PC versus Mac

[phide]

There's nothing bizarre about it. And turning it around and giving Apple the majority wouldn't fit the premise of my statement because then they'd never have a need for help from another OS - 750 million computers or more would have OSX on 'em... which automagically works with iPods/iPhones/iPads... see how silly trying to turn it around is?

The premise of your statement was based on "if it weren't for Windows". "If it weren't for Windows", what would the marketplace look like? "If it weren't for Windows", we'd still have a dizzying number of computers in peoples' homes. Yet they wouldn't run Windows — they'd be running something else. That's the point.

Whether you had intended to or not, you attribute the iPod's great success to the existence of Windows. You say that, if it weren't specifically for Windows, Apple wouldn't have done as well. I attribute the iPod's success to being A) a really good product and B) the existence of home computers with which the iPod can interface. Apple developed iTunes for Windows because it happens to be the most widely-used OS. If another OS happened to be the most widely-used OS, Apple would have developed iTunes for it. Apple simply did what was logical.

Only with [strike=1]Windows-based[/s] personal computers adding bazillions of potential owners could Apple have gotten to where it is today...

Again, "if it weren't for Windows".

Adding support to Windows for iPods is what really opened the floodgates and brought them a shitload of additional cash flow they never would have seen or had access to if they're simply stuck to their closed-minded platform.

I don't disagree with this. I simply disagree with the manner in which you attributed Apple's success with the iPod to Windows.

It's funny, though, that you use the term "closed-minded" when discussing Apple and the iPod. Which of Apple's competitor's largely unpopular digital audio players are locked to only one OS?

 

[heatlesssun]

take a look at stupid mac users discussing it: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=989735

Jesus christ, you'd think that mac users owe their lives to apple/mac/steve jobs. It's pretty pathetic.

Some of this stuff is almost reasonable. I love the "Windows is dying" argument however. If Windows 7 sales are what a dying Windows looks like I'm sure Microsoft would be willing to pull the trigger themselves.

This "Macs are hip" though it just BS. I get a whole lot more people looking at awe at my Windows devices than any Macs, I all Mac stuff is the same, how the hell is that hip? Well I guess looking like a buncj of clones is hip to some.

I can't wait to take out my Libretto W100 in front of a MBP totin' iPader and show them what TRUE cool and hip is all about!

 

[zero2dash]

I especially like this one:

1) Mac can run both OS X AND Windows.... PCs don't

That's right, I forget. Macs aren't personal computers, they're objects that preppies buy to impress other people because they own them and they want to fit in at Starbucks.

....and any Dell, Vaio, Gateway, HP, Compaq, or beige box put together hunk of crap can run OS X. It may not be legal, but that's not the point.

 

[zero2dash]

It is actually pretty damn funny though seeing all the Mac fanboys all riled up.

Available in your favorite color.

Macs only come in white or silver. PCs are available in a full spectrum of colors across a range of price points.

Not so hilarious now that the shoe's on the other foot now, is it guys?

 

[Omerta]

Look at this mac fanboy in that thread.

Just had to comment.
In their arrogance Microsoft have shot themselves in the foot, maybe all the viruses out there have given them rabies.

Since they discontinued their Internet Explorer browser for Mac, Firefox, Chrome, Opera and Safari have eaten a big chunk out of the percentage of users who now use IE. Most developers know that writing the extra code for IE is a pain, because the people at Microsoft don't seem to want to conform because they are so full of themselves. Not offering IE for Mac users has isolated them from the majority of Mac users.

That ASP.net has only available in Windows for so long means that Microsoft have lost a lot of developers who now use both Window and Mac friendly software.

Everyone knows that Windows is just a cheap rip off of the Apple OS.

The fact that you can easily install Windows on a Mac should you need it giving you the best of both worlds

Now that the real gaming platform has finally arrived at Mac means users can now enjoy the best new games on OS X.

Since people are now enjoying their iPods and iPhones they now want to enjoy Apple machines as well.

The only argument to buy a PC for me anyway is that they are cheap.

You get what you pay for.

Reading between the lines it would appear Microsoft are desperate.

ROFL

 

[Azhar]

Look at this mac fanboy in that thread.



ROFL

There's some equally retarded PC users. Just saying.

 

[WasntMe]

wha..

Did you close your ears and eyes when you saw the Apple vs PC commercials? Did you ignore the fact that Microsoft software works on Apple computers anyways?

sigh... you misread my post entirely (and I quoted someone else which you seemed to miss).

I'm staying out of this thread for now. Apple people will be Apple people and PC people will be smart. Not much more to argue about.

 

[heatlesssun]

There's some equally retarded PC users. Just saying.

Yeah but when a Mac user starts to comment on things like ASP.NET nothing correct will be what comes out of that. ASP.NET is actually cross platform in the form on Mono plus why would Microsoft give a rats ass about OS X servers? Can you blame them? Apple doesn't care about OS X servers themselves. Silverlight on the other had, a client .NET technology is supported directly by Microsoft on OS X.

 

[TheWeazmeister]

Personally, I think Microsoft needs to go back to their ads that highlight the cost / performance difference between Microsoft and Apple products. That hits home with the average Joe, not this.

Heck most people who ask me Mac vs PC questions still believe that Apples have some magical components that PCs don't. The idea that you can get the same build for less money on a W7 machine just doesn't jive with them. Shows the power of "proper" marketing by Apple.

 

[Azhar]

Yeah but when a Mac user starts to comment on things like ASP.NET nothing correct will be what comes out of that. ASP.NET is actually cross platform in the form on Mono plus why would Microsoft give a rats ass about OS X servers? Can you blame them? Apple doesn't care about OS X servers themselves. Silverlight on the other had, a client .NET technology is supported directly by Microsoft on OS X.

I'm not referring to specifics. You do remember TechieSooner, right?

 

[Azhar]

sigh... you misread my post entirely (and I quoted someone else which you seemed to miss).

I'm staying out of this thread for now. Apple people will be Apple people and PC people will be smart. Not much more to argue about.

See sig. Not an Mac nor OSX user. I just have a more open mind than most of you guys.

 

[TheWeazmeister]

It is actually pretty damn funny though seeing all the Mac fanboys all riled up.



Not so hilarious now that the shoe's on the other foot now, is it guys?

LMFAO! That's just hilarious. Makes you wonder who thought that uniformity and brand loyalty to the extent of fanaticism would be an "expression" of ones uniqueness.

 

[FoxhoundOp]

Some of you are really just as bad as the Apple fanboys that you consider stupid.

 

[MattyC]

I get a whole lot more people looking at awe at my Windows devices than any Macs, I all Mac stuff is the same, how the hell is that hip? Well I guess looking like a buncj of clones is hip to some.

I can't wait to take out my Libretto W100 in front of a MBP totin' iPader and show them what TRUE cool and hip is all about!

That hideous little Toshiba thing? I guess I don't get it because I don't have an iPad, but I would just think you wasted money.


Also I love the irony of the "Yeah people just buy Macs to think they are cool and trendy, but if they were REALLY cool and trendy they would buy a PC like me. We are so cool guys! /circlejerk" stuff that goes on in Apple threads. I think I would have to start a campaign to save Apple if they were going under. Not for any of their products, but just to keep the free entertainment that is anti-Apple elitism alive.


In reality most people don't care what you have. I have a MBP. I got it because I liked it. I still like it. I use it and I don't really ever care what someone else has or is using. I am not sure if the person you imagine who looks at your gear and goes "OMG HE IS SO SRSLY KOOL AND BETTTER THAN STUPID MAC PEOPLE!" exists Windows and OS X are operating systems, not religions (at least to rational people) .

 

[phide]

I'm not referring to specifics. You do remember TechieSooner, right?

Careful. He might have already returned.

 

[zero2dash]

See sig. Not an Mac nor OSX user. I just have a more open mind than most of you guys.

I work on a Mac at work. (G5 specifically running Tiger)
I also defend Macs where it's merited (see previous post regarding gaming/Steam)

However I also passionately hate when Mac fanboys pull the bias BS, old hat news that was relevant 10 years ago and act like it's still relevant now. Viruses? Crashes? Really? It's pathetic. That's all they have to go on, still, so that's what they go with. It shows pure ignorance, because if they've clearly used any Windows machine recently, they'd realize that those are not concerns anymore under normal conditions.

It's also hilarious that Mac users out there actually think that Macs are completely 100% immune to viruses. Somebody better tell Norton to stop wasting their time coding a Mac antivirus solution then, because it's completely not necessary!

That's the point I'm trying to make with my posts; not trying to speak for anyone else.

 

[ninjaturtle]

I would rather see more Apple vs PC TV ads, and other phone makers do what Apple did in their TV ads.

 

[Azhar]

Careful. He might have already returned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwdKOyqJwGY

 

[heatlesssun]

That hideous little Toshiba thing? I guess I don't get it because I don't have an iPad, but I would just think you wasted money.

Wasted my money perhaps, but hideous, LOL! A full function Windows 7 laptop with almost twice the screen resoultion of an iPad, the best touch screen keyboard in the mobile space right now, and it weighs as much as an iPad, Only 4 hours of battery life with the big battery (with the 2 hour battery its actually a lttle lighter than an iPad 3G) but it's also driving two damn screens. If for nothing else its the most unique piece of mobile hardware to come out in a LONG time, including the iPad.

Hip and cool the W100 has in spades, there's simply nothing else like it right now or for the near future, my guess is that a LOT of people have their eye on this device because if it becomes a cult hit, which at its price that's ALL it'll ever be and being a limited run as well, I guatrantee you that you'll see copy cats.

 

[heatlesssun]

Apple developed iTunes for Windows because it happens to be the most widely-used OS. If another OS happened to be the most widely-used OS, Apple would have developed iTunes for it. Apple simply did what was logical.


Again, "if it weren't for Windows".


I don't disagree with this. I simply disagree with the manner in which you attributed Apple's success with the iPod to Windows.

It's funny, though, that you use the term "closed-minded" when discussing Apple and the iPod. Which of Apple's competitor's largely unpopular digital audio players are locked to only one OS?

You're referring to the Zune obviously which while not a big seller has a VERY high customer satisfaction and don't you have one? In fact you are about the ONLY person on this forum that has one that is generally negative about the device that I can think of.

At any rate Microsoft just didn't bother with the Mac platform because they weren't going to sell Zunes to Mac heads, honestly, even Microsoft understood that.

Mac people really need to stay clear of the popularity argument, its simply doesn't work for you. Who gives a rats ass how popular stuff is if it does what they want?

 

[Greg-O]

Man if I didn't want to get flames so BADLY on the Mac Site posted on here I would start disproving all of there arguments points in one huge super long post.

Now I really don't care about Apple Computers that much (i do use Iphone but looking to get something different in near future), but to me there is not much appeal to a Mac except maybe programming an app for iphone, ipod, or ipad, but I don't want to send what I paid for my nice i7 system in my sig for an Atom based mac mini.

 

[MattyC]

Wasted my money perhaps, but hideous, LOL! A full function Windows 7 laptop with almost twice the screen resoultion of an iPad, the best touch screen keyboard in the mobile space right now, and it weighs as much as an iPad, Only 4 hours of battery life with the big battery (with the 2 hour battery its actually a lttle lighter than an iPad 3G) but it's also driving two damn screens. If for nothing else its the most unique piece of mobile hardware to come out in a LONG time, including the iPad.

Hip and cool the W100 has in spades, there's simply nothing else like it right now or for the near future, my guess is that a LOT of people have their eye on this device because if it becomes a cult hit, which at its price that's ALL it'll ever be and being a limited run as well, I guatrantee you that you'll see copy cats.

But that is the great thing about it. You can buy that ugly little thing that I would have no use for and enjoy it. And I can buy my overpriced hipster MacBook Pro that you would have no use for and enjoy it. Different things for different people

 

[phide]

You're referring to the Zune obviously which while not a big seller has a VERY high customer satisfaction and don't you have one? In fact you are about the ONLY person on this forum that has one that is generally negative about the device that I can think of.

I'm critical of it because it appears to receive praise to an excessive degree, though my experience with it has been generally positive. It's certainly not a bad product by any stretch and I'm sure it's very easy to look over its shortcomings with Zune Pass. In any case, it's the only DAP I know of that requires Windows to sync, so it serves as quite a dramatically effective counterpoint to any claim that Apple is "closed-minded" for producing DAPs that function with multiple platforms. Agree/disagree?

At any rate Microsoft just didn't bother with the Mac platform because they weren't going to sell Zunes to Mac heads, honestly, even Microsoft understood that.

I do kind of wish they'd release a Mac version of Zune, however. These days, I generally only boot/wake my PC to play a game, encode video and to sync the Zune. An OS X client would be quite welcome.

Who gives a rats ass how popular stuff is if it does what they want?

I don't. I knew it was unpopular when I bought it, but that didn't stop me from buying it. Still, it could be a better product if it had been more successful due to its support for third-party applications. But that's for another topic.

...I don't want to send what I paid for my nice i7 system in my sig for an Atom based mac mini.

The mini uses a Core 2 chip, not an Atom. I believe Apple pulled support for Atom chips in 10.6.3 (to thwart netbook users from installing it on those systems), though I might be mistaken.

 

[WAKASHIZuMa]

The worst kind of Mac fanboys are those who try to sugar coat their fanboyism and ignorance by saying they "use" Windows and other Microsoft products too as if somehow that gives their biased opinion more credit. That's a nice new trick to deliver your anti-PC rant while trying to look objective

Once a mac fanboy always a mac fanboy. It's funny how mac guys are upset over somebody attacking their platform (something they do constantly)

And it's good that Microsoft is fighting back by using skewed ads. In this day and age one has to be compeltely stupid to try to be ethical and win against the competition. Being ethical and fair is an excuse for the weak to justify their inability to win. Natural Selection favors the strong which means attacking and insulting your competition at all costs

It's good that Microsoft stopped being a pussy. It provides more entertainment

 

[WAKASHIZuMa]

And I have to add that as the resident undercover Mac fanboy and evangelist for Apple, Phide is one of the more civil hipster mac fanboys. Although it might be because he is in a PC oriented forum

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm critical of it because it appears to receive praise to an excessive degree, though my experience with it has been generally positive.

Fair enough, this is the way a lot of Windows folks look at Macs. However when coupled with Zune Pass as you noted, well its simply in a class by itself for cost-effective and legal music consumption.

I don't. I knew it was unpopular when I bought it, but that didn't stop me from buying it. Still, it could be a better product if it had been more successful due to its support for third-party applications. But that's for another topic.

You keep saying the Zune HD isn't popular, well other than than the iPod is there ANY music player that would be popular by your definition? .

 

[krotch]

You keep saying the Zune HD isn't popular, well other than than the iPod is there ANY music player that would be popular by your definition? .

I think it all depends on your area/region/country/etc. Korea, don't see many iPods roaming around. The Zune can't possibly be as popular as the iPod, when it's available in only a single country.

 

[Azhar]

And I have to add that as the resident undercover Mac fanboy and evangelist for Apple, Phide is one of the more civil hipster mac fanboys. Although it might be because he is in a PC oriented forum

Can't be any worse than PC users who never touch Apple products and act like they're the resident professionals and talk bad things about them because someone else says so. Right?

People who rides on both side of the fence are the ones with experience in both fields. I don't suppose that's occurred to you?

 

[Omerta]

I've owned both platforms for quite a while. They both have their ups and downs. Personally, if I wasn't a hardware enthusiast and if I did not like doing things myself, I'd probably own a 27" i7 iMac right now, but since i'm a DIY kind of guy when it comes to tech, I prefer using windows just because of the all the hardware. Windows 7 has also pretty much closed the gap on OSX.

I just can't stand mac fanboys who think macs are the best without knowing a thing about technology yet at the same time thinking they are very technologically savvy because they own a mac.

 

[El Barto]

Wow, this is almost as controversial as android vs. iphone. lots of bickering will ensue opinions will be thrown about. in the end, almost nobody's mind will change and everyone's time will be wasted. buy what you want.

 

[krotch]

Wow, this is almost as controversial as android vs. iphone. lots of bickering will ensue opinions will be thrown about. in the end, almost nobody's mind will change and everyone's time will be wasted. buy what you want.

But it's a great way to waste time at work...you know. While not working.

 

[Bahamut]

Wow, this is almost as controversial as android vs. iphone. lots of bickering will ensue opinions will be thrown about. in the end, almost nobody's mind will change and everyone's time will be wasted. buy what you want.

This "PC vs Mac" thing is the oldest known discussion/controversy there is in computer culture, so if it's been around for over 26 solid years now, believe me, it's not going to abate anytime soon. It should just be referred to as "The Great Divide" and be done with it, I think.

 

[WAKASHIZuMa]

Can't be any worse than PC users who never touch Apple products and act like they're the resident professionals and talk bad things about them because someone else says so. Right?

People who rides on both side of the fence are the ones with experience in both fields. I don't suppose that's occurred to you?

Yes its worse and no you are not correct

People who actually use both dont sound like fanboys that try the same old arguments against PCs that have been defunct since Windows XP. Someone who keeps up to date with both platforms dont usually sound like bunch of hipsters

Evangelists like phide (or a junior evangelist like yourself) are however too obvious by now to try to hide their crush on all things Apple

 

[heatlesssun]

But that is the great thing about it. You can buy that ugly little thing that I would have no use for and enjoy it. And I can buy my overpriced hipster MacBook Pro that you would have no use for and enjoy it. Different things for different people

I'm as big an advocate of choice that you'll find. I like what I like, others like what they do.

Something tells me though if the Libretto W100 had a certain glowing half-eaten piece of fruit on it you'd think it was the most beautiful thing you had ever seen.

At any rate this goes to the core (no pun intended) of the difference between most PC and Mac users. You look at an engineering marvel like the W100 and say it's ugly, I look at it and wonder how it can serve a need.

 

[WAKASHIZuMa]

This "PC vs Mac" thing is the oldest known discussion/controversy there is in computer culture, so if it's been around for over 26 solid years now, believe me, it's not going to abate anytime soon. It should just be referred to as "The Great Divide" and be done with it, I think.

It's the "cold war" of technology and Apple does definitely represent the Soviets with their restrictions and propaganda. No wonder socialts, liberals and hipsters love Apple so much

 

[WAKASHIZuMa]

I'm as big an advocate of choice that you'll find. I like what I like, others like what they do.

Something tells me though if the Libretto W100 had a certain glowing half-eaten piece of fruit on it you'd think it was the most beautiful thing you had ever seen.

At any rate this goes to the core (no pun intended) of the difference between most PC and Mac users. You look at an engineering marvel like the W100 and say it's ugly, I look at it and wonder how it can serve a need.

Funny thing is you'd never hear a PC user trying to convert anyone (those 4% mac users of the world) to their platform. They simply dont care

One quick visit to pro Apple places (or even so called publications) and it's filled with Apple users trying to "convert" the family to the world of Apple

Choice is a weird and prohibited word for a mac user. Apple thinks what's right and users follow. It's magical

 

[MattyC]

Something tells me though if the Libretto W100 had a certain glowing half-eaten piece of fruit on it you'd think it was the most beautiful thing you had ever seen.

http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/libretto/W100 Eh, I dunno. It just looks gaudy to me. Particularly the center logo bit between the two screens. From an engineering standpoint it does seem really cool, but I just wouldn't have a use for something like that so that kind of kills it for me.


You could change that logo to an Apple and I would still feel the same way Then again I am picky and a bit random when it comes to designs I like. I actually hope Apple redesigns the MacBook Pros again before it is time for me to upgrade. I love my all silver one. I wish I could get one like this but in the unibody and (obviously) with new goodies I just don't like the black border around the screen or the black keyboard. All silver was much better imo.


That isn't to say that I wouldn't buy something ugly, I just prefer the prettier option if it exists. The original Nintendo DS was a crime against design if you ask me. I still got one and loved it

 

[heatlesssun]

This "PC vs Mac" thing is the oldest known discussion/controversy there is in computer culture, so if it's been around for over 26 solid years now, believe me, it's not going to abate anytime soon. It should just be referred to as "The Great Divide" and be done with it, I think.

Not for me. I'm, the biggest Windows fan you'll find, I own ZERO Apple products because they don't make me any money and honestly I just like the debate for the sake of the debate. If Apple products put money in my pocket I'd use them.

Really at the end of the day, a PC and a Mac do the very much the same things the same way! How much of of divide can there really be? However Windows powered PCs in addition to making money me are simply more functional and cost-effective for the level of funcntionality they provide, I think the market place determined than many, many, many years ago and thus the big difference in PC vs Mac sales. PCs may not look as nice or have resale value but you can go and buy a $400 laptop that's plenty of computer for most people. There's no such thing as a $400 MBP.

And then there's the high-end in the PC that's make Macs look like cheap pieces of shit. There's no such thing as a $5000 gaming rig in the Mac world. You can simply stuff a PC so full of tech that it can be far more expensive than any Mac, even a Mac Pro.

 

[krotch]

At any rate this goes to the core (no pun intended) of the difference between most PC and Mac users. You look at an engineering marvel like the W100 and say it's ugly, I look at it and wonder how it can serve a need.

Man, that W100 looks awesome as shit. Wonder what the rest of the specs is, cause it could definitely replace my HP TM2T tablet, if it has decent power and long battery life. Cost would be key though. Anywhere near $1000, is a no no. It's too limited, due to screen size and lack of physical keyboard.

 

[phide]

And I have to add that as the resident undercover Mac fanboy and evangelist for Apple, Phide is one of the more civil hipster mac fanboys. Although it might be because he is in a PC oriented forum

"Hipster Mac fanboy". I like it. It's catchy. Maybe I'll get it engraved on my Zune.

You keep saying the Zune HD isn't popular, well other than than the iPod is there ANY music player that would be popular by your definition? .

I actually see Creative's players fairly often. I don't know what market share their players occupy though and have no idea whether they're as popular/less popular/more popular than the Zune.

Funny thing is you'd never hear a PC user trying to convert anyone (those 4% mac users of the world) to their platform. They simply dont care

I don't think you can even grasp how ironic it is that you'd say this in response to the person you've quoted. The irony here is dripping.

I own ZERO Apple products because they don't make me any money and honestly I just like the debate for the sake of the debate. If Apple products put money in my pocket I'd use them.

How would you propose to make money on Apple products if you don't own any? You'd have just as difficult a time making money with Windows if all you used was Linux, don't you think?

Either you'd be reselling them or you'd be developing for them. Both would require first owning them. Or is there an alternative I've not considered?