Upgrade x3 720 or 4870?

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donjn

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Messages
97
Specs:
Phenom x 3 720
4gb Ram
Radeon 4870 512mb

I mostly play cpu intensive online games like Rift. No need for top end for Crysis 2, etc.

I did the low resolution test in Rift and I am CPU bound, however I am still tempted to look at the Geforce 550 Ti. I have no issues going over to Intel and Nvidia. I just wnated to see right now where you think I am hurting the most, or do I even bother at this point? My system is very "2009"..

Is Intel kicking AMDs butt so bad that a non I5 or i7 processor is still better than an X3 720? Something like a Wolfdale?

I have about a $200 budget here so I need to work it carefully..

Thanks!
 
donjn said:
Specs:
Phenom x 3 720
4gb Ram
Radeon 4870 512mb

I mostly play cpu intensive online games like Rift. No need for top end for Crysis 2, etc.

I did the low resolution test in Rift and I am CPU bound, however I am still tempted to look at the Geforce 550 Ti. I have no issues going over to Intel and Nvidia. I just wnated to see right now where you think I am hurting the most, or do I even bother at this point? My system is very "2009"..

Is Intel kicking AMDs butt so bad that a non I5 or i7 processor is still better than an X3 720? Something like a Wolfdale?

I have about a $200 budget here so I need to work it carefully..

Thanks!
Click to expand...

can you unlock the cpu? i would wait for BD to come out. even if it isnt as good as core iX it will hopefully create some sort of price wars (at least im hoping!!!).
 
Attempt to unlock and overclock your CPU first off. Second do not get a 550 Ti it is not a upgrade from your 4870 whatsoever, they're roughly the same speed. Third what is resolution and PSU?
 
1. I run 1680 x 1050 because i have a 22' monitor. That is fine for me.
2. I do know Rift is poorly optimised
3. I did some small overlocking already from 2.8. I think 3.2 or 3.3 should be easy.
4. i do not have the right MB to unlock the 4th core

thanks for your help guys!
 
I would save your money, i am on a athlon x3 425 at 3.4 and am not suffering to much and a 5770, its about as powerful as yours.
 
donjn said:
1. I run 1680 x 1050 because i have a 22' monitor. That is fine for me.
2. I do know Rift is poorly optimised
3. I did some small overlocking already from 2.8. I think 3.2 or 3.3 should be easy.
4. i do not have the right MB to unlock the 4th core

thanks for your help guys!
Click to expand...

PSU?
 
Go for the gpu upgrade. The hd 5850 xtreme is the best deal@ 130 right now and would be great. From nvidias side I would reccommend the gtx 460 1gb or if you can find it for cheap, the gtx 560ti
 
On a $200 budget an HD6950 1GB is the best value hands down.
 
donjn said:
Specs:
Phenom x 3 720
4gb Ram
Radeon 4870 512mb

I mostly play cpu intensive online games like Rift. No need for top end for Crysis 2, etc.

I did the low resolution test in Rift and I am CPU bound, however I am still tempted to look at the Geforce 550 Ti. I have no issues going over to Intel and Nvidia. I just wanted to see right now where you think I am hurting the most, or do I even bother at this point? My system is very "2009"..

Is Intel kicking AMDs butt so bad that a non I5 or i7 processor is still better than an X3 720? Something like a Wolfdale?

I have about a $200 budget here so I need to work it carefully..

Thanks!
Click to expand...

OK Number One Bro.

A 512MB Graphics card is holding you back, and Bottle-necking you out of optimum FPS. (Way more so than your CPU, most modern games I play require over 500MB easily. When I check GPU-Z Memory usage I see 550MB to 750 MB in my games on average) so you will need at least 896MB-1GB for your game resolution (1680x1050) with some decent eye candy (AA, AF, high details, shadows etc.). You need to find someone to sell that GPU to, get whatever you can get to reinvest in a more capable graphics card or just give it away to someone you like / friend.

Now your best options @ under 200.00 would be a 460GTX, or 6870 AMD. Both have 1GB Models, so only choose those, to be safe and not crash out your GPU's memory capacity.

Personally if you could get 30.00+ for your old card... You should look at the 6950 and 560Ti with 1 GB memory. They start @ 229.99, and they outperform the 460 and 6870 + they are excellent price to performance Direct X 11 cards.

One other card to possibly consider is the 99 dollar Gigabyte 260 GTX card on Newegg. It is an older card yes, but a great card, and can be SLI'd. It also has 896 MB memory which is very close to 1 GB and defiantly enough for today's games on a SINGLE MONITOR / SCREEN. Downside is that it is only Direct X 10 capable, not DX 11. So if you plan on playing heavily tessellated games in the future, that option will not work for you with this card. But it is a solid buy @ 99 dollars on Newegg today. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125380 I'm semi tempted to grab one and wait for an AM3+ mobo and SLI + get a 8 SATA Ports. But I really think TES: Skyrim will use tessellation, and will look great with it. So maybe I should get a DX 11 card. Either way make sure your Power Supply has at least 2 of the 6 pin connectors to run it smoothly, if you decide to go that route.

Now when it comes to your CPU, AMD officially states that it can run from 0.850 - 1.425 volts. That means right away I would check your bios, and take your CPU to at least 1.4 Volts in the bios for now (If your case has reasonable cooling 2-3 Case fans minimum + fan working on your CPU of course ;)). If your CPU is not a B.E. like mine then, then you'll want to raise your FSB. I bet you can easily be stable at a slight OC of 220 FSB from the 200 stock. Multiplied from your locked14x multiplier = 3.080 GHz. Also put your NB Voltage @ .20000 Volts below your Vcore. (So that would be like 1.40000 CPU VCore, and 1.2000 North Bridge Vcore. That should easily run stable, but also make sure to install a free program Core Temp 32/64 and don't go over the TJ. max: listed for your CPU in Core Temp. Also to get this slight OC smooth you will need to make sure your 4GB of system memory is capable to run @ it's highest speed or under that speed to be stable on memory. Some memory can go a little beyond what the manufacturer states. For example my 1333 DDR3 memory can go from 500Mhz-1400Mhz stable @ any of those speeds. You want to shoot for the highest FSB with the highest Memory speed. ;) Always check what your memory is running @ last and double check it's CAS latency etc. timings. Which are set where they need to be (if you don't know sometimes they are listed clearly on the sides of the memory or it's heat spreader if you forget) set those you can /know and leave the rest at Default / Auto in BIOS, it helps a little, but there can be performance loss if not set to spec. Save and Exit.

If your CPU runs without reaching temps above TJ. MAX. in Core Temp, and also without rebooting (usually means not enough CPU or NB Vcore) / or blue screening (usually means memory is not at a stable speed). Then try dropping the Vcore 1 increment in the bios at a time until it doesn't boot and / or freeze's. Then go with the VCore above that and test it. And if it is stable after a couple more days that should be an optimum Vcore without putting unnecessary voltage on your chip. You could also try dropping the NB Vcore this way also if needed which runs your NB cooler. *Who knows if your feeling adventurous try and see how high you can push it above spec later, especially if you have a CPU cooler with heat-pipes and radiator with a larger than stock fan. So you might get the same overclock @ like 1.3750 CPU Vcore, and 1.1750 NB Vcore and run your system a little bit cooler.

If you have a Black Edition CPU I believe you just raise the Volts and Multiplier until your satisfied. And double check your memory. Save and Exit.

Another thing you can do that usually raises your minimum FPS is to turn OFF AMD, Cool N' Quiet while your in the BIOS screen. That seems to give me 4-5 FPS higher MINIMUMS when I disable it on demanding games like you're encountering.

Now here is what you should wait to purchase. Wait on an AM3+ Motherboard. (Releasing around mid June 2011) Your current CPU is AM3 and will work fine in a board like that. If you buy a newer AM3+ board when they are out or a little after they are. You will want to look for one with an Unlock CPU Core option enabled so you can get your 4th Core working for you. Also maybe you will want to switch over to SLI, or stay with AMD and go CFX someday. Well you will have both options with AM3+ boards. Also you might not have SATA 6 or USB 3.0 curently, they will have that also on AM3+. This way if you need more SATA Ports with more bandwidth than SATA 2 provides you will get that! Be sure to find one that has plenty (6+) I would recommend, but everyone is different. Also try and pick out a new board that has a UEFI Bios so you can purchase 3TB drives if you enjoy that amount of space. Who know maybe a new AM3+ board will net you a more stable or high OC in the end also. If you do that you will get the most from your current CPU, and still have room to upgrade to CFX / SLI and the new Bull Dozer CPU's with 4, 6, and 8 cores. That should be a great PC for a couple years easy.

I hope my advice helps you. :p
 
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teletran8 said:
One other card to possibly consider is the 99 dollar Gigabyte 260 GTX card on Newegg.
Click to expand...

No, no, and no. Do not get a dated card like that. There is no reason. That is a total side grade as a 4870 even hampered with 512MB is roughly the same speed. To top it off that is 192 core. Not a 216.

Do not get that GTX 460 either. That is way to over priced to be considering that card.

These cards are far better options:
6870
GTX 560 Ti
6950 1GB

I do not even see a GTX 460 worthwhile getting on newegg. There are regular sales for them going around 120ish after MIR or better.

You still never listed your PSU either. I looked through your thread history and came across a few threads about PSUs. Looked like you have fried a couple parts in the past. Do you still have that corsair 550W?
 
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Also, I have kind of had it with ATI lately. I have been using ATi cards and had all of the classic ones going back to the 9800 days. I have never been a fan of the Catalyst Control Center, their cards always run hotter than Nvidia cards, and I always feel their drivers are not up to par. Plus most games are optimised for Nvidia. At least the ones I want to play.

I want to get an Nvidia card. They actually run Rift better too.
 
I used to own an X3 720 @ 3.4 Ghz with a GTX260 216 and my games were running pretty average. I then upgraded the cpu to an i7 950 and kept the 260 and let me tell you it made a WORLD of difference. The Phenom was bottlenecking a single 260 and when I tried two 260 in SLI the bottlenecking was confirmed because I saw no improvements at all.

I could go on and on about how you need to upgrade your cpu over your graphic card, but I know everyone's going to be against me haha.

Honestly though,a new cpu could give a second life to your video card and the upgrade of the gpu could wait a little longer. Even with your low budget a simple i3 540 and a little MSI board would destroy the phenom
 
Thanks Ghys i agree with you. I am going to hold off for now and concentrate on a new cpu and board.

Do you think I should wait for the Bulldozer's? I have an AM3 board and I heard they will work no with them. Or do I go all Intel at this point?
 
Don't do a cpu upgrade its garbage and not worth it. I went from my phenom x4 955 @ 3.6 to the W3520 an evga classified and 6gb of corsair memory and sure it helped a little bit, but honestly the ~450$ for it wasn't worth it. I have your card and its junk in new games if you don't play at medium settings. Go with a new gpu and get a new cpu/mobo when bulldozer comes out.

Now to compare something, my brother has an E6750 @ around 3.3ghz with 4gb DDR2 and basically everything is inferior to my setup except his HD 6950 2gb which is way superior to my HD 4870 512mb. We both game @ 1920x1080 and he has a much better gaming experience than I do. Both of our harddrives are starting to turn to shit so we both have some occasional micro lag, but still even in BF BC2 his game runs much better maxed out compared to mine at medium.
 
Ghys said:
when I tried two 260 in SLI the bottlenecking was confirmed because I saw no improvements at all.
Click to expand...

Your correct about the SLI scaling on a 260GTX being horrible, most you will see is like 30 percent @ 1920 x1200. At lower resolutions it's even less. Forget that GPU. Just get the money for a 560Ti or 570 GTX OP.
 
Such conflicting advice here. I appreciate the effort but please remember to look at my situation or read my posts again. I do not need awesome super end Crysis 2 graphics. I just want to run online CPU INTENSIVE games better.

I am frustrated because the open box GTX 460 Superclocked was $150 on New Egg and now it was sold. I could have ordered this an hour ago.

Now i am leaning back towards a 6870:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161349&cm_re=6870-_-14-161-349-_-Product
 
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I still think you should go with a new CPU. Reading reviews of recent cards is useless because the figures that you see aren't representative of what you will get. If your CPU is the bottleneck, which I know from experience that it is, you will get more or less the same results with a 6850/6870/6950/6970/460/560

Of course, regardless of what you do, a perfect upgrade would involve a new CPU and a new GPU but since it's not an option, you will have to compromise something. That's why i would go with a CPU/board/ram first. There are some great boards today for very cheap and the ram is at its lowest price in years. Upgrading those parts now would be cheap and you could benefit from the upgrade in all situations, not just gaming. If you buy a video card which your cpu can't keep up with, you will spend a few hundred bucks on a card that won't help you outside of games and that won't be able to work @ 100% in games


That's my opinion. It's what I did a few months ago and I don't regret it at all
 
Ghys are you trying to make yourself feel better about your own upgrade or something?
If he gets a new cpu/ram/mobo his games will not play better what so ever. Read my post again, my brothers E6750 with 4gb ddr2 and an HD6950 is raping my W3520 with 6gb ddr3 and HD4870 512mb. My games feel a little bit smoother than before when I had an X4 955, but that is because it has 8 threads and its only noticeable in games like BF BC2 and even then its barely there.

He has an X3 for crying out loud, that's not gonna bottle neck much if he is going with a single card, sli and crossfire maybe and then just barely. OP, don't do the stupid upgrade I chose with CPU/Mobo/Memory, it nets you basically 0 performance for a lot of money. Get a HD 6870 or something and you will be happy, if not OC your CPU a bit more.

And yes it includes a CPU intensive game such as BF BC2. Your X3 will be fine considering my brothers E6750 is still doing pretty well for being a dual core @ 3.3ghz.
 
I thought my point was quite clear. Regardless of what he upgrades,he won't get 100% of what he paid for because what's left to be upgraded will bottleneck the other part severely. I explained that I believe a cpu upgrade is money better invested, especially in his case.

I can still understand why everyone says to upgrade the video card but I know it's not necessarily a good investment.

An X3 can definitely bottleneck a video card. Mine was overclocked to 3.4 and my 260 was never at 100% gpu usage in BC2. I actually went from a X3 720 @ 3.4 to an X4 965 @ 3.8 to an i7 950 and, even then, the upgrade was immense. The 965 never maxed my 260 either.

OP, do whatever you want. I know you will end up purchasing just a video card because it's the easiest thing to do. I do hope it will work well for you and I don't doubt you will get a performance boost but I also don't doubt it won't be that great
 
Ok my x4 955 had all cores maxed and I think my GPU was at 80-85% usage, yet with my new W3520 my cores are at 15,18,16,50% usage and I think the threads are pretty high but it obviously can't record those. My GPU is at 100% usage yet the game still feels as shitty as it did before on the same settings, with it still lagging occasionally. (BFBC2). The CPU/MOBO/Ram upgrade did nothing for me, even if it increased the GPU usage by 15-20% there was no increase in performance. I just think people take this CPU bottleneck thing a bit too seriously at times. It may be more relevant in SLI/Crossfire and on.

I am just trying to save the OP from the expensive mistake I made.

To sum it up, if you wanna wait to max your games out go with the CPU/mobo/ram route, if you wanna max out your games now and be satisfied for a while, go the GPU route.
 
In a perfect scenario, a gamer would have a video card capable of handling new games at a decent resolution and with settings maxed out. In this scenario, the video card would be at 100% and the cpu would still have plenty of room left. This way, a future upgrade would include just a new video card.

It's too bad the upgrade did nothing for you. Like you, I think people take the bottleneck think too seriously, except I think it's the other way around ;) . People rely too much on GPU power and don't even bother checking if the GPU is used at 100% or not.

OP - I don't want to be responsible for a bad upgrade. Go and buy a new video card and you will definitely get better results. Just remember that you will still be due for another upgrade to exploit your brand new gpu ;)
 
My heart says GPU because its easier.

But my brains say CPU.

Rift runs 60fps everywhere. Sometimes higher. In cities with lots of players around that number drops to 25 to 30. MMORPGs are notorious for being CPU intensive in cities. Google "Dalaran FPS" sometime regarding WoW. WoW had graphics so easy to run, yet when in a crowded city the FPS would drop. And then you look and see your GPU is not anywhere near 100% being used. Why? because the CPU can't feed it informaiton fast enough. The GPU is waiting for the CPU.

I have also dropped resolutions down to 1024 x 768 and my frameartes were IDENTICAL. This is the classic CPU bottleneck scenario.

It might be more "in vogue" to say that phrases like "CPU bottleneck" are overused. But given all of the above how is it not true XIronCrossx?
 
donjn said:
My heart says GPU because its easier.

But my brains say CPU.

Rift runs 60fps everywhere. Sometimes higher. In cities with lots of players around that number drops to 25 to 30. MMORPGs are notorious for being CPU intensive in cities. Google "Dalaran FPS" sometime regarding WoW. WoW had graphics so easy to run, yet when in a crowded city the FPS would drop. And then you look and see your GPU is not anywhere near 100% being used. Why? because the CPU can't feed it informaiton fast enough. The GPU is waiting for the CPU.

I have also dropped resolutions down to 1024 x 768 and my frameartes were IDENTICAL. This is the classic CPU bottleneck scenario.

It might be more "in vogue" to say that phrases like "CPU bottleneck" are overused. But given all of the above how is it not true XIronCrossx?
Click to expand...


Boom ! Here's your answer !
 
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donjn said:
Did all the Rift adjustments already...

What do you think for a close to $200 setup:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz $158
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103727

MSI 760GM-P33 AM3 AMD 760G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130559
Click to expand...

That post above shows no real improvements over a three core CPU. Just overclock your current one and that will relieve some of the bottleneck. Moving to a 965 from a 720 makes no sense. Go with the GPU upgrade of some kind. Talk about flip flopping here.
 
Upgrade to a 5850 1GB for $140 bucks and OC your CPU. You should definitely see a major improvement. The 720 should reach 3.4ghz with ease and will do very well with games at that frequency.
 
GPU defo

u won't see series 7000 till next spring, and buldozer is around the corner.
 
donjn said:
Also, I have kind of had it with ATI lately. I have been using ATi cards and had all of the classic ones going back to the 9800 days. I have never been a fan of the Catalyst Control Center, their cards always run hotter than Nvidia cards, and I always feel their drivers are not up to par. Plus most games are optimised for Nvidia. At least the ones I want to play.

I want to get an Nvidia card. They actually run Rift better too.
Click to expand...

Rift isn't that demanding, plus since ATi's HD 3x00 series, AMD had been holding the upper hand in lower power consumption and less TDP compared to nVidia's same generation competition. But the recommendations that xbanzai89 did were great.

HD 6870 - Third best option as it consumes less power than the other two options and has very good DX11 performance, sometimes it can outperform the GTX 560 by a slim margin.

GTX Ti 560 - Second best option since it's a bit erratic in performance, sometimes is faster than the HD 6950, sometimes even the HD 6870 is slightly faster, but it has CUDA and PhysX if you care.

HD 6950 - Best option as it has predictable performance and is slightly faster than the GTX 560 Ti, low thermals and stuff like Eyefinity if you care about it.

In overall, choose what suits you best according to your needs and costs.
 
Grab one of the awesome cheap 5850's, or just wait for Bulldozer, and inevitably cheap cards anyway. If I were you, I'd hold out longer.
 
donjn said:
Such conflicting advice here. I appreciate the effort but please remember to look at my situation or read my posts again. I do not need awesome super end Crysis 2 graphics. I just want to run online CPU INTENSIVE games better.

I am frustrated because the open box GTX 460 Superclocked was $150 on New Egg and now it was sold. I could have ordered this an hour ago.

Now i am leaning back towards a 6870:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161349&cm_re=6870-_-14-161-349-_-Product
Click to expand...

Looks good to me. I had an HIS 5970 before that ran great during the time I had it.
 
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