Eizo FS2331 or EV2333 - does it matter?

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tonyptony

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After all the research and help here I've come to the conclusion that, for my purposes, either the Eizo FS2331 or EV2333 would be a good choice. Much as I'd like a wide gamut display I'm not going to find one that I can live with for the price (< $600) in a 23" or 24" size. (Don't bother mentioning the U2410; we have these at work and I can't stand the AG coating.)

From what I've read they seem almost identical, with maybe the FS having a bit of an edge in the overdrive function. But can anyone explain the real differences between the two? I've also been told that the EV may have the edge in color accuracy - I'm hoping to get info from firsthand users.

The display will be calibrated using an Eye-One Pro spectro, for general use, occasional non-professional (but color managed) color photo work and printing, and infrequent gaming.
 
Before even considering either, take either home from a store with a good return policy (so you know you can return it) and test it for like a week to see if you can stand the gamma shift.

That's the number one thing here.

And from what I've read they both seem to be way overpriced in North America (assuming that's where you are).

I bought an FS2331 for a bit under $350, and ultimately it wasn't worth it and it had to go back (gammashift being one major reason, but there were other reasons as well).

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but your choices are basically (removing various individual display-specific problems from the equation):

Deal with IPS glow and intense AG
Deal with IPS glow and AG
Deal with IPS glow only (this option is those rare glossy IPS monitors)
Deal with gamma shift and AG
Deal with TN and AG
Deal with TN only (this option is glossy TN, also rare sadly)

Calculate the costs and benefits.
Weigh the good against the bad.

So ask yourself, is it worth spending lots of cash to get both IPS glow and very likely heavy AG...is GS worth paying for, etc... Or is it worth paying any sum when you still get AG... Etc.

Oh yeah, one other thing you should consider is if you find 1920x1080 in 23" (or in other words, a dot pitch of 0.265) acceptable, or if you'd prefer a 24".
 
Tamahagane said:
I bought an FS2331 for a bit under $350, and ultimately it wasn't worth it and it had to go back (gammashift being one major reason, but there were other reasons as well).
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to the other reasons Tamahagane. Unfortunately I've seen many of your other observations recently. Very frustrating to say the least. There is no where in my area where I can see either of these Eizo monitors. I would have to buy via mail order from a location that allows for easy returns. I've seen all the monitor types; next to my FW900 they all suck (although I do like the ACD in a darkened room), so it's a matter of what I can live with for the dollars indicated. I think I can deal with the *VA panels. I cannot deal with the AG on most IPS panels.
 
Other reasons being; input lag*, AG coating**, small size***. There were some other problems but they weren't of any real importance.

* it's at least 10ms. I game very little, but I tested an FPS and it was immediately noticeable (meaning it changed how the game could be played, because you couldn't move the way you normally do, cause you have to wait for the picture). This isn't just because of coming from CRT, I had a TN with no input lag (or at least it wasn't noticeable) a short while before the FS2331.

** it is indeed light compared to others like the one in Dells monitors and from a certain distance it's not noticeable and from high angles the monitor actually becomes a mirror. However, it still felt weird. Difficult to explain. Like you became slightly tensed up because of it. Looking at the screen it felt 'unnatural' somehow. I know this was because of the AG and not the GS, because under certain conditions (bright colors etc, using sites like Google or something (as opposed to this forum)) the GS wouldn't be noticeable while the AG on the other hand is ever-present (even if you sometimes forget about it). I switched back to a CRT and the first thing I noticed immediately within seconds was that it felt much easier to look at due to the clear screen surface, even when browsing mostly-white Google and such. The CRT, btw, had a custom res made before the FS2331 was bought to match the dot pitch of the FS2331, and so the CRT didn't feel better because everything was bigger or something like that.

Another note about the AG coating; when watching movies from a distance you generally don't see it, but when sitting at normal distance (actually because of the smaller size you may possibly want to sit a tiny bit closer) you immediately see it on the area where you're eyes are focusing. At the point of focus, around that, you'd see a sparkle pattern.

*** 1920x1080 in 23.0" felt cramped. 25" for that res is ideal for me based on the average dot pitch I'm used to, but 24" would probably be okay too.

24" for 1920x1080 might be the sweet spot actually, for most people. For this reason I think 16:10 screens ought to be at least 25.0" instead of just cramming 1920x1200 into 24".

I guess in percentage... that is to say, dividing up the total reason why I returned it, then the problems were:

Gamma Shift [50%], small size [20%], AG [20%], input lag [10%].

Then again, it's (a bit weird and) very difficult to judge like that. For example if I played lots of FPS it would be useless because the lag alone. And if it was larger, maybe the AG wouldn't be as bothersome (size and AG interacts in some way as to how any given display feels, I think a display with a tiny dot pitch + AG will make the AG appear more annoying / be more of a problem, vs/compared to a larger dot pitch with the same amount of AG.

But I can say that If it was 25" with no AG and zero input lag, then I still wouldn't have kept it because of the gamma shift.

If it had no GS (but then it can't be VA), then I probably would've kept it even though it would have the other problems. Because it does have very good colors and contrast.

It's annoying. Because Eizo's build quality is excellent. And there was no backlight bleed whatsoever (an extremely small, almost unnoticeable amount). They should make a 24" 1920x1080 IPS with A-TW polarizer and offer it in both light-AG and AG-free versions. Such a display from Eizo would be kicking major ass.

One last note... Even if some store would be selling it and you could go look at it, that's not enough. You have to test it for several days at least to get a proper feel of it.

I knew about gamma shift before I got the monitor, and all I really can say about GS is that it's impossible to describe properly. It's one thing reading about it, it's another to actually see it.

 
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Tamahagane said:
I know this was because of the AG and not the GS, because under certain conditions (bright colors etc, using sites like Google or something (as opposed to this forum)) the GS wouldn't be noticeable while the AG on the other hand is ever-present (even if you sometimes forget about it).
Click to expand...

What you are describing is typical PVA color shift. Some prefer a more confusing name for that - gamma shift.
It's present and visible in any situation from any viewing angle.
It is manifested as black crush, colors wash out and false 3D effect (sparkling).
Even if you look at a bright picture (no black crush) head on (minimal wash out) you still have false 3D effect.
 
The name GS is simply because the gamma values change, rather than the color itself (but of course, color will appear different when you lower or raise gamma).

Yeah of course it's always present, but it's much less noticeable on bright colors.

For example something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYnPsHdyRvA ... compared to, well, the Moria scenes in LOTR for example... Watching stuff like the video in the YT link there's extremely minimal "3D effect".

That effect is what I'm talking about when I say the GS isn't noticeable under certain conditions.

I guess what you mean however is that the actual shifting of gamma values always happen regardless of content viewed, and yeah that's true.

The Moria example is extreme though, conditions like that aren't required for GS to become a problem. Any normal, average scene, in general, in any movie makes will make it apparent (but even more so in certain cases of course).
 
Tamahagane said:
It's annoying. Because Eizo's build quality is excellent. And there was no backlight bleed whatsoever (an extremely small, almost unnoticeable amount). They should make a 24" 1920x1080 IPS with A-TW polarizer and offer it in both light-AG and AG-free versions. Such a display from Eizo would be kicking major ass.
Click to expand...

Sigh. Thank you for the very detailed and objective assessment. This is so frustrating. I agree that if Eizo or NEC currently made a monitor like this, it might very well be a giant killer. Unfortunately such a thing appears not to exist (at any kind of affordable price). I'm sitting here gradually watching my FW900 die, and I have no real alternative in my price range. If I knew of someone local who could fix it I'd drag all 97 pounds of it over in a shot.

I was set on trying one of these Eizos, but now I'm just depressed.
 
Tamahagane said:
Before even considering either, take either home from a store with a good return policy (so you know you can return it) and test it for like a week to see if you can stand the gamma shift.

That's the number one thing here.

And from what I've read they both seem to be way overpriced in North America (assuming that's where you are).

I bought an FS2331 for a bit under $350, and ultimately it wasn't worth it and it had to go back (gammashift being one major reason, but there were other reasons as well).

This probably isn't what you want to hear, but your choices are basically (removing various individual display-specific problems from the equation):

Deal with IPS glow and intense AG
Deal with IPS glow and AG
Deal with IPS glow only (this option is those rare glossy IPS monitors)
Deal with gamma shift and AG
Deal with TN and AG
Deal with TN only (this option is glossy TN, also rare sadly)

Calculate the costs and benefits.
Weigh the good against the bad.

So ask yourself, is it worth spending lots of cash to get both IPS glow and very likely heavy AG...is GS worth paying for, etc... Or is it worth paying any sum when you still get AG... Etc.

Oh yeah, one other thing you should consider is if you find 1920x1080 in 23" (or in other words, a dot pitch of 0.265) acceptable, or if you'd prefer a 24".
Click to expand...


Good post, surprising coming from a noobie.
 
albovin said:
This is ABC of LCD technology.
Study basics.
Click to expand...

yes but repeating the same things to everyone for years is frustration and explained as you do is the ABC of ignorance, on my S-PVA I have gamma shift but nothing such evident as you are bashing and nothing worse than IPS Glow.

You know that this is question of taste but you bash always in the same way.
 
The EV2333W is in no sense a low performance monitor. While it may lack the qualities of high-end wide gamut panels, it is still a Flexscan monitor and retains the same adjustment controls, 10-bit LUT and factory gamma adjustment.

The notion that PVA is unusable for graphics work or imaging is false, as demonstrated by all graphics monitor companies offering mid-range S-PVA monitors targeted directly at extended colour space graphics.

Having said this, I would recommend buying something with higher performance than the EV23 given your purposes. It is strange that you have ruled out the U2410 panel because of AG; If it is at all similar to the smaller Dell IPS panels, Then I don't see any issue.
 
Generally - about targeting and targets.
Their target is to stay in business.
Their target is to fill in their lines of products and to match competitors' lines of products.
To target this target they use supply products (panels) that are available and can be obtained economically.
Then marketing people come up and put labels with "targets".
Next year supply changes.
They use different panels with different parameters. But they put the same labels with the same "targets". Because their real targets (see above) did not change.

No one should be that naive to confuse three different things:
1. What manufacturers declare they "target".
2. What their products really are.
3. What consumers really want to get.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
It is strange that you have ruled out the U2410 panel because of AG; If it is at all similar to the smaller Dell IPS panels, Then I don't see any issue.
Click to expand...

Who, was this intended for me (the OP)? If it was, my response is that we do have many U2410s here at work. I can't stand the level of AG coating on them.
 
tonyptony said:
Who, was this intended for me (the OP)? If it was, my response is that we do have many U2410s here at work. I can't stand the level of AG coating on them.
Click to expand...

AG Coating on U2410 is one of the first 5 reasons why I bought a second Eizo S-PVA and sold the U2410.
 
TonypTony, are you Tamahagane's one-egg twin?

No?

Do you see where I'm going? ;)


Regarding the choice between the Foris FS2331 or EV2333WH, it should be obvious if there's not a huge price difference.
The overdrive function might be slightly faster on the foris 2331. I haven't seen anyone comparing the two displays at the same time so it's just an assumption.
But what about the stand?
The Foris has a fixed stand that can only be tilted.
The EV2333WH has a super ergonomic stand that allows the display to touch the desk, and from there be tilted a lot backwards so you really have a monitor that you're looking down upon. The range of adjustable height is at least 17½ centimeters, but I've read an even higher number on some Eizo site.
 
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Jonte said:
TonypTony, are you Tamahagane's one-egg twin?

No?

Do you see where I'm going? ;)


Regarding the choice between the Foris FS2331 or EV2333WH, it should be obvious if there's not a huge price difference.
The overdrive function might be slightly faster on the foris 2331. I haven't seen anyone comparing the two displays at the same time so it's just an assumption.
But what about the stand?
The Foris has a fixed stand that can only be tilted.
The EV2333WH has a super ergonomic stand that allows the display to touch the desk, and from there be tilted a lot backwards so you really have a monitor that you're looking down upon. The range of adjustable height is at least 17½ centimeters, but I've read an even higher number on some Eizo site.
Click to expand...

It may come with the Tristand instead of the fully adjustable stand.
 
Let's return the point to the question about difference between EV2333W and FS2331.
According to reviews monitor picture quality is the same with slightly faster FS2331.

The price difference looking for example at Amazon DE is 460 - 330 = 160 euro. I could have a FS2331 and buy an additional VESA monitor stand for 47 euro thus making the whole price 83 euro cheaper than EV2333.

Do you think this will worth it?
 
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