Cheapest GPU I can get for 1080p

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dorky82

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 11, 2009
Messages
334
What is the cheapest and low powering GPU I can get for HTPC?
I just got E3300 and mobo for $30 at Frys. Already have harddrive and case just need GPU.
Will onboard 4500 play 720p+1080P files?
I want to have hdmi but if onboard GPU is powerful enough to play my files I'll have to use DVI/VGA + audio cable.
 
Anything but an ATI. I have a 3200 and a 5850. And while they can play standardized h264, they aren't exactly batting a 1.0. The 5850 can play more videos after the recent driver updates (One update actually broke 1080p and i had to hunt down an older one), but still isn't perfect. I still have to occasionally switch to software mode because it simply can't handle high quality Anime.

h264 specs go up to 16 reference frames, and for whatever reason, not even the 5850 can play them properly. DVD's/Blueray only go up to 5.1 so that's the only guarantee ATI's can do. Following the naming convention, quite a few of my custom videos (Anime) are 8.1 to 16.1.

This isn't that big a deal for most of the guys here, you can still run them in software mode anyway, and it's not like you'll be running anything in the background on your setup. In my case, i do a lot of things on my netbook (The one with the HD3200) and the nice thing about it (when it works) is that i can run a lot of my stuff on it and the 1080p on the 2nd monitor doesn't even stutter.

Not quite sure how nVidia's side is doing in this regard, but maybe someone on the other team can tell if there are issues on them as well. I didn't really pay attention to hardware acceleration when i had my 9800 (I upgraded to a 5850 since then) until i got a netbook where video acceleration is more significant. I've been told that nVidia can't decode videos with certain widths, i'm not sure how much this affects real world use, but the ATI's reference frame shortcoming is certainly biting me in the ass.


BTW, the E3300 can probably handle 1080p software mode, so what video card you get shouldn't even matter.
 
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dorky82 said:
What is the cheapest and low powering GPU I can get for HTPC?
I just got E3300 and mobo for $30 at Frys. Already have harddrive and case just need GPU.
Will onboard 4500 play 720p+1080P files?
I want to have hdmi but if onboard GPU is powerful enough to play my files I'll have to use DVI/VGA + audio cable.
Click to expand...

You can get a Geforce 8600 really cheap used, that's more than enough for 1080p. If you want new, then a 8400 or a Geforce 210 should do for under 50 bucks. If you want HDMI, look for cards that have native HDMI as some of them come with DVI+hdmi adapter.

BTW what mb are you using? you may not need a gpu at all.
 
This article may help you, pretty much ati is the best for playback on the lower end.

At sly, something must be wrong with your setup, I can play 1080p just fine on a 4850, no problems at all, you sure its all setup right?
 
munkle said:
This article may help you, pretty much ati is the best for playback on the lower end.

At sly, something must be wrong with your setup, I can play 1080p just fine on a 4850, no problems at all, you sure its all setup right?
Click to expand...

Yep, i wouldn't be able to play any of the 1080p at all otherwise, just not all of them. The thing is, i play Anime. These are not your normal DVD/Blueray rips. They're not illegal (They aren't licensed outside Japan, and nobody's losing profit on them unless a company licenses them so nobody cares) so the Otakus do their own cleanup, color balancing, re-encoding, translating, etc. Really top notch. And to preserve all their hard work, they go batshit-insane on the encoding. Which means going beyond blueray. I've been asking around and the ATI guys in the community (Also visited the AMD/ATI forums) have no solution for it other than going brute force on the CPU whenever i encounter one that isn't supported.

The 5850 has been getting dramatic improvements in the recent driver releases but isn't quite there yet, but the 3200 (which is supposed to rival the one used in nVidia's ION) seems to have been forgotten. Which is a shame since these low power PC's need properly working video encoders even more. Anyway, most guys just play straight off a DVD/BR so it's not a priority. But something to keep in mind if you want to play a lot of anime or watch privately encoded videos. Both of which, i do a lot of.

Still personally interested on the input from the nVidia guys.


PS: A lot of the guys i've talked to that claimed their ATI's are working fine don't have (DXVA) showing up on their MPC's. So they're actually running in software.
 
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Sly said:
Yep, i wouldn't be able to play any of the 1080p at all otherwise, just not all of them. The thing is, i play Anime. These are not your normal DVD/Blueray rips. They're not illegal (They aren't licensed outside Japan, and nobody's losing profit on them unless a company licenses them so nobody cares) so the Otakus do their own cleanup, color balancing, re-encoding, translating, etc. Really top notch. And to preserve all their hard work, they go batshit-insane on the encoding. Which means going beyond blueray. I've been asking around and the ATI guys in the community (Also visited the AMD/ATI forums) have no solution for it other than going brute force on the CPU whenever i encounter one that isn't supported.

The 5850 has been getting dramatic improvements in the recent driver releases but isn't quite there yet, but the 3200 (which is supposed to rival the one used in nVidia's ION) seems to have been forgotten. Which is a shame since these low power PC's need properly working video encoders even more.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't fault it that you are trying to play something it wasn't designed to play, pretty much the max that it was meant to play was blu-ray. Now I don't know if drivers could overcome this but I don't see ati working on any video over blu-ray quality to be hardware accelerated.
 
munkle said:
I wouldn't fault it that you are trying to play something it wasn't designed to play, pretty much the max that it was meant to play was blu-ray. Now I don't know if drivers could overcome this but I don't see ati working on any video over blu-ray quality to be hardware accelerated.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i doubt it happens often enough to get ATI to move faster, but it would have been nice if they went the extra mile and fully supported h264 specs rather than just stopping at blueray.
 
PLEASE stop saying "blueray", that is not its name.

EDIT:
Also, ATI's website says "Hardware based H.264/VC-1 decoding of Blu-ray™ and HD DVDs" so expecting more from their cards is strange.
 
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dorky82 said:
What is the cheapest and low powering GPU I can get for HTPC?
I just got E3300 and mobo for $30 at Frys. Already have harddrive and case just need GPU.
Will onboard 4500 play 720p+1080P files?
I want to have hdmi but if onboard GPU is powerful enough to play my files I'll have to use DVI/VGA + audio cable.
Click to expand...

Can you tell us the brand and model of your motherboard? If the chipset is the 4500HD, it can handle video acceleration just fine.
 
palmboy5 said:
PLEASE stop saying "blueray", that is not its name.

EDIT:
Also, ATI's website says "Hardware based H.264/VC-1 decoding of Blu-ray™ and HD DVDs" so expecting more from their cards is strange.
Click to expand...

Then nVidia's video decoding is better.
 
defaultluser said:
Can you tell us the brand and model of your motherboard? If the chipset is the 4500HD, it can handle video acceleration just fine.
Click to expand...

this, not my first choice but works fine. my preference for an HTPC is a 4650 right now. a 4350 works good but lacks shader power for video enhancements. I avoid the lower end Nvidia cards for this as some of them are really stripped down. (the mid-range are pretty good though)

for 35 dollars AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131180

and why you should get the extra shader power is here (really everyone building an HTPC should read this)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/accelerate-x264-1080p-movies-over-the-gpu-guide/1
 
Sly said:
Yeah, i doubt it happens often enough to get ATI to move faster, but it would have been nice if they went the extra mile and fully supported h264 specs rather than just stopping at blueray.
Click to expand...

Something is seriously wrong with your setup. My ION in my netbook can run 1920x1080 h.264 videos on TotalMedia Theatre or Media Player Classic - Home Cinema at full fps.

Your 5850 should be able to run circles around IGPs and lower-end cards with its hardware decoding.

However, if you are just using software-based apps like VLC player, yeah, your CPU is doing everything and your GPU is doing nothing.

What software are you using for playback?
 
For out-of-spec video (i.e. a lot of anime fansubs) nVidia cards are much better - with the correct codec (CoreAVC 2.0 using CUDA) or the VDPAU API (Linux e.g. XBMCLive) they can do GPU acceleration of 16 reference frames for 1080p material.

A G210 is the minimum I'd recommend (it has advanced upscaling capabilities that the previous generation doesn't) although the GT220 is better (it can do adaptive deinterlacing for 1080i material as well).

In the HTPC I use for my anime fansubs (nearly all 720p material) I have a G210 paired with an (original 1.8GHz) E6300 CPU. I use CoreAVC and MediaPortal - I'd like to use XBMCLive, but there's still some things that I think MediaPortal does better.
 
munkle said:
Well forgive me for correctly spelling the word blue instead of using "blu" and not sounding fancy enough.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you even got blue from, the laser's color is purple and their name doesn't contain the word "blue"..
 
palmboy5 said:
I don't know where you even got blue from, the laser's color is purple and their name doesn't contain the word "blue"..
Click to expand...

You're only half right maybe you should read up on stuff before trolling.
While current optical disc technologies such as DVD, DVD±R, DVD±RW, and DVD-RAM rely on a red laser to read and write data, the new format uses a blue-violet laser instead, hence the name Blu-ray.
Click to expand...
Why would they call it "blu"-ray if blue had nothing to do with it, go read up on the internet pretty much everywhere will say its a blue/blue-violet laser.
 
Valset said:
this, not my first choice but works fine. my preference for an HTPC is a 4650 right now. a 4350 works good but lacks shader power for video enhancements. I avoid the lower end Nvidia cards for this as some of them are really stripped down. (the mid-range are pretty good though)

for 35 dollars AR http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131180

and why you should get the extra shader power is here (really everyone building an HTPC should read this)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/accelerate-x264-1080p-movies-over-the-gpu-guide/1
Click to expand...

Good card and now can be had for $28.99 AR.
 
palmboy5 said:
Why don't you read the first sentence of that same article you got the quote from?
http://www.blu-ray.com/info/

If you're going to ignore it, its only fair I can ignore what you quoted as well.
Click to expand...

Why don't you read your question, you asked where I got blue from since it doesn't use a blue laser, yet it actually does, which is why I quoted that, I never said the correct way was "blue-ray" but that I added blue because it does use a blue laser, you need to learn to read.
 
Look, all I want is to not be bombarded with the wrong spelling, and I don't understand why anyone bothered to respond DEFENDING the wrong spelling. I guess people do care, eh, herfalerf? Forgive me for only checking wikipedia at the time, which says
While this laser color is called "blue," it is actually violet (purple) to the eye, and is very close to ultraviolet ("blacklight").
Click to expand...
 
palmboy5 said:
Look, all I want is to not be bombarded with the wrong spelling, and I don't understand why anyone bothered to respond DEFENDING the wrong spelling. I guess people do care, eh, herfalerf? Forgive me for only checking wikipedia at the time, which says
Click to expand...

Well if that's all you want than your name is not grammatically correct either needs a capital P. Look at yourself before bashing others.
 
palmboy5 said:
Look, all I want is to not be bombarded with the wrong spelling, and I don't understand why anyone bothered to respond DEFENDING the wrong spelling. I guess people do care, eh, herfalerf? Forgive me for only checking wikipedia at the time, which says
Click to expand...

:eek:
 
I didn't bash anyone, I said "PLEASE" stop. It was a damn request but you guys have to be so offended by it.
 
Red Falcon said:
Something is seriously wrong with your setup. My ION in my netbook can run 1920x1080 h.264 videos on TotalMedia Theatre or Media Player Classic - Home Cinema at full fps.

Your 5850 should be able to run circles around IGPs and lower-end cards with its hardware decoding.

However, if you are just using software-based apps like VLC player, yeah, your CPU is doing everything and your GPU is doing nothing.

What software are you using for playback?
Click to expand...

Yep, the 5850 plays more videos correctly than the 3200 but still not all of them. I watch out of spec videos a lot so i run into these types of videos more often. I'm likely biased since i'm specifically searching for ATI solutions, but nVidia problems are absent in the places i end up in during my searches. Event the imouto site specifically says that ATI cards aren't gonna be able to work 100% before the DXVA tutorial.

I'm using Media Player Classic x64 using the Microsoft DTV-DVD filter. When i run into a video that isn't supported, i switch to CoreAVC. I've tried other filters too, but pretty much if the video pixelates in one of them, it'll happen on all DXVA filters.. I actually turned off DXVA on my 5850 since the CPU can crunch through them easily anyway and i don't want to keep switching filters for no perceivable benefit. The AMD Congo Platform (AMD's answer to ION) is the one with major problems since it doesn't have an adequate CPU to fall back on.

Again tho, if you're just gonna be playing off DVD/BR's (I didn't say blueray:D), it's probably not gonna matter.
 
@magao
Have you watched the new Advent Children from niizk? Over 11Gigs and "ref=16" so i'm not even gonna bother getting that :D

Hmm.. Media Portal.. i'm gonna have to google that.
 
Sly said:
Yep, the 5850 plays more videos correctly than the 3200 but still not all of them. I watch out of spec videos a lot so i run into these types of videos more often. I'm likely biased since i'm specifically searching for ATI solutions, but nVidia problems are absent in the places i end up in during my searches. Event the imouto site specifically says that ATI cards aren't gonna be able to work 100% before the DXVA tutorial.

I'm using Media Player Classic x64 using the Microsoft DTV-DVD filter. When i run into a video that isn't supported, i switch to CoreAVC. I've tried other filters too, but pretty much if the video pixelates in one of them, it'll happen on all DXVA filters.. I actually turned off DXVA on my 5850 since the CPU can crunch through them easily anyway and i don't want to keep switching filters for no perceivable benefit. The AMD Congo Platform (AMD's answer to ION) is the one with major problems since it doesn't have an adequate CPU to fall back on.

Again tho, if you're just gonna be playing off DVD/BR's (I didn't say blueray:D), it's probably not gonna matter.
Click to expand...

I watch a lot of anime too, but all of it is sub-720p, so when the GPU is decoding, it is only using about 20% of it's VPU. 720p videos take about 30-45% of the VPU, and 1080p is 60-80% of the VPU.

When you watch anime, what res is the video and how much of your VPU is it eating up?
 
Red Falcon said:
I watch a lot of anime too, but all of it is sub-720p, so when the GPU is decoding, it is only using about 20% of it's VPU. 720p videos take about 30-45% of the VPU, and 1080p is 60-80% of the VPU.

When you watch anime, what res is the video and how much of your VPU is it eating up?
Click to expand...

Not really sure how you're supposed to measure VPU, there's no display for it on the netbooks catalyst panel. I can tell you how much CPU MPC uses tho, around 9% (usually in the single digits) on DXVA regardless if it's 1080p or 720p (you can only watch 1080p on DXVA). On CoreAVC it runs on 17-30+% (Non-HD). In all other software filters it goes past 50%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nok3B_fCU6w

You've probably seen it already in the mobile section before, but there's been no change until today. I actually have a directory of sample anime episodes that i test out everytime a new driver comes out.

Again, this is for a low power device where you really need the GPU. The one with the 5850 has DXVA disabled now since the CPU can handle it and i didn't want to keep switching between dxva and software when i'm watching Anime. If you're on a low end PC/laptop (In our case, Reds ION vs my Congo) and the video isn't running on DXVA, you'll know. I don't know how the 4xxx series performs, i can only vouch for the 5xxx and the 3xxx. But if the top end and the low end both has problems, the in betweens probably has them too.
 
Sly said:
Not really sure how you're supposed to measure VPU, there's no display for it on the netbooks catalyst panel. I can tell you how much CPU MPC uses tho, around 9% (usually in the single digits) on DXVA regardless if it's 1080p or 720p (you can only watch 1080p on DXVA). On CoreAVC it runs on 17-30+% (Non-HD). In all other software filters it goes past 50%.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nok3B_fCU6w

You've probably seen it already in the mobile section before, but there's been no change until today. I actually have a directory of sample anime episodes that i test out everytime a new driver comes out.

Again, this is for a low power device where you really need the GPU. The one with the 5850 has DXVA disabled now since the CPU can handle it and i didn't want to keep switching between dxva and software when i'm watching Anime. If you're on a low end PC/laptop (In our case, Reds ION vs my Congo) and the video isn't running on DXVA, you'll know. I don't know how the 4xxx series performs, i can only vouch for the 5xxx and the 3xxx. But if the top end and the low end both has problems, the in betweens probably has them too.
Click to expand...

Yes you can measure the VPU, go here: http://blog.orbmu2k.de/
 
Thanks, i downloaded the gadget. Unfortunately there's no checkbox for the VPU. The 3200 GPU says either around 50-60% for 720p or 100% for 1080p. When i'm on the desktop it's at 7%.

The thing is, even when running in software mode, it still hits 50% so i don't think the GPU meter is accurate for video decoding.
 
Sly said:
Thanks, i downloaded the gadget. Unfortunately there's no checkbox for the VPU. The 3200 GPU says either around 50-60% for 720p or 100% for 1080p. When i'm on the desktop it's at 7%.

The thing is, even when running in software mode, it still hits 50% so i don't think the GPU meter is accurate for video decoding.
Click to expand...

Oh, actually, I haven't tried the ATI/AMD gadget, only the one for NVIDIA.

The NVIDIA gadget shows VPU and GPU usage as two separate meters in one gadget and works accuritely. I can't say for sure on the ATI gadget though as I don't really use ATI cards that much, not b/c they are bad but b/c I need specific features on NVIDIA GPUs.

I hope you can get it worked out though.

Have you tried converting any of your existing files to a different format/file container with a program like Adobe Premiere Pro? Maybe a different format would fix the problem.
 
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