Microsoft: Blu-ray is Going to be Passed by as a Format

Dekoth-E- said:
Ever see a 20mb connection pull down at a solid 2.7mb/s for 5 minutes much less 90? What was that? No? That's what I thought. That and there is a difference between megabyte and megabit, but that is another argument entirely.
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My 30mbps connection pulls 4.2 megaBYTES per second 24/7 ;)
 
MMAOmegaRED said:
If Blu-rays were as cheap as DVD's then it would be no contest; they will drop dramatically in price long before broadband speeds are fast enough for HD streaming and then all those who knock BD will be raving how for a few bucks they get 7.1 lossless audio and beautiful 1080p picture they can actually OWN rather than a download which no one else can borrow.
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Check Amazon.com They have a ton a of good BD movies for $8.99 - 9.99.

I currently own Laserdiscs, HD-DVD's, and BD. I only buy my favorite movies though.
 
trooper11 said:
it would be itneresting to see some numbers to back that up. i wonder how many households have internet access good enough to stream SD or HD content. I would think SD level access would be rather high.

Either way, if SD access the majority, that doesnt change the convenience/price issue that will attract alot of average users. I mentioned a year becuase of all the announcements of new hardware for stremaing media locally over your home nework and internet sources like netlfix. the hardware is going to be there are prices anyone can afford.
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I wish I had/could remember the numbers. Sadly I don't. Just remember its pretty abysmal. I remember a couple years ago the average broadband speed was below 1Mb/s. Probably changed since then.

Oh local streaming is great. You can easily stream full quality 1080p in a home network. The problem isn't just internet speed, its quality of connection and considering most broadband connections are cable or DSL you have to deal with the connection speed jumping around or in this ideal future of everyone streaming HD content nodes being overloaded.
 
The broadband infrastructure is nowhere near setup nationwide to handle true blu-ray quality streaming. The % of people that have access to the kind of connection that could make it possible is extremely small.

It is one thing to download ripped blu-ray quality movies, but it is another to actually stream blu-ray quality films. Downloading and streaming are obviously two different things.

It is really not even worth arguing over.
 
The Blu-ray license fee goes to a consortium, but it's mostly Sony who gets most of the $30 or so license fee.

SD DVD streaming is already shitty on my Internet connection, but the biggest factor of resistance from me is that the choice of streamed HD movies is just appalling. It's all right if you watch only mainstream movies, but very frustrating for someone who loves movies. Streaming is just not an option for me.

Also, I really don't want to pay extra for a faster Internet connection if it's just to stream movies in a quality lower than BD.
 
Steve said:
I am not "anti" Blu-ray.

I am "pro" digital downloads.
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+1

American internet speeds are too slow to support downloads as a viable media replacement...right now. 10 years from now, I hope it is fast enough to replace physical media.
 
Chimel said:
The Blu-ray license fee goes to a consortium, but it's mostly Sony who gets most of the $30 or so license fee.

SD DVD streaming is already shitty on my Internet connection, but the biggest factor of resistance from me is that the choice of streamed HD movies is just appalling. It's all right if you watch only mainstream movies, but very frustrating for someone who loves movies. Streaming is just not an option for me.

Also, I really don't want to pay extra for a faster Internet connection if it's just to stream movies in a quality lower than BD.
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where did you get this information from?
 
computerpro3 said:
Again, a lot of you are talking out of your ass. On usenet I can download UNCOMPRESSED bluerays in about an hour to an hour and a half (40GB files), with no ads, trailers, or copy protection.

Explain to me how physical bluray is better?
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Generally, the part where it's NOT ILLEGAL is a big plus.
 
Until ISPs upgrade their backbone even the small ISPs streaming 1080P wont happen anytime soon. Too many people still have low bandwidth some people are still on dial-up. Plus Blu-ray players are now $98 at walmart with streaming to it built in. And now a lot of Blu-ray movies are $7.99-$9.99 at best-buy and walmart and online like at amazon.com. It's going to be around for a while.
 
I just want to know exactly how blu-ray is bad for the consumer. If you're going to make this claim, back it the fuck up. I've been renting blu-rays over netflix for years now and have been loving it.
 
I think downloads are nice, but I like to have a physical copy of what I purchased. VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, (insert future format)...because I feel that there's a value to having a physical copy of my purchase. For rental, hey, digital downloads are nice. If my wife and I actually rented a movie more than every few months, Netflix would be a good idea since I have both a PC and a PS3 hooked up to our TV. But, if you want to talk about paying to own a copy of said movie, TV show, even games, then yeah, I want a physical copy. Even if it's not something my equipment makes full use of (I have a 32" 720p TV), I still want the physical copy if I own said copy. No digital download, not with the way the MPAA is.
 
Steve said:
The best way to avoid an argument or piss anyone off is to simply say:


I am not "anti" Blu-ray.

I am "pro" digital downloads.
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this is it exactly

I think blu-ray is a stop-gap that will do what it needs to while the Net catches up.

the problem here is the rest of the 1st world nations will move to digital before us and we'll have blu-ray pushed down our throats at marked up prices for as long as possible.

I don't have anything against blu-ray as a format except for cost. for me it really just comes down to cost implementations...yes it's coming down, but taking say...hd-dvd and if that had won where would the costs be, they were already lower than BR and would have lowered as supply and demand evened out.

Blu-ray is alright, but i'm not particularly enchanted with it, i have a few titles and they look good, but the costs of good movies that properly utilize the format are just too much for me to justify at the moment.
 
considering that digital downloads starve the bitrate, and don't provide lossless audio, effectively cheating the customer of the best experience for their film, Blu-ray is here to stay.
 
computerpro3 said:
Digital download IS ALREADY THE SAME QUALITY AS BLURAY. Just not from netflix and shit like that.
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I have HD-DVD, Blu-ray, and I've bought some digital downloads from the sony store on my ps3.

Yes, the download was as good as a blu-ray for the video, the audio was similar to what you get on DVD. The quality was good enough that i could really see it being an alternative to blu-ray except for the DRM.

The DRM means that right now instead of buying the content, I'm buying the distribution service. To me that is much more an equivalent movie theaters and cable tv, at least when it comes to first run consumption. In fact the only reason why I did that was because I had moved and was without TV for about 2.5 months, and wanted to see the last 3 episodes of a particular show.

I expect them to be disposable because there is no way to get them off my ps3, it's unclear if they would still work after a hard drive upgrade, or if there is any way to get them back after replacing a hard drive or getting a ps4. I'm pretty sure if I want to buy a non-sony product, there's no way they will work or be transferable.

My blu-rays will work on whatever blu-ray player I buy. That is what we are used to with vhs, dvd, CDs, cassette tapes, records, hddvd, and blu-ray. We will notice this going away.

I think the only real barrier to digital downloads being able to dominate will be the hardware makers, software makers, and studios coming up with a standard of distribution. they need something like steam, need to establish trust that it will persist for an extended period, and need to make it so I can buy and replace consumer set top hardware that will speak with it across multiple generations.
 
Disagree, I've yet to see a digital download that as good AND flexible as Blu Ray but I do see his point to some extent. I watch all of the movies I want to get into on Blu Ray currently.
 
With the way ISP's are lowering the monthly caps and raising prices, we'll be lucky to be able to download our "diigital purchases" without going over our cap in a given month.

Sure caps may sit around 250GB now, but they'll only get lower and lower as VZ, Comcast and others realize they can make more money offering higher caps at higher prices, so people can download all their content. Of course they'd also love to slap you with 'overage" fees if you go over that lovely low cap.

It'll be great, pay $70 for a game, and an extra $20 just to be able to download it without blowing through your monthly cap (along with TV and other net usage).

I guess I'm one of the few who prefer to have hard copies of their media in hand so I can do what I want with it when I want without worrying about breaking some limit imposed by a company that's already too rich for it's own good and just trying to get richer off being a "dumb pipe".
 
While I don't foresee myself stocking up on BDs like I did CDs and DVDs, I'll eventually get a BD player or BD ROM/RW for my HTPC and rent BD movies from Redbox and the like.
 
Azhar said:
where did you get this information from?
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Don't remember which article, that was long ago, but it basically said that Sony owned more Blu-ray patents than any other partner of One-Blue LLC. I agree it's unverified and unreliable information, I'd be glad to see how these license fees are redistributed exactly. Even more glad to see the end of this money-making scheme, but that's another sony, sorry, story.

Also, I read another article this year saying that every single Blu-ray disc in the world was pressed by Sony only, who is the only one with such BD manufacturing plants, because of the 11 cents / disc license fee, so that's another source of revenue for Sony. Again, I am no journalist and don't track these sources (most likely via Ars Technica or C/NET), that article sounded fantastic indeed if it's true.
 
If I want to see a movie... I watch in the theater.

I never watch movies at home, only TV shows. And compressed HD streams for my TV shows are entirely acceptable.
 
Steve said:
The best way to avoid an argument or piss anyone off is to simply say:


I am not "anti" Blu-ray.

I am "pro" digital downloads.
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haha, I have one blu-ray player in my home and its collecting dust. While the Wii with netflix streaming has gotten all the attention in the 5-6months. My HTPC is loaded with DVD quality video, I never rip blu-rays either.
 
IRSmurf said:
If I want to see a movie... I watch in the theater.

I never watch movies at home, only TV shows. And compressed HD streams for my TV shows are entirely acceptable.
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Some of us don't want to sit in a crowded theater while watching our high definition pr0n.
 
So Mr. Gates. When do you plan on stopping by my neighborhood and getting me some sort of decent internet connection to support streaming HD without it looking like crap.
 
Limahl said:
With the way ISP's are lowering the monthly caps and raising prices, we'll be lucky to be able to download our "diigital purchases" without going over our cap in a given month.

Sure caps may sit around 250GB now, but they'll only get lower and lower as VZ, Comcast and others realize they can make more money offering higher caps at higher prices, so people can download all their content. Of course they'd also love to slap you with 'overage" fees if you go over that lovely low cap.

It'll be great, pay $70 for a game, and an extra $20 just to be able to download it without blowing through your monthly cap (along with TV and other net usage).

I guess I'm one of the few who prefer to have hard copies of their media in hand so I can do what I want with it when I want without worrying about breaking some limit imposed by a company that's already too rich for it's own good and just trying to get richer off being a "dumb pipe".
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Guess what, you're wrong. True or false, internet speeds have been growing over the last decade?
 
IRSmurf said:
And compressed HD streams for my TV shows are entirely acceptable.
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Fuck it, I'm quite content with SD netflix (all my crappy DSL can handle) on a 100" projector. When I do buy blu-rays they last about as long as it takes to rip them, at which point they're no more than digital downloads anyway.
 
Domingo said:
While I tend to agree with him about some things, Blu-Ray still features vastly superior audio options. Granted 99% of people will never know or care, but it is a factor.
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If only 1% of the people care then it's not a factor
 
Sure, blu-ray will be obsolete, but I don't think that day will come before the xbox 360 is obsolete.

I bet microsoft puts a blu-ray drive in the next xbox iteration rather than having it download-only.

sore loser?
 
Litfod said:
Fuck it, I'm quite content with SD netflix (all my crappy DSL can handle) on a 100" projector. When I do buy blu-rays they last about as long as it takes to rip them, at which point they're no more than digital downloads anyway.
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But the argument is blu-ray versus streaming. Not DVD versus streaming.
 
What's Microsoft going to do with their next generation Xbox? Make their own disc format?
 
Maybe it will be all over the net? It really makes sense to try that or offer something in both forms.

M$ is right but the question is how fast will it happen you could have said the same thing back in the days of CDs and technically it would have been true. But large amounts of the world do not have fast enough internet so hard copies are still valuable. But now days I get almost everything online. The last copy of office, games through steam and so on. Comcast delivers movies on demand. TBH the main thing holding back the slaughter of blue ray is the fact Sony has its hands deep in the entertainment industry and companies try hard to make online providers offer lower quality even if they want to offer higher quality. There is no reason for all music to come in lossless format from online providers other than the record labels negotiations.
 
I think MS's biggest issue is that they do NOT want to pay Sony a single penny in licensing fees - that's why we won't see a Blu-Ray player for the 360.
 
So who needs blu-ray? ...Those who don't want to pay each time they want to watch a movie via streaming and might prefer to watch the same move a few times. Buy a blu-ray disc, watch it unlimited times(within reason due to disc wear and tear). Buy a stream of a movie in 1080p? Watch it ...unlimited times within 24 hours or once depending on how the streaming service is setup but never will it be watch it unlimited times whenver you want.
 
computerpro3 said:
I'm not saying it's an answer. I'm saying the technology, infrastructure, and model already exists for a large part of the US population that has decent internet connections.

Digital download of uncompressed (or barely compressed) Blu-Rays is already here. All of you guys bitching about how digital download can never be equivalent to the disc are just wrong - it's just 1's and 0's, guys. It's just being blocked by the asshats at the MPAA.
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What is a decent internet connection? Where I live I have 1.5Mb down at $30 per month and the most I can upgrade to is 6Mb down at $50 per month. Will that allow me to download and/or stream uncompressed full HD videos with the quality of a BR?

Of course that still doesn't matter much to me as I still use a DVD player on my 31" Mitsu CRT. It is all I can afford for now, and honestly if you look around outside of the office execs and union autoworkers most people don't make enough money to afford all the high end things mentioned in this thread so far. 55% of the US population make less than $50k per year, so until the people in that wage range can afford the equipment and internet connection for streaming, BR will definitely be around unless the studios want to lose a large chunk of their customers.
 
Physical Media in general is on the decline, as suggested by the fact that DVD is expected to be the last big seller of any imaginable format. I'm happy about it.
 
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