Microsoft Has iPhone Coffin Parade?

Microsoft was doing a lot of awesome shit until the Kin. I just kind of :confused: at that piece of shit.
 
^Have you ever held a zune HD? Best touch mp3/ pmp on the market period.
 
I've never really disliked WinMo. I have high hopes for this. Hey, Vista sucked but Seven rocked everyones world so maybe they can pull a stunt like that again. Everyone loves 7.

I'm a smartphone junkie of sorts..

BlackBerry 7130c > Samsung BlackJack > iPhone 8GB > Motorola Q9h > iPhone 3G 8GB > LG Incite > Samsung BlackJack II > iPhone 3GS 32GB > iPhone 3GS 8GB > BlackBerry Torch 9800, and that's just the SMARTPHONES I've had. I've never really disliked WinMo, it's just not as polished as other OS'.
 
InorganicMatter said:
Oh I remember the past all right. I remember my ViewSonic PPC 2002 device, my PPC 2003 from HP, and my WM 5 from Palm. All were complete trash.
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I only have fond memories of my iPaq devices....in some ways, even current devices don't match how usable they were- are there any new PPCs with color transreflective screens?
 
InorganicMatter said:
WP7 is going to suck as much as the rest did. Microsoft is a complete failure at designing device interfaces and delivering actual embedded operating systems instead of modified desktop systems. Good desktop OS maker, terrible mobile OS maker. Leave the mobile space to good companies like Apple and Google.
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Zune HD, customer satisfaction as high as the iPod. Sorry, WP7 is as slick as anything out there.
 
marshac said:
As slick as any other unreleased product you mean? :confused:
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Moot point, it's coming in a few weeks and all know what it looks like and there's nothing slicker that will be out by then.

It just funny seeing people deny the obvious.:D
 
heatlesssun said:
Moot point, it's coming in a few weeks and all know what it looks like and there's nothing slicker that will be out by then.

It just funny seeing people deny the obvious.:D
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Or the fan boys. Did you buy a kin as well? The bottom line is that MS has to roll a big rock uphill to overcome a decades worth of inferior mobile operating system history. I'm not saying it's impossible, i'm just saying it's improbable.

I'll keep an open mind of course- i've had WinMo phones years now (and PPC devices since the iPaq 3600), and it wasn't until this year that I finally had it- a call should end on the first press of the "end" button =P
 
marshac said:
Or the fan boys. Did you buy a kin as well? The bottom line is that MS has to roll a big rock uphill to overcome a decades worth of inferior mobile operating system history. I'm not saying it's impossible, i'm just saying it's improbable.

I'll keep an open mind of course- i've had WinMo phones years now (and PPC devices since the iPaq 3600), and it wasn't until this year that I finally had it- a call should end on the first press of the "end" button =P
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Never had any interest in Kin. And once again Zune HD, extremely customer high satisfaction, slick, a great music player. You cannot honestly look at that device and say it sucks, not with a straight face.

I can guarantee you that Google and Apple aren't taking Win 7 Phone as lightly as many of you.
 
heatlesssun said:
Never had any interest in Kin. And once again Zune HD, extremely customer high satisfaction, slick, a great music player. You cannot honestly look at that device and say it sucks, not with a straight face.

I can guarantee you that Google and Apple aren't taking Win 7 Phone as lightly as many of you.
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Dude, it can't multitask OR copy and paste. I do both of those at least 10 times a day.
 
computerpro3 said:
Dude, it can't multitask OR copy and paste. I do both of those at least 10 times a day.
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Not 3rd party multi-tasking but things like music playback in Zune work fine. The average user doesn't copy paste and it's not like these things won't improve just like the iPhone. Not sure how the Bing nav stuff will work but map app is fast and slick, there'll be great nav apps for W7P.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not 3rd party multi-tasking but things like music playback in Zune work fine. The average user doesn't copy paste and it's not like these things won't improve just like the iPhone. Not sure how the Bing nav stuff will work but map app is fast and slick, there'll be great nav apps for W7P.
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3rd party multitasking is critical. It's so nice listening to the NPR app in the background while using the GPS, for example.

Also, It's amazing watching you do a complete reversal. When the iphone was coming out and lacked copy and paste you were signing the praises of copying and pasting. Besides, the average user absolutely does it - otherwise Apple would never have caved to demand to put it in.

And comparing anything else out there with google navigation is hysterical. It's incredible - so far beyond even Garmin that it's just laughable. You've obviously never tried android.
 
computerpro3 said:
3rd party multitasking is critical. It's so nice listening to the NPR app in the background while using the GPS, for example.

Also, It's amazing watching you do a complete reversal. When the iphone was coming out and lacked copy and paste you were signing the praises of copying and pasting. Besides, the average user absolutely does it - otherwise Apple would never have caved to demand to put it in.

And comparing anything else out there with google navigation is hysterical. It's incredible - so far beyond even Garmin that it's just laughable. You've obviously never tried android.
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All I'm saying is that Apple would have never sold tens of millions of iPhones without multi-tasking or copy and paste or millions of iPads if these features were critical.

As for Google navigation ok you're the expert, it's better than sliced bread. I have voice turn by turn on my Touch Pro 2 and honestly it works perfectly for me so I've not really looked into the subject.
 
Screw the phone OS...need better pics of the blonde in the pink dress on the Thriller video. :)
 
heatlesssun said:
All I'm saying is that Apple would have never sold tens of millions of iPhones without multi-tasking or copy and paste or millions of iPads if these features were critical..
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Keep pretending that Microsoft has a cult of followers like Apple does.

People buy Apple products explicitly because they are apple products. The only reason any average person would buy a Microsoft product vs. an Apple product was if it was so incredibly superior to an Apple product that it was a no brainer.

In the case of Windows Phone 7, the average person's reasoning process will be as follows:

Brand: "Well, I like Apple better than Microsoft. Windows vista sucks."

Price: "Well, they are both the same price due to carrier subsidies."

Prestige: "Well, Microsoft isn't even in the same league as Apple here."

Design: "Well, even if the Microsoft one looks better, Apple designed the iphone so it must be better. Clearly Apple always designs things better!!!!!oneoneone"

Features: "Wait, Microsoft doesn't even have copy and paste? Or multitasking? But the iphone does?"

Decision: "Why the hell should I buy Phone 7 when the iphone is better designed, has more prestige, more features, and is the same price? And why the fuck does the text on the homescreen of Windows Phone 7 constantly get cut off???"

Now I know you will object to everything I said there, and that's fine. But what you have to realize is that whether you like it or not, that's the thought process that 99% of consumers will go through. And if consumers don't adopt it, developers won't.

Phone 7 is dead before it started.
 
computerpro3 said:
Phone 7 is dead before it started.
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This is just ridiculous, Zune and the games alone will sell a ton of these during the holidays. And if even 7 Phone fails which is unlikely there will be an 8 and then a 9 and so on.

Silly fan boy comments aside, Microsoft isn't going anywhere in the phone space. Either they will succeed or go bankrupt, there is no other possible outcome.
 
heatlesssun said:
This is just ridiculous, Zune and the games alone will sell a ton of these during the holidays. And if even 7 Phone fails which is unlikely there will be an 8 and then a 9 and so on.

Silly fan boy comments aside, Microsoft isn't going anywhere in the phone space. Either they will succeed or go bankrupt, there is no other possible outcome.
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Zune sales are but a trifle compared to ipod sales.

So again, explain to me exactly why an average person would ever choose a Windows 7 phone over an iphone or Android?
 
heatlesssun said:
Zune HD, customer satisfaction as high as the iPod. Sorry, WP7 is as slick as anything out there.
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lol wut? I'd like to see your source on that because a quick Google turned up nothing.

I'd argue satisfaction is a moot point anyways, as the Zune sales are such a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the iStuff, that one could easily say the only people buying a Zune are the ones like you who wanted one to begin with, and of course will be "satisfied" with it.

Everyone here knows you've invested your entire career in programming for the Windows platform, and are a huge shill for MS because your future depends on their success, but really you're exaggerating literally every single point here.

computerpro3 said:
Phone 7 is dead before it started.
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I don't think me and CP3 have ever agreed on anything (especially in the Soapbox :p), but there's always a first time. WP7 doesn't offer anything new - it's yet another touch device with a proprietary nickel-and-dime app marketplace. And it has as many (maybe more) flaws than the iPhone 1.0 had at launch. It's going to be a device bought by nerds who browse computer forums - your regular customers are all going to continue buying Apple, or Android if they can't get/don't want AT&T.
 
InorganicMatter said:
It's going to be a device bought by nerds who browse computer forums - your regular customers are all going to continue buying Apple, or Android if they can't get/don't want AT&T.
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Here's the thing though - even nerds won't buy it. There is no tweakability or extra functionality to unlock.
 
computerpro3 said:
Zune sales are but a trifle compared to ipod sales.

So again, explain to me exactly why an average person would ever choose a Windows 7 phone over an iphone or Android?
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Phones are disposable. At least initially people will buy W7 Phones simply because they are new and shiny from there who knows but calling the phone dead before it even launches is silly. But it looks like its media and gaming prowess will be as good or better than anything else out there and this phone is a bit simpler and cleaner than Android. Android is already suffering from versionitis and (cr)App disease.
 
heatlesssun said:
Phones are disposable. At least initially people will buy W7 Phones simply because they are new and shiny
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This is exactly the kind of thinking that sunk Microsoft in the first place, along with GM, etc.

Phones are not disposable. In fact, that is pretty much the polar opposite of what they are. Phones are status symbols. Phones are items that people lust over and save up for. Phones are an object that is with a person 24/7 nowadays. Phones are GPS navigation units. Phones are ways to track your bank account. Phones are lifestyle assistants. Phones are calendars. Phones are TOYS and people LOVE THEM.

And perhaps most of all, phones are not an impulse buy. Not when there's a 2 year contract attached.

Just as GM was complacent and kept producing what their own C level executives called "serviceable entries in the segment", Microsoft continues putting out "servicable" phone operating systems.

The million dollar question, which everyone else has figured out, is "Why the hell don't we produce a compelling entry into the segment?"

And the answer is that they have the same back asswards thinking that you do on the matter. If you think phones are disposable, you must be 45 years old with no kids and totally out of touch with modern culture.
 
computerpro3 said:
Phones are not disposable. In fact, that is pretty much the polar opposite of what they are. Phones are status symbols. Phones are items that people lust over and save up for. Phones are an object that is with a person 24/7 nowadays. Phones are GPS navigation units. Phones are ways to track your bank account. Phones are lifestyle assistants. Phones are calendars. Phones are TOYS and people LOVE THEM.
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They're disposible because there's always a newer and better one. Hard for a year old phone to be a status symbol or something to lust over. ;)
 
heatlesssun said:
They're disposible because there's always a newer and better one. Hard for a year old phone to be a status symbol or something to lust over. ;)
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Seriously?

So I guess a Ferrari or a triple BFG 90000+++ octuplet GTX 480 on one PCB isn't a status symbol either?

You realize how ridiculous your statement is, right? It could be said about literally 95% of material objects on earth - which means that unless you believe status symbols are restricted to heirloom jewelery and such, your logic doesn't even remotely work.
 
computerpro3 said:
Seriously?

So I guess a Ferrari or a triple BFG 90000+++ octuplet GTX 480 on one PCB isn't a status symbol either?

You realize how ridiculous your statement is, right? It could be said about literally 95% of material objects on earth - which means that unless you believe status symbols are restricted to heirloom jewelery and such, your logic doesn't even remotely work.
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You said it yourself that they are status symbols right? Year old phones AREN'T status symbols, they're obsolete and you need a NEW status symbol. This is your logic, not mine. Plus they only cost $200 with a phone contract. Ferraris are a bit more.;)
 
heatlesssun said:
You said it yourself that they are status symbols right? Year old phones AREN'T status symbols, they're obsolete and you need a NEW status symbol. This is your logic, not mine. Plus they only cost $200 with a phone contract. Ferraris are a bit more.;)
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You are either purposely ignoring or simply not comprehending anything I'm saying.

Here, allow me to help:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cellular+phones+status+symbol
 
computerpro3 said:
You are either purposely ignoring or simply not comprehending anything I'm saying.

Here, allow me to help:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cellular+phones+status+symbol
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No I understand perfectly what you're saying, you simply are side stepping you're own point. Sure phones are status symbols, for about a month until there's something better. It's a status symbol with a VERY short life span, that's why they are disposable.

Why you want to argue against your OWN point is strange.:confused:
 
heatlesssun said:
No I understand perfectly what you're saying, you simply are side stepping you're own point. Sure phones are status symbols, for about a month until there's something better. It's a status symbol with a VERY short life span, that's why they are disposable.

Why you want to argue against your OWN point is strange.:confused:
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This is amazing. Who the fuck cares how long it is a status symbol for - money doesn't change hands after six months. Money changes hands up front, and the fact is that when people go to buy a phone, they don't look at it as a disposable purchase.

In an age where people can't even stay on topic and following reasoning that involves more than two steps (classic example right here), signing a 1-2 year contract is an eternity.

Apple has people fucking camping out for days to get iphones. I don't see anyone camping out for a frigging disposable Kodak camera.
 
And speaking of sidestepping, I invite you yet again to respond to my previous post:

Brand: "Well, I like Apple better than Microsoft. Windows vista sucks."

Price: "Well, they are both the same price due to carrier subsidies."

Prestige: "Well, Microsoft isn't even in the same league as Apple here."

Design: "Well, even if the Microsoft one looks better, Apple designed the iphone so it must be better. Clearly Apple always designs things better!!!!!oneoneone"

Features: "Wait, Microsoft doesn't even have copy and paste? Or multitasking? But the iphone does?"

Decision: "Why the hell should I buy Phone 7 when the iphone is better designed, has more prestige, more features, and is the same price? And why the fuck does the text on the homescreen of Windows Phone 7 constantly get cut off???"
Click to expand...

You might as well just admit what everyone already knows and move on. It will save you time and frustration in the long run.
 
Actually, you do have one point - phones running on a Microsoft OS are disposable. After all, it's not like you can actually make a phone call on them without rebooting, a hard lock, or having the phone automatically redial the person after pressing "end" fifty times. Throw in a landscape rotation bug and a few runs of "cleanRam" and you have a typical phone call experience on my Touch Pro 2 running the latest MightRom.
 
And to complete my quadruple post, here's a post I made at PPC Geeks when I first switched over:

me said:
Look, I've been one of the biggest WinMo advocates on earth for the last decade. I've bought everything from my Q, Ozone, TP1, TP2, etc all on release day with overnight shipping. Then, I made the mistake of loading the Android port onto my TP2 and realized something amazing - the hacked version of Android was a more usable and functional experience than my MightyRom'd TP2!

It was faster, HANDS DOWN. As in not even close. It responds instantly, even without 3d acceleration enabled. Believe it or not, the back button actually is instant! When I hit the "end key", calls ended instantly - not 10 seconds later. When I accidentally dialed someone and then tried to hit the end key quickly so as not to bother them, the call didn't keep ringing anyway and finally hang up 10 seconds later, followed by a hard lock of the phone. Amazingly, it actually hung up the phone instantly! When I flip open the keyboard, the screen instantly rotates - it doesn't half rotate, garble the image on the screen, have the soft keyboard pop up blocking the screen, and then bring up a menu when I try to close the soft keyboard (followed by a soft lock requiring a 4 minute CleanRam level 3 procedure). I can send a text and instantly close the keyboard, as opposed to waiting 5 seconds, without the phone hard locking!


All this on a HACKED version of Android!

Many of you bitch about the "tweaking aspect" of Windows Mobile. I've got news for you - the only reason we tweaked it is because quite frankly, in stock form it blows. Artists like MightyMike have made the device leaps and bounds better than they are, but the crux of the matter is that if Windows Mobile was any good to begin with they wouldn't need to do anything.

How illogical are these things which require regedits to fix?

1. There is no dedicated button to return to the home tab at any time.
2. There is no way to get to your contacts from the home screen with one press of the button
3. There is no way to separate video from pictures in HTC Album
4. The photo album and video player don't recognize subfolders
5. There is no "ignore folder" or "add a folder" functions of the video player - you have to regedit to prevent it from pulling pictures from fucking Program Files!
6. There is no way to rearrange start menu icons in one click. Is click and drag such a difficult concept to grasp microsoft? Instead, you have to have either a separate freaking app, or do it via file manager and registry hacks.

I could go on all day. You might have fun applying registry tweaks and that's great (I do too, to a certain extent), but a tweak is supposed to be just that - something minor that improves your experience with the device. What Mightyrom and other chefs have had to do is to FIX a FUNDAMENTALLY BROKEN system, and that's a completely different situation.

To those of you claiming no activesync support, that's simply not true. My Incredible has full exchange support including remote administrative procedures and security. HTC Sync enables full outlook integration as well.

Here's the bottom line - Android not only "just works", but it works to the point where it has more functionality and capability than Windows Mobile. And this will only increase as developers jump ship. Don't believe me? There's not even a decent frigging Bank of America app for windows mobile! The facebook app SUCKS compared to Android's! These are basic apps!

The beauty of android is that power users get 99% of the control that windows mobile users do via root - it's quite literally linux, so the possibilities are endless. And I don't know where the idea that you "don't get file system access" - I sure as hell can (Astro file manager is even superior to Rescoe Explorer). Hell, they're even working on aircrackng for it!

Windows mobile was great because it offered features that other operating system's didn't have. We put up with the quirks because of this.

Now that Android offers all of the functionality of windows mobile, PLUS it ACTUALLY WORKS AS A COMMUNICATION DEVICE, we don't have to choose anymore! We get the best of both worlds.

At first I resisted Android because of my deep seeded loyalty to WinMo and my aversion to anything that's not - primarily apple. I'd also heard many of the myths that some of the same people in this thread are perpetuating. Then, I realized something - I loved windows mobile because it was the Anti-Apple - totally open, could customize, install any apps, etc. IT was like a computer in my pocket. My realization was this though - Android is no different! In many ways, it's the "new" windows mobile, with the only difference being that it actually works, so it's gaining popularity. The only remaining argument against android is if you want to use windows mobile just to "be different". To that I respond, be my guest - you can drive your old geo metro all day long. Not many of those left on the road, after all. Me? I'll take the BMW every time.

Really, Android is a no brainer.
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computerpro3 said:
Actually, you do have one point - phones running on a Microsoft OS are disposable. After all, it's not like you can actually make a phone call on them without rebooting, a hard lock, or having the phone automatically redial the person after pressing "end" fifty times. Throw in a landscape rotation bug and a few runs of "cleanRam" and you have a typical phone call experience on my Touch Pro 2 running the latest MightRom.
Click to expand...

I have the Touch Pro 2 using the stock 6.1 ROM using Sbp Shell, doesn't do any of this.

Just make shit up, argue aginst your own points, declare a product dead before it launches, you really are a fan boy LOL!!! :D
 
heatlesssun said:
I have the Touch Pro 2 using the stock 6.1 ROM using Sbp Shell, doesn't do any of this.

Just make shit up, argue aginst your own points, declare a product dead before it launches, you really are a fan boy LOL!!! :D
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You haven't been here very long have you? Before Android came out, CP3 was as big of an MS shill as you are. It's funny because back when we went the rounds on iPhone versus WinMo, I brought up every flaw he just mentioned, and he did the exact same thing you just did - tried to brush it off with a completely subjective "Well I don't have those problems, so you must be making stuff up!" I guess that mus be the modus operandi for WinMo fans before they get introduced to a real platform. :p

By the way, if your only source on the customer satisfaction point is Amazon reviews - not only is that a very poor source, but it also pretty poorly in your favor, seeing as how the Amazon sales numbers only reinforce my point about the Zune sales being a drop in the bucket.
 
InorganicMatter said:
You haven't been here very long have you? Before Android came out, CP3 was as big of an MS shill as you are. It's funny because back when we went the rounds on iPhone versus WinMo, I brought up every flaw he just mentioned, and he did the exact same thing you just did - tried to brush it off with a completely subjective "Well I don't have those problems, so you must be making stuff up!" I guess that mus be the modus operandi for WinMo fans before they get introduced to a real platform. :p

By the way, if your only source on the customer satisfaction point is Amazon reviews - not only is that a very poor source, but it also pretty poorly in your favor, seeing as how the Amazon sales numbers only reinforce my point about the Zune sales being a drop in the bucket.
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Exactly. But I do wish to make one differentiation between my argument and heatless sun - at the time, there were very real functionality differences between an iphone and windows mobile phones. I really did get more functionality for putting up with all of the crap that comes along with it.

Now, that's not the case. And with Android, I get the best of both worlds. After a while though, I just couldn't handle the bugs and unreliability that came along with the MS platform.
 
I guess that's the difference between me and most of the supernerds here. I hate putting up with "the crap that comes with it," and will gladly sacrifice functionality to save myself some sanity. :p
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
InorganicMatter said:
You haven't been here very long have you? Before Android came out, CP3 was as big of an MS shill as you are. It's funny because back when we went the rounds on iPhone versus WinMo, I brought up every flaw he just mentioned, and he did the exact same thing you just did - tried to brush it off with a completely subjective "Well I don't have those problems, so you must be making stuff up!" I guess that mus be the modus operandi for WinMo fans before they get introduced to a real platform. :p

By the way, if your only source on the customer satisfaction point is Amazon reviews - not only is that a very poor source, but it also pretty poorly in your favor, seeing as how the Amazon sales numbers only reinforce my point about the Zune sales being a drop in the bucket.
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Shill? LOL!:D I'm not the one calling a product DOA before launch, heck as much as I'm not an Apple fan I said the iPad would do well before launch.

And who is trying to brush anything off? All I said is that I had the phone and didn't have those problems and there other people with the same phone in this forum that have said the same thing.

And all you have to do look around, people like the Zune HD, just look at the threads on it hear.

Anything negative about an MS product is cool, anything positive and I'm a shill. Right.;)
 
computerpro3 said:
Exactly. But I do wish to make one differentiation between my argument and heatless sun - at the time, there were very real functionality differences between an iphone and windows mobile phones. I really did get more functionality for putting up with all of the crap that comes along with it.

Now, that's not the case. And with Android, I get the best of both worlds. After a while though, I just couldn't handle the bugs and unreliability that came along with the MS platform.
Click to expand...

And hey if it did work for you then it didn't work for you and you got a Droid. Awesome, glad you had the choice. For whatever reason you are now arguing against choice. :confused:
 
computerpro3 said:
People buy Apple products explicitly because they are apple products. The only reason any average person would buy a Microsoft product vs. an Apple product was if it was so incredibly superior to an Apple product that it was a no brainer.
Click to expand...

Not trying to dig too deep, but one simple question on this one:

What about those of us that will never buy an Apple explicitly because it is an Apple product? I'm on Verizon, so even if they released the iPhone on their network my current smart phone choices are:

iPhone - I will stick to my ancient flip phone I have as a backup over anything Jobs puts out.
Android - like it a lot. The Droid 2 is definitely on my list of potential new phones.
Blackberry - just no. Phones are too big and bulky for my tastes.

So really, I don't have a choice in the smart phone market right now. I have Android phones and crap piled with crap. If WP7 is as good as MS is billing it as, and it has a decent market offering, I see it as the only competition to Android for my next purchase (assuming I even get a smart phone - some of us still use our phones for communication only).

So yes, there is a very real market for the WP7 phones. People like me and almost everyone I associate will fall into this category.
 
Jeremy C said:
Not trying to dig too deep, but one simple question on this one:

What about those of us that will never buy an Apple explicitly because it is an Apple product? I'm on Verizon, so even if they released the iPhone on their network my current smart phone choices are:

iPhone - I will stick to my ancient flip phone I have as a backup over anything Jobs puts out.
Android - like it a lot. The Droid 2 is definitely on my list of potential new phones.
Blackberry - just no. Phones are too big and bulky for my tastes.

So really, I don't have a choice in the smart phone market right now. I have Android phones and crap piled with crap. If WP7 is as good as MS is billing it as, and it has a decent market offering, I see it as the only competition to Android for my next purchase (assuming I even get a smart phone - some of us still use our phones for communication only).

So yes, there is a very real market for the WP7 phones. People like me and almost everyone I associate will fall into this category.
Click to expand...


So like, four people in America?
 
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