

IT should not get in the way of that; clients always appreciate young punks who bust their ass on their projects- at least that was my experience. And they do notice who does the work.

Thank you sir. I do enjoy trying to make things that I DO have control over better. Now there are engineers at my work who clock in, put the headphones on, do their 10 hours and leave. But I enjoy getting involved as a leader and support role. And you're right. They do recognize. That's why I get the fun projects, travel to interesting clients and get paid what I do. It's a blessing to be genuinely enthusiastic about my job and be rewarded proportionally for it. And sometimes that includes trying to make things just a little better for everyone. Bit by bit.

I'm thinking this thread touches a sore spot for a lot of IT folks who have had many migraines caused by engineers, haha. Thankfully, as dated as our networking hardware may be, at least my IT guys are willing to work with me to achieve a short tern and long term solution.

 

[jonnyjl]

• nobody likes a thread crapper
• i am salary
• everyone complains about it, i'm actually trying to do something about it
• watching the hourglass may be an acceptable choice for you, but not me and my coworkers

Then go into it with your department offering to pay for the upgrades. The best option suggested is a more your-use-case-dedicated NAS/network infrastructure... see if they are willing to do a skunk works type project and do what others are suggesting. Or settle on a more local solution (SSDs baby!), assuming the time spent pulling the files down locally and doing all the work locally would be better (remember, crap breaks).

I'm guessing the NAS idea probably won't go over well because they'll then be on the hook on trying to figure out how to have a decently performing NAS in an area that I'm guessing isn't going to be a well-cooled, humidity controlled Data Center, and they'd probably have to figure out how to do backups over the crappy 10/100mb infrastructure (I'm sure you don't need that right?). Who knows, if your use-case isn't so demanding they might go for it, just be prepared on what to ask for, do your homework on the kind of IO load your demanding, or at least what you'd want, and consider the impact downtime would have on your department and be able to communicate that effectively. Also, go in understanding that IT departments can't just crap out hardware, which I think you get but a few others in this thread do not.

I wonder how many people in this thread work in IT or possess a more than passing/superficial understanding on how companies (are you publicly traded?) work from a business-perspective. Quite honestly, its probably the OPs' management that will balk first when it starts coming down to dollars and cents since they can't justify ROI, otherwise these upgrades would have already been done, unless your IT department is truly lazy/incompetent.

Honestly, I bet if there was more of a charge-back model for IT departments, a lot of things would get done or people would be too cheap to ask. People seem to forget "computers" aren't created from and don't run on rainbows or unicorn tears, it costs quite a bit of money for anything SMB-to-enterprise-level. You either pay that up-front (Cap-ex) or you pay that through support, eg training, fixing issues, or trying to come up with a solution for features you would have had if you paid more up front. Cap-ex is usually the easier part for management (... since it doesn't require too much foresight) to justify (as opposed to more "soft" costs like training, which carries a risk if a person leaves the company) that's why a lot of people opt for Cisco equipment, even though their crap may not be better, they come with better options, fuller feature sets, better support, and a very "large" community.

Though, well-trained personnel will be able to make better purchasing decisions by identifying necessary feature-sets and doing proper risk analysis... or coming up with more home-brew solutions (though... a switch is a switch, can't really build one.. well you could, but meh, not worth it) but then again, that means those people would have to be well paid, eg they work for another company that doesn't think that in the year 2011,10/100 switches belong in critical areas of their infrastructure.

 

[jen4950]

I absolutely agree. I used to be one of those people. As you get older and experience and witness things, you come to find that sticking your neck out only serves to make you out to be the loud mouth. Nobody likes the guy who always complains. Nobody wants to hear it no matter how much you think it is justified. That's why I said he may need to find another job, because it sounds like they are aware and are uninterested in changing. So he will be perpetually unhappy working there for people with lowered expectations. He should find a job where the network doesn't slow him down so he has nothing to complain about.

I used to work for a high-end engineering firm- and I have ALWAYS had the employer mentality.

You learn how to work the system- you make buddies with the local IT guy (we had 11 international offices at the time IIRC) and offer to help him out. And then you make your business case.

We had a shit server at one time, a slow plotter, crappy workstations. I made the case everytime in our office of 30 as to why it would be a good investment. And one by one- as they bought the pieces, I would work the new equipment harder than anyone else.

I argued for a new OCE' plotter at one point- fancy laser plotter that spit out drawings rather than waiting for the inkjet. A year later- we had an extra 2 days to work on a massive project because we didn't have to plan for the plotting time. It was huge in the eye of the client, quality of work and value provided.

Telling this guy that it's not worth the fight is ludicrous in my opinion.

Giving in to a crappy system won't get you places- changing a crappy system and making the company more money will.

 

[CMadki4]

I'm not bashing you. I am offering you experienced advice on your approach. You cannot change the situation. So you have to learn how to deal with it.

You mean I cannot change the network. True. MY situation I can change. And this can be done by means of various suggestions by folks on this thread: NAS, SSD, raid, etc.

Again, thanks for your input. But I'm not rolling over and "dealing with it", as you keep suggesting. A reasonable solution is feasible. It would be silly for me "deal with it" if I have it within my own personal means to make it better.

Have a good night, nobody_here.

 

[nobody_here]

bunch of stuff....

Telling this guy that it's not worth the fight is ludicrous in my opinion.

Giving in to a crappy system won't get you places- changing a crappy system and making the company more money will.

It's life, sorry. I have seen too many good engineers get laid off when times get tight, because they were seen as "always negative, always complaining". Even though those engineers felt like they were "trying to make things change for the better", the way they were received was that of a complainer which is just one more check box closer to out the door when all other factors are equal. They see those people as unhappy and see them as a liability because they spread negativity in the work atmosphere. Listen when I tell you, there is no "you're making the company better". You are an employee, with a job function, that is all, perform it or they will cut you off like a diseased limb. You don't get to make a difference. Nobody really gives a damn what you think. You are disposable as the toilet paper the CEO used to wipe his rearend.

It's not giving into a crappy system. It's making use of what they decide they can afford and doing your job and letting the management do theirs, part of which is budgeting upgrades to the network and calculating the return on that investment. I bet you in his case someone did the math and decided it was not worth it at this time. If that's the case all the belly aching in the world will NOT help him. It will only hurt.

 

[jen4950]

Rant about how the bureaucracy can't be broken.

...

I run my own business (CEO), and I manage my own IT needs.

IT should be like when you tell Siri that you love her- all IT should say is "All you need is love, a good Dell rep, an IT consultant in each specialty, and a willingness to learn"

We operate in 37 states with 6 offices, We have a Highly Available Cluster with an Equalogic SAN, a DR plan, run centralized VoIP (Lync 2010), SQL Server and all of the support apps like Exchange, and have a private WAN network with a NBFW over MPLS.

The punchline is I can without hesitation say that payroll is more expensive than IT.

IT supports the payroll- there is no other way to look at it in nearly every business case with outlier exceptions like Google, Amazon Cloud or other hosting services.

 

[jonnyjl]

It's life, sorry. I have seen too many good engineers get laid off when times get tight, because they were seen as "always negative, always complaining". Even though those engineers felt like they were "trying to make things change for the better", the way they were received was that of a complainer which is just one more check box closer to out the door when all other factors are equal. They see those people as unhappy and see them as a liability because they spread negativity in the work atmosphere. Listen when I tell you, there is no "you're making the company better". You are an employee, with a job function, that is all, perform it or they will cut you off like a diseased limb. You don't get to make a difference. Nobody really gives a damn what you think. You are disposable as the toilet paper the CEO used to wipe his rearend.

It's not giving into a crappy system. It's making use of what they decide they can afford and doing your job and letting the management do theirs, part of which is budgeting upgrades to the network and calculating the return on that investment. I bet you in his case someone did the math and decided it was not worth it at this time. If that's the case all the belly aching in the world will NOT help him. It will only hurt.

Apparently people seem to forget there are crappily run companies that don't give a crap that you want to improve something if it can't provide trackable, immediate results (ROI!) that a bunch of morons that got a business degree can understand. Wait.. that's why our economy is doing great right, because of all the capable upper management running things. lol.

Sounds like the OP has a company that's open to change, so its probably worth it to pursue it. Do your homework, and go in with a good attitude, maybe puffing up their ego a little. Go in looking for help, because they're the smartest folks ever and you are in desperate need of their capable and competent work. Don't go in saying "wtf you morons, fix it!!!! I needs faster drawings!!" Though, if they're more introverted they won't appreciate the bullshit and just want facts and to the point conversations, which is where your properly researched use-case will peak their interest.

 

[nobody_here]

age i don't mind, it's the depressing realities that you have to deal with that sucks....best of luck to you...see you on the other side

 

[jen4950]

It's life, sorry. I have seen too many good engineers get laid off when times get tight, because they were seen as "always negative, always complaining". Even though those engineers felt like they were "trying to make things change for the better", the way they were received was that of a complainer which is just one more check box closer to out the door when all other factors are equal. They see those people as unhappy and see them as a liability because they spread negativity in the work atmosphere. Listen when I tell you, there is no "you're making the company better". You are an employee, with a job function, that is all, perform it or they will cut you off like a diseased limb. You don't get to make a difference. Nobody really gives a damn what you think. You are disposable as the toilet paper the CEO used to wipe his rearend.

It's not giving into a crappy system. It's making use of what they decide they can afford and doing your job and letting the management do theirs, part of which is budgeting upgrades to the network and calculating the return on that investment. I bet you in his case someone did the math and decided it was not worth it at this time. If that's the case all the belly aching in the world will NOT help him. It will only hurt.

Once again, you made my point for me.

You saw good engineers spend all of their time complaining about the crap they had to deal with. And they felt better because of it.

There is a big difference here-

The "employer" mentality addresses a problem, offers a solution, and keeps working hard. If there is resistance- offer a smaller solution- and make it shine, in the anticipation that management will see the value and be willing to invest in a larger improvement next time.

I worked it hard, and it worked. By the time I left, not only did we have state of the art systems and equipment; I was working on the largest, most complicated project in the history of the office. AND we got that project because we had the ability to handle it; we would not have gotten that job if we were stagnant the prior 3 years in IT upgrades.

Needless to say, I left on a high note and they missed me for years. I still send them a case of wine at Christmas. Why do I do that? Because it's all about relationships, how you treat people and how capable you are.

It's a really small world- if you are just there to catch a paycheck, you are going to remain stagnant.

 

[jonnyjl]

A bunch of e-peening

Um, who the frak cares you run a company. Most in IT don't give two shits about running companies, especially systems engineers. But yeah, I forgot, most CEOs roll up their sleeves and can get all technical. You're obviously the gold standard that everyone follows.

I'm sure that will help though, OP just tell the IT department to do it or you'll fire them. Have fun with consultants, you can bat that around for awhile

The punchline is I can without hesitation say that payroll is more expensive than IT.

I'm sorry, do you think anyone is debating that point?

The fact is, most management can't get their head out of their ass to realize that, they can't do proper risk assessment, and won't do proper ROI research.

Again, I point to our crumbling economy as proof of incompetent business management.

Of course, every company can just throw money at a problem and tell their investors, oh yeah sure... keep buying stock.

Sounds like you're in the services or marketing industry.